Phone A Friend

2.2k · December 24, 2004

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

Im not talking about the ocassional asking for a hint. What Im referring too are those who call everyone they can to either get the answers to a puzzle cache, or start beggin people just to tell them where the final is on a multi-cache.

December 24, 2004

I guess you could call it cheating if this is how you do all of your caching!

If that is the way you are going to do this why do it at all? It totally defeats the purpose of why you are doing this in the first place!!

I say if you are going to "phone a friend" all the time then you better leave something really nice for the next cacher to find!!

My 2 cents <_<

Edited December 24, 2004 by campermama

December 24, 2004

i suppose it depends. I have a few caches that takes a long hike to get to, so if someone called me I wouldn't really mind. I would hate to hike 5 miles only to get a DNF. If's it's a drive by cache, I think I'd tell them to cop on.

24.7k · December 24, 2004

Did the cache page say "Don't phone your friends?"

It's called using your resources.

December 24, 2004

Did they skip stages of the multi or can they not find the final?

If they sincerely need help because they've been there 40 minutes and still turn up empty handed then fine. But if they are skipping stages and going straight to the final thats something else

December 24, 2004

I've seen this as a growing trend and it's unfortunate. As a cache owner, it would be nice to control how information is given about finding my cache. There can obviously be a dilution to the challenge you created.

December 24, 2004

I myself have been caught in the rain at a cache, a multi, phoned a friend for help finding the final. I was drenched, I had completed the other stages, but it was still a .4 walk to the car and this was already my second attempt.

It was a riot and a laugh to look back on but I don't regret the phone call at all.

2.2k · December 24, 2004

I have a friend who recently hid a cache in a rather tight cave and requires all finders to post a picture of themselves in the cave with a prominent landmark in the background.

It really irked the local cheaters who couldnt send their friend in to get it for them <_< .

Edited December 24, 2004 by WH

22k · December 24, 2004

Nevermind

Edited December 24, 2004 by BlueDeuce

1.6k · December 24, 2004

We did a multi that had you looking for small brass tags cleverly hidden with the last 3 digits of the co-ords to the next container on them (5 coins, 5 containers). The first attempt at the final coin was cut short by time and an imment storm. The next attempt had us searching every conceivable location that even loosely matched the clue provided for 2 hours. We even tried using an external antenna to get a better signal with the tree cover, since our GPS kept pointing into a lake.

We decided to use the 'phone a friend' option. We got in the car and drove back to the park office and had one of the owners (park staffer) paged to ask for help. Turns out that sometimes you really should trust your GPS. I suppose we'd have had a funny story to tell if we'd been wrong and gone swimming, but it would have sucked to get wet for nothing<g>

Wulf

2k · December 25, 2004

What's the prize if you don't cheat?

6.5k · December 25, 2004

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

Im not talking about the ocassional asking for a hint. What Im referring too are those who call everyone they can to either get the answers to a puzzle cache, or start beggin people just to tell them where the final is on a multi-cache.

People get enjoyment out of caching for different reasons. Not that I understand everyone's reasoning, but if they're having fun and not messing things up for other people I probably wouldn't care.

I think it would be somewhat annoying to set up a hard multi and have someone short cut to the end, but thats also part of the challenge. Try it to make it as much short cut proof as possiable, while sneaky minded cachers try to get around it.

If you want to make people do it all themselves, try putting that in the description. But realize some won't be able to pass all parts, or phone a freind, or work in a team, or any number of things that might be "cheating".

20.7k · December 25, 2004

This practice used to bug me a little, but then I realized that it is no different than caching in a group. If you aren't the one who finds the box, you still get to sign the log, right?

December 25, 2004

The whole idea of "cheating" is an interesting one. A lot of caches are just excuses to get out into the woods or a nice park or some other off-the-beaten-track kind of place. (Think how many logs start off with "I never even knew this park (pond/forest/monument/nuclear missile silo) existed....") It's one of the things I find so attractive about GCing. Under these conditions, the find is almost incidental to the experience. Phone a friend? Go ahead. This is about fun, not mindless adherence to someone else's idea of how the game is played.

(For people who want to rack up big numbers of finds, I suggest benchmarks as a faster way to pad a huge meaningless number. )

There's only one area of geocaching that I really think of as cheating, and that's "First-to-Find." FTF has a real status as far as I'm concerned, although I don't actually have any FTFs. (I don't really seek them, just respect them. )

Is it possible to cheat on FTF? How would a person do such a thing? Well, there may actually be a way. I'm not saying anyone really does this, but it might be theoretically possible to gain access to reviewer notes on caches submitted for approval. The notes, of course, contain all the details, like final coords on multi-caches and things like that. An unscrupulous GCer could actually find a cache before it's officially published, sign the log and casually wait for the cache to be made public when he can log his FTF. And of course, the only way this would be worth doing is if you could do it a lot, so you can rack up lots of FTFs.

That would be cheating. Real cheating. Barry Bonds cheating. Rosie Ruiz cheating. "I'd-like-to-kick-your-a**" cheating.

Of course, no one has ever done this to my knowledge, but it IS possible.

Interesting, no?

9.8k · December 26, 2004

Well, there are times when you can't get a decent GPS signal to save your life or the coordinates are more than 40 feet off or the dang micro is just hidden too well. I don't like to log DNFs (tho I have logged plenty). So if I see in the logs that someone I know has found the cache I cannot find, I don't hesitate to call them for help. If that's cheating, so be it. I don't like to walk for several miles to log a DNF when I don't have to. Of course I always note in my cache logs that I had help/called so in so/whatever.

Edited December 26, 2004 by AtlantaGal

December 26, 2004

Makes me wonder why bother with geocaching? Just call a friend and ask if they know any neat places to go. No messing with approvals or damp logs or poison ivy or mud. Hey, I just found a nice new restaurant. Give me a call and I'll tell you where it is. I'll even let you use the number 81919 to describe your experience. It's prime, you know. :unsure:

7.2k · December 26, 2004

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

Im not talking about the ocassional asking for a hint. What Im referring too are those who call everyone they can to either get the answers to a puzzle cache, or start beggin people just to tell them where the final is on a multi-cache.

Of course it is. Shame on them and shame on those who give the spoilers.

Note: this refers to only those who the OP is refering to. This does not apply to the instances where you've at least given it a really good try, looking for one with multiple DNFs, or whole host of other situations.

It's one thing to get help from a teammate who doesn't know where it is--they are working right along side you to find the cache--but being told by the owner or a previous finder where it is, is quite another.

Providing solutions is little different than telling others the twist of a good movie. Asking for solutions is little different than flipping to the end of a book. Both are concepts that I simply don't understand.

Folks to provide and use spoilers are the same kind of person who uses the God Mode to defeat a game. Why? The only thing I can think of is they lack the skills to do it on their own.

December 12, 2005

Well, there are times when you can't get a decent GPS signal to save your life or the coordinates are more than 40 feet off or the dang micro is just hidden too well. I don't like to log DNFs (tho I have logged plenty). So if I see in the logs that someone I know has found the cache I cannot find, I don't hesitate to call them for help. If that's cheating, so be it. I don't like to walk for several miles to log a DNF when I don't have to. Of course I always note in my cache logs that I had help/called so in so/whatever.

I think if everyone would make the same note it would alleviate some of the ill feelings.

December 12, 2005

I see nothing wrong with calling to get some help, after all thats what your fellow Geocachers are there for...... to help you! As for calling before trying, and you get to the point of being lazy and not even trying that is not good.

Just my 0.02

December 12, 2005

Thats the problem I have with it. Had what I am sure was a case of that on one of my caches lately. In the interest of keeping the peace I said nothing about it, but I highly doubt the cacher in question just walked right up and found this particular cache which was how the log read.

5.3k · December 12, 2005

I can tell when one to the super high number cachers is in my area, My cell phone rings Now if I having trouble finding on of his/her caches, there phone may ring also

December 12, 2005

I find is a find. Stumbling across a cache, finding a cache without a GPSr, phone a friend, is not cheating. Log the find. I will state in my log that I called so and so for assistance.

There is one thing I will not do, if aiding someone hiding a cache, I will be the FTF. I will wait until it's found a few times and then go a log it.

2.3k · December 12, 2005

There is one thing I will not do, if aiding someone hiding a cache, I will be the FTF. I will wait until it's found a few times and then go a log it.

How can you log it as a found it, if you helped hide it? That practice has always puzzled me... We don't log smilies on the caches we hide.

December 12, 2005

What's the prize if you don't cheat?

Self-respect.

December 12, 2005

I'm terrible at finding caches. I can get to the coordinates just fine, but sometimes putting my hands on the actual box and logbook eludes me. Might be my terrible eyesight, or maybe it's my great physical stature makes it hard for me to get down under the branches to see what's under there. It might be some kind of mental block or just that I can't see past my own "Hugh Jazz," I don't know.

Anyway, when I lived in Austin I knew I could count on Moosiegirl's "Geocaching Hotline." Moosigirl had found every cache within about 500 miles, and had a photographic memory of each one. I didn't have to call it often, but I knew if I spent about 45 minutes bushwhacking and came up emptyhanded I could always make that call.

Now that I live in Wichita, a place where Moosiegirl has not yet cached, I find I miss the "Geocaching Hotline." I wish she'd come up here and find all 250 of our caches, it wouldn't take her long, maybe an afternoon or two.

It's not cheating to ask a friend for help. What's cheating is when someone posts the coords to all the puzzle caches online, and the folks who download those coordinates and use them.

-mark

aka hugh jazz, aka lowracer.

December 12, 2005

I guess "phone a friend" wasn't the most accurate term to use. The issue I am having is when the phone a friend happens prior to the individual even looking for the cache. I guess this, like everything else, is a matter of perspective.

December 12, 2005

Personally, I dont think its cheating (unless you do this on every cache you find). I have had several occasions where I have had to 'phone a friend' to be able to find the cache. I only did this after several visits to the site of the cache though.

For example: Big Bang. I visited this site almost 5 times before I phoned a previous hider. Even then, with this type of hide, it was very hard to get the cache. So, under the right circumstances, no I dont think its cheating.

edit: oops! Double post

Edited December 12, 2005 by altosaxplayer

December 12, 2005

Personally, I dont think its cheating (unless you do this on every cache you find). I have had several occasions where I have had to 'phone a friend' to be able to find the cache. I only did this after several visits to the site of the cache though.

For example: Big Bang. I visited this site almost 5 times before I phoned a previous hider. Even then, with this type of hide, it was very hard to get the cache. So, under the right circumstances, no I dont think its cheating.

December 12, 2005

Here's the way I look at It.All clues should be given by the Cache owner himself.

If you can't find it, Log a DNF and contact the owner.

I'm Sure most owners would be glad to give you a nudge in the right direction.

Why I even contacted a Cacher who logged 3 or 4 Dnf's on one of my Caches after seeing the distance he traveled to find it.

What I don't like is the person who contacts you and Says "I have been out there three times and cant find it", and never logged a DNF.

I can see not logging a dnf for many reasons,but it would be nice for an owner to know who is having trouble.

December 12, 2005

I've never used the "phone a friend" lifeline.

Yeah sure, I'm just a newbie, so I don't have any other cachers to call.

What I have been doing, is to call a good friend up in Minnisota to give her a play by play of my search efforts. I get to pass the time with her, and vent a lil about where the cache should be.

I do believe she has as much fun(or more) as I do when I search with her in my ear.

December 12, 2005

When I receive a 'dnf' for one of my caches I read the log. If it says "I have tried x number of times." I send the cacher some very helpful hints. I also look at the cachers profile and tailor the hints based on how many finds they have.

Hawk

Team RedHawk

December 12, 2005

Can I say, first of all, I'm very surprised to see this topic revived after almost a year of inactivity!

My real point:

There's a multi near me--well, "near me" is not accurate. It takes a good hour to walk in to the general area--called Hale to the Chiefs, that I have tried to find at least six times. It's rated a 4.5 for difficulty. I have even tried it with one of the best GC bird-dogs I know, Bigrock95. He could find a cache three months after it's been archived. Anyway, this thing has eluded both of us, and it's a lot of work just to get to the spot, before you even start to look.

After all this time, this cache has dropped right off my Geocaching "fun-o-meter." If I knew anyone who had found it, I'd call them just to get the stupid thing off my list.

December 13, 2005

:anitongue: geocheaters shame on you .if you do one of my caches and log a DNF ill be glad to give you a hint if you would like if you want to call a friend to get a hint after you have looked for awhile and not found it i think thats ok also But as for sitting down and trading notes on the whereabouts of caches or calling a friend before hand as to the whereabouts or cache container discription before even going out to do them well i think thats geocheating but then again thats just my opinion , never mind.

life is the prize and then you die

Edited December 13, 2005 by 2trax

December 13, 2005

Umm, if they 'phoned a friend', on tv, for a MILLION DOLLARS,

how bad is it, to do it for a box full of dollar store trinkets?

I've seen hiders tell seekers, at events, EXACTLY how to find their cache.

Anything goes in this activity. A puzzle cache may be hard for one, but childs play for another. A hint is allowed on the web page, so another hint is not outside of the rules. Hell some 'hints' are THE answer.

December 13, 2005

If you spen a good HOUR looking for a cache, then a phone call for a HINT would acceptable. But to spend 5 min looking and call "NOJOY", then you better find another hobbie that has imediate results.....

December 13, 2005

I have yet to actually phone anyone, but I've been the phonee a couple of times, and it doesn't bother me much. People will play however they feel is right for them. I don't spend much time worrying about it.

December 13, 2005

I have used call a friend, once. We were a couple of hours from home and working a multi. This was 5 individual caches that would lead you to the final cache. We found all 5 legs on Fri and Sat. Sunday we checked out of the motel, ate breakfast and headed for the last cache location. We looked high and we looked low and we found nothing. We tried off a backroad and we tried on the Interstate! We tried for several hours. Finally, stopping to get something to eat and realizing that we really needed to head home, we broke down and called a friend. We were in the correct area to start with and were able to grab the cache within minutes feeling a bit stupid. As we won't be caching up that way until next summer, I am thankful that we had a friend to call. Would I do this all the time? No! We had a multi locally that took us a couple of months to find. It's no big deal if it's here. It is when it's not.

Terri

December 13, 2005

Me tinks it ok as a last resort, not a first one. :anitongue:

9.4k · December 13, 2005

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

At this point I've been hiring contractors to find the caches for me. I pay based on the difficulty and terrain ratings, and a bit extra for the cardboard cutout of me for the occasional geocaching photo. After finding each cache they call me and write whatever I tell them to. The signature stamp makes it look all official.

It works out really well since each of the contractors pretend to be me which keeps a mystique as to who I really am.

So yes. I'm a big poopy head cheater.

3.8k · December 13, 2005

The shame of it!

1.3k · December 13, 2005

I don't have any friends to phone.

December 13, 2005

I wish I could afford a contractor!

3.8k · December 13, 2005

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

At this point I've been hiring contractors to find the caches for me. I pay based on the difficulty and terrain ratings, and a bit extra for the cardboard cutout of me for the occasional geocaching photo. After finding each cache they call me and write whatever I tell them to. The signature stamp makes it look all official.

It works out really well since each of the contractors pretend to be me which keeps a mystique as to who I really am.

So yes. I'm a big poopy head cheater.

One question. Do your contactors log your DNFs, too? If they don't, now that would be shameful.

3.9k · December 13, 2005

Are the people who use their cell phones to call for help from either previous finders or the cache owners themsleves cheaters?

At this point I've been hiring contractors to find the caches for me. I pay based on the difficulty and terrain ratings, and a bit extra for the cardboard cutout of me for the occasional geocaching photo. After finding each cache they call me and write whatever I tell them to. The signature stamp makes it look all official.

It works out really well since each of the contractors pretend to be me which keeps a mystique as to who I really am.

So yes. I'm a big poopy head cheater.

Do they get a bonus for claiming multiple finds on the same cache?

If they decide to cache on thier own, can they go back and log these caches? Or do they need to go back and revisit the locations?

Do they get extra pay for night caches?

December 13, 2005

... the cardboard cutout of me for the occasional geocaching photo.

FINALLY, an item for sale in Groundspeak, that I would pay overnight shipping for.

Edited December 13, 2005 by CraigInCT

December 13, 2005

Licensed contractor in Michigan seeks Geocacher . Experience with projection, puzzles and multicaches. Ample room in truck to carry cardboard cutout 24/7 and experienced with digital photograpy. Some amateur photoshop skills. Discount terms. Insured. Statewide service. Low downpayments. References available upon request.

3.1k · December 13, 2005

IMHO There is no big deal with getting some hints on a cache or 2. We have been called and emailed on some of our harder caches, we gave hints no problem.

We found one cache that had a padlock on it, but no one knew that until you got to the cache. It had several ?'s on the side of the box and the answers were the combo of the lock. We knew the answers to all but one, we phoned a friend for the answer.

We cache and go to a theme park 150 miles away from home about every other month, and there are 2 caches we CAN NOT find down there, we DNF and emailed the owner, their response, other people find them and micros are supposed to be hard, no help. We wish we had a phone a friend down there to help us out.

When people DNF our cache we give them a hint. One cache we put out to be very hard on purpose, so I expect people to get help on that one, but they should write it in the log.

December 13, 2005

I don't have the life line to use. Althought there's one I need to spend more time on trying to find. It's got me stumped

8k · December 13, 2005

When people DNF our cache we give them a hint.

I hate it when cache owners or previous finders send me a hint when I log a DNF. If I want a hint, I'll ask for one - or phone a friend

December 14, 2005

That’s why they are called friends, and no its not cheating will use everything at my disposal to find a cache even a back-ho if needed, but never needed one of those yet, the back-ho that is … .. JOE

Phone A Friend

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