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N.j. To Shut Ringwood Park Trail Over Toxins


lostinjersey

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from the bergen record, following several weeks of artivcles about complaints by the RMP and others about paint iand sludge in their backyards...

 

figured yaw'lld wanna know. also I'm wondering if any micros are in the affected area...

 

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The state moved Friday to close a Ringwood State Park hiking trail where recent soil and water samples show dangerous amounts of toxins, 10 years after the Ford Motor Co. supposedly cleaned out industrial waste it had dumped in the former mining area.

 

"We will likely be posting trail closure signs in the coming days," said Bradley M. Campbell, the head of the state Department of Environmental Protection. Based on the latest testing of property declared clean by the federal Environmental Protection Agency in 1994, he said, "It is now very clear that Ford and the EPA missed a significant area of contamination during the first cleanup. As for how large that area is, we will find out."

 

The trail is at the end of Peters Mine Road, near where about 500 members of the Ramapough Mountain Indian community reside. For years, they have complained of ailments they believe are caused by toxins. Those ailments include abnormally high cancer rates, skin rashes, asthma and neurological problems among their children.

 

Government investigations are under way into both the health problems and the extent of remaining pollution, but no formal link has been established between the two.

 

Much of the leftover waste lies outside the park. But the latest investigation found toxins a quarter of a mile into a part of the parkland that the state acquired after Ford dumped the material there between 1967 and 1974.

 

A set of soil and water samples taken in the state park by a non-profit group, Edison Wetlands Associates, and released Thursday found lead readings nearly 100 times greater than levels considered safe. Arsenic readings were also well above safe levels, and a trace of cancer-causing PCBs was found in the bank of a stream that feeds into the Wanaque Reservoir about a mile away.

 

Campbell spoke with staff at the Wanaque Reservoir on Friday and was assured that the water quality faced no immediate threat. In the past, trace amounts of PCBs have shown up in stream samples by staff of the reservoir, which supplies drinking water to 2 million people. Those levels have not been considered dangerous. However, officials are concerned that unless the site is clean, toxins could eventually migrate downstream and foul the water.

 

Ford, already facing EPA mandates for a renewed cleanup, has said that it would comply with all government edicts. Campbell said that he would "order" the company to undertake another cleanup if that proved necessary.

 

"Currently, we are looking to see whether we will need to take direct action," Campbell said.

 

The hiking trail was deserted Friday afternoon, except for two patrolling rangers from the state Division of Parks and Forestry. No signs were yet posted to keep out or advising residents that there was any danger.

 

Residents who live near the entrance to the park say the trail hasn't been used much, probably because Peters Mine Road is fairly desolate. People live in old houses and close to the land - with chickens and stray dogs running about freely. Junk is strewn about inside the park - old furniture, beer bottles and other items.

 

One resident of Peters Mine Road who would identify himself only as Jack recalled the days in the late 1960s when Ford dumped tons of paint in the field just across the street from his house. That field is overgrown with brush, but Jack wondered just how much toxin remains in the soil.

 

"There were days when they were dumping so much paint that you couldn't breathe," he said. "People complained, but nothing was done about it."

 

Jack is 45 years old and says he has had three strokes. He said his sister, who grew up on Peters Mine Road, died of cancer when she was 14. Now his grandson lives in the house with him, and the boy, he said, has asthma and a constant rash.

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The only one directly effected is my The IronMan cache. Since it can be accessed from other directions, I'm gonna leave it active and put a note on the page.

 

They're serious about cleanup and its supposed to start this Wednesday. Not sure how long it will take. I guess it depends on the extent of comtamination. The area was previously cleaned up and given a clean bill of health, but apparently they missed some things <_< .

 

A temporary re-route of the trail may be in the works.

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This thing is a real "Love Canal" situation. Their idea of cleanup in the early days was to bulldoze the toxic waste into the mine shafts. Reportedly, in bulldozing the waste into the shafts, a bulldozer fell in and they left that too. Of course, these shafts are flooded, filled with a toxic brew and leaching out into the water table. A superficial surface cleanup is really going to do nothing. This is a Pandoras Box that they will never be able to close once it opens. I'm not surprised the local residents have health problems, I just wonder what impact it has on the reservoir.

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This thing is a real "Love Canal" situation. Their idea of cleanup in the early days was to bulldoze the toxic waste into the mine shafts. Reportedly, in bulldozing the waste into the shafts, a bulldozer fell in and they left that too. Of course, these shafts are flooded, filled with a toxic brew and leaching out into the water table. A superficial surface cleanup is really going to do nothing. This is a Pandoras Box that they will never be able to close once it opens. I'm not surprised the local residents have health problems, I just wonder what impact it has on the reservoir.

Have faith in us environmental folks Jonboy. Even though NJDEP is starting the investigation, it won 't be long before it is handed over to professional engineers. The EPA and Ford (well, Fords consultants really) had said the area was clean. Both of those groups will be back pretty darn quick I bet. They will not be permitted to conduct a surficial cleaning. This will be a long and complicated investigation. But, they will find and cleanup the contaminants.

 

By the way, that's what they are lead and arsenic are naturally occuring elements that frequently are found in the rocks of the area. Toxin is a little harsh for natural mineral deposits don't you think? It works great if you want publicity and repeat readers. PCBs could be called toxins but they were only found at TRACE levels. Trace levels are actually below regulatory thresholds for activity. (I.E. nothing needs to be done about them)

 

We environmental workers have cleaned them up before, and we will do it again. Yes it is sad, but it is a reality of our industrial past. We have dumped on our land. We have destroyed areas we can't even remember. We will continue to run into our past for a long long long time.

 

I happen to be in the process of buying a house in Ringwood. We have a well at the house. This won't stop us. I am not scared, because I have done my research and the house is not near the affected areas of town.

 

Regarding the story:

 

"lead readings nearly 100 times greater than levels considered safe" is this referring to soil or graoundwater samples? 100 times the limit is soil is not that big a deal if the soil isn't washing or leaching to a drinking water supply

 

"Arsenic readings were also well above safe levels," NJDEP used the EPA limit of 20 Parts per million for the arsenic soil standard. Geologic survey's of NJ have shown natural background levels of arsenic exceeding 20 PPM in all but the shore counties.

 

"and a trace of cancer-causing PCBs was found in the bank of a stream that feeds into the Wanaque Reservoir about a mile away." Yes, this would be cause for concern if it was anything but trace. Trace means that it was below NJDEP limits, but greater than 0. I notice the complete lack standards or data from the story. I have seen this before from reporters looking for a story. (I know because I have been questioned about cleanup project I have been working on).

 

This is highly inflamatory reporting designed to keep us reading. I am not saying that there is no threat. I am saying that we don't need to over react just yet. I would like to see the reporter publish the actual data side by side with the NJDEP cleanup criteria and water quality standards. Show the people the whole truth and let us make an informed decision.

 

The Ramapough indians have been trying to get attention for a long time. If they can get publicity that they live on toxic land then they are one step closer to getting their own land... lets call it a "reservation". Then, they can just open up the Stag Hill casino and everyone is happy right?

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There can be little doubt that Ford planned all along to use the mine shafts as a repository for their paint sludge and other industrial waste, why else would they bring it to the site? The residual amounts that were left on the surface are nothing compared to the amounts of waste that remain in the shafts. There was never much public awareness of this action, just horrified whispering amongst NJ State employees, they knew that to speak out publicly about this issue would cost them their jobs. I understand that the State of New Jersey was desperate to keep the Mahwah plant operating, and was willing to turn a blind eye to this kind of operation if it would keep the Ford plant open. We can quibble about whether this waste should be called Toxic waste, low level toxic waste, trace amounts of carcinogenic compounds or just sludge, but no one thinks it should be upstream of one of the major reservoirs in New Jersey.

 

I think that absent the reporting by local investigative journalists, there would be little public awareness, and hence, no pressure to take action, and they are doing a great public service. Of course, some of their facts may be incorrect, but the gist of the story cannot be denied. Naturally it irks government officials to come under the spotlight of public scrutiny, but this is how democracy is supposed to work. In my experience, most of the career environmental professionals are very conscientious and try to act in the public interest, but those at the top levels are political appointees who are operating on quite different agendas. I am not naive enough to believe that science and public health will always take pecedence over political and fiscal considerations.

 

As far as the Ramapo Indians, I think this is the old story of dumping waste in areas where the populace is too poor, uninformed and disorganised to offer any effective resistance. To start talking about their efforts to get a casino is just tossing out a red herring to deflect attention from the real issue.

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jonboy is right on.

all due respect to the poster who has firsthand knowledge of these cleanups, i have serious reservations about taking data from the state of new jersey or their corporate pals. we all know dadgum well that many sites have been tested and cleaned up by corporations that declared the problem solved and had their results rubberstamped by the state. look at issues in jersey city and hoboken regarding the waterfront improvements. i worked on those projects, i know what happens when the state trusts corporations and contractors to handle problems they

created.

 

" The EPA and Ford (well, Fords consultants really) had said the area was clean. Both of those groups will be back pretty darn quick I bet." i bet not. ford did this in the 60's and 70's because it was cheap and easy. they will do the same now. what interest does ford have in appeasing nj at this point when they have less presence now than they did then. will ford willingly rush into a situation where they may be complicit in contaminating a major water reservoir? and we are assuming that the epa will rush to get involved now that we have a president and policy makers have repeatedly shown that they couldn't care less about the enviroment and enviromental protection. it wouldn't surprise me if the ultimate decision is that the site is safe enough to put a fence around and label it "problem solved"

 

chances are the bulk of the costs will go to nj taxpayers, the cleanup contractor will get paid and ford will do what they can to whitewash and get out asap.

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That sounds like a quick fix "solution", calculated more to kill this story, counting on the short attention span of the public and the press to allow this story to pass.

 

I also have seen the same hazardous waste site declared clean many times. Nuclear Lake, the site of a former Plutonium processing plant was purchased by the Reagan Administration NPS as part of the Appalachian traill corridor in Dutchess County for $800,000. Subsequently, taxpayers paid almost $4,000,000 in repeated clean ups, each time the Nuclear Regulatory Commission would pronounce the site "clean" and outside groups would come in and identify more nuclear hotspots.

 

Cleaning up the residual waste on the surface is the easy part, what about the waste underground and in the water table? Just because it hasn't leached out as far as the reservoir yet, doesn't mean it can't or won't. And if it gets to that point, the opportunity for remediation will have passed.

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Trace levels are actually below regulatory thresholds for activity

 

Which is way above the healthy levels that humans should be near... we keep lowering the standards to accommodate more yuck! :angry:

 

EPA website:

Short-term: EPA has found PCBs to potentially cause the following health effects when people are exposed to it at levels above the MCL for relatively short periods of time: acne-like eruptions and pigmentation of the skin; hearing and vision problems; spasms.

 

Long-term: PCBs has the potential to cause the following effects from a lifetime exposure at levels above the MCL: effects similar to acute poisonings; irritation of nose, throat and gastrointestinal tracts; changes in liver function; cancer.

 

Drinking Water Standards:

Mclg: 0.0 ppm

 

In other words, even trace amounts can cause significant health effects. These chemicals are extremely dangerous and should never been treated lightly.

Edited by avroair
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I apologize for not responding to these posts today. My corporate IT department does not like my time on the forums apparently and so have locked me out of them.

 

Just to clarify a few points

 

1. I do not work for a government agency. I work for a private consulting/engineering agency who does work for both the government and large private commercial clients. As far as the government officials go, I have seen both good and bad. There are many hard working and conscientious individuals in the government. Then there are some real losers.

 

2. Drinking water standards and groundwater standards are not always the same thing. Yes, there are wells in the area. For that reason, there will be a great deal of attention paid to the subsurface conditions. Despite what Jonboy seems to be alluding to, there are methods for extracting and treating groundwater, as well as some methods for treating it in place. Contamination in the reservoir would be bad, but again, it could be treated.

 

3. Avroair went and did the research on PCBs he has published the EPA numbers. That is terrific. I would just like to see the numbers that the lab reported. I would like to compare the numbers and see if they are comparable. The NJDEP set the Impact to Groundwater Standard for PCBs at 50 parts per million in soil. That means that in order for the PCBs to have a negative impact on the groundwater below the contaminated soils, NJDEP has found that concentrations of 50 or greater are needed. PCBs by nature are extremely sticky and hard to get out of the soil, therefore a high concentration is needed before they leach out. The article fails to mention if the PCBs were detected in the water or soils. As you can see, it makes a huge difference. The levels for residential soils are 0.49 parts per million and the non-residential soils are 2 parts per million. These levels are based on various studies such as those done by the national institute of occupational safety and health, the centers for disease control, the EPA, and the department of health. The levels are set based on case studies and

 

Arsenic levels are set at 20 parts per million in both residential and non-residential properties. No Impact to groundwater standard has been set. DEP’s position is that each situation will be evaluated on a case by case basis.

 

Lead is similarly evaluated on a case by case basis for impact to groundwater. Residential soil standards are 400 parts per million and non residential is 600 parts per million.

 

4. Yes, Ford probably did plan on using the mine shafts for disposal. Since their stuff is there, it is probably equally likely that they had a hand in getting it there. Did they break the law? Who cares? The fact of the matter is that it is there. As far as a NJDEP cover-up, I would love to think that DEP was smart enough to pull that one off. Having talked with enough of them to form an opinion, I think that most likely the whole process was overlooked. Again, that is if they even broke laws. Environmental regulation is relatively new. The US environmental protection act wasn’t enacted until 1969. Did the dumping occur before or after that date? RCRA (the resource conservation and recovery act) was enacted later and covers most of the actual waste disposal regulations. If the dumping occurred prior to the laws to stop it, then they really did everything right according to the mind-set at the time.

 

5.

“In my experience, most of the career environmental professionals are very conscientious and try to act in the public interest, but those at the top levels are political appointees who are operating on quite different agendas. I am not naive enough to believe that science and public health will always take precedence over political and fiscal considerations.”   
I agree with Jonboy. it could have happened. It could still happen.

 

6.

“we all know dadgum well that many sites have been tested and cleaned up by corporations that declared the problem solved and had their results rubberstamped by the state. look at issues in jersey city and hoboken regarding the waterfront improvements. i worked on those projects, i know what happens when the state trusts corporations and contractors to handle problems they created.” ucmike
I think you are a little off on this one. I happen to do a lot of work in Jersey City. DEP has never “rubber stamped” my work or any other report I am aware of. Are there bad consultants out there? Yes. Do they try and hide things from the DEP? You bet. As far as reopening a “clean” site goes, you would be amazed at what you find when you start digging a new foundation or when a buyers consultant looks at the property instead of a sellers. I have actually had a site that we thought was stabilized but got a call from a neighbor saying they saw a drum in the tidal swamp next to the work site. Having been focused on our work during the day, we never noticed what happened when the tide went out. Obviously we launched new investigations upon discovery of the drum. I have cases that are still pending from 4 years ago that we are just now learning may have alternate sources for contaminants. It happens. The DEP also has a little clause that is applied to a lot of sites that says basically “Problem Solved ...for now”. There is a difference between a site actively undergoing remediation and one that has stabilized contamination. Sometimes it just costs too much to dispose of the contaminated soils, so you pave over it. The asphalt keeps the contaminants from washing into the groundwater. It also prevents kids from playing in it. So the cheap way out is to keep the contamination under control until it can be dealt with. A restriction is placed on the deed which prevents any future owners from disturbing the soils. What you are seeing in the waterfront area is people finally getting around to old contamination that has been left and forgotten about for so long that the developers are being surprised at the time of construction.

 

“it wouldn't surprise me if the ultimate decision is that the site is safe enough to put a fence around and label it "problem solved"”
again ucmike, this will not be allowed to happen. Ford has a lot at stake in doing this correctly and quickly. Under the Comprehensive Environmental Responsibility Cleanup and Liability Act (CERCLA or more commonly “Superfund”) they can be held entirely responsible for the full costs of the remediation of the soil, groundwater, and surface water. The longer they wait, the further this stuff spreads. The cleanup costs will be enormous.

 

7. After much public outrage and national attention, the Love Canal site that started it all has finally been delisted from the National Priority List (Superfund program) The site has been worked on since around 1960. Now, about 40 years later, the site is no longer a national priority, but it still may be a local priority. I wish I had the final cost on me at the moment, but I left it at the office. The figure is staggering. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of the money spent in cleaning the site went to the attorneys who finally got the various dumpers to chip in for the cleanup. The actual Superfund is a fund created by surcharges charged to chemical manufacturers for the potential environmental damage they may do. Everyone pays in and when someone screws up, the fund pays out. In theory, the money goes to the cost of cleaning the site. In reality, the lawyers make out like bandits and a small portion of the money gets spent on the cleanup. So go on, give your lawyer a hug. Let them know you really appreciate them.

 

8. The press uses the stories to get readers outraged and reading more. Ford doesn’t want to see this coverage and see itself portrayed in a negative light. They really hosed the people of north Jersey and southern New York. The locals around the contaminated areas do want attention brought to their plight. The press has the right to report whatever they want. They also have the ability to select the wording they want to use and what to print and what not to print. In this case, they appear to have left out significant details on what was tested, how it was tested, and how those results actually compare to established guidelines.

 

Wow, after a lot of typing I realize that I had a lot to say, but my points are this:

 

You can’t break laws that don’t exist.

 

Before you go and get fired up and outraged, make sure you have all the data.

 

Understand that there are two sides to every story, and the newspaper usually takes one of them.

 

Current environmental laws demand complete cleanup at the site.

 

Cleanups can take years to plan let alone complete.

 

After sites are clean, there may still be areas with contamination that had not been identified.

 

Don’t forget to hug your lawyers for keeping the cases tied up for years before anything is even begun for the cleanup.

 

Negative environmental impacts occur on an everyday basis at almost all work places. Look at your own office operations and think of how much junk you generate and where it goes. If you see something that is not right, report it to someone. There are whistle-blower protection laws now.

 

Now that the problem is identified, keep an eye on the progress of the project. It is your right as a taxpayer and a citizen to know what is being done in your neighborhood. (Community Right to Know acts within the state, and the Freedom of Information Act federally).

 

Hey, I am also ticked about the situation. I love this area. But I just wanted to explain that there is a lot of the situation that is not being reported in this story. There are also a lot of highly qualified people out there who do this work on a regular basis. Let them do their work, but also ask and make sure it is done.

 

That’s all I am saying. I don't want to attack anyone personally. We are all agreed that this stuff will have to be cleaned up. I am just trying to defend those who may end up trying to actually do it.

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Trace levels are actually below regulatory thresholds for activity

 

Which is way above the healthy levels that humans should be near... we keep lowering the standards to accommodate more yuck! :anibad:

Ah, yes, healthy levels. Do they exist anywhere? Depending on the hazardous material under consideration... We can't live life in a bubble. I live on the Reading Prong. Very nice uranium and radon levels here. Guess I should move elsewhere? Asbestos dumps in the Great Swamp. Manganese on Bearfort Ridge. Zinc? All sorts of good, natural pollutants. Oh, well. Radium tainted soil in Montclair.

 

Hmm... I was wondering about Nuclear Lake in NY. Seemed like a strange name. Now I know why.

The toxic cleanup site on the AT at Palmerton, Pa, is interesting. I saw some hunters carrying out a deer once. I wouldn't want venison from there!

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You can’t break laws that don’t exist.

 

Before you go and get fired up and outraged, make sure you have all the data.

 

Understand that there are two sides to every story, and the newspaper usually takes one of them.

 

Current environmental laws demand complete cleanup at the site.

 

Cleanups can take years to plan let alone complete.

 

After sites are clean, there may still be areas with contamination that had not been identified.

 

Don’t forget to hug your lawyers for keeping the cases tied up for years before anything is even begun for the cleanup.

"Understand that there are two sides to every story, and the newspaper usually takes one of them."

There is a right and a wrong. Its the newspaper's job to focus on the former rather than the latter.

 

"You can’t break laws that don’t exist. "

The laws have always existed. It just took us awhile to write them down.

 

"Don’t forget to hug your lawyers for keeping the cases tied up for years before anything is even begun for the cleanup."

Blaming lawyers for a slow judicial system in general is not the answer. Lawyers protect people and their rights.

 

Greed is the ugliest sin.

Ford polluted our land and now they have to pay to clean it up. Tit for tat. :anibad:

Edited by Jerseytrex
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"Understand that there are two sides to every story, and the newspaper usually takes one of them."

There is a right and a wrong. Its the newspaper's job to focus on the former rather than the latter.

 

On your first point, that the newspapers job is to focus on what's right:

I sadly disagree. The job of newspapers is to sell news papers. More on that at eleven, look in this Sunday's paper for details, more on our continuing coverage... They all want you to keep buying the paper. Sensationalism sells.

 

Laws have not always existed. Until they are written down by the government and ratified by the people, they are just ethical codes. Ethics are highly debateable. For instance, to me it is not ethical to fly a plane into an occupied building. But by your argument, it must be legal because there is no law that specifically says you can't do that.

 

Lawyers protect people and their rights? Thank god someone is looking out for Ken Lay, Dennis Kozlowski, the Adelphia kids, Richard Reid... etc. If you look at the actual expenditures of the Superfund, you will clearly see that the vat majority of the funding went to pay the legal bills. It is a published fact, I just can't remember the specific location of the study on the EPA website.

 

"I guess we all know which way you voted last November." Wrong, I voted for Kerry. I happen to agree with you on the puppet president view.

 

"Ford polluted our land and now they have to pay to clean it up. Tit for tat." I agree with you. I know that I am sounding anti-environmental in this thread. That is the farthest from the truth. I am in the environmental industry because I care. You might be surprised how many peple with similar beliefs are also involved. The thing that irks me in the previous posts was that while it appears that nothing is happening, there is so much occuring behind the scenes that the general public doesn't know, understand, or care about. NJDEP technical reviews can take a very long time. Laboratory analysis on the amount of samples being collected can also be extremely long.

 

From the site that Briansnat provided:

 

Weather Related Delays

 

The recent snowstorm and unseasonably cold weather have forced Ford to temporarily suspend its paint sludge and drum remnant removal and site reconnaissance survey activities. Ford anticipates that if normal seasonal weather patterns continue, work could resume in early-March. While this work is suspended, Ford is preparing plans for additional investigative and remedial work. Ford’s goal is to resume its current activities, and commence this additional work as soon as weather and Site conditions allow.

 

OK, it makes sense. Even hiking on some of the trails is difficult. Imagine trying to drive them.

 

Paint Sludge and Drum Remnant Removal

 

ARCADIS G&M, Inc., Ford’s environmental consultant, has excavated approximately 300 tons of paint sludge and associated soil from State-owned property. Approximately 160 tons have been transported to an EPA-approved disposal location. The remaining 140 tons will be transported offsite in the coming weeks. Because of the recent snowstorm and unseasonably cold weather, Ford has temporarily suspended further excavation work. Ford has not completed its excavation of recently-identified paint sludge, nor has it excavated drum remnants identified earlier this year at the Ringwood Site. These activities will resume when Site and weather conditions allow.

 

So much for Jonboy's Quick Fix solution to squash a story. Removal is underway. Once the drums are removed and the site is clear enough to manouver, the investigation work can continue. Until the drums are removed, they represent an possible continuing source of contamination. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY ARE A CONTINUING SOURCE. THEY MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT. Either way, they have to be removed before in depth investigation can truly continue. Drilling through them accidently would cause much more damage and risk.

 

Groundwater and Surface Water sampling

 

Ford has submitted the results of its October/November 2004 round of groundwater and surface water sampling to EPA. In January 2005, Ford sampled three additional groundwater monitoring wells that had not been in a condition to sample in Fall 2004. One groundwater monitoring well remains inaccessible due to ice and snow.

 

EPA is reviewing the data. Excavation and drum removal is ongoing. Weather has been uncooperative, but the work continues.

 

What more can be done? Lets look at some alternatives

1. Turn back time and stop Ford from dumping. Not very practical, but hey, lets keep it in mind for the future.

2. Demolish the mountain and excavate all of the soil and pump all of the groundwater and drain the reservoir just in case a few drops made it that far. Well, it is a possibility. As you can see, this may have a few negative impacts on the environment and local inhabitants. Lets just call that plan Z.

3. Do whatever any local activist group says must be right because it feels right or they have heard a term in a meeting or in a book. Well, if they start running in every possible direction, they wont get to far in any direction.

4. Follow the procedures and practices that have successfully cleaned up Superfund and other similar contaminated sites in the past.

 

I vote for option 4. The work is being done. The professionals are doing it. Lets let them do it. The website for the company doing the cleanup is Arcadis Have a look.

 

In response to Avroairs comment "Which is way above the healthy levels that humans should be near... we keep lowering the standards to accommodate more yuck" Lower levels means more cleanup. Just wanted to clarify that direction and thought process. Yes. The levels have been lowered historically, but the result is less permissible contamination. One exception is the Total Petroleum Hydrocarbon (TPHc) limit which was originally 100 parts per million and has been raised to 10,000. Apparently, naturally occuring oil isn't as dangerous as previously thought. Heck, in Pennsylvania, some of the contaminated soils shipped from Jersey can be used as clean fill or topsoil. Why? That is what their health and environmental agencies believe to be acceptable. It is based on studies by respected safety and health agencies. Again, I don't know the studies they are based on, but I do know the process involved.

 

EDIT: A few of my spelling mistakes.

Edited by BMSquared
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EDIT: A few of my spelling mistakes. 

 

You still missed sum! :ph34r:

 

Whereas I agree with this, let just hope they clean it up properly this time rather than do a shoddy job and get reprimanded for it again. It is about time industry and companies took responsibility for their actions.

 

(And in case you are wondering who I voted for, it was no one since I can't vote). :D

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"I guess we all know which way you voted last November."  Wrong, I voted for Kerry.    I happen to agree with you on the puppet president view.

 

I should never have even brought that up I felt bad after I posted it. I revised the post later in that day. No harsh feelings. I hope.

No, absolutely no hard feelings. You shouldn't have revised the post. This is a very emotional subject for a lot of people and it clearly came across that way. Feel free to express yourself. My feelings are not hurt. I happen to be in a position that allows me to see both sides of the issue and with a technical perspective that most people don't have. I am replying to these posts to try and help explain what is going on. The process is long and boring. The technical stuff can be confusing and what we would expect to see is not always what we do see.

 

What hurt my feelings was your cache. I feel better now. See you at the picnic?

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"I guess we all know which way you voted last November."  Wrong, I voted for Kerry.    I happen to agree with you on the puppet president view.

 

I should never have even brought that up I felt bad after I posted it. I revised the post later in that day. No harsh feelings. I hope.

No, absolutely no hard feelings. You shouldn't have revised the post. This is a very emotional subject for a lot of people and it clearly came across that way. Feel free to express yourself. My feelings are not hurt. I happen to be in a position that allows me to see both sides of the issue and with a technical perspective that most people don't have. I am replying to these posts to try and help explain what is going on. The process is long and boring. The technical stuff can be confusing and what we would expect to see is not always what we do see.

 

What hurt my feelings was your cache. I feel better now. See you at the picnic?

No problem here. You are correct. You have much more inside info than we do. I was just commenting on some of your statements that sounded very right wing in general. But you were focusing on this one issue so I should have known better.

No hard feelings, we look forward to seeing you at the picknick. :lol:

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OK, now I'm feeling the love! Way to go, folks!

 

I think most people reacted the way they did in this thread because BMSquared typically comes off as such a complete ignoramus that everyone was shocked he knew what the heck he was talking about. I believe we have now regrouped and can carry on a reasonable dialogue. ;)

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I think most people reacted the way they did in this thread because BMSquared typically comes off as such a complete ignoramus that everyone was shocked he knew what the heck he was talking about. I believe we have now regrouped and can carry on a reasonable dialogue. ;)

Hey, it only took me four years for my degree. What about you there tough guy? (I do love the fact that I know you sat there with a spell checker and making sure you didn't misspell anything.)

 

PS- Mom always liked me better.

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An update on the toxic waste disaster in Ringwood. The clean-up has been haulted because the waste from the site is so polluted that no other landfill will accept it. The Bergen Record has been providing the principle leadership in keeping this issue from being buried. Read from the excellent website they greated here:

http://www.toxiclegacy.com/

This site has been declared "cleaned up" five times, with both the EPA and the DEP participating in this effort to mislead the public into believing that it is all being taken care of. When the government finally did attempt to curb this waste dumping in the 70's, the mob stepped in and took over the dumping, making millions in the process. This waste was dumped all over the area, not just in the mines. At it's peak, the plant was producing 6,000 gallons of paint sludge a day, and may have produced as much as 30,000,000 gallons of sludge over the life of the plant. Most of it still remains in Northern New Jersey, and if you think Ford Motors and the government are going to clean it up, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

I am not a greenie enviro-nut, but I spend a lot of time in northern New Jersey and occasionally drink the water. I will definitely think twice about that in the future.

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Sorry I can't be here enough to check this constantly. If you check the site Briansnat posted, the response tothe Records articles are pretty interesting. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I found the response to the mob waste disposal connection pretty funny and obvious.

 

Sorry, I am not here often enough to participate on a regular basis right now. My two computers had melt downs after I moved into my new house. That and the nice leaky roof they failed to disclose have made my life super pleasant. My office also lists this site as evil because it is a "chat room". :bad:

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