Friends Only

2.2k · December 21, 2004

There were 2 new caches listed recently by the same person. Both caches require that you log their personal TB to log a find on both caches.

The problem I have with this is that, unless your a personal friend of the cache owner, you could never log the find since the TB is always in their possession.

I find this type of cached biased and exclusionary because there is no reasonable way that anyone outside the circle of friends could ever possibly log it.

Thoughts?

22k · December 21, 2004

Thoughts?

Just evil ones.

December 21, 2004

Are you willing to provide links to the cache pages?

2.2k · December 21, 2004

The cache pages are mystery caches, so they wont provide any direct information.

I received my info driectly from one of the "friends" who have logged the find and got the inside scoop.

December 21, 2004

Ahhh, why not. It doesn't bug me. NPI

Hmmm... what about a cache you could only log when you sleep with someone? Hey, I'll show you my bug if you show me yours...! It gives a whole new meaning to the concept "so-and-so gave me a bug."

REMEMBER ME WHEN I'M FAMOUS FOR COMING UP WITH THIS IDEA!

December 21, 2004

We could call the bug cooties... ok off-topic, someone mod me

6.4k · December 21, 2004

If they are as WH says; I don't like it. I have no probem with "excluding" based on difficulty. I may never log a scuba cache, but it I wanted to go through the training I could. I might never do a cache that requires major rock climbing; but again I could if I was willing to put in the work. In my opinion, a private cache that is essentually invite-only may not technically violate any listed guidelines, but it sure does violate the spirit of them, and they have no place here.

December 21, 2004

Well, maybe he thinks making friends with him is a special skill? <_<

2.2k · December 21, 2004

In an email, the owner of the cache in question tried to defend the caches by trying to make a comparison with this cache of mine.

I explained that the major differenc was that the TB's involved with my cache, are out in caches moving around. With VERY rare exceptions, they are never in my possession and thus, open to anyone who wishes to track them down.

2.5k · December 21, 2004

In an email, the owner of the cache in question tried to defend the caches by trying to make a comparison with this cache of mine.

It seems then that your cache has something to do with the reason he placed his. Perhaps the coordinates of your cache are near his house and since he can't get to the bugs, your cache sits there and mocks him on his nearest page.

2.2k · December 21, 2004

The cacher in question logged the find quite a while ago.

December 21, 2004

Personally, I'm curious why someone would even be interested in listing their cache on gc.com if it is by invitation only. The person should just keep some cache cards in a pocket to hand out to friends and drop the listing from gc.com.

On the other hand, if one must email the cache owner and meet them someplace to make some kind of exchange, that would be an interesting twist (probably not a good one), but not quite private either.

My gut says - NO, this is not the place to list private caches. <_<

December 21, 2004

Well, what about people who turn themselves into a travel bug, and you can log them only at events? That's more or less the same thing, isn't it?

December 21, 2004

Well, what about people who turn themselves into a travel bug, and you can log them only at events? That's more or less the same thing, isn't it?

Travel bugs are not caches.

December 21, 2004

Well, what about people who turn themselves into a travel bug, and you can log them only at events? That's more or less the same thing, isn't it?

Travel bugs are not caches.

OK, you have a point <_<

2.2k · December 21, 2004

i'm trying to decide if i like the idea or not....will the owner meet up and give you the necessary info if he's never met you before?

but then it's a bit creepy. i know he could just want to increase his friends but i'd be a little uneasy meeting up with someone in those circumstances and i'd be completely against any child of mine doing so! sorry but that's how paedaphiles work. not that i'm making any accusations i stress, it's just i wouldn't want to take the risk.

i'd personally steer clear. all in all i don't like the idea.

1.8k · December 21, 2004

I'm not one to collect FTFs ... so this problem doesn't bother me.

9.4k · December 21, 2004

I'm not one to collect FTFs ... so this problem doesn't bother me.

I think this affects more then just the FTF

1.4k · December 21, 2004

My guess is we're talking about This cache.

If so, you could have logged it by speaking to him while you both attended This event cache.

Of course, if it's a diferent cache we're speaking of, I would be full o caca.

2.6k · December 21, 2004

What Mopar said.

I can see where this is going. Soon we have left-handed-cachers-only caches. NRA-membership-cachers only caches. Moustached-cachers-only caches. The whole concept screams for Godwin's Law. <_<

December 21, 2004

i'm trying to decide if i like the idea or not....will the owner meet up and give you the necessary info if he's never met you before?

but then it's a bit creepy. i know he could just want to increase his friends but i'd be a little uneasy meeting up with someone in those circumstances and i'd be completely against any child of mine doing so! sorry but that's how paedaphiles work. not that i'm making any accusations i stress, it's just i wouldn't want to take the risk.

i'd personally steer clear. all in all i don't like the idea.

Every one is someone's child.

I think it is a bit weird too.

December 21, 2004

Though I'm not an approver I know it has been discussed in the admin-forum: Caches where you just have to ask the owner for the koordinates/a key/important information are not allowed.

A SBA should do the trick with the cache.

December 21, 2004

In general, there may be some caches that are biased and exclusionary. All of mine are in some way.

If the problem is with particular cacher(s) and their cache(s), it would be helpful to have visited those in question for the sake of discussion. When it comes to unsolved puzzle caches, my thought is that the forums may not be the appropriate place to give out or take away clues for solving the puzzles, unless that is the intention of the cache owner(s).

Having recently completed a puzzle cache or two (and at the risk of losing some smileys), I would say that they could be located with good luck, good eyesight and/or persistance. If a puzzle hint, is what one wonders for, then you could be wandering.

Seek and you may find,

Ask and you might receive,

Knock it could be remove.

BTW, Winter Wander Geo-meet is scheduled for 1/23/05.

WH, hope to see you and your helpers.

2.1k · December 21, 2004

My feeling is that if its not open to the caching public, then it is a private cache, and should not be llisted on gc.com.

I have some private caches, but wouldn't dream of listing them on gc.com...it just goes against the grain of the community and distributed network thing that gc.com has going.

nfa-jamie

38.2k · December 21, 2004

Caches where you just have to ask the owner for the koordinates/a key/important information are not allowed.

Since when? Never saw that in the guidelines. Or is that one of the made up guidelines that pop up out of nowhere that the fellers down in Texas are in such a tizzy about?

As far as this cache. I don't care for it and probably would never attempt to log it if I lived in the area. But its not violating any published guidelines and is not a lot different from the (suddenly illegal) caches where you have to e-mail the owner for the actual coordinates (which BTW is a common practice in areas where cache pirates are active).

2.2k · December 21, 2004

My guess is we're talking about This cache.

If so, you could have logged it by speaking to him while you both attended This event cache.

Of course, if it's a diferent cache we're speaking of, I would be full o caca.

That is not the caches im referring too.

3.8k · December 21, 2004

If the cacher is active at events that you can meet him/her at I have no problem with this. It sounds like her/his attempt to get people to attend events. Particularly if you live in an area that has monthly events. Think Wings and Beer night. And if the cache is near the monthy event location it is even more appropriate.

2.2k · December 21, 2004

The cache owner has not attended any events since the caches were listed, yet all the people she normally caches with have already logged them. One of them even admits in his log that he went to the cache owner's house to get the TB info.

24.7k · December 21, 2004

Good idea. It would help keep cache maggots from stealing the cache.

If you wanted to find the caches I imagine you could find a way. This thread probably didn't help though.

December 21, 2004

I made the assumption that the travel bug involved with the caches under discussion was in a fixed location or cache equally accessible to everyone, which was obviously a mistake. My apologies to the NE geocaching community; I will be more diligent in my reviews going forward.

-gpsfun <_<

geocaching.com volunteer reviewer

2.3k · December 21, 2004

So what? So you can't find every SINGLE cache that is out there. Guess what? There are plenty more. Move on, find another one. It's not gonna kill you. Let the cache hider decide what type of cache they want, not throw a fit because YOU don't personally like it.

I think it was in bad form to point out exactly which cache this was, by the way. No need to make it public.

December 21, 2004

I made the assumption that the travel bug involved with the caches under discussion was in a fixed location or cache equally accessible to everyone, which was obviously a mistake. My apologies to the NE geocaching community; I will be more diligent in my reviews going forward.

-gpsfun

geocaching.com volunteer reviewer

We all make mistakes, its just a shame cache owners can't be more honest in their cache listings.

It looks bad on all of us in NE when a cache owner plays games of favoritism.

December 21, 2004

I have been waiting for the cache owners to chime in, but perhaps they are so weary of all this nonsense that they are just going about their business.

But, in the interest of fairness and FACTS, a few points:

will the owner meet up and give you the necessary info if he's never met you before?

The owner will give the info to anyone who follows the rules and asks for it.

The cache IS accessible to EVERYONE - everyone who follows a pretty specific set of rules, that is. Those who did not get the needed info did not follow the directions - pure and simple. As for the event - yes, those of us at the event who happened to speak to the cache owners did get a leg up - as in "We have placed a new cache - watch out for it." Nothing more.

Though I'm not an approver I know it has been discussed in the admin-forum: Caches where you just have to ask the owner for the koordinates/a key/important information are not allowed.

A SBA should do the trick with the cache.

You do not JUST have to ask for the info - it is simply part of the entire puzzle. And, an SBA was made - and DENIED - by Hydee.

Of course, there is much more to this story, but nothing of that is actually relevant to the question being posed here. The question here is whether or not the cache is a private cache - the answer is "no." This cache has been checked and OK'd by TPTB - that should end the speculation.

This is nothing more than personal sour grapes.

December 21, 2004

My feeling is that if its not open to the caching public, then it is a private cache, and should not be llisted on gc.com.

I have some private caches, but wouldn't dream of listing them on gc.com...it just goes against the grain of the community and distributed network thing that gc.com has going.

nfa-jamie

Absolutely! Could not agree more! <_<

1k · December 21, 2004

There will always be people whose idea of the "spirit of the game" is outside of the mainstream.

[...stupid, irrelevant remarks removed by the author...]

Personally, I prefer to focus on the mental and physical challenges, the chances to enjoy nature, the scenic and historic discoveries, and the time spent with my family. By taking this view, I win every time.

There are some caches that I will never find--because I don't have a kayak, I'm not into rock climbing, and so on. There are other caches that I choose to walk away from because I just don't like the hide. I can also live without logging mystery caches that require me to meet the owner.

Edited December 21, 2004 by reveritt

6.5k · December 21, 2004

I would to actually do, or at least attempt the cache to know...

If you can just contact the owner and say "hey im bob, whats the coords please?" then its ok. Adds extra wrinkles, but if you want to keep tight tabs on whos been to the cache it would be a way. OTOH if you have to do lots of weird, impossiable things, then no. If I want to spend my time sucking up to some needy person, im picking the person dang it!

OT

Renegade are maggots the pirate types who purposely find and steal caches or the lucky clepto ones who find a cache by mistake?

December 21, 2004

I thought the caches NH is talking about were NOT event related? And were not pointed out?

December 21, 2004

I would to actually do, or at least attempt the cache to know...
If you can just contact the owner and say "hey im bob, whats the coords please?" then its ok. Adds extra wrinkles, but if you want to keep tight tabs on whos been to the cache it would be a way. OTOH if you have to do lots of weird, impossiable things, then no. If I want to spend my time sucking up to some needy person, im picking the person dang it!

OT

Renegade are maggots the pirate types who purposely find and steal caches or the lucky clepto ones who find a cache by mistake?

I did specifically that for the caches in question, and was given a run around.

What's done is done. The cache is listed. The approver sent his apologies. The battle is over.

Let it go.

December 21, 2004

I definitely agree with the spirit of Reveritt's comments - some people get WAY to upset over DNF's - and, unfortunately, sometimes I am one of them <_< I mean, why else would I learn to rappel and then go over the side of a 60 foot cliff when I am terrified of heights?

But, again, I feel that it really needs to be made clear that the cache in question is not a private, or friends only cache. You (the royal you, not reveritt) do not need to meet the cache owner for the additional information. It is not imperative that you attended the aforementioned event. What a finder has to do is figure out the first step, take that first step, and then follow the directions. The first step is the "hard" part in this puzzle.

Like I said, this whole debate revolves around pre-existing personality conflicts. I am not involved in said conflict, nor am I taking sides with my comments here. But if the issue is whether or not the cache excludes all but those "in the know," then it should be clearly stated that it does not.

December 21, 2004

I don't see any real problem with it. Everybody can play this game the way they want to, and there are all kinds of caches to do, so what's the big deal?

3k · December 21, 2004

Well, it wasn't very hard to figure out which caches they are. But reading the cache page makes me go HUH?! And that's the kind of cache that would stay on my unfound list for a very, very long time. I tend to avoid caches that make me go HUH?! There are so many other caches out there! I'll be busy for a very long time, before I'd even need to think about it. If you need to meet the owner, I'd consider that special equipment, and I'd rate it a 5.

3.1k · December 21, 2004

BFD, there are plenty of caches near me that I'm not interested in.

6.5k · December 21, 2004

As Planet mentioned-finding out which caches are being discussed was a much easier puzzle to solve than the ones on the cache page. Generally I'll look for any and every cache nearby, or where I'm traveling except puzzles. :huh:

I'm not a big fan of puzzles, and have a few nearby still unfound. If I was in MA I might go for these depending on my mood, but not just to make a new friend. <_< Or maybe that would be reason enough? <_<

December 21, 2004

Can anybody post a link to the cache? Too lazy to search for myself

December 21, 2004

The information needed to log these caches has been available at events, two events this month already and the owner plans to attend additional events in the future. That means that any local cacher that is active in the community has the ability to log these two caches.

I think the logging requirements are unusual but fine. The cache owner worked hard on creative hides, so I have given permission to let them remain.

They are puzzle caches so please do not give away the mystery to these hides.

December 21, 2004

And AGAIN, it should be noted that you do not have to attend an event, or meet the owner in person, to obtain the info you need - since people seem to be stuck on those two points....

1k · December 21, 2004

I definitely agree with the spirit of Reveritt's comments - some people get WAY to upset over DNF's - and, unfortunately, sometimes I am one of them I mean, why else would I learn to rappel and then go over the side of a 60 foot cliff when I am terrified of heights?

But, again, I feel that it really needs to be made clear that the cache in question is not a private, or friends only cache. You (the royal you, not reveritt) do not need to meet the cache owner for the additional information. It is not imperative that you attended the aforementioned event. What a finder has to do is figure out the first step, take that first step, and then follow the directions. The first step is the "hard" part in this puzzle.

Like I said, this whole debate revolves around pre-existing personality conflicts. I am not involved in said conflict, nor am I taking sides with my comments here. But if the issue is whether or not the cache excludes all but those "in the know," then it should be clearly stated that it does not.

Well, considering what CL says about these caches, and their availability to everyone, then I wish I had kept my hot air to myself [except for the part she agreed with, of course <_< ].

There seems to be a lot of creativity in the geocaching community. I have lately seen a lot of attempts to "push the envelope" in various ways--outrageously difficult camouflage, micro-micros, mind-bending puzzles, physical challenges, and so on. I don't like all of it, or care to participate in all of it--and sometimes I get stumped, but so what? I guess what the cache owners in question have tried to do is just one more creative wrinkle in the ever-evolving game. Those who successfully met the challenge seem to have enjoyed it, which is the main thing.

1.2k · December 22, 2004

Can anybody post a link to the cache? Too lazy to search for myself

Yes, for goodness sake, post a link to the cache in question. :blink:

It's counter-productive to ask opinions and solicit discussion on a cache when all anyone has is 2nd or 3rd hand information.

Thanks

Ed

2.4k · December 22, 2004

The information needed to log these caches has been available at events, two events this month already and the owner plans to attend additional events in the future. That means that any local cacher that is active in the community has the ability to log these two caches.

I think the logging requirements are unusual but fine. The cache owner worked hard on creative hides, so I have given permission to let them remain.

They are puzzle caches so please do not give away the mystery to these hides.

The cache owner has not attended any events since the caches were listed, yet all the people she normally caches with have already logged them. One of them even admits in his log that he went to the cache owner's house to get the TB info.

Are we talking about the same caches here, it doesn't sound like it? IF like Hydee states, the hider is active at events, and it's easy to get the needed information, it doesn't sound too bad. However, if like WH is saying, the hider DOESN'T attend events, and you HAVE to meet this person somehow to get the coords, then it sound like a private cache, and shouldn't be listed here. But, then again, the hider and the select finders wouldn't get the stat if it wasn't listed here, and since it's all about the numbers...........

Edited December 22, 2004 by IV_Warrior

December 22, 2004

OK, one more time-

The cache hider attended two events and alerted people to the cache's appearance - the events were before the cache was approved. And, as I've stated 3 times now, the cache owners simply stated that they had a new cache coming, and that people would need to contact them for info.

Finders DO NOT HAVE to attend an event to get the info, NOR to they have to meet the hiders in person (I have NO idea why this is so hard for people to grasp).

The info is available to anyone who follows the directions - which are pretty specific.

It is a puzzle cache, so it does take some thought to figure out.

This thread was started simply as a way to stir up more of what is becoming a long-standing conflict between certain players - that's all. It has no merit - people did not follow the directions, did not get the info they wanted, and are now whining - pure and simple.

And again, the cache was reviewed, and now re-reviewed, and passes muster by GC standards - so I'm not sure why people are still questioning its legitimacy....

Sheesh, this isn't even my cache, I haven't even logged it, but it drives me crazy when you say 10 times "You don't need to meet the owners in person" and people are STILL harping on that piece of deliberate MISINFORMATION (and I'm a librarian - I don't care for misinformation).

Capice?????

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