Fire Dept.use Search & Rescue etc. Help,Advice, Please

January 16, 2003

Hello AAll,

I'm new to the Board & GPS itself, "Please Bear With Me" --- I've been give the task to find which handheld gps would be suitable for our F.D. use....

The Chief has been approved for a grant for $1500.00 to procure 3-5 gps units for several proposed uses,

(1). Giving co-ordinates to arriving "Med Flight"

Helocopter @ auto accidents, Industrial entrapment & injury etc.

(2). Searching for lost hunters or children etc.

(3). Locationg medical emergencies in woodsy or out of the way locations, etc.

(4).Woods fires, locating & informing the county plane & other tankers & breakers how to approach,etc.

And any other uses that pop up form time to time.

My problem is we already have a LOT of STUFF to be up on as it is. We are a small Dept and no one can specialize in any one thing -( you basically take whatever you need for the emergency, Firetruck, Ladder, Ambulance, Rescue Boat, Cribbing Trailer, Jaws, Infrared Camera,Survival Suits, Rescue Sleds,Flammable Gas Meters, Co Detectors, etc.)

What I'm saying is we All do Everything, unlike big cities where you sometimes are basically assigned to one piece all the time, & you get to be Really Good on every piece on that truck.

We have to be familiar with ALL the Apparatus & Tools & Toys available and it's all different & The Stuff is even in different compartments, --No 2 Trucks are set up the Same Way....

We're not griping, it's just the way it is in a smaller dept.

So, that being said --- I'm sure a couple of us will probably really get into GPS & play w/ it a lot BUT most of the guys are going to want it Dependable But SIMPLE to use.

We will ALL have to be familiar with it to at least perform it's basic functions. That's where the Simple comes in. But we know GPS can be so full of good information it would be a shame not to have units capable of a little more than the very basics......

Can you please help me. I will value your opinions very much.

Thanks a lot in advance, Paul

January 16, 2003

Your bound to get lots of advice but I'll give it a shot.

I'd go with Magellen Meridians. The maybe better choice would be the Garmin V's. The Garmins do have autorouting, which may come in handy for you. But the following would be why I'd reccomend the Meridians.

1. Self contained antenna. Nothing to break.

2. Ability to expand memory. With your budget you could purchase ample extra memory. The "expert" on these (you?) could make sure the memory got installed and loaded up with all the maps your guys may need, including topos. The non experts would then be able with less training call up all the maps that have been pre loaded.

3. Great reception, even under tree cover.

4. Slightly larger buttons, may be easier to use with gloves on?

Well hope that helps a little. My reccomendation would be to find a local cacher, or GPS expert to sit down with in person. You may find needs and uses that you didn't even know you had, by going through all your options with an expert.

January 16, 2003

http://www.gpscity.com/products/garmin/rino120.html

The reasons I am looking at this are:

1) has a built in mapping feature - if you have an idea of the area you are going to you can upload that area into it's memory.

2) you can communicate with FRS to other units while searching.

3) you can transmit your positions and coordinate your search patterns accordingly.

I have no idea of how durable it would be in the field, but it packs many features into one package taking up less space.

I'm not Lost, my GPS says I'm right here....no over here......no over here.

6.4k · January 16, 2003

Basic Yellow Etrex

Simple to use. I use both Garmin and Magellan, and I find the Garmin user interface more intuitive then the Maggies

Compact. alot smaller then the Meridians

Inexpensive around $100 each

rugged

Bright Yellow! easy to see=harder to lose

Unless your cover a larger wilderness area, the maps and stuff of the higher priced GPSrs are probably of little use. You already know your way around town, you dont need a auto-routing unit to tell you how to drive there. Justs adds cost and complexity. You're already carrying real radios, the FRS of the Rinos is too unreliable for life and death work.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

January 16, 2003

First you need to clarify exactly what, when, why, and how you need them. Then you research the market and and pick the units that best meet those needs.

Then consider how badly do you really need them. 'Keeping up with the joneses' is not a way to run a public agency. You have a responsibility to the taxpayers to not only do the best job possible but also for the least cost. Buying the latest gizmo because the next town has one is not a good reason. What is the best use for that $1500 -- a few GPS units or a training course in the latest EMS and Hazmat techniques? Or replacing an old worn set of turnouts? I work for a government agency and I see a lot of stuff purchased just because it is the latest wrinkle and there is a few dollars left in the budget. These items sit gathering dust in a truck compartment; "We don't know what to use it for but by God we have the latest technology." (My personal opinion is a well-trained and experienced firefighter is a far more useful and valuable asset than the newest tech toy).

I am assuming you have already made these decisions. Canvass other fire departments similar in size and responsibility to yours and see what they use. If they do not yet have any brainstorm with them for additional ideas. You may be able to join with them in a group purchase and get a cheaper price per unit.

Also check out Trimble products. They concentrate on the industrial and professional end of the GPS market. www.trimble.com

========================================

Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk.

January 16, 2003

Cap'n,

Mopar makes an excellent point about the yellow etrex. Cost, color, easy, etc.

But like azmark, I like the Meridian line. You can get one for $130, you can get it in yellow, and I find the maps very useful. It might be handy to be able to tell someone that you're exactly 2 miles due east of the lake without having to pull out a map. The larger buttons may also be important. All of the screens are customizable so you can have as much or as little info as you desire.

They also have large screens (relatively speaking) with one of the screens using larger lettering.

Where abouts in Mass. are you? I'd be happy to bring a couple of units for you to look at.

geospotter

9.2k · January 16, 2003

You're definitely going to want something with detailed maps. This knocks out the lower-end models, such as the yellow eTrex. You're not going to need a lot of memory, just enough to store the road maps of the area you serve. The eTrex Legend would probably give you the most bang for the buck on the Garmin side.

When budgeting, remember to include the cost of the mapping software. That alone can cost as much as a cheap GPS. But it could prove valuable too. If someone injured call in on a cell phone, and they know their location, you can use the mapping software in the firehouse to first determine where they are and the best way to reach them. With an internet connection, you can also call up aerial photos from sites like lostoutdoors.com.

January 16, 2003

Hiya...as someone who purchased a Garmin V last year and LOVES it let me say this. I LOVE IT. As a law enforcement professional recently tasked with cataloging some locations so that we may have coords on hand in the event of needing them for assisting jurisdictions let me say - I LOVE IT. As a law enforcement professional who has been to other jurisdictions after a natural disaster where street signs were no longer there and we had to navigate around an unfamiliar area let me say...well, you get it. I like ALL the features of the Garmin V and see the moving map, the autorouting and ease of use - along with computer interfacing to be well worth the price. My GV is my personal unit but I like the ruggedness of it and all the features. If you would like to know more e-mail me, I have left certain information out for obvious reasons. I am not a GPS guru or anything but have tried to teach myself enough to get around. Thanks & BE SAFE.

Does the walker choose the path, or the path, the walker? - Sabriel, by Garth Nix

2.7k · January 16, 2003

Garmin Etrex from the yellow on up would be fine. I use the Vista with my work with the USFS and it has earned its keep.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

38.2k · January 16, 2003

If you're going to be using it to search for lost children, hunters and med emergencies in the woods, you will probably want a unit that has a mapping, particularly a topo map.

As far as ease of use the Garmin Legend should fit your criteria. It has a simple to learn user interface. If you want a little more bang for your buck, the Magellan Sportrak Map or Pro would be the way to go.

Don't forget to budget for the mapping software.

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

1k · January 16, 2003

Do you want the GPS unit to be able to give you turn-by-turn directions to your destination and have the capability to re-route you if you are forced to detour because of washed-out roads, downed power lines, etc? If so, I think the only consumer-grade handheld unit currently available is the Garmin GPS V. You can enter street addresses or intersections directly into the unit, and it will quickly give you the quickest or shortest route. You can quickly select specific places (restaurants, gas stations, stores, etc.), and it will guide you to them. If someone calls in specific coordinates, you can quickly create a waypoint, and the unit will route you there.

If you don't need this feature, there are many good units to choose from. I recommend that you evaluate several; but be sure to include the GPS V among them.

Worldtraveler

January 16, 2003

for all the reasons stated above. Mapping may be of little value to you if you're already familiar with the area, but being able to pan the map and give an exact distance from your location to a known waypoint would seem to me to be pretty useful. It's pretty versatile (designed to be used with one hand) and the memory is more than sufficient for mapping software uploads for your area.

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

1.1k · January 16, 2003

From your description and comments a simple non mapping handheld is really where to start right now. Which one well there's many but of importance is whatever you acquire is that those who have to use them KNOW how to use them properly.

A simple handheld will/can do much of the stuff apart from having advanced mapping and direction features and that's probably the direction to be aiming for but right now just keep it simple and include some training.

I'm aware of emergency services who have sent rescue helicopters in the wrong direction (actually to the previous emergency site) as users have simply turned the GPSr on, not waited for a position fix, read off the coords (old ones) to the radio operator and simply dropped the GPS back in the vehicle.

Some pilots generally have a tendancy not to solely take coords for granted (when dealing with different levels of expertise) but put those coords in context with physical features and might come back with something like "confirm that is approx XX miles south of wherever" as a check.

These cases as above were a result of well meaning community groups who donate this type of equipment to the local rescue services but forget that there is some training required. A GPSr is not simply an "appliance" and requires a little more than plugging it in and turning it on.

Cheers, Kerry.

I never get lost everybody keeps telling me where to go

24.7k · January 16, 2003

From where I stand the Garmins are easier to use than the Magellans. They have a more user friendly interface. I say this based on having seen both work side by side. Not to mention running into a guy who was sitting near a geocache that we spoke with. "I like this geocaching, as soon as I figure out how to use my GPS I'm going to start" Me half in jest - "So you must have bought a Megallan". "Yes, how did you know?"

If you do a lot of work under tree cover, that rules out certain antanii types (like used in the eTrex) Other antanai types are better (like the one used in the Magellan Sport Track Pro and the Garmin GPS V).

Whatever you get make sure it supports what I call a rubber band map. That is on the map page (and yes get a unit that supports maps. Once they are downloaded you can forget about them, but they will show up on the map screen) a line will be drawn between you and the point you are heading too. This helps in navigating.

Some Magellans do not update this line as you move. New ones may have ROM upgrades that let you do this. Garmins as far as I know all do.

Wherever you go there you are.

24.7k · January 16, 2003

One other comment since it could apply. Pay attention to battery life. It's one thing to lose your power when you are geocaching.

Wherever you go there you are.

January 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
From where I stand the Garmins are easier to use than the Magellans. They have a more user friendly interface. I say this based on having seen both work side by side.

Which Magellan were you watching? I have two and they have different menu structures. The menues on the Meridian are extremely easy to use.

I have also used Garmins and Mags side by side and always choose the Magellan (of course, I have more experience with them so I guess it's natural).

Cap'n, regarding the software. Contact Garmin/Magellan and explain who you are. My guess is they have a municipal discount plan.

Renegade Knight makes a good point about battery life. My guess is that you will be looking for a GPS "kit" to include a case of some sort that will hold extra batteries as well as protecting the unit.

geospotter

EDIT: Typo

[This message was edited by geospotter on January 16, 2003 at 04:16 PM.]

January 16, 2003

for what its worth i would suggest a basic unit. aside from being cheaper and easier to use i wouldnt think that the mapping features would be needed. on your way to an emergency are you going to designate one man to use the gps and scroll through the maps looking for landmarks on mapping software that isnt nearly as accurate as you paper maps? i would think that your use of gps would be to find out where you are and all gps do that. to me the answer comes down to performance and durability. as to which of the basic units better suit you needs i dont know ive only used the magellans on a regular basis.

1.2k · January 16, 2003

I would have to suggest the Rino 120. Even if you don't use the radio you can still use the Position reporting with other personnel plus it has mapping with 8mb of mapping.

1.4k · January 16, 2003

Our department doesn't issue GPSr units to patrol level officers as a general rule, however a friend of mine who is assigned to patrol/enforcement and is also a member of the bomb squad told me last week that the EOD team just acquired a couple of a Garmin units along with some other assorted electronic goodies from the Feds. One of the main purposes of the units was so the bomb squad can send their exact location, to the Feds via laptop computers and a wireless, encryted connection. Should our techs encounter something in which they require assistance the Feds can and will literally fly in an ATF EOD member or Army EOD (depending on the device found) directly to the scene. I feel the GPSr units are excellent for this type of operation, since it allows someone who is not familiar with an area go directly to the area in question. I have seen many posts recently regarding SAR and GPSr units for use with these teams. I am a member of our department's search and rescue team and we do not use such units 'on the job'. I do think they may be useful for doing grid square searches, but they are not required to effect a SAR operation. When our area was struck by a F5 tornado, they may have proved useful to help guide other agencies that responded to know exactly where the damage was located, but once again, they aren't totally necessary as you can always fall-back on paper map books. Now, if a hiker is injured and has a GPSr and is able to somehow report their position to SAR teams the GPSr would prove to be invaluable in finding them and getting them quick medical condition. As a law enforcement officer, I do think GPSr units can serve a place during SAR, but they aren't the magic 'cure all'. If your fire department can afford them, they most likely could come in handy. Out of curiousity, is your department rural or urban in nature and is your department paid or volunteer? As a deputy, who is responsible for for working in unincorporated areas, I mainly work with volunteer departments with only a few paid firemen who depend on volunteers to operate. In the past when we have had private plane crashes and other such incidents, the firemen were invaluable but had to rely on the sheriff's department and other agencies to aid in the search. I have to somewhat agree with what another poster stated about where to spend the money. If money is tight, I feel that smaller fire departments/districts would be better served to spend the dollars on firefighting/medical training and on equipment such as extraction tools or better trucks. Anyways, that's my thoughts on the subject... as usual, your milage may vary

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

January 16, 2003

Thankyou All,

I Really do appreciate all the valuable responses.

I think I personally will love using the GPS both on & off the job.(I plan to buy my own also, in time).

It seems that,----

The E-Trex basic model,

The Magellan Sporttrak Map & Pro series,

The E-Trex Legend,

are the most recommended.

I surmise that the Rino's have questionable reliability in the radio area & yes we do carry our own.

The E-Trex series have problems in heavy tree cover?

I'll look hard into these suggestions and report later on my progress. I find studing hard w/o being able to see & feel the units themselves so it will take some time to check all out.

(There are sooo manny)

Any more suggestions will be happily rec'd.

Thank's again, your help is invaluable. Paul

P.S.

Dave 45,

Keeping up with Jones's actually falls under the Chief's jurisdiction, it's not up to us Jakes to make decisions of any kind!

We do train & refresh on EMS,Haz Mat,Jaws, etc. in everyday life @ the station.And the GUYS are the ones's who bought the 1'st De-Fib, Jaws, Camera, etc., NOT the Town.

This new venture with the GPS units is being done ---so we are told by the Chief---thru a Grant of some sort from some Gov't Agency, Perhaps it YOURS. Thanks for your input too.

January 16, 2003

Hey Cap'n

At some point you will probably want to use your local GIS databases with your GPS units. The local GIS databases can give you the variety of useful info such as; power lines, voltages, pole numbers, Natural Gas lines, Water mains, Correct and accurate road locations, address and ownership as well as others things like determining evacuation areas and routes.

Some consumer model units are capabale of loading some of this data. The Garmins have more programs availabe to bridge GIS into the GPS but is generally a pain to do so, and very limited. The up side is though that the comsumer models can work as a GPS engine for a laptop or Tablet computer. The seemless solution is with companies producing professional products such as Trimble. They probably already have an off the shelf solution for your needs. The price though will be much, much higher than your current budget.

January 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n:
Hello AAll,

I'm new to the Board & GPS itself, "Please Bear With Me" --- I've been give the task to find which handheld gps would be suitable for our F.D. use....

The Chief has been approved for a grant for $1500.00 to procure 3-5 gps units for several proposed uses,

Paul

Paul,

I'm a search and recovery diver for a local team that does, obviously, underwater searchs and recovery's for our local, city, state, county, and on occasion, federal law enforcement agencies. We use GPSr's to mark shore locations for searches that we do. We will mark multiple locations on shore so that we can do some triangulation to go back to a particular area to continue a search or to map an area for use in court.

They are particularly useful to mark areas that might need to go back to that don't have what we would consider "permanant" items that we can use as markers for our search areas. As an example, we might not have a good permanant item handy that marks the position on shore where we entered the water to begin our search. In this case we would drive a rebar pin into the ground, completely, and mark the waypoint of the position. Should we need to come back at a later date, we would use the waypoint to get us in the neighborhood and then a metal detector to locate the pin. Now we have our starting original starting point.

Mike

Gsdvr

Huntsville

January 16, 2003

I have not read through all the other posts but undoubtedly they give good advice...

What I might consider doing if it were me is get a unit that you can configure down to the most basic screens. Basically one that tells exactly where you are standing, kind of "we are here" . And the one that points to a predetermined spot (a waypoint) "we want to get there".

This keeps learning curve very simple and you can train a person to use these two functions in about 15 minutes...

Later as you get more into the units add in map functions. ( Lat. & Lon. are corner of 10th & Bush on map)

It goes back to the KISS principle, "Keep It Simple Stupid"....

Dale

--------------------------------------------------------

I'm Diagonally Parked, In A Parallel Universe.

--------------------------------------------------------

January 16, 2003

You may want to stay way from the plain etrex because the whole lack of a way to move around the screen makes it seem harder than it actually is, also it has less signal gain due to the smaller anntana in it. The later etrex series also have the same size of an anntana, but the have a cursur control (relibilty of it is questionable).

The reports about magellan units is that they can often give a bad position in low reception areas. This is most noticable while moving, but some of the magellan units are also know to give pretty good position fixes while stationary.

Also you may want to get units with less bells and whitsles because its just more money and something else to get broken. In this sence I would recommend an older unit like the gps 12, or the less than waterproof mag 315. They have proven over time that they are relible and cheap (and farily easy to use).

Wyatt W.

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

9.4k · January 16, 2003

I'd suggest a combination of units for whatever uses you need.

First, based on your requirements, I would suggest 2 or 3 Rino 120's. One would be on the helicopter, and 1-2 (or more) on the ground. The reasoning is you can send audible signals to the helicopter unit which will send your current coordinates to them. Considering the helicopter is in the air you'll have a better range between units (as compared to ground level signals). It also means 0 mistakes notifying other users of your location.

They also have excellent antennas, and keep a decent signal clipped to your belt.

My second suggestion would be to have a Garmin V as a car unit, since it does excellent turn-by-turn directions, but I hesitate a bit since it is extremely slow when it considers routes. For an emergency situation, glancing at a map would be faster.

Otherwise, I agree that a Meridian Gold or eTrex Yellow would work great. However, the iQue unit looks promising and will be out soon. There's also the Geko which looks as though it may replace the yellow eTrex. I might suggest you hold out for the Geko since it is newer technology and small (since you have all that gear).

I haven't been happy with the SportTrak, which I've been testing in the past week. The Meridian series is pretty impressive though, but the Garmin's UI is easier to understand.

Go Rino.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

9.4k · January 16, 2003

One more push for the Rino. We had them Snowboarding and Skiing. I had mine attached to my backpack and inside the top pocket. It kept signal on the side of the mountain all day. Amazing piece of technology.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

January 17, 2003

I think the Garmin V may be a bad unit for rescue work, since it involves more time to set upand configure for the people that are not use to it. and as some one else said the anntana seems like it could be broken when being handled roughly.

As for the rino's it may be hard to get one to the helo pilot since the pilot may be from a diffrent area and just flyes into the area when needed (I am assuming the helo is from a large hospital not neccesarly in your town/county). Also the FRS channels are open to every one, and every one can talk on them so this may also limit there use.

The geko will be smaller as Jermey said, but at what cost to performance? Also it is untested by any one, and risking lives on new products that have not had most of the bugs rolled out seems foolish (I feel this way about all consumer GPSr).

Wyatt W.

I wish I had someting positive to say.

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

January 17, 2003

I spent 5 years in the CF Reserves (about 10 years ago before GPS). I have a Garmin Venture and a recently purchased Sportrak Map.

I don't think that you need to spend a huge amount of money on super high tech GPS units. On the contrary, it probably makes more sense to have more of them, even one per guy if you can.

IF you are doing SAR you probably need to run out the door and wouldn't really have time to upload anyways so mapping is probably not much use.

While the Garmin interface is pretty, the Magellan PHYSICAL interface (ie the buttons) are much easier to use on most of their GPS units.

One feature that I would highly recommend on the Magellan Sportrak MAP and PRO is the ability to have both a Primary and Secondary DATUM and Coordinate system. On the location display you just hit right or left on the pad and it displays your location in secondary format at the bottom. This would be very useful because on one hand you probably would have NAD27/NAD83 maps with UTM on them that you would use within your ground crew and then when talking to Aircraft they are probably using Lat/Long WGS84. With the Sportrak both are displayed on one screen.

Another nice feature on the Sportrak Map is the ability to turn off Nav screens to unclutter the display.

I do like one suggestion of having a high end mapping GPS in each truck. At the very least stick on in the Chiefs truck/car since he is the one leading you to the fire anyways.

I disagree with the Rhino idea though. It would be fine IF you didn't already have radios. I also doubt you have a dedicated helicopter or pilot for your department so there is probably a high possibility of a Rhino being wasted.

Remember, all you probably really need is to display your location and perhaps switch quickly to other datums. I'm not sure if the base sportrak does the primary/secondary coordinate system or not but the Sportrak Map/Pro do. All the other bells and whistles will probably be wasted for the most part. In an emergency I highly doubt you want to fart around with mapping and routes, especially since you're working in your own backyard!

Cheers,

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

1.4k · January 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:
I have a Garmin Venture and a recently purchased Sportrak Map.

There has been much discussion of the difference between the Garmin Patch Antenna, and the Magellan Quad-Helix antenna. Some say the Magellan keeps a better lock under tree cover. Others say it is just because the Garmin tells you quicker that it is in trouble, while the Magellan TRIES to keep going, lying to you until it can't make it up on its own anymore. I am not sure there is much difference. Being a ham operator, I know hams prefer the patch over the Quad-Helix for satellite work. But that is in front of a 3 ft (1m) dish. The quad-helix isn't real popular with hams. Dunno why. Just food for thought.

My request. MRCPU.... if you would sir, as you use them, let us know which one really works better, and why. I almost got a Sporttrack Pro for Christmas, but my Venture has an easier interface, works with one hand, longer battery life, better display, and smaller size. In the desert, I do not have a problem with losing lock. Please keep us up on your findings.

Thanks.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

9.4k · January 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:
I disagree with the Rhino idea though. It would be fine IF you didn't already have radios.

Good point. Though my recommendation was not for the voice capability.

Here's the issue. You have people on the ground telling people in the air where you are. Considering the noise it would be easier to just transmit your coordinates to the bird in the sky. The biggest issue with rescue operations is communication, and GPS combined with radio does an excellent job of removing the error.

For civillian grade GPSrs, the Rino does the trick.

Continuing that line of reasoning, I would probably recommend investigating the combination of GPS/APRS, or packet radio. I contacted these folks about some of their packages, but at the time I didn't have the discretionary income to purchase and test their products. I also found a product that connects with an existing radio and can transmit your coordinates from a GPS that may work well.

Thinking more about this I would recommend a unit that is capable of an external antenna (depending on your terrain features). As for the Geko I would definitely hold off for testing to see how well it fares. However, every new unit from Garmin has had improved satellite reception.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

January 17, 2003

Do you know of any old time cachers, that might be well versed in many of the Units in the Mass. area? Someone that may know of some of the good specialty stores in town that would be able to demo many of the units?

Just a thought, else try reposting in the regional forums.

AZMark

January 17, 2003

Hello again,

I'm sure glad for all the advice but some of it goes right over my head.(I'll probably understand it all better once I get acquainted with a unit).

Anytime we request Med-Flight they usually come from Plymouth Airport or Logan, both of which are approx 20 miles. They have all their own Navigation gear thou I can see Jeramy's point of being able to key a mike & send my co-ordinates.

Thanks to all.

We have use for Med Flight approx. 5-15 times a year & usually we have them land @ already specified Landing Zones. However, quite a number of times we have them land right on the highway. (Commuters love that).... (I've been caught in traffic myself -so I know the frustration).

We had one just last week where a full size pick-up was cut off & ended up against a tree facing the other way down the embankment - the passenger got out by himself but the driver was pinned,(Tree against Door) & we had a lenghty extrication to free him. Poor guy was awake all the time too. We flapped the roof & did all the procedures we are trained to do & it went well but it was a delicate operation on the inside of the vehicle. Med Flight landed right on the highway that nite & flew him to N.E. Medical.

That night we could have called in our co-ordinates but I'm sure they would have found us anyway with all the lights etc.

I believe it all started a few years back when a hunter had a heart attack in the woods & they had a GPS unit & cell phone but no emergency service in the area had one to use. This is one of the few cases but if it could save one life it would be worth it.... We got to the man & worked on him just the same but it took longer to do so naturally & The Golden Hour they talk about was ticking.

Our terrain cosists of Ponds, Swamps, a couple Rivers & Brooks & a lot of Woods & a lot of Trees--- a lot of cover in the summer, if this helps.

Enough for now, Thanks again & keep it coming, I'm starting to catch on.

We have to buy the units by March according to the Gov.Grant.

Thanks, Paul

January 17, 2003

Hello Cap'n Paul,

I live in central CT and have Garmin Streetpilot III's and Garmin GPS V's. I am not a dealer but I would be happy to show you how they work so you can make up your own mind. If you want to make th e trip, just send an email through this web site and we'll hook up. Bye for now, RangerRick

January 17, 2003

And I'll bring a couple of Magellans. Sounds like a great idea.

Now, who's going to bring the coffee?

geospotter

January 17, 2003

As a firefighter, I guess I take a different approach than some people… The number one thing you need is something that is “Firefighter Proof”! I think the Meridian Series fits that the best. Why?

1. Large Screen and the unit is a little larger so

it would be easier to hold with

2. Key’s are named not symbols

3. It’s waterproof/floats and is submersible for

30 minutes at 1 meter

4. You can get a topographic map

5. Sun/Moon display shows you the location of the

sun and moon for easy navigation

6. Works better than most under tree cover

I would look at the Gold, but… The platinum has a couple of features that could be nice

1. Electronic compass, so you don’t need a

separate compass

2. Temperature and barometer (good for Hazmat and

long rescues)

I have a Sportrack Pro and love it. If were purchasing one for our FD, I would still choose one of the Meridians.

The talk about the Rino's did start me thinking about something. The FRS is useless for fire department communications, but it's not a bad idea to have a couple in case you need to rescue someone who is lost and has FRS! You can buy a cheap FRS radio just about anyplace now.

January 17, 2003

I just wanted to thank Geospotter & Ranger Rick & all you guys? for your offers of assistance & genuine caring attitude.

Thanks, Paul

January 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n:
I believe it all started a few years back when a hunter had a heart attack in the woods & they had a GPS unit & cell phone but no emergency service in the area had one to use.

I had to call 911 on a crazy driver* a few months ago. At the end of the call I asked the 911 operator what, if anything she could do if I were to give her a lat/lon, say if I was out in the woods. She replied that their system doesn't handle that at all!!!

I was suprised because I figured that at the very least they should be able to enter it in their mapping software. Guess I was expecting too much.

*(We were on an undivided highway 5 lanes wide with the centre lane for left turns. This IDIOT in a Ford SUV was tailgating everyone and weaving in and out of traffic. He finally decided to turn his stupidity up a knotch and use the centre lane to pass!!!!! If someone coming the other way had decided to make a left at that moment people would have died. He was close enough in front of us that me, my wife and our three kids would have been involved too! Needless to say I was very angry with the a$$h0L3. When I called the provincial police *OPP number they told me to hang up and call 911 because that highway wasn't theirs to patrol. In the end the guy never got very far ahead of me so he risked all our lives for nothing. I'm pretty sure he got away too because I saw him get onto the 427 "interstate")

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

January 18, 2003

Rob,

I'm sure glad that driver lives in Canada!

But he probably emegrated -? from massachusetts.

Our State P.D. have a helicopter W/ GPS but I don't think the regular cruisers have anything except Lojack etc.

Mean people should'nt breed.

Paul

January 18, 2003

I would have to vote for the etrex. They are cheap but above all VERY simple. Having active background in Search & Rescue, Hospital based EMS, & Volunteer Fire/Rescue I understand where you are comming from. Depending on how strict your grant funds are the rest of that $1500 could be well spent. Depending on how involved your department is in doing Search & Rescue (and level of training) I would not want to send untrained (in land nav) resources into the woods with only a GPS. If your grant allows look at spending the extra cash on some compasses, USGS topo maps of your first due, & maybe SARTECH II training for your members.

James Hamilton

K9 Dexter (The Search Mutt)

K9 Savannah (The drooly bloodhound)

January 18, 2003

I was pres. of a rual fire department for several years. I wish I could have had one then!!!!

One piece of advice... If I may...

After you get settled on a unit, ask around here and see if you can get an experienced cacher (experienced in that model) to come out to your station and give a few hours of demo usage. It could save a life or get someone rescued much quicker IF your whole team REALLY knows how to use one when they need to. PLUS, you can broadcast a GPSr location over your radios to your firefighters or local volunteers to help gather or assign them to a special location. But these are less useful if everyone can't use them well enough to do so while running on adrenaline. ... thus the recommended SIMINAR by an experienced cacher.

Edited in: I see (had I read all posts) you have some great talent already in the wings.. GOOD IDEA, handing out GPSr's!!!!!!!

** The worst suggestion of a life time may be the catalyst to the best idea of the century, don't fail to listen to suggestions.

[This message was edited by poksal on January 18, 2003 at 05:54 PM.]

January 18, 2003

Hi Again gang,

Can we Purchase One Mapping Software CD to use with several of the same GPS units Garmin or Magellan, or will we have to purchase a separate CD for each unit.

Just a budgetary question.

Search RescueDog & Poksal, Thankyou for your advice, I will pass along all that I pick-up.

Paul

January 18, 2003

I believe some software for Garmins is limited to 2 units (can someone please identify/clarify this).

Magellan's license agreement does not include such a restriction.

To be safe, though, I would check with each of the manufacturers.

geospotter

[This message was edited by geospotter on January 18, 2003 at 06:41 PM.]

Fire Dept.use Search & Rescue etc. Help,Advice, Please

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation