Firearms

[uperdooper]

I tell you what...that little 5-shot, alloy, 640 hammerless, J-frame Smith revolver that lady in the picture got on her hip, ain't worth a bucket o'warm spit.

 

Dang, I seen one o'them same-ole hand-guns blowed up in buddies hand when he was plinkin at some old sodie cans.

a pellet gun will stop someone if you know where to shoot, and i'm sure Geo Ho knows where to shoot. so do i. i carry all the time, not just when caching. i rather go caching with Geo Ho than someone with a negative attitude.

[+Mopar]

I tell you what...that little 5-shot, alloy, 640 hammerless, J-frame Smith revolver that lady in the picture got on her hip, ain't worth a bucket o'warm spit.

 

Dang, I seen one o'them same-ole hand-guns blowed up in buddies hand when he was plinkin at some old sodie cans.

a pellet gun will stop someone if you know where to shoot, and i'm sure Geo Ho knows where to shoot. so do i. i carry all the time, not just when caching. i rather go caching with Geo Ho than someone with a negative attitude.

Hmmm..... let's see.... she can carry around 5 rounds of .38 Special hollow point for self-defense.... or a bucket o' warm spit..... its that really a tough choice for most people?

[+Anonymous']

When I go caching I usually choose places without the weirdos and I don't usually go caching in the backcountry so I don't need firearms.

[uperdooper]

I tell you what...that little 5-shot, alloy, 640 hammerless, J-frame Smith revolver that lady in the picture got on her hip, ain't worth a bucket o'warm spit.

 

Dang, I seen one o'them same-ole hand-guns blowed up in buddies hand when he was plinkin at some old sodie cans.

a pellet gun will stop someone if you know where to shoot, and i'm sure Geo Ho knows where to shoot. so do i. i carry all the time, not just when caching. i rather go caching with Geo Ho than someone with a negative attitude.

Hmmm..... let's see.... she can carry around 5 rounds of .38 Special hollow point for self-defense.... or a bucket o' warm spit..... its that really a tough choice for most people?

as a female cacher that also carrys, i'll take GH and her ..38s. hollow points that is.

[+ibycus]

Nope, don't carry a gun. Never even touched a gun in my life. Never had a reason to touch a gun either, or been in a situation where I would have wanted a gun, then again, I'm in Canada, and we're mostly nice folks up here. I have a suspicion that mostly americans are too, but you're generally more paranoid than we are up here.

Just so this is a at least remotely on topic, I would ask all those who do carry while caching to privately evaluate whether it is paranoia, or actual need to carry a gun that makes you carry one. (note I said privately, I really don't care to hear about it, as that way leads thread locking ) If you feel that you really do need to carry a gun while caching (and it is legal for you to do so), by all means do so. But I do agree you might get a more on topic responce from a regional forum.

[+B&K Whiting]

sometimes a weapon COULD come in handy, depends on where you live. see log below.

 

July 10 by driven1 (26 found)

One to tell the Grandkids! (If we ever have any.)

This one turned out to be more of an adventure than we expected. We finally reached the area we were going to set up camp at around 5:30 and by 6:30 we were ready to head off to the cache. Was kind of in the back of my head that we should wait til Sunday because it was getting a little late but from where we set up camp the cache was about 0.8 of a mile away so we figured we could do it. We didn't take the recommended route. Blazed our own trail! Perhaps a bit of a mistake but the hiking really wan't all that bad and we made it to the Cache around 8:00.

 

Around 8:30 I told Driven2 that we had to get going or we'd run out of daylight getting back, so off we went.

 

We DID run out of daylight and it was a Moonless night. No matter, we had our brand new flashlights from a local cheapy store. So my wife turned hers on (she has poor night vision) and we kept on going. About 20 minutes later the bulb in her flashlight blows. No biggie, I've got mine, so I turn it on and we continue on. Ten minutes later the bulb in that one goes!

 

So now we're left with a couple of decisions. I could mark her spot on our GPS, leave her there and go find Camp and get the good flashlight and come back and get her. Or we could build a fire (which was going to have to be done in either case) and we could both stay there till daybreak. It wasn't a matter of flipping a coin, as I was zeroing in on our location the batteries in the GPS died! So I grabbed one of our cheapie flashlights and popped the batteries from it into the GPS. Wouldn't you know it, not only did the flashlights' bulbs suck, so did its batteries. Not enough juice to run the GPS. Tried the other set. Same thing! Last chance was our Digital Camera. Tried the batteries from that. Got semi-lucky. They would fire up the GPS but there was about half a charge left. I decided it was best to save that for the morning. So we spent the night where we were.

 

We gathered up some firewood and got a fire going and decided to take turns sleeping by the fire to keep it going.

I let my wife sleep a bit (although she was having a hard time) til 2:30 am and then it was going to be my turn. I couldn't sleep either. It wasn't all that cold or anything, was actually a very nice night, but it was a bit on the damp side. Suddenly there was a flurry of barking and howling. A pack of Coyotes! Sounded like there were about 8 to 10 of them. There was a "Scout" to the North of us and the rest of the pack was to the East. They werent too far off either. Couldn't have been more that 4 or 500 feet. Just out of the fire's illumination range. I stood up and the second I did they stopped howling. We were being watched! I knew now that we absolutely had to keep the fire going. Most of the wood that I found was rotten and/or damp or a type of wood that doesn't burn paticularly well. We had a pellet pistol with us and were using Ski Poles with sharp metal tips for hiking and also had a couple of camping knives with us as weaponry. Needless to say, from that point on neither of us slept. We kept the fire going all night and then at daybreak we headed out through the brush towards camp.

 

Earlier, when it was dark and we were exploring the possibility of heading to camp instead of staying, we kept running into thickets of trees and couldn't find a way through where we were at. As soon as morning broke I noticed that there was a small clearing on the other side of some trees NW of our location. I turned on the GPS and we headed for that. About 7 minutes later we were back at camp. So close, yet so far away!

 

We had a much needed celebratory cigarette, a drink of water, and then we crawled into the tent, peeled our wet clothes off, and snuggled into our nice warm sleeping bags and slept till noon.

 

Ah, GeoCaching! Ya gotta love it!

 

Thanks for the hide (and the experience)!

 

Driven 2 took the Jeep TB and we left a Camping multi-knife.

[+Mudfrog]

I think that anyone who wants to drool over her is obligated to read this thread first.

Or you can drool over these.

Yes indeedy! Make that 2nd picture into a poster and put it up at the local Army recruiting office. There would be an extra long line of volunteers ready to sign up for duty!!!

 

On topic, a permit is required to carry a gun here in Texas. Neither of us have that permit, therefore we dont carry one too often. We usually take one with us on long trips but so far, never on a geocaching adventure.

[+clearpath]

sometimes a weapon COULD come in handy, depends on where you live. see log below.

 

July 10 by driven1 (26 found)

One to tell the Grandkids! (If we ever have any.)

This one turned out to be more of an adventure than we expected. We finally reached the area we were going to set up camp at around 5:30 and by 6:30 we were ready to head off to the cache. Was kind of in the back of my head that we should wait til Sunday because it was getting a little late but from where we set up camp the cache was about 0.8 of a mile away so we figured we could do it. We didn't take the recommended route. Blazed our own trail! Perhaps a bit of a mistake but the hiking really wan't all that bad and we made it to the Cache around 8:00.

 

Around 8:30 I told Driven2 that we had to get going or we'd run out of daylight getting back, so off we went.

 

We DID run out of daylight and it was a Moonless night. No matter, we had our brand new flashlights from a local cheapy store. So my wife turned hers on (she has poor night vision) and we kept on going. About 20 minutes later the bulb in her flashlight blows. No biggie, I've got mine, so I turn it on and we continue on. Ten minutes later the bulb in that one goes!

 

So now we're left with a couple of decisions. I could mark her spot on our GPS, leave her there and go find Camp and get the good flashlight and come back and get her. Or we could build a fire (which was going to have to be done in either case) and we could both stay there till daybreak. It wasn't a matter of flipping a coin, as I was zeroing in on our location the batteries in the GPS died! So I grabbed one of our cheapie flashlights and popped the batteries from it into the GPS. Wouldn't you know it, not only did the flashlights' bulbs suck, so did its batteries. Not enough juice to run the GPS. Tried the other set. Same thing! Last chance was our Digital Camera. Tried the batteries from that. Got semi-lucky. They would fire up the GPS but there was about half a charge left. I decided it was best to save that for the morning. So we spent the night where we were.

 

We gathered up some firewood and got a fire going and decided to take turns sleeping by the fire to keep it going.

I let my wife sleep a bit (although she was having a hard time) til 2:30 am and then it was going to be my turn. I couldn't sleep either. It wasn't all that cold or anything, was actually a very nice night, but it was a bit on the damp side. Suddenly there was a flurry of barking and howling. A pack of Coyotes! Sounded like there were about 8 to 10 of them. There was a "Scout" to the North of us and the rest of the pack was to the East. They werent too far off either. Couldn't have been more that 4 or 500 feet. Just out of the fire's illumination range. I stood up and the second I did they stopped howling. We were being watched! I knew now that we absolutely had to keep the fire going. Most of the wood that I found was rotten and/or damp or a type of wood that doesn't burn paticularly well. We had a pellet pistol with us and were using Ski Poles with sharp metal tips for hiking and also had a couple of camping knives with us as weaponry. Needless to say, from that point on neither of us slept. We kept the fire going all night and then at daybreak we headed out through the brush towards camp.

 

Earlier, when it was dark and we were exploring the possibility of heading to camp instead of staying, we kept running into thickets of trees and couldn't find a way through where we were at. As soon as morning broke I noticed that there was a small clearing on the other side of some trees NW of our location. I turned on the GPS and we headed for that. About 7 minutes later we were back at camp. So close, yet so far away!

 

We had a much needed celebratory cigarette, a drink of water, and then we crawled into the tent, peeled our wet clothes off, and snuggled into our nice warm sleeping bags and slept till noon.

 

Ah, GeoCaching! Ya gotta love it!

 

Thanks for the hide (and the experience)!

 

Driven 2 took the Jeep TB and we left a Camping multi-knife.

wow, great story ... thanks for sharing. Kind of reminds me of a story about a rock climber that was caught on the rock at night. It was too dark for him to see that night and he ended up dying from exposure. When they found him hanging from his rope, he was only a few feet from the ground. Apparently, he had no idea he was that close to saftey ...

[uperdooper]

wow, great story ... thanks for sharing. Kind of reminds me of a story about a rock climber that was caught on the rock at night. It was too dark for him to see that night and he ended up dying from exposure. When they found him hanging from his rope, he was only a few feet from the ground. Apparently, he had no idea he was that close to saftey ...

i wonder why he just didn't drop something and see how long it took for it to hit the ground? the sound would have told him how high he was.

[dsandbro]

It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six...

[+Mopar]

I just got an interesting email regarding this thread. The email, and my reply are on topic to this discussion.

It should be duly noted that the picture posted by user Mopar on the forums at

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=86507 portraying a member of geocaching.com

carrying a gun, is likely depicting an illegal act.

 

She would only be exempt from local state (NJ, NY, CT) statues barring possession of a pistol if she were a codified law enforcement officer with proper credentials who is authorized to carry a firearm.

Carry permits are only issued in these states to those persons who pass firearm proficiency requirements and are only issued to qualifying applicants after review by a Superior Court Judge and the applicants local Chief-of-Police.  They are ONLY issued for those applicants deemed to show a need for use during the course of their employment and are NOT valid at any other time.

 

Addionally, the user Mopar has stated in his posting in the same thread that the woman depicted is also carrying ".38 Special hollow point for self-defense" showing both ammunition and purpose that is prohibited by law.

 

Does geocaching.com condone illegal activities as serious as carrying illegal firearms and prohibited ammunition while searching for geocaches?  From what I see here, it seems this is the case.

 

 

I believe this topic is about LEGALLY carrying a firearm for self defense while geocaching. Since this is a international forum, it should be pointed out that different countries and different states in the US have drastically different laws when it comes to carrying a firearm in public. Some states, such as NJ, or even just some cities such as NYC have laws that state you can only get a carry permit if you show just cause. Many other states in the US (39 of them, I believe) are what is know as "shall issue" states, meaning unless the state can show just cause for denying you a permit, they must issue you one. The state Constitution of CT specifically states that the issuing authority may inquire into the reason that you wish a permit in order to determine that your intent is not unlawful, but they may not deny you a permit on grounds of "insufficient need".

 

The person referred to is a resident of CT, which is a shall issue state, and has a both a local and a state issued permit for carrying a concealed firearm and is legally allowed to use the type ammo it's loaded with in this state.

Some states require a permit, some do not. Some states are virtually impossible to get a permit (NJ) and some states will issue a permit to anyone with a clean police record, clean health record, and proper training (CT).

A good source for info on carry laws in the USA is www.packing.org

There has been a lot of interest among local cachers in CT about getting a permit. I am considering putting together a geocachers only state approved course in safety and use of pistols/revolvers taught by a geocacher who is also a NRA and CT state certified instructor.

Edited December 20, 2004 by Mopar

[+clearpath]

wow, great story ... thanks for sharing.  Kind of reminds me of a story about a rock  climber that was caught on the rock at night.  It was too dark for him to see that night and he ended up dying from exposure.  When they found him hanging from his rope, he was only a few feet from the ground.  Apparently, he had no idea he was that close to saftey ...

i wonder why he just didn't drop something and see how long it took for it to hit the ground? the sound would have told him how high he was.

I don't remember many of the story details ... but the guy probably started freezing to death and had limited faculty ... I don't even know if its a true story, for some reason though it stuck in my mind.

[Jeremy]

I believe this topic is about LEGALLY carrying a firearm for self defense while geocaching.

*swish*

[CoyoteRed]

I don't believe my hiking staff would be enough.

I've long held that your brain can be the best defense against being a victim. I'd think most LEO would agree.

 

Awareness of your surroundings is probably the most important thing. Seeing the danger and being able to back out before it is too late is, IMHO, always the best defense.

 

Being a harder target would be the next step up, I'd think, but only after the first step is taken care of. This would include being larger (though no one can change their size), being more than one person i.e. a partner, acting "quietly confident," and other things contribute to being a harder target.

 

If you still need the final backup, then carry. I own, but don't carry because in the South your wardrobe just isn't conducive to carrying a large frame pistol. I've been eyeing a KelTec 380. I've heard good things about its realiability. It's very light and small--slips into a front pants pocket with ease. Hollow points in the summer, solid nose in the winter to penetrate heavy winter clothing. (But then I could carry the larger pistol.)

 

BUT one thing you should always remember, know and obey the law. In South Carolina, you always have the duty to retreat before you can use deadly force and just displaying a weapon can get you arrested, even if it was clearly in self defense. And even if you successfully lethally defend yourself, you might still lose your home and posessions because the relatives will try to sue you blind.

 

Carrying is not a trivial thing to do. Do it if you must, but be informed of the consequences if you do.

[kayaker22589]

I tell you what...that little 5-shot, alloy, 640 hammerless, J-frame Smith revolver that lady in the picture got on her hip, ain't worth a bucket o'warm spit.

 

Dang, I seen one o'them same-ole hand-guns blowed up in buddies hand when he was plinkin at some old sodie cans.

a pellet gun will stop someone if you know where to shoot, and i'm sure Geo Ho knows where to shoot. so do i. i carry all the time, not just when caching. i rather go caching with Geo Ho than someone with a negative attitude.

Thats what I carry when I cache. A good pellet gun is a safer way to get your "I don't wanna be messed with" point across. Alot of them look like a lager caliber rifle then what they really are. My gun though is a daisy powerline with some kind of large scope. Its pretty dang accurate, I can hit a quarter from across my yard, about 25 yards.

[+Monkeybrad]

CR is absolutely right, even down to his choice of carry weapon for our climate. I carry the same weapon whenever it is legal to do so and it does hide exceptionally well. But far more importantly he discusses ways to lessen your chance of being a victim and the incredible responsibility which comes with carrying a firearm.

 

Here is how I look at it. I have to choose to lose. In almost any situation I can allow things to escalate to the point where deadly force is necessary and then I have the means in my power to produce it. This may be a strange way to look at things, but it works for me. I have taken shoving abuse and a couple of punches and walked away, even though I had a firearm on me. While dealing with an escalating situation I decided that these guys were not going to kill me or even do grievous hurt to me, so I fought it out and took some lumps and then got clear as soon as it was possible. At any point I could have produced my weapon and changed the dynamic of the situation, but given the circumstances someone would have probably ended up dead. So I chose to take my lumps rather than escalate the situation, even though I would have been in the right, legally. Before you carry, you need to figure out if you would be able to do that.

 

As far as the pellet gun theory goes, in Tennessee brandishing a pellet gun in a threatening manner carries the same charge and penalty as brandishing a "real" gun, as does brandishing a toy gun. They all look like guns and you can be charged as if they were guns.

[+ValleyRat & TillyMouse]

Geez! Guns and geocaching, eh? Must be an American thing? Not an issue up here, eh?

Yepp, it must an american thing. It is forbidden to carry weapons in my country, and the risk of running into a maniac is quite low, since they are also forbidden to carry weapons

And we all know that maniacs never break the law.

[+Mopar]

A good pellet gun is a safer way to get your "I don't wanna be messed with" point across.  Alot of them look like a lager caliber rifle then what they really are.  My  gun though is a daisy powerline with some kind of large scope.  Its pretty dang accurate, I can hit a quarter from across my yard,  about 25 yards.

ACK! No it's not safer at all! Part of carrying safely and legally is knowing when to draw your weapon. You have a legal and moral obligation to exhaust every other means possible to resolve a conflict before drawing a gun. Even if that means running away. Really, the ONLY time anyone should even know you have a gun is when the ONLY way to protect yourself or others is to kill someone/thing. If you are not ready, willing, and able to do that, you run a serious risk of making a bad situation even worse. Yea, it's technically possible to kill someone with a BB gun, but it would take more luck then anything else. There's a much better chance it will just piss your attacker off. There is also the chance the person you are trying to scare will recognize it for what it realy is. Trust me, if you pointed a .45 at me and I'm staring down a .177 bore, I'm gonna take it away from you and slap you for being stupid.

edit: While I was typing, Monkeybrad said it much better then I did. And somehow I totally missed CR's post which is 100% dead on too.

Edited December 21, 2004 by Mopar

[+Mopar]

I've been eyeing a KelTec 380.  I've heard good things about its realiability.

CR, before you actually buy that 380, look a little deeper please.I have no personal experience with it, just seen some conflicting reviews.

Edited December 21, 2004 by Mopar

[SFABobby03]

From someone who carries the KelTec 380, both while roaming around and while caching, I would have to say that this is a superb gun to carry concealed. It seems to be fairly accurate (obviously not as accurate as a full size handgun, some might disagree with that) but it is a good all around gun. I recently upgraded to it from the KelTec .32 which I really liked to. It fits perfectly in my pocket and has a long trigger pull so it would be hard to discharge in your pocket. I also carry mine in a pocket holster to further make an accidental discharge less possible. I carry it almost everywhere I go. I pray that I never have to use it but I know that that possibility is always there these days and I might have to. I would obviously exhaust all other possibilities to difuse a situation before I would even think of using the threat of deadly force. I read a thread somewhere about some cachers who were held hostage basically by some guys with guns on horseback. Personally I thought with all the threats and stuff they were lucky to be alive when it was over. Being out in the woods alot these days can be dangerous and I like the added security of knowing I can defend myself against a dangerous animal or some idiot with a gun should that situation ever present itself!

[+Monkeybrad]

Kel-Tec always gets a bad rap, the fact is they are cheap guns, and the fit and finish is sub-par. However, I own four of them including to P-11's, a .32 and the new 3AT. The first thing i do woith them is tear them down and do a fluff and buff, polish the ramps, check for clear movement on all the parts. With a couple of hours of finish work they make great little guns. Of course i do this with every firearm I purchase, it is just that the Kel-Tec's require more finishing than higher quality more expensive weapons. Alternately, if you send them back to Kel-Tec they will do many of these services for free. I have sent a couple back with minor issues and their service has been top drawer, free magazines for my trouble kind of friendly.

 

Both the .380 and the .32 are too weak for my tastes, however, these are so small that you forget you are carrying them and you do not end up leaving them in the car because of weight or concealment issues, which happens with my Glock 30. As a good friend once told me, the best carry gun is the one you have with you. Their accuracy leaves something to be desired, but they are dead on under 25 feet, and frankly for self defense you should not be making shots longer than this anyway. I choose to carry the baby Kel-Tec when geocaching, because it is lightweight, fairly tough, and cheap. If something were to happen to it, I can replace it for a couple of hundred bucks.

 

Even though I am talking about the gun I carry most often while geocaching, this is gettin OT. If you have any questions or concerns about the Kel-Tec stuff, or many other weapons for that matter, i will be happy to try to help, just email me or we can do it in the OT forum.

[+Planet]

all these guns! I'm gonna get me one of these:

 

Maybe I'll load it with some powerful ammunition, like tequila.

[+Mopar]

As a good friend once told me, the best carry gun is the one you have with you. Their accuracy leaves something to be desired, but they are dead on under 25 feet, and frankly for self defense you should not be making shots longer than this anyway. I choose to carry the baby Kel-Tec when geocaching, because it is lightweight, fairly tough, and cheap. If something were to happen to it, I can replace it for a couple of hundred bucks.

 

Even though I am talking about the gun I carry most often while geocaching, this is gettin OT. If you have any questions or concerns about the Kel-Tec stuff, or many other weapons for that matter, i will be happy to try to help, just email me or we can do it in the OT forum.

To stay on the topic of carrying a firearm for protection while geocaching...

I would say your good friend is only half right. The best carry gun is the one you have with you and works when you need it to. Plusses and minus of a certain brand are probably off-topic, and besides there is no way and heck I would debate someone on the problems if a specific brand unless I had one in the safe at home, or at least some 1st hand experience. Especially not someone who owns 4! On topic, I feel if you are going to carry a gun to defend your life, you better be confident it will do so if called upon. A big, cheap p*nis extention pistol might impress your buddies from the bar, but if it's too big to carry or jams every 4 rounds, it's useless for personal defense.

[+Mopar]

Maybe I'll load it with some powerful ammunition, like tequila.

Shoot me! Shoot me first!

 

[+1stimestar]

I tell you what...that little 5-shot, alloy, 640 hammerless, J-frame Smith revolver that lady in the picture got on her hip, ain't worth a bucket o'warm spit.

 

Dang, I seen one o'them same-ole hand-guns blowed up in buddies hand when he was plinkin at some old sodie cans.

a pellet gun will stop someone if you know where to shoot, and i'm sure Geo Ho knows where to shoot. so do i. i carry all the time, not just when caching. i rather go caching with Geo Ho than someone with a negative attitude.

Thats what I carry when I cache. A good pellet gun is a safer way to get your "I don't wanna be messed with" point across. Alot of them look like a lager caliber rifle then what they really are. My gun though is a daisy powerline with some kind of large scope. Its pretty dang accurate, I can hit a quarter from across my yard, about 25 yards.

I'm not worried about PEOPLE while caching. It's those pesky grizzlie bears that would have me packing... BB guns wouldn't even take out our mosquitoes up here in Alaska.

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

My preference is to not carry a gun.

A) In my area it's illegal (Canada)

I don't desire to own a gun (and belive me, I'm resisting the urge to get off topic here)

C) if I have to carry a gun to an area to feel safe, I don't want to be in that area.

D) I'm just not that afraid of wierdos and animals. Good head, travelling companions in remote areas and a noise-maker will ussually solve problems here.

 

I'm not surprised at the reponses in favour of weapons in this post though. If you live in an area where well-armed, scared and wierd people are roaming around - it seems to make sense to protect yourself in kind. I'm just glad I don't live in such an area!

 

Fortunately, I have a special "bullet proof bubble suit" that protects me from all harm as I drift from cache to cache. I don't even open caches anymore because I am afraid they are bombs. I don't even turn on my GPS anymore because I'm afraid "they" might find me -- the wierdo's with tracking systems -- you know them.

[chemfed]

Geocaching anyone?

 

In case y'all are wondering, yes it is me whith all those nasty guns!

Edited December 21, 2004 by chemfed

[+ibycus]

A) In my area it's illegal (Canada)

 

Is it really? I've never looked in to it.

 

I don't desire to own a gun (and belive me, I'm resisting the urge to get off topic here)

I think its funny how the message board turned your B ) in to a

 

C) if I have to carry a gun to an area to feel safe, I don't want to be in that area. 

 

Good point, I think the fact that I'm totally uncomfortable around guns, would probably make be feel less rather than more safe. Then again I've seen too many Hollywood movies where the bad guy takes the gun away (or the good guy gets the gun off the bad guy for that matter).

 

I'm not surprised at the reponses in favour of weapons in this post though.  If you live in an area where well-armed, scared and wierd people are roaming around - it seems to make sense to protect yourself in kind.    I'm just glad I don't live in such an area!

 

Ditto.

 

Fortunately, I have a special "bullet proof bubble suit" that protects me from all harm as I drift from cache to cache. 

 

Hey where can I buy me one of them does GPS Central keep them in stock?

[+clearpath]

Fortunately, I have a special "bullet proof bubble suit" that protects me from all harm as I drift from cache to cache.  I don't even open caches anymore because I am afraid they are bombs.  I don't even turn on my GPS anymore because I'm afraid "they" might find me -- the wierdo's with tracking systems -- you know them.

LOL!!! that pretty funny. What would the world be like if not for the paranoid nut jobs ...

[+Markwell]

slightly off topic

 

I've never understood the desire to carry a "concealed" weapon. While I don't carry or own a gun, if I were to carry one, I'd have a T-shirt and Orange day-glo vest emblazened with the words "I've got a gun" stamped in 4 languages. Take a lesson from nature and advertise the fact that I'm poisonous.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh nor critical - just trying to understand. Are the people that advocate concealed weapons interested in surprising the bad guys?

Edited December 21, 2004 by Markwell

[CoyoteRed]

I'm not trying to be harsh nor critical - just trying to understand. Are the people that advocate concealed weapons interested in surprising the bad guys?

Most of the time the presence of a firearm causes people to be uncomfortable.

 

I know several LEO and the more experienced are much more likely to not carry or carry concealed than the lesser experience who might carry openly.

 

Second, if a bad guy knows there are people who carry but can't tell which one is safe to attack and which ones aren't, then he might think twice. OTOH, if you could only carry openly or had to let everyone know you are carrying, they would only attack those that are safe to attack.

 

The idea of concealed carry has merit and really is the only way to go.

[+Mopar]

slightly off topic

 

I've never understood the desire to carry a "concealed" weapon. While I don't carry or own a gun, if I were to carry one, I'd have a T-shirt and Orange day-glo vest emblazened with the words "I've got a gun" stamped in 4 languages. Take a lesson from nature and advertise the fact that I'm poisonous.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh nor critical - just trying to understand. Are the people that advocate concealed weapons interested in surprising the bad guys?

Actually, nature is a GREAT example to follow.

Look at a rattlesnake. The first thing he does is try to blend in so you don't even notice him. If confronted, he will try to flee if possible. If that doesn't work he looks fierce and makes noise. Only if he can't make you leave, and there is no other choice he can see for escape, only then will he strike. Most other creatures in nature are the same way. Given a chance between fight and flee, they will almost always flee, even when they appear to have the upper hand.

[+clearpath]

Actually, nature is a GREAT example to follow.

Look at a rattlesnake. The first thing he does is try to blend in so you don't even notice him. If confronted, he will try to flee if possible. If that doesn't work he looks fierce and makes noise. Only if he can't make you leave, and there is no other choice he can see for escape, only then will he strike. Most other creatures in nature are the same way. Given a chance between fight and flee, they will almost always flee, even when they appear to have the upper hand.

In science its called 'fight or flight response' ... unfortunately with humans, we have ways of 'dulling' or overriding this instinct inherit with most animals. Humans are much more likey to drink alcohol or take drugs (legal and/or illegal) than say a rattlesnake. Also, various mental and social factors can override the fight or flight response ... when people feel hopeless or depressed from social conditions beyond their control.

[+Mule Ears]

In science its called 'fight or flight response' ... unfortunately with humans, we have ways of 'dulling' or overriding this instinct inherit with most animals. Humans are much more likey to drink alcohol or take drugs (legal and/or illegal) than say a rattlesnake.  Also, various mental and social factors can override the fight or flight response ... when people feel hopeless or depressed from social conditions beyond their control.

 

In the context of the thread, Geocachers packing heat in dangerous and/or remote areas, I am hoping that we can generally rule out various kinds of intoxication. Mental derangement is somewhat more likely, as it is a characteristic of the Geocaching personality. Hopelessness and depression can be brought on by excessively camouflaged wilderness caches, but it's generally short-term...

 

The discussion here is not whether or not private gun possession is a social good, it's about whether and under what circumstances geocachers arm themselves. The responses have been quite level-headed.

 

Seems to me you're looking only at the negative aspect of the human version of "fight or flight." Rational, sober, and particularly well-trained humans employ their intellectual powers to tailor the response to the situation, using less-than-lethal force when appropriate. Once the snake exhausts his intimidation ritual, if the apparent threat still exists, he strikes. Doesn't matter whether it's a curious toddler or a stumbling hiker--it gets bit.

[+2dest]

CoyoteRed is right, and I would like to add to that. Here is in VA you can openly carry with only a few exceptions. However there are several advantages to concealing (legally via permit); should there be an armed confrontation, even if the carrier is not directly involved, the visible gun on the hip can make the carrier a target. He might be in danger just because he poses a risk to the bad guy's activities. Secondly, there is "take away", where a thief grabs a handgun and takes it from a holster before the carrier can react. A bad guy is now armed. Finally, even though you can carry openly where allowed by law, there are instances where someone will be alarmed and will call law enforcement to report a man with a gun. Someone legally carrying can be detained - or in a worst case senario - the situation could escalate because of miscommunication.

By the way, bad guys don't care about the laws and laws will not keep them from being armed. Also, one cannot choose safe locations. Just ask someone victim to a home invasion. One can be aware of surroundings and have keys handy or a cell phone ready, and some type of self-defense. All that being said, I feel much safer in the wilderness than I do getting there! Interesting thread - hope it doesn't get locked!

[+Markwell]

With the nature thing, I was talking more about animals like this:

 

He's certainly not trying to blend into his surroundings. He's making his presence quite known, and the markings indicate to potential predators that he's poisonous. That defense also works so well that other animals will survive if they look like a poisonous animal but aren't really poisonous themselves.

 

Still slightly off topic

If you're darwinistic in nature:

*Some froggies mutate and develop poisonous skin.

*Big animals eat the frogs, but the big animals that eat the poisonous froggies die.

*Some big animals develop an instinct for avoiding poisonous froggies, and pass that instinct on to their young.

*Some poisonous froggies develop bright markings indicating that they are poisonous and pass that on to their young.

*Bright poisonous froggies flourish and Big animals that avoid eating bright poisonous froggies flourish

 

Later on, a non-poisonous froggy mutates and looks like the bright poisonous froggy. Since he doesn't get eaten and his brothers do, all of his offspring look like bright poisonous froggies.

 

Thanks for clueing me in to the benefits of concealed weapons.

Edited December 21, 2004 by Markwell

[koz]

I think I'll stay here in Canada and Geocache.

i think i'll move to canada and cache...and to vote

[chemfed]

With the nature thing, I was talking more about animals like this:

 

He's certainly not trying to blend into his surroundings. He's making his presence quite known, and the markings indicate to potential predators that he's poisonous. That defense also works so well that other animals will survive if they look like a poisonous animal but aren't really poisonous themselves.

 

Still slightly off topic

If you're darwinistic in nature:

*Some froggies mutate and develop poisonous skin.

*Big animals eat the frogs, but the big animals that eat the poisonous froggies die.

*Some big animals develop an instinct for avoiding poisonous froggies, and pass that instinct on to their young.

*Some poisonous froggies develop bright markings indicating that they are poisonous and pass that on to their young.

*Bright poisonous froggies flourish and Big animals that avoid eating bright poisonous froggies flourish

 

Later on, a non-poisonous froggy mutates and looks like the bright poisonous froggy. Since he doesn't get eaten and his brothers do, all of his offspring look like bright poisonous froggies.

 

Thanks for clueing me in to the benefits of concealed weapons.

Or another twist. Let’s imagine we live in a state that allows its citizens to carry concealed weapons. Some people take this bold step while most do not. The bad guys (BG), not knowing how this will affect their vocation, continue their nefarious deeds. Early on in the process, the BGs pick individuals who, at first, appear to be soft targets, the elderly, women, etc. In the past these sheep were easy to cull. As it turns out, these sheep were armed with concealed weapons. The ‘sheep’ were able to engage the BGs and win the day. This is not a one-time occurrence, but rather happens time and time again to the BGs. Many of these events are not reported to the police b/c no one is injured in the encounter. Now the BGs are worried, they no longer can tell at a glance who is a soft target and who is a hard target. They can’t tell sheep from sheepdogs. Naturally, they assume that many of the sheep are really sheepdogs in disguise. The BGs either move elsewhere to rape and pillage or get jobs in the food service industry. This is how the actions of the few positively benefit the many. Concealed carry provisions will always force the BGs to wonder when choosing a victim. Some correlation has been made with CCW and lower crime rates for this very reason.

[+Mopar]

If anyone wants to discuss the relationship between gun control and violent crime, there is already plenty of reading in this thread in the off-topic section.

[+bradandangela.com]

I carry a gun just because I can.

[+agentblue]

Yes, I carry while geocaching. I've got a Keltec P11 (which I love btw...). But I'm also a LEO and having that badge to flash goes a long way for such a situation. In response to the multiple Canadians and individuals overseas...guns are a long held, and closely guarded right here. I'm sure I could make all kinds of generalizations about American culture based on that, but that would be off topic. Many of us grow up around guns, shoot often or often enough, and for us (generally) are really no big deal. Besides, as the saying goes "if you outlaw firearms, only outlaws will have them" or at least in America might be true. Anyway yes, I carry while caching because it is my Constitutional right, and because I see first hand every day the kind of people there are out there. I am not a victim and won't allow myself to become one! (Please excuse my slightly off-topic rant. I'm done for the moment....)

 

Nate

[+Pork King]

No "pretty much" about it. In California, you CANNOT carry a concealed weapon without a permit. Doing so is a misdomeaner at best, and a felony at worst.

 

Concealed weapon permits are issued by your local Law Enforcement entity (Chief or Sherriff). Some Towns and counties are very good aboutr granting permits (rural area especially) while other places are nearly impossible to get a permit granted in.

 

You have to be able to show a need to carry a concealed weapon. "Because I want to" is rarly an acceptable reason.

 

To get a concealed weapons permit, you have to take a class, qualify with an acceptable score at a range, and pay several fee. It isn't cheap. It tough to get a permit because it is a huge responcibility to carry a loaded weapon on your person.

 

Contact your local Chief or Sherriff and see what is required (many municipal websites list the info).

 

Ed

 

ps: Yes, I carry when I'm caching, but then again, I carry everywhere.

Hmm, here in Mississippi, you can carry a loaded one in your vehicle, and a permit only requires background check, 4 months of waiting, and $127 dollars. Your driver's licence than becomes your permit.

[kb7rzf]

No "pretty much" about it. In California, you CANNOT carry a concealed weapon without a permit. Doing so is a misdomeaner at best, and a felony at worst.

 

Concealed weapon permits are issued by your local Law Enforcement entity (Chief or Sherriff). Some Towns and counties are very good aboutr granting permits (rural area especially) while other places are nearly impossible to get a permit granted in.

 

You have to be able to show a need to carry a concealed weapon. "Because I want to" is rarly an acceptable reason.

 

To get a concealed weapons permit, you have to take a class, qualify with an acceptable score at a range, and pay several fee. It isn't cheap. It tough to get a permit because it is a huge responcibility to carry a loaded weapon on your person.

 

Contact your local Chief or Sherriff and see what is required (many municipal websites list the info).

 

Ed

 

ps: Yes, I carry when I'm caching, but then again, I carry everywhere.

Hmm, here in Mississippi, you can carry a loaded one in your vehicle, and a permit only requires background check, 4 months of waiting, and $127 dollars. Your driver's licence than becomes your permit.

Greetings all,

 

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I carry usually during the summer months when I'm out in the hills. Lots of rattle snakes here and when Im out with the kids, I like to know if we hear something or see something rattlin, I can deal with it if I need to. I also have a CCW permit, but normally do not carry when I'm caching in town.

[uperdooper]

here in michigan, you have to take a class, where 6 of the 8 hours they tell how to get out of dangerous situations without using your gun. they also drill it into your head how much in lawyer fees and lord knows what else will happen to you if you do shoot someone. then there is qualifying at a range, 200.00 in fees, you are fingerprinted for an FBI background check, and your local record is checked. if you pass everything then you get your permit. out of over 7,000 permits issued in genesee cty, MI. not a single person has commited a crime while legally carrying a concealed hand gun.

[+bradandangela.com]

Uper, that sounds pretty similar to the way it works in Texas. Since I am recently married I have had to stop carrying a gun in the car, otherwise I have to remember to move it back and forth when my wife drives the car since she does not have her license.

[+Snoogans]

here in michigan, you have to take a class, where 6 of the 8 hours they tell how to get out of dangerous situations without using your gun. they also drill it into your head how much in lawyer fees and lord knows what else will happen to you if you do shoot someone. then there is qualifying at a range, 200.00 in fees, you are fingerprinted for an FBI background check, and your local record is checked. if you pass everything then you get your permit. out of over 7,000 permits issued in genesee cty, MI. not a single person has commited a crime while legally carrying a concealed hand gun.

 

Uper, that sounds pretty similar to the way it works in Texas. Since I am recently married I have had to stop carrying a gun in the car, otherwise I have to remember to move it back and forth when my wife drives the car since she does not have her license.

Lol, I wasn't gonna look at this thread until B&A posted. But since I'm meeting them Sunday.....

 

I teach that class (among others) in Texas. Sounds like Michigan has a program similar to ours. I spend 3 hours on conflict deescalation/prevention and psychological & financial impact of a justified shooting. Shoot someone and look at 50k (average) outta pocket even if you get no-billed. Ouch! I hardly ever carry......

 

People forget the laws within a week or two, but they never forget that 50k.

Edited December 22, 2004 by Snoogans

[+Team Tigger International]

I see no need to carry a gun , I see a snake I leave it alone , same with any wild animal . As they appear to be more afraid of me then visa versa. Come across someone with a gun ( bad guy ) most likely if I have a gun to , it is not gonna help neither of us . Thats just my take on things . I personally do not care for guns. Even though I know "Guns don't kill people , people kill people" . I grew up in a house full of guns , my Dad was a hunter as is my brother . Thats what they enjoy doing so be it . If you want to carry a gun that is your "Right" . Its just not something I chose to do.

 

Star of Team Tigger International

[+Renegade Knight]

Geez! Guns and geocaching, eh? Must be an American thing? Not an issue up here, eh?

Yepp, it must an american thing. It is forbidden to carry weapons in my country, and the risk of running into a maniac is quite low, since they are also forbidden to carry weapons

Your country is one of the few I'd consider living in outside the USA for a lot of reasons you already know. You guys are blessed with a good culture. Sometimes I'm amazed we have parts of the world where no matter what they can't get past war lords, slavery, and a lot of other nasties.

 

One thing we do have more of in the USA is wackjobs. Making something agasint the law doesn't make it not happen. It gives you a tool to punish offenders. If you ban crime (oh wait almost every country does that...) it still happens.

 

Maybe part of the entire gun thing is that the USA is such a young country compaired to most of the rest of the world. It was built by citizens who formed a militia and revolted against their King. I'll lays odds that the UK had long since used up most of it's lands, and had limited opportunity to hunt and so on. People flat out already didn't have much use for them. that is until they were conscripted. It the USA we still have a lot of land and anybody can hunt virtually anywhere with minor effort. Enough rant.

[+clearpath]

In the context of the thread, Geocachers packing heat in dangerous and/or remote areas, I am hoping that we can generally rule out various kinds of intoxication. Mental derangement is somewhat more likely, as it is a characteristic of the Geocaching personality. Hopelessness and depression can be brought on by excessively camouflaged wilderness caches, but it's generally short-term...

 

LOL!!! Yeah, and lets not forget the hopelessness and depression brought on by lamppost micros ...

 

The discussion here is not whether or not private gun possession is a social good, it's about whether and under what circumstances geocachers arm themselves. The responses have been quite level-headed.

 

Yep, I agree ...

 

Seems to me you're looking only at the negative aspect of the human version of "fight or flight."

 

Mostly, I was poking a little fun at my buddy, Mopar's rattlesnake analogy ...

 

Rational, sober, and particularly well-trained humans employ their intellectual powers to tailor the response to the situation, using less-than-lethal force when appropriate.

 

Please don't use the words 'intellectual, lethal, and force' in the same sentence ...

 

Once the snake exhausts his intimidation ritual, if the apparent threat still exists, he strikes. Doesn't matter whether it's a curious toddler or a stumbling hiker--it gets bit.

 

Yeah, I hear snakes particularly enjoy striking permit carrying, gun toting, rational intellects, that like to geocache ...

[+Mule Ears]

Please don't use the words 'intellectual, lethal, and force' in the same sentence

 

OK, I'll try to avoid it in the future. But I don't think you're going to win any popularity contests with the various law-enforcement types who're following this thread.

 

As for the affinity that rattlesnakes have developed for certain kinds of cachers, don't I know it! This past August I encountered rattlers on every hike, including one on a steep slope in a crevice a few inches from my head. Did not shoot any of them (other than opto-digitally).