A Growing Cito Concern - Clandestine Drug Labs

[+Salvelinus]

I tried a search and couldn't find any other discussion on this subject so I decided to give it a topic. I'm somewhat hesitant to post this because I don't want to stifle a good thing.

 

I recently attended a safety committe meeting for the agency I work for (PA Fish and Boat Commission). One of the topics we discussed was the danger in coming across discarded trash from home drug labs. This is a very serious and growing concern in Pennsylvania. In fact, employees from the PA DCNR, PA Game Commission, and PA Fish and Boat Commission are now receiving training on how to identify and deal with trash from these drug labs.

 

This discared trash from met-amphetemine labs is normally illegally dumped in the woods and can be potentially lethal. It looks just like normal discarded everyday items such as tupperware containers, coolers, glass and plastic bottles, old propane tanks, match packs, etc... One of the major chemicals used in homemade production of these drugs is ammonous hydroxide used in farming fertilizers. If you get a good enough wiff of this stuff you will be lucky to take three steps before you collapse. Much of the discarded trash from these labs will have varying amounts of ammonous hydroxide on, or it it.

 

There has been a death where a law enforcement officer opened a cooler and a cloud of ammonous hydroxide hit him. Another man picked up a discarded propane tank with residual ammonous hydroxide on it. He noticed something smelling odd from the tank and he barly got the tank out of the car before he and his kids inhaled enough of the fumes to cause a problem. Luckily the windows were down in the car.

 

The PA State Police says that these clandestine drug labs are growing exponentially in PA and throughout the northeast. Illegal drug production usually expands very rapidly in new areas and may take several years before the activity levels off. Knowing that we as cachers are are in the woods so often, and actively participate in CITO projects, I felt this is worth mentioning to the community. I don't want people to think that the danger is great enough that we should not be caching and doing CITO's. But it is probably a good idea to have a park manager or law enforcement officer, who is trained in identification of this stuff, inspect the trash pile you plan on removing before you actually start removing it.

 

The problem may come in the casual CITO while your caching. All of us have picked up bottles, cans, etc... and I would like to think that most of us still will. However, after hearing this information first hand I felt compelled to share it with others, like geocachers, who may be at a greater risk to the problem. Make your own choice, but sometimes it may be better to be safe than sorry.

 

Moderator: Feel free to cross post this on the General or Northeast forums if you deem important enough.

 

Regards,

Salvelinus

[rasntrumpet]

No need to cross post to geographic fora unluss you do it to all geographic fora.

 

The Northeast is not alone. The South and Southeast are also seeing a smiliar growth in meth labs. I expect every other part of the US is similar. How about the rest of the world?

 

Your warning and concern is well place.

 

Thanks for the info.

Bob

[dantonac]

While I know nothing specific about meth labs, it sounds from the OP like there would be some easy safety measures we can take to reduce/eliminate the risk.

 

A cooler found laying aroung should be an obvious cause for suspiscion as they aren't normally trash people just toss in the woods. Under no circumstances would I suggest opening it.

 

For other trash it would seem OK to place it in a bag and dump it in the nearest trash bin. I don't think I would be inclined to take any trash into my car with me for any reason regardless of the meth threat. Even if this chemical is on the items it sounds like it isn't likely to be lethal unless you are with the stuff in an enclosed place. In the out of doors is sounds like it would be diluted enough with the air that risk is minimal.

 

I am no expert though, this is just how it sounds from my reading of the OP.

[davester]

Being a chemist who has worked with this stuff (legitimately!!) I have to perhaps suggest the story is a geocaching urban legend.

 

Ammonium Hydroxide is nasty stuff, but you'd have have significant prelonged exposure in a confined space before you'd be keeling over inside three steps. The smell nuisance threshold would alert you to it's prescence well before you had a truly harmfu dose.

[+ibycus]

Being a chemist who has worked with this stuff (legitimately!!) I have to perhaps suggest the story is a geocaching urban legend.

 

Ammonium Hydroxide is nasty stuff, but you'd have have significant prelonged exposure in a confined space before you'd be keeling over inside three steps. The smell nuisance threshold would alert you to it's prescence well before you had a truly harmfu dose.

You're right, it does sound like an urban legend. That being said, if one weren't aware of the possibility, and took something like that in to an enclosed space and just thought it 'smelt bad' do you see a possibility of there being the dangers discussed? Would a trash bag provide sufficient protection over the short time that it was in the car to protect the occupants (even if it did 'smell bad').

Normally we dump as much as possible in dumpsters at the site (who wants to carry trash home with them). But I know in some cases there is no dumpster present.

[+BadAndy]

From the Washington state dept of ecology.

 

Department of Ecology News Release - July 14, 2003

 

03-143

Beware of discarded methamphetamine lab waste!

 

OLYMPIA - Summer weather brings more people out of doors, walking, hiking and camping, thereby increasing their chances of stumbling onto a meth-lab dump site.

 

All too often, waste from methamphetamine labs is being dumped along rural and suburban roads, camping areas, public and private forests, and in dumpsters behind businesses and shopping malls. Department of Ecology (Ecology) officials are finding that people are unknowingly coming in contact with meth-lab chemicals and waste while enjoying normal summertime activities or by attempting to be good Samaritans by cleaning up discarded debris near their homes or businesses.

 

In the past, there was more concern about landlords and motel personnel being exposed to abandoned drug-lab waste in rental homes and motel rooms. But as meth labs have gotten more mobile, they're getting closer to everyday people doing everyday things.

 

Through the end of June, Ecology hazardous-materials teams were called to clean up 818 meth-labs and dumpsites. Pierce County reported the highest number of meth-lab, followed by King, Spokane, Thurston, Snohomish and Benton counties.

 

The Ecology Department advises the public to learn how to recognize the signs of a drug lab or dump site. They include propane tanks or other pressurized cylinders; strong ammonia odors; containers of acetone, toluene and Coleman Fuel; starter-fluid spray cans; shredded lithium batteries; Red Devil Lye (drain cleaner); muriatic and/or hydrochloric acid; empty cold-medicine packages or containers; and plastic tubing, glass jars, funnels, coffee filters and hypodermic needles.

 

Some dump sites may have only a few of these items, along with typical household waste.

 

A number of items may look like useful junk that could be re-used, especially propane tanks. But tanks used in manufacturing meth are often corroded and have jury-rigged valves and tubing that can fail, spraying ammonia gas or hydrogen-chloride gas that attacks eyes and lungs. Ecology responders have found fire extinguishers, scuba tanks, soda dispensers and all kinds and sizes of pressurized cylinders used in producing meth. The tanks can be very unstable and must be properly assessed and disposed of by Ecology hazardous-materials responders.

 

Anyone who comes across meth-lab waste should leave the area immediately and contact their local police or sheriff's department.

 

"Meth labs are a serious threat to both the environment and to curious passersby who may start rummaging through the debris left behind," said David Byers, who supervises Ecology's spill responders.

 

In the last few years, the number of meth-lab dumpsites has dramatically increased.

 

"Our responders have collected discarded meth waste from a variety of places in the state, including pristine forest lands to busy urban areas," Byers said. "People should be very careful about picking up any materials from the roadside or other areas that could possibly be from an illegal meth-making operation."

[+Salvelinus]

Being a chemist who has worked with this stuff (legitimately!!) I have to perhaps suggest the story is a geocaching urban legend.

 

Ammonium Hydroxide is nasty stuff, but you'd have have significant prelonged exposure in a confined space before you'd be keeling over inside three steps. The smell nuisance threshold would alert you to it's prescence well before you had a truly harmfu dose.

I can assure you, this is not an Urban Legand. The issue was directly discussed at a PA natural resource agency's health and safety meeting. I was present at that meeting, and the facts I offered were part of the discussion. Additionally, the scores of law enforcement and other agency personel in PA who are now being trained on how to recognize and deal with this type of waste is not based on myth.

While I have not had the training yet, I do know that some of the derivations of ammonium hydroxide and the way it is mixed with other chemicals in the drug making process is the source of the concern.

 

Be that as it may...you can make up your own mind when contemplating the risk to yourself, but please don't accuse this of being a made up story. The issue is very real.

 

Salvelinus

 

Salvelinus

[+Salvelinus]

From the Washington state dept of ecology.

 

Department of Ecology News Release - July 14, 2003

 

03-143

Beware of discarded methamphetamine lab waste!

 

OLYMPIA - Summer weather brings more people out of doors, walking, hiking and camping, thereby increasing their chances of stumbling onto a meth-lab dump site.

 

All too often, waste from methamphetamine labs is being dumped along rural and suburban roads, camping areas, public and private forests, and in dumpsters behind businesses and shopping malls. Department of Ecology (Ecology) officials are finding that people are unknowingly coming in contact with meth-lab chemicals and waste while enjoying normal summertime activities or by attempting to be good Samaritans by cleaning up discarded debris near their homes or businesses.

 

In the past, there was more concern about landlords and motel personnel being exposed to abandoned drug-lab waste in rental homes and motel rooms. But as meth labs have gotten more mobile, they're getting closer to everyday people doing everyday things.

 

Through the end of June, Ecology hazardous-materials teams were called to clean up 818 meth-labs and dumpsites. Pierce County reported the highest number of meth-lab, followed by King, Spokane, Thurston, Snohomish and Benton counties.

 

The Ecology Department advises the public to learn how to recognize the signs of a drug lab or dump site. They include propane tanks or other pressurized cylinders; strong ammonia odors; containers of acetone, toluene and Coleman Fuel; starter-fluid spray cans; shredded lithium batteries; Red Devil Lye (drain cleaner); muriatic and/or hydrochloric acid; empty cold-medicine packages or containers; and plastic tubing, glass jars, funnels, coffee filters and hypodermic needles.

 

Some dump sites may have only a few of these items, along with typical household waste.

 

A number of items may look like useful junk that could be re-used, especially propane tanks. But tanks used in manufacturing meth are often corroded and have jury-rigged valves and tubing that can fail, spraying ammonia gas or hydrogen-chloride gas that attacks eyes and lungs. Ecology responders have found fire extinguishers, scuba tanks, soda dispensers and all kinds and sizes of pressurized cylinders used in producing meth. The tanks can be very unstable and must be properly assessed and disposed of by Ecology hazardous-materials responders.

 

Anyone who comes across meth-lab waste should leave the area immediately and contact their local police or sheriff's department.

 

"Meth labs are a serious threat to both the environment and to curious passersby who may start rummaging through the debris left behind," said David Byers, who supervises Ecology's spill responders.

 

In the last few years, the number of meth-lab dumpsites has dramatically increased.

 

"Our responders have collected discarded meth waste from a variety of places in the state, including pristine forest lands to busy urban areas," Byers said. "People should be very careful about picking up any materials from the roadside or other areas that could possibly be from an illegal meth-making operation."

Thanks for the post BadAndy!

[+ibycus]

Just because people in official looking positions talk about it, doesn't make it true. I'm not saying its not true, just that I'm skeptical. All to often one well meaning person takes a story to heart and spreads it around without bothering to check out the facts first. Now obviously discarded waste from drug manufacture is something to be worried about when CITOing, but you've got to admit the story sounds a little suspicious.

Guy opens a cooler in a park and is almost killed? Guy and family almost killed taking trash out of a local park? I'm also not accusing you of having made it up, its just from an objective standpoint, things seem a little iffy. Almost like the facts have been distorted by the telephone game a little much. There is probably some truth to the story, I'm just not sure how much...

[+MissJenn]

All of us have picked up bottles, cans, etc... and I would like to think that most of us still will. However, after hearing this information first hand I felt compelled to share it with others, like geocachers, who may be at a greater risk to the problem. Make your own choice, but sometimes it may be better to be safe than sorry.

Thanks, Salvelinus.

Thanks, too, to the responders.

 

I, for one, appreciate the even-handed delivery of the original post. It's good info for those who may not have even been exposed to any information regarding this stuff.

 

We can each decide what to believe and make up our own minds about how to act out there in the woods.

[+sept1c_tank]

...We can each decide what to believe and make up our own minds about how to act out there in the woods.

Ain't life grande?!

[+FluteLlama]

Well, I can add this... we found a syringe in the bushes right near a cache in a park in California. And a used condom nearby to it as well.

 

At any rate, it might be a good practice to always wear gloves when you're out caching. Also, I have a special stick I use for GeoCaching, and that is what rakes through the leaves instead of my hands.

 

All it takes is a little common sense about how to protect yourself. Anyone else out there have any practical tips to share? We all could learn from one another's experiences & life-lessons.

 

FluteLlama in Califnornia

[Smaug1]

Salvelinus,

 

Thanks for the heads-up. No matter how one feels, it is always good to have this type of thing in the back of one's mind when doing CITO. It is just another opportunity to trigger our "spider sense".

 

Jeremy

[+TeamK-9]

I put my 100% trust in what Salvenius has said. About once a month or so in the Greater Pittsburgh area, the state police find a meth lab. The state police here treat meth labs as a serious biohazardous threat. Once it is established that a meth lab is present in a home, a security perimeter is set up, and HAZMAT teams are brought in to deal with the stuff.

 

While the "throwaways" of meth production aren't nearly as dangerous, especially in an open area, it's still a threat, and should be treated that way. If you find "garbage" that meets the description of meth lab waste, and or just generally suspicious garbage, you should consider this a warning. I wouldn't call rangers or police unless you were sure, but use your common sense and keep your distance. And maybe stop in the park office on your way out and describe what you saw, and where you saw it, they'll undoubtedly call it in if they too think it's suspicious.

 

But seriously folks, don't take the responsibility or risk upon yourself to dispose of this stuff. Maybe that garbage bag or tupperware you picked up and threw in the garbage wasn't dangerous to you, but think what might happen down the line. The bag may break when thrown into a garbage truck or dumpster, harming a sanitation worker.

 

Please be vigilant, but be careful.

[+CYBret]

About 2 years ago I was caching in a small park on the edge of a town and found several meth "generators." These were 2 liter plastic bottles with plastic hoses attached and a white (or yellowish) substance inside. Here's a picture:

 

 

I took a couple pictures and emailed the cache owner the next day. He called the police and escorted them to the location. They were very appreciative of the help and were somewhat interested in geocaching.

 

This past weekend I was searching for a cache hidden on a bridge on a country road. I searched one side of the bridge and found about 5 Sudifed packets. The coordinates were leading me all over the place and at one point I walked behind a tree and found a package wrapped in a plastic bag. I was fairly sure it wasn't the cache, but curiosity got the best of me and I opened it. Inside was a plastic pitcher with some white stuff in the bottom. Hmmmmmm.

 

I called the owner and he immediately disabled the cache. The next day he brought the sheriff out and they found 3 more of these little packages around the bridge.

 

I'm starting to think a Meth Lab icon on my stats page would be pretty cool.

 

The fact is, this stuff is EVERYWHERE around here. I'm trying to be more aware of what to look for and what to do about it. Pay attention and let someone know if you see something suspicious.

 

Bret

[+MissJenn]

I took a couple pictures and emailed the cache owner the next day.  He called the police and escorted them to the location.  They were very appreciative of the help and were somewhat interested in geocaching.

 

.... [snip]

 

I called the owner and he immediately disabled the cache.  The next day he brought the sheriff out and they found 3 more of these little packages around the bridge.

 

... [snip]

 

The fact is, this stuff is EVERYWHERE around here.  I'm trying to be more aware of what to look for and what to do about it.  Pay attention and let someone know if you see something suspicious.

Egads!! I have not "scored any finds" on a meth lab yet, and thanks to info in this thread, I will know what I have found (if I do find one).

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

Yup -- there are some nasty things in the woods. One of my caches was found with syringes near it, so I had to disable and move it.

 

The best bet is to exercise caution -- when in doubt, don't touch it.

 

My biggest fear is not the garbage of the users and makers, but coming across active grow operations in the deep woods off logging roads. If you find yourself surrounded by tomato plants without tomatos on them -- get out! (I suppose you *could* fill a CITO bag, but I wouldn't recommend it)

Edited January 5, 2005 by Lemon Fresh Dog

[+TresOkies]

I would put it in the "not urban legend" category. I live in one of those areas where meth production and abuse is a booming cottage industry.

 

Several months ago, I saw a propane cylinder discarded along a country road near my home. It had been converted to anhydrous. I called the county sheriff deputy who lives in my town. He called the disposal squad who found the remnants nearby. The deputy told me he knew exactly where the cylinder came from. It was part of a lot that sold at auction this summer about three miles from where I found it. He noticed it because the cylinder was manufactured in 1948 and something like that still in use is a bit odd. It turns out that the person who bought the cylinder went to school with me and the sheriffs deputy.

 

Some of the hysteria about the "death bag" may be a little overdone but I'd err on the side of caution.

 

CYBret, that's a scary photo you've got there. I'm going to start looking out for those things on my travels.

[+johnnyspud]

Looks like some miscommunication going on - meth lab garbage has been around for a long time - we had training on it with the Forest Service in Oregon circa 1992 when we were seeing labs in our forest. Like any chemical dump, you don't want to mess with it - and you want to be able to recognize it. The Washington DEC news release looks like good info for the general public.

 

Re: Urban Legends... I think Davester & Ibycus were referring to the death by cooler.... and I share the skepticism.... (Hazmat certified responder/worker for 12 years)

 

Regardless, good information and something we should think about.

[+NorthWes]

Came across this thread doing initial planning for an Anchorage-area CITO event. I've found the members' club-brand variety of cold capsules 'smoked' under a highway bridge while caching with my daughter north of town here, and have encountered other kinds of haz-mat waste too. Perhaps a good speaker to invite to a local cachers' meeting or as the 'warning speaker' at the start of a CITO event would be a representative from the state or local agency responsible for 'first responder' calls on this kind of stuff. Here in Alaska, the Dept of Environmental Conservation has employees who are available for general information discussions, and the local Fire Dept is delighted to find people who want to know more about recognizing haz-mat waste. I agree with the individual who recommends using a stick and gloves to 'hunt' through the grass & leaves - that's good common sense, isn't it? As one of those asthma & allergy - impaired folks, I hate getting a lungfull of any kind of dust... that's not how I like to have my breath taken away! In any case, thanks to Salvelinus for starting the discussion.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I have a Meth-Lab dump I am working on now.

Part of my COOPERATIVE CONSERVATION CITO.

 

Missouri DNR is helping to rid the Old Water well of the Hazardous Materials.

Some of the main things to look for is ,Red Devil Lye,Heet,and other various chemical bottles.

It is all used in the process's.

We have a big problem here with it,and me being on our CERT Team and this is also our O.E.M.

Office of Emergency Management.

Are being and have been training in these type hazards.

 

It is a big problem and it really does need to be addressed for our personal safeties,we are out here volunteering to clean up the planet,but some things we need to learn to report to the HAZ-MAT Teams.........we are not prepared to handle this !!!!!!!!!!

 

Please do not handle these type materials,report it to your local authorities and have them make the decisions on the proper clean-up.

 

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE AND HAVE FUN..............

NO-----THING IS WORTH YOUR LIFE.

[+Renegade Knight]

I'm working with the Idaho State Police on modifying a class they teach to be specific to geocaching. I've added this to the outline they requested.

[+welch]

... The deputy told me he knew exactly where the cylinder came from. It was part of a lot that sold at auction this summer about three miles from where I found it. He noticed it because the cylinder was manufactured in 1948 and something like that still in use is a bit odd. ...

I thought propane cylinders had to be recertified every 8 years or something like that, or you wouldn't supposedly be allowed to refill them?

[+Roo & the Bears]

I thought propane cylinders had to be recertified every 8 years or something like that, or you wouldn't supposedly be allowed to refill them?

They do if you are using them for propane. Meth lab operators use them to store & transport stolen Anyhdrous Ammonia to be used as part of the chemical process.

 

We had a big problem in our area last summer with lab operators stealing hundreds of the aluminum propane tanks used for fork lifts (look more like beer kegs than propane tanks). They were hitting every warehouse and industrial area for 5 counties around here. From what I understand they like these as the threaded connector on them is a perfect match for the hoses on commercial Anhydrous Ammonia storage tanks and they don't need to rig anything up to steal the ammonia.

 

Which brings up another point. If you find what looks like a perfectly good propane tank from a BBQ grill in the woods "abandoned", it may very well have something else altogether inside of it!!!

 

Besides do you think a little thing like a certification "law" will stop any geek head who's manufacturing meth?

[+welch]

Besides do you think a little thing like a certification "law" will stop any geek head who's manufacturing meth?

No of course not, just like selling cold pills only in certain stores or writting down who buys them won't impact those at are stealing them.

I asked, because off hand I couldn't decide it was a good idea to sell antique and unrecertifed? tanks (wait was it one tank? or several in the 'lot'?). Theres probably a good safe use for old tanks, I just couldn't think of it. Or maybe someone could have wanted it as a 'wallhanger'???

[+skeetersm]

im a new cacher and i am glad i stumbled into this topic. i use gloves and a pick stick to pick up trash,good common sense. i didnt know anything about meth labs but will now be more aware. i take my grandaughter with us so this is something i would want to watch for and share the knowledge with some of my other geocacher friends. not to scare them just to let them be aware. THANKS for the knowledge.

[+IWYLLPA]

I have to agree with skeetersm; I too am a new Geocacher and I'll have to take all this into consideration while out caching. Thank you everyone for bringing this to the rest of our attention and also for discussing it.

[+Western Mass Clan]

About 2 years ago I was caching in a small park on the edge of a town and found several meth "generators." These were 2 liter plastic bottles with plastic hoses attached and a white (or yellowish) substance inside. Here's a picture:

 

 

I took a couple pictures and emailed the cache owner the next day. He called the police and escorted them to the location. They were very appreciative of the help and were somewhat interested in geocaching.

 

 

Pictures such as this one are very helpful to learn what to be on the lookout for. It especially might be helpful to have some pictures to show people at a CITO event, just in case somebody runs across something like this. Does anybody else have pictures to share in this thread?

 

Cheers,

 

Matt

[+MissJenn]

I asked CyBret if he had more photos from this day but the others he has pretty much look like what he posted.

[+TeamSRB]

I belive this is something to watch out for but I am not sure I quite belive all of the stories on here. I work as a Firefighter and HAZMAT Response Specialist and Ammonium Hydroxide requires approximently 5000ppm for a brief exposure to be fatal. Now it will cause burns to skin and should have an ammonia odor. Just be aware when you are out there, and Good Luck to everyone.

[+Team GCHound]

The is an excellent topic to open eyes if you are going to CITO, but should not stop any future of CITO. Here is in the Midwest the labs are all over. They range from large home labs, small farm field labs, and one batch 2-liter bottle labs. Meth labs are my area of specility. When I teach on this I have one thing I tell the public. If there is ANY QUESTION OR CONCERN to yourself of any item you find do not touch it, move it, or play with it, leave the area and get ahold of the local police department and let them determine the safety. There are alot of different stories out there on people and there findings. The waste products do range from the packages to the chemicals. Most chemicals are not a concern if leave the area when you find it. I will not go into the deep hazmat area of this topic, most will be confused. Stay safe. Any other questions feel free and email me through my profile. Thanks

 

Jason Quimby

 

Deputy Chief/Hazmat Tech.

Indiana Region 6 CTR/Hazmat Team

Madison County CTR/Hazmat Team

 

Firefighter/Paramedic/Hazmat Tech.

City of Anderson Fire Department

[DHanz]

As stated previously in this thread: The waste generated is not nearly as bad as the people who manufacture or use the meth. Unfortunately a lot of meth labs, meth makers, geocaches & geocachers are likely to share the same real estate. It's always best to put personal safety first and error on the side of caution in any situation. No cache is worth meeting a meth head over.

[+Styk]

so that 20Lb propane tank and burnt gas container I found on an old road may have been more then just some lazy guys garbage?

[+DaveA]

so that 20Lb propane tank and burnt gas container I found on an old road may have been more then just some lazy guys garbage?

 

May have been In all probability it was some lazy guys trash. I do practice CITO, but there are limits. If it can't be put in a plastic bag, I don't CITO it. Following this philosophy allows me to pick up the usual trash which is the paraphenalia associated with fast/junk food, while avoiding rusty metal objects, very heavy objects (propane tanks), large objects (old tractor tires) and anything else that has any potential of exploding on me.

 

I really hate to think anyone would let fears of explosive meth lab litter stop them from practicing CITO.

 

Leave the coolers, propane tanks and other large, sealed objects and just pick up the McDonalds wrappers, soda bottles and beer cans/bottles and all is well.

[CajunKnight]

Normal trash found in wooded areas is usually easy to spot. Some things to be aware of would be...

 

Garbage frequently has numerous bottles and containers including:

Toluene

Muriatic Acid

Red Phosphorus (matches or flares)

Ephedrine

Pseudoephedrine

Veterinary products

Methanol

Rubbing alcohol

Sodium hydroxide

Ether

Paint thinner

Ammonia

 

Metal drums and boxes with labels removed or spray painted over.

 

Duct tape, rubber tubing, gloves, goggles

 

Dead animals and birds, resulting from drinking contaminated water from waste chemicals.

 

Odors from clandestine labs are often described as smelling similar to nail polish remover, "rotting garlic fish" or "concentrated cat urine".

[+TreePrincess]

The dead police officer in PA is not an urban legend....I remember watching this on the news. Shortly there after hubby (who is a firefighter) had to go to training on Meth labs....what to do and such.

 

I tried to do a google search to find the link to this story....but unfortunately....dead...police...PA...Meth....lab pulled up 372k hits and I'm not wading through all of that.

 

I think that post's like this are great educational opportunities.

 

Cheers...

[+hikergps]

I'll post a link to a brocure used by the Washington State Department of Health. Similar information can be obtained from your local state or county. Most local law enforcement groups can put on a presentation on methamphetamine awareness and meth lab recognition to a group of people, such as a CITO group. Knowledge is power.

 

http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/CDL/cdl-in-neighborhood.pdf

[+Hula Bum]

Do a google image search for "meth lab" and you will get all kinds of pictures that'll help. Something else to note is that these chemicals that they use are extremely volatile around one another and can cause pretty wicked explosions (like whole garages/houses gone explosions). If you think you've come across a lab or remnants of one call the police and leave the area immediately (not nec. in that order!)

 

[+MissJenn]

This image is from http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/methmap_2005.jpg .

(the US Dept of Justice)

 

[+Hula Bum]

And that's just the ones they find!

[CacheNCarryMA]

Does that map mean we New Englanders are better at hiding stuff?

[+welch]

Does that map mean we New Englanders are better at hiding stuff?

Maybe,

Or the cops keep missing the labs?

[Cape Cod Cacher]

Does that map mean we New Englanders are better at hiding stuff?

I saw a thingy on the tube about Meth a few days ago, said it hasn't "hit New England yet". Meth labs stink, so they don't show up in heavily settled areas often. I saw the map posted along with another relating to meth busts and one about meth users. I'd wait till the Providence Mafia can make $ before it hits.

Nasty stuff, they mentioned cops busting labs in days of old wearing just jeans and t-shirts, and the guys are sick now.

 

Investigative Reports on A&E I think it was...

[+DiS02]

Well, if they cant find our stills here in DE they sure as hecka aint gonna find our labs either. But growing pot is more fun.

 

J/K

 

I'm sure we have meth labs here in DE, its just our police havent really realized what they are. Then again our 'police depts' here in Sussex Cty deny any existance of M-13 even when our former sheriff brings out proof. Sheesh, go DE cops. :/

 

:edit for spelling:

Edited December 6, 2006 by DiS02

[+mikeslomka]

As coon hunters, my friends and I spend a lot of time in the woods at night. A few times, I noticed tents where they really shouldn't be. I figured that it was just kids trying to find a little seclusion for partying or romance. Shortly after that, a friend pointed out that they are actually disposable meth labs.

 

The meth makers set up, cook up, then just leave everything.

 

The same friend was shot at a few weeks before that when he got to close to one of these disposable labs. He was in the army for many years, plus he has been hunting since he was old enough to carry a gun, so a few answering shots seemed to scare off the occupants of the lab. He took some deputies ouut the next day and they called in all sorts of hazmat people to ismantle the place.

 

I talked to some of the narcotics officers that I work with, and they told me that these disposable labs are becoming a real big thing.

 

This meth is some scary stuff, and the nuts that cook it are even scarier. Be careful out there.

[+the Tribe of Two]

I am a geocacacher who works at Oxley Nature Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

 

Last week my boss had a scary encounter with what seemed like an unpleasant but ordinary piece of trash on the side of the road near one of our parks. A closed 5-gallon plastic bucket turned out to contain a VERY strong and volatile acid, and in moments the fumes gave him acid burns on his face and in his lungs. It was probably meth-related, and the hazmat guys told him that if he had opened a bucket of cooking meth, the explosion would have killed him (not "could have" but "would have".)

 

The entire Tulsa Parks Department will be going through training from the Fire Department's Hazmat Unit, to learn to recognize the more commonly used formats we might encounter. Meanwhile, with CITO events coming up, no matter how much we want to know what weird item is in the bucket, we all need to LEAVE THE SEALED BUCKETS ALONE and call someone with the appropriate hazardous materials training and gear to deal with it. Yes, this is from the woman who picks up dead skunks and bottles of rotting snake as part of her CITO work.

 

Having read all the posts, I'm thinking he was stupid to have opened the bucket. But prior to last Friday, a closed bucket out on the side of the road would have meant only paint or dead animal to me. We need to put this topic a lot higher on the Forums page, and everyone who organizes a CITO should warn their people about this.

 

-Donna Horton

 

P.S. We might also rethink the idea of large geocaches lthat look like anonymous sealed buckets. I think it's time for some clearly visible labeling.

[+the Tribe of Two]

I am a geocacacher who works at Oxley Nature Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

 

Last week my boss had a scary encounter with what seemed like an unpleasant but ordinary piece of trash on the side of the road near one of our parks. A closed 5-gallon plastic bucket turned out to contain a VERY strong and volatile acid, and in moments the fumes gave him acid burns on his face and in his lungs. It was probably meth-related, and the hazmat guys told him that if he had opened a bucket of cooking meth, the explosion would have killed him (not "could have" but "would have".)

 

The entire Tulsa Parks Department will be going through training from the Fire Department's Hazmat Unit, to learn to recognize the more commonly used formats we might encounter. Meanwhile, with CITO events coming up, no matter how much we want to know what weird item is in the bucket, we all need to LEAVE THE SEALED BUCKETS ALONE and call someone with the appropriate hazardous materials training and gear to deal with it. Yes, this is from the woman who picks up dead skunks and bottles of rotting snake as part of her CITO work.

 

Having read all the posts, I'm thinking he was stupid to have opened the bucket. But prior to last Friday, a closed bucket out on the side of the road would have meant only paint or dead animal to me. We need to put this topic a lot higher on the Forums page, and everyone who organizes a CITO should warn their people about this.

 

-Donna Horton

 

P.S. We might also rethink the idea of large geocaches lthat look like anonymous sealed buckets. I think it's time for some clearly visible labeling.

[+KerBear]

talked to the ranger at Moraine State Park 4/22/07 during our cito and he said they found a meth lab on the North Shore. Luckily not where we were cleaning up but still scary to know these things are out there. I'd rather run into a bear then these people making this stuff. no wonder park rangers are armed.

[+egami]

Besides do you think a little thing like a certification "law" will stop any geek head who's manufacturing meth?

No of course not, just like selling cold pills only in certain stores or writting down who buys them won't impact those at are stealing them.

I asked, because off hand I couldn't decide it was a good idea to sell antique and unrecertifed? tanks (wait was it one tank? or several in the 'lot'?). Theres probably a good safe use for old tanks, I just couldn't think of it. Or maybe someone could have wanted it as a 'wallhanger'???

 

Just a spin comment off this...having worked in the distribution business (companies that distribute the drug store restricted products) and also having worked in the agriculture industry (obviously this would be anhydrous related) I can attest that Iowa laws have severely hinderd local meth makers state-wide to the point where now the biggest threat isn't home grown meth, but imported meth from states with less strict laws...and actually, even in Iowa, a large portion coming across the southern border from Mexico.

 

But, yes, the prescription laws in Iowa have thwarted a large degree of the local meth manufacturing.

[+egami]

Being a chemist who has worked with this stuff (legitimately!!) I have to perhaps suggest the story is a geocaching urban legend.

 

Ammonium Hydroxide is nasty stuff, but you'd have have significant prelonged exposure in a confined space before you'd be keeling over inside three steps. The smell nuisance threshold would alert you to it's prescence well before you had a truly harmfu dose.

 

Considering the numerous documented sources where individuals have been harmed either in making meth or finding left over lab materials I am shocked at how you could arrive at this conclusion.