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Nashville's Lame Cache Removal


Monkeybrad

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I'm flattered. I'm the creator of the only cache to be named so far in this thread as "lame".

 

Monkeybrad has indeed previously observed that GCHXRG is clearly the most deserving cache of this name in Nashville. (Folks that really know me know why I object to this name for this cache, but so be it.) Cache page fixed.

 

edit: Huh. That lame cache that's been out for 9 months has been found more than any of my 2002-era stuff.

Somehow, lame is fitting. lol.

I'm not going to single out any cache for this..

But then again, I'm about to add 12 more micros to the list, so it's probably better that I keep my mouth shut.

 

As for that early comment about the hitler reference, I'd like you to go rent the movie "The Wave" - MonkeyBrad's point was that any person who decides that they should set rules over what is acceptable and what isn't - because of opinion (And yes, it is opinion whether you like something or think it's lame) - leads to too much power and over controll.

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your city. Grab a bag of Krystal's and go sit on the steps of

CO Admin.

Wow!!! Do they still have Krystals? I was Relief shift manager of the Krystal (far supserior to white castle)in Clearwater Fla. one summer during college in the sixties. One day, honest, a national guard convoy phoned ahead 30 minutes and ordered 240 breakfasts. In those days we flipped eggs in a pan--I cooked the eggs, meat, etc. on the burger grill, what a deal!! Had to ring everything up on this (now) antique register that you mashed these big buttons way down, but ah... They paid me with a chit. I love geocaching and lame caches I hunt 'em and hide 'em, but references to genocide have no place here, way way over the edge...Had a guy eat 24 Krystals one nite... :rolleyes:<_<

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Many that I thought were lame, turned out to have interesting stories behind them, including one Walmart parking lot lightpole cache that I was sure was lame, until I found out the parking lot was built on the hider's family farm which had been sold years ago. All of a sudden there is something interesting there.

Yep, if you do your research, you will find that there is usually some history behind (or under) the cache site.

 

Take for example the Walmart being built in Teotihuacan near Pyramid of the Sun.

 

By the way, Walmart sells an interesting book on the Archaeological Researches at Teotihuacan, Mexico

 

:ph34r::huh::rolleyes:B)B)B)<_<:huh::(

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Seriously though, in my observations it appears that there is a need for lame micro caches.

 

Lots of people live in a cache poor area and would kill to have that many caches nearby. For some reason though, people seem to complain about having too many caches near them.

 

Some of these folks readily admit that they prefer the caches that are quick and easy over those that require any kind of effort. It really isn't about the micros though, because they can be filtered out of the pocket queries. It's about not wanting to walk.

 

I'm willing to bet that their areas have an abundance of normal caches as well as micro caches. I feel they complain about the micros because some are not easy enough. They may have an abundance of regular caches because it's too far to walk to those, and they complain about the micros because they are not big old ammo boxes and that makes some too hard to find.

 

If you know that the cache is a micro as indicated on the cache page, and you know it's in a shopping center parking lot as indicated on a map, and you are turned off by these hides, why bother going after it at all? If these are the caches you are targeting, then you must be expecting a quick and easy find that does not require a walk.

 

Who doesn't like an easy find? Sometimes it lets you get your fix like on a rainy day in your work clothes between appointments or on your way home from work. On days when you have more free time, they are great to find on the way to the park that contains a normal size cache. But to complain about micros when you are in a cache rich area seems silly to me, at the very least looking for micros sharpens your GPS user skills and may make you think a bit. And if getting out of the car to walk to the light pole is all the exercise you get, be glad you got out instead of just sitting on the couch instead.

 

The only exception I would make is for the geocaching purists who have found all of the normal sized caches within reasonable driving distance. Otherwise, clear out all of the normal sized caches first before complaining about the micros.

 

Edit: typo

Edited by cachew nut
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I was planning on not replying to this thread, but at this point...

 

Would you be willing to work outside your geographical boundaries?

 

There is a series of Nashville-style caches near Memphis. Perhaps you could start there, as practice.

 

I say this only in jest, but when I found them, and then learned that the hider is from Nashville, I had to groan. I guess they're running out of lamp poles up that way.

 

Memphis--the unNashville.

 

Jamie

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I was planning on not replying to this thread, but at this point...

 

Would you be willing to work outside your geographical boundaries?

 

There is a series of Nashville-style caches near Memphis. Perhaps you could start there, as practice.

 

I say this only in jest, but when I found them, and then learned that the hider is from Nashville, I had to groan. I guess they're running out of lamp poles up that way.

 

Memphis--the unNashville.

 

Jamie

Not sure if this was directed at me, but I've cached outside my geographic area often enough, over a dozen other states. I will usually grab all of the waypoints near where I will be staying.

 

Not knowing the area or the hiders, I usually don't filter out any caches at all except for puzzle caches which may require research that I can't do at the cache site. Sometimes those are weeded out by simply reading the cache description.

 

I guess I would try to finish the series even if it made me groan, since I probably would have alloted the time to do them, and don't usually have a Plan B. Once I found them, there would be no reason to look for them again. :rolleyes:

 

Edit: punctuation

Edited by cachew nut
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LMAO! I don't know what to tell you, MB. You and everybody else are just going to have to accept the fact that the culture in Cacheville is a numbers culture. You're not going to be able to change it even IF you really wanted to. The cache baggers, number punchers, power cachers, or whatever else you choose to call them dominate the game in your city for better or worse and they wouldn't have it any other way. They have demonstrated a preference for quantity over quality and this is the game that you have. I wouldn't worry so much about it. It seems to me that there are plenty of people willing to hunt anything for a stat. I think that it's some kind of a strange cult and Nashville is their Vatican. I'm going to steer clear of Nashville because I'm not a believer and I don't think that I could stand the culture shock. People who worship light posts really creep me out.

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Lame is as lame does.  Anyone who can honestly make the definitive call that a cache is truly lame for one and all, is a lame brain.

Here's a definition I gave a year and a half ago, and I still stand by it.

 

I've found my share of lame caches, but I don't think there would be any benefit in linking to them here. I will, however, share some characteristics of caches that I considered lame.


  •  
     
  • Containers inadequate for their environment. If they can't protect the logbook & contents from the elements, they are trash-in-the-making. I've NEVER found a Gladware cache that wasn't ready for the trashbin.
     
     
  • Lack of a decent logbook. Loose sheets (or scraps) of paper, or poorly bound logbooks are shoddy, IMO. Geocaching.com sells decent, durable logbooks. Buy them or something at least as good. If it's a microcache, consider using the letter & logsheet found here and here.
     
     
  • Trashy location. I'm up for a good challenge, and I don't mind getting dirty; but I don't like wading through heaps of trash and other refuse while searching for a cache. Even if the purpose of the cache is CITO, try to find a nice place for the cache.
     

When I find a cache with these characteristics, I get the impression (right or wrong) that the owner doesn't really care much about the sport or its participants, but has placed it primarily for his own ego gratification.

Source

 

I won't claim that everyone will agree with this definition, and frankly, I don't care. I know lame when I see it, and I'm sure most other geocachers do, as well. If the OP is serious about cleaning up his city, he doesn't need a list of caches from anyone; he already has personal experience with nearly every cache there. All he has to do is use this filter or another of his own choosing. It's really not difficult.

 

Edit: The links to the microcache letter and logsheet templates didn't carry over, so disregard the "here and here".

Edited by worldtraveler
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Lame is as lame does.  Anyone who can honestly make the definitive call that a cache is truly lame for one and all, is a lame brain.

Here's a definition I gave a year and a half ago, and I still stand by it.

 

I've found my share of lame caches, but I don't think there would be any benefit in linking to them here. I will, however, share some characteristics of caches that I considered lame.


  •  
     
     
  • Containers inadequate for their environment. If they can't protect the logbook & contents from the elements, they are trash-in-the-making. I've NEVER found a Gladware cache that wasn't ready for the trashbin.
     
     
     
  • Lack of a decent logbook. Loose sheets (or scraps) of paper, or poorly bound logbooks are shoddy, IMO. Geocaching.com sells decent, durable logbooks. Buy them or something at least as good. If it's a microcache, consider using the letter & logsheet found here and here.
     
     
     
  • Trashy location. I'm up for a good challenge, and I don't mind getting dirty; but I don't like wading through heaps of trash and other refuse while searching for a cache. Even if the purpose of the cache is CITO, try to find a nice place for the cache.
     
     

When I find a cache with these characteristics, I get the impression (right or wrong) that the owner doesn't really care much about the sport or its participants, but has placed it primarily for his own ego gratification.

Source

 

I won't claim that everyone will agree with this definition, and frankly, I don't care. I know lame when I see it, and I'm sure most other geocachers do, as well. If the OP is serious about cleaning up his city, he doesn't need a list of caches from anyone; he already has personal experience with nearly every cache there. All he has to do is use this filter or another of his own choosing. It's really not difficult.

 

Edit: The links to the microcache letter and logsheet templates didn't carry over, so disregard the "here and here".

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You get out of geoaching what you bring to it. I stand by that statment. If one person lives in a world of gladware, trash and crappy log books and another one doesn't. that says a lot.

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As I stated earlier, I have been fooled many times. I have found caches that I thought were lame, that were not and I have found caches that I liked that others have claimed were lame. So as I stated earlier, I do not have the qualifications or experience to positively identify a "lame" cache. However, I am serious about trying to help fix the "Nashville Problem", so please give me specific examples of Lame nashville caches so I can get to work. It should not be that hard to identify a "lame" cache in the "lame cache capital of the world".

 

World Traveler, while I appreciate your input, I asked earlier that we avoid generalizations and sweeping statements regarding what is lame. I would however like to get the benefit of your experience regarding specific lame caches in Nashville. I am afraid that if I apply a blanket definition like the one you have supplied, some caches may be unjustly categorized as lame, because a finder did not close the container properly and the log got wet,, so the next finder replaced the log with a substandard log book. Alternately, I see nothing in your definition that would apply to a "Walmart lightpole cache", as they are rarely in tupperware, and most of the parking lots are kept clean, so I fear that some "lame" caches might escape.

 

As I have stated before, I cannot positively identify a "lame" cache, but if you can I will act as your agent and work to get the cache improved or archived and removed, but I need your help. I find this all a bit confusing, we have had numerous threads about the "Nashville Lame Micro Problem" recently. My hometown has been referred to as "Cacheville" so often that people think that is the name. Several people have lobbied for the archival of the "lame Nashville micros" both in the forums and offline. I would think that after all the interest this topic has generated that more people would have come forward to be a part of the solution.

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after these few years of geocaching, i have found that the best thing about geocaching is the community it has created. after these few years fo geocaching, i have found that the worst thing about geocaching is the community it has created. you people have nothing better to do but piss and moan about caches. i said this a few years ago. just play the game and stop complaining about caches and cache types and etc. get lives and enjoy the time you spend outdoors and leaning to play with these nice expensive toys. grow up. you people paint geocachers in general, in a bad light.

 

first you cried about lame virts, where in you created the micro cache culture.

now you are complaining about lame micros.

 

what will you complain about next?

 

you folks need to stop impressing YOUR vision of the game on everyone else and let all forms of the game exist so there is something for everyone.

Edited by dboggny
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huh.

 

if my local cache culture is much, much better than another regional cache culture, i can either go there and hunt their lame caches, or i can go somewhere that holds up to my standards.

 

if nashville IS lame and the cachers there are fine with that, it's pretty much the end of the matter unless the folks in nashville care that much about what other people think.

 

you might think i'm a real jerk, but unless i want you to like me, i just don't care. i'm not sensitive about it and i wouldn't start a thread offering to chop off the little bits of me that you don't like just to prove the point that i'm really a swell person and that some people like me.

 

if you're having a great time in nashville, just go on having a great time.

 

when was the last time they cancelled a nascar event because a bunch of us who prefer the symphony think the whole nascar culture is stupid?

 

they didn't. they're happy and they JUST DON'T CARE.

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The subject of this thread is silly and serves no purpose other than to breed ill will. There are many goods and services out there but I have the choice to select which ones I want and ignore the rest. If I like Pepsi instead of Coke, etc., I don’t advocate that all the rest of the soft drinks be removed from the market because I think they are “lame.” If it isn’t illegal or immoral to place a certain type of cache let the market decide whether they get placed or not. Caching should NOT be a unified, find only 5/5 caches or you’re a weenie sport, but a diversified sport with something for everyone. I wouldn’t classify the caches in Nashville as better or worse than any other place but as having their own unique interesting character.

 

You know, even though I own one of the most difficult caches in NH, I think I’d like to visit Nashville and find some of their caches. The people there sound very friendly and I’m sure I’d have a great time.

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if nashville IS lame and the cachers there are fine with that, it's pretty much the end of the matter unless the folks in nashville care that much about what other people think.

Exactly. Or put another way, Nashville isn't lame if the cachers there are fine with the way things are.

 

I don't like the way they play the game, but neither do I live in Nashville and I don't have to cache there. I passed on geowoodstock for a reason. Outsiders can either appreciate their culture or dislike it but their opinions really shouldn't bother the people of Nashville a whole lot if they are playing and enjoying their game.

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If I like Pepsi instead of Coke, etc., I don’t advocate that all the rest of the soft drinks be removed from the market because I think they are “lame.”

No, but you probably wouldn't feel shy about posting that Coke tastes like weasel pee, if you thought it was so. And you'd probably be really surprised if a Coke lover took your remarks personally and had a hissy about it.

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This isn't a response to one remark, it is a response to months of forum discussion where Nashville as held out as what is wrong with caching, as the "lame cache capital of the world". I and many others have been told in these forums and offline that we should "do something about all the lame caches". We have always responded the same way I have in this thread, that every cache has a value to someone and that we do not have the right to tell other people how to play this game. That in effect we have chosen to live and let live, and to not try to impose our will upon others. This negativity in the forums has gone on so long that people who have never visited our state much less our town, think that it is "cool" to slam Nashville here. Someone has to be willing to take a stand.

 

This last week has seen the "Nashville Problem" come to a head again in the forums, all I have done is take the advice that has been given time and time again by many different posters. I have agreed to help do away with the lame caches in Nashville. I stil do not feel that I have the right to tell someone else how to play this game based on my opinion, but, I am comfortable putting my neck on the line to give the "forum geocaching experts" an opportunity to put their money where their mouths have been.

 

It is intellectually dishonest to declare a type of hide or an area as lame if you are not willing to call out specific examples. Of course, it would be rude to list a specific example of a lame cache, but no more rude than thinly veiled descriptions of different cache series. Every time that this has come up there have been whole choruses of people who were ready to toss in their two cents about how bad Nashville is, or what is lame but, now that I am essentially calling them out they are conspicuously absent. All I am asking is that the detractors of MY community, put up or shut up.

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If I like Pepsi instead of Coke, etc., I don’t advocate that all the rest of the soft drinks be removed from the market because I think they are “lame.”
AuntieWeasel-"No, but you probably wouldn't feel shy about posting that Coke tastes like weasel pee, if you thought it was so. And you'd probably be really surprised if a Coke lover took your remarks personally and had a hissy about it."

Actually "shy" has nothing to do with it. I like to think I am mature enough to realize the effect a thoughtless (or intentionally spiteful) statement like that would have on others. It also doesn't take a genius to predict the effect such a statement would elicit so there should be no surprise. And besides, I'll leave the aforementioned taste comparisions to your experienced palate. :blink:

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Actually "shy" has nothing to do with it. I like to think I am mature enough to realize the effect a thoughtless (or intentionally spiteful) statement like that would have on others. It also doesn't take a genius to predict the effect such a statement would elicit so there should be no surprise. And besides, I'll leave the aforementioned taste comparisions to your experienced palate. :blink:

Well, then, I'm clearly not a genius, because I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would get the humps because a stranger criticized his beverage of choice...or the type of caches in his neighborhood, or his favorite color, or...whatever. I guess I don't derive that much of my self esteem from my personal preferences.

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I have cached in Nashville. While on business, I was staying at the downtown Sheraton and was happy to find a few micros within a few hundred feet of the hotel. I enjoyed these very well, but if they were on my turf, would consider them less than the ideal caching experience. Thus my long standing reply to such questions is to ''let the logs reflect the quality''. I expect I'll be at the Sheraton again in the future and hope there are some new micros to save me from killing time at the lounges in the evening!

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I'm sure Brad and some others on this thread were waiting for me to finally chime in, since I was specifically cited in the original post (although perhaps others were grateful that I hadn't yet!) I was actually off the forums for a day-and-a-half...of all the nerve of me! I was in transit yesterday back home to Biloxi from my work location this past week in the Boston area (where, by the way, I attended a local Event Cache the other night and was welcomed with warm New England-style hospitality, just as I have been at any other local group's Event Caches that I've crashed when I've been in the area (including in Nashville!) - Geocachers as a whole ARE some of the best people in the world, even when we strongly state our opinions on these forums!).

 

First of all, I agree with everything Quest Master has posted in this thread. 'Nuff said on that.

 

Secondly, Brad, I don't think I (for one, although perhaps other HAVE) ever said to have folks archive what many consider to be their "lame" caches. The point that *I* have repeated ad nauseum has been: 1, 2, 5, 10, a couple handfuls of "these" (or any other) types of caches in an area is fine (MODERATION being the operative word), but that 100, 200, 300, or more of "these" types is EXCESSIVE. New cachers will tend to copy what they see until they develop their own ideas, so the situation grows into what many areas, Nashville most notably, have become. This situation OBSCURES the many EXCELLENT caches these areas have to offer. However, most troubling to me and obviously quite a few others, it is taking our game in a direction that many don't want to see it go. LET ME BE CLEAR: The concern is not THAT "these" types of caches are in place, but that areas have become OVERRUN with them. The OVERRUN of them is the problem, not the EXISTENCE of them.

 

I don't believe the solution is to archive those caches (read: punish those placers), but instead, perhaps to let some of those caches run their course (i.e., leave them in place and let muggles/security/police/weather/Darwin act accordingly), and to encourage those same placers to perhaps exercise a bit more discretion in their placement of future caches (and perhaps encouraging those cachers to employ the mantras of "Just because a location CAN support a cache doesn't necessarily mean it SHOULD", and "If that means placing fewer caches but keeping the quality high, then that's what it means"). Over time, overall cache quality (and more specifically, cache LOCATION quality) will improve.

 

That is my opinion, respectfully submitted.

-Dave R. in Biloxi

Edited by drat19
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And yet, what I've said before - and a comment that got ignored - is that you think we have so many, but look at all the caches we have.

 

Nashville - Urban - 18% micros

Ashtabula County, Ohio - rural - 33% micros

 

Yeah, we have lots and lots of micros...

But we also have many many caches.

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And yet, what I've said before - and a comment that got ignored - is that you think we have so many, but look at all the caches we have.

 

Nashville - Urban - 18% micros

Ashtabula County, Ohio - rural - 33% micros

 

Yeah, we have lots and lots of micros...

But we also have many many caches.

Fair counterpoint, Fly. However, I'm sure that percentage will be higher if filtered to 1.5 star diff/terr and below (i.e., 1-1.5). And like it or not, folks coming through or spending time in town will tend to focus on 1-1.5'ers (I admit to it!). And then, when filtered in that fashion, how many of those took folks to WORTHWHILE locations?

 

My home area of Biloxi and the Miss. Gulf Coast has a far higher percentage of 1-1.5 star micros than does Nashville (of course we have far fewer total caches!). BUT: Our micros (and not just mine, but my fellow local hiders') CONSISTENTLY get "Thanks for taking me to this hidden local gem location that I wouldn't have found otherwise" log entries. CONSISTENTLY.

 

This (for me, anyway...for others it may be different) is NOT about ALL MICROS. It's about choosing locations for them just to put caches out there for stat-gatherers and the mobility-impaired, but with no consideration put into whether the locations are WORTHWHILE. Random lampposts/bushes/guardrails/rockpiles/streetsigns are NOT worthwhile if all the cache has to offer is a stat.

 

That is my opinion, respectfully submitted.

-Dave R.

Edited by drat19
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And yet, what I've said before - and a comment that got ignored - is that you think we have so many, but look at all the caches we have.

 

Nashville - Urban - 18% micros

Ashtabula County, Ohio - rural - 33% micros

 

Yeah, we have lots and lots of micros...

But we also have many many caches.

Hrm. In this thread: Why the dislike of micros??? I found these numbers:

 

Nashville (centered on N36°09.995 W086°47.037):

715 total caches within 15 miles.

443 of those are micros.

62% of all caches are micros.

 

 

I'm not sure what you base your numbers on (including what you mean when you say "nashville" -ie, where's the center of your search), and I'm sure I should run a PQ on that location or check it - but these numbers are conflicting.

 

I probably should do some poking about - but I'm curious - is there a standard people use when they say "caches in Nashville". I'd assume that the best thing would be to go to the TN State page and search by city.

 

sd

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FWIW: What a shameful display. I hope all the self appointed cache police participating in this farce stay the eff away from Houston. :anicute:

 

If someone took it upon themselves and had the unadulterated GALL to call one of MY caches lame in public and then demand that I defend my cache from archival, they'd rue the day and likely need my size 11 removed from somewhere private. :blink::lol:

 

I would most likely quit caching as well as I'm sure some of your intended targets will. Think of that while you're sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your torches. Don't be a loser. Live and let live. :lol:

Edited by Snoogans
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wait, wait...

 

do you mean to tell me there's a GEOCACHING "problem" with nashville? i wasn't reading very carefully and i thought it was just a problem with nashville itself.

 

can you actually get nashville archived? that'd help a lot. while you're at it, i have some ideas about some other lame locales, states, and principalities. it's really great of you to take the initiative to help out.

 

after you're done informing nashville that it must be abandoned and plowed under (do you have that kind of influence?), please start sending notification to atlantic city NJ and skokie IL.

 

or, since you apparently have preternatural powers, you could simply declare a moratorium expression of viewpoints that do not agree with yours.

 

be honest. would you really notice if rhode island disappeared?

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The problem with Nashville's perceived reputation is that when people come here, they "generally" will concentrate on numbers runs,

When I attended Geowoodstock 2, we concentrated on numbers run and I too thought that most were lame, but once I got home and read the cache pages I realized that if I took the time to read each and every cache page as I was logging that there was a good reason for most of the caches. The Dalmation caches are a case in point. At first I thought these were lame, but then I found out that the person that placed them is not able to get around that well and that if you follow along the story of the Dalmations, they in fact are placed in strategic locations. As with all caches to each there own (something for everone).

Edited by Turtle3863
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I would most likely quit caching as well as I'm sure some of your intended targets will.  Think of that while you're sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your torches.

They'd probably consider that a victory of the "we won't have to worry about him anymore" kind. :huh:

Lol! Anyone that would worry that I had a lame cache posted and let it eat away at them to the point that thay'd ask me to archive it....... Where's the emoticon making the "L" sign when you need it??? :unsure::unsure:

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First off, although I mentioned you in the initial post, this is not aimed at you Dave or any other particular cacher. I appreciate your opinion on this subject and I have to admit that you rname came immediately to mind when I started this, but only because you feel strongly not because I want to pick a fight with you. This is much broader than that, this is an opportunity for anyone who has a problem with the lame micros in Nashville to step up and do something "good" for geocaching.

 

I rread over your post and I am curious, what is the difference in letting the lame caches die a natural death and immediate archival. We will still need some mechanism to decide which ones should die naturally. Once again it is the same result, it is just easier to deal with if you are not honest with yourself. Think of it this way, someone comes to the door of your cabin on a bitter freezing night that could not be survived outside,let us assume you do not like this person for whatever reason. Is refusing them entry and warmth any different than shooting them. Either way they are dead. In one case, you have murdered them openly and honestly in the other you have taken the way of the coward, you are still responsible, and they are just as dead.

 

I am perplexed as to what it is that people think should be done. I have lobbied here in the forums over and over again that we should live and let live, that none of us has the right to tell our peers how they should enjoy this game. Time and time again I have been railed against for being apathetic and not caring about my community (this has only come from those outside my community). So I finally got fed up and said, let's do it your way. Let's be heavy-handed, let's declare ourselves judge, jury and executioner and get rid of these lame caches once and for all.

 

Where are the "forum experts" now. Not a one of them has had the nerve to come forward and declare specific caches as lame. There are a couple of reasons for this. One, many of these posters have no experience in Nashville so they cannot, I expected them to sit on their hands since they do not have a leg to stand on. They are the ones who just pile on because bashing something is cool, whther it be Nashville or micors or virts or locationless caches or newbies or whatever it is currently in vogue to be against. These people are everywhere and it cannot be helped. The other type of poster has been to Nashville and they have hunted "lame" caches, they have been conspicuosly silent as well and I will tell you why. They know that it would be incredibly rude to publicly declare someone's cache as lame and to be responsible for that cache being archived. What I hope they now realize is that they were already being incredibly rude, they just were not being held accountable for it. I believe that in this case their actions lack the conviction of their words.

 

So what are we to do? Are we to set up a local tribunal to monitor the quality of caches in the area? Should every new cacher have to get permission from the Quality Control Ministry before placing a cache? You see there is no good answer. We have a cacher in Nashville who I like personally, but whose hides I hate. Every time I see one come up I dread it because I know it is going to be a bad hide in some horrible area. I go and hunt them anyway, because I do not want to hurt their feelings and I want to make sure that the hide is safe. It may be unpleasant, but as long as it is legal and safe, I feel I have no right to complain. On that side if it is not safe, I feel that I have not only the right but the duty to do something about it. In my book this cacher's caches are lame, but who am I to judge. They have fun hiding these caches, other people go and find them, so who am I to judge. Dave and others would say that I should try to guide this person, but I find that troublesome. How can I "guide" them without letting them know that I find their hides susbstandard, and on top of that, who died and made me the god of geocaching in middle Tennessee.

 

I am always fearful of the "slippery slope". If we start telling people what they can and cannot do, how far is it honestly before we have a Quality control board judging caches. Even if it is not official, a de-facto board can be dangerous as well. If a few "expert geocachers" take it upon themselves to steer the direction of geocaching in an area, bad things happen. How long is it before new hiders are afraid to place caches because they may not "measure up"? It has happened, as a matter of fact it is happening currently in your own backyard, Dave. I have personal knowledge of hiders who have refrained from hiding caches in Lower Mississippi, because they fear that they may be the subject of "peer pressure". I know that this was not your intent, but the law of unintended consequences has stepped up to bat. Expert judgement has taken the fun away from local cachers.

 

I do not want that to happen here.

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I once visited the Nashville Zoo, and had a great time! :unsure:

 

A wise man once said, "if you go looking for a fight, you will surely find one."

 

* look for caches

* find caches

* trade if you want

* sign the log

 

I'm assuming that the caches in the Nashville area were approved by a gc.com approver, so they must meet the guidelines...so why would they need to be archived?

 

If you're going to change your life/world/environment to make other people happy, pack a lunch (or a couple million)...they never will be...people will always complain.

 

If people can't tell "Nashville Lame Micros" jokes, they'll just pick another place.

 

nfa-jamie

Edited by NFA
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the problem isn't the quality of caches in nashville. the PROBLEM is the idiotic use of the word "muggle" in a geocaching context.

 

you will probably demand that i and all others like me make a list of which cachers ought to be banned for using it. then you may offer to have them killed for me and accuse me of the murder.

 

and if i don't call for anybody's death you may accuse me of being a coward and demand that i keep quiet about it.

 

this use of "muggle" is much more pervasive than the "nashville problem" and, i daresay, far more important.

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Where are the "forum experts" now. Not a one of them has had the nerve to come forward and declare specific caches as lame. There are a couple of reasons for this. One, many of these posters have no experience in Nashville so they cannot, I expected them to sit on their hands since they do not have a leg to stand on. They are the ones who just pile on because bashing something is cool, whther it be Nashville or micors or virts or locationless caches or newbies or whatever it is currently in vogue to be against. These people are everywhere and it cannot be helped. The other type of poster has been to Nashville and they have hunted "lame" caches, they have been conspicuosly silent as well and I will tell you why. They know that it would be incredibly rude to publicly declare someone's cache as lame and to be responsible for that cache being archived. What I hope they now realize is that they were already being incredibly rude, they just were not being held accountable for it. I believe that in this case their actions lack the conviction of their words.

 

I think that you are getting closer to the root of the problem here.

 

Instead of asking the comparatively few people that have found lame caches in Nashville for a list, why not ask a wider audience of forum readers to generate a list of the lame posters that insist on throwing a wet blanket on the enjoyment of others?

 

The next problem would be for the people who are not rude and controlling to devise a way, against their nature, to get the ones that are to STFU (Stop The Forum Unkindness).

 

Good luck!

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...many interesting points...

Brad, I again must repeat that MY point (which again, may be different from some others') has always been NOT that what we're calling these "lame caches" EXIST, but that areas, Nashville being the most prominent, have become OVERRUN with them. Quote percentages of total caches all you want, the fact is that if you're in certain parts of town and you want to hunt 1-1.5 star caches, that's what you have. Over and over and over and over (and over and over...) again.

 

If this becomes the de facto "standard", new cachers will tend to copy that technique, and the sore festers. It's happened in those areas of Nashville, and evidently it's an issue in other areas of the country as well, otherwise I would be alone on this. "Micro pollution" is a concern everywhere, and it is my opinion that it is taking our game in the wrong direction...which is sad because there are EXCELLENT micros in EXCELLENT parts of towns and regions all over the country.

 

I'm not going to repeat this point anymore. (Applause rings out from forum readers everywhere! :grin: )

 

As for your comment about other cachers on the Miss. Gulf Coast, well, I know every one of the caching "leaders" in my area (yes, I'm the most vocal/visible, but I'm not the only one!), and unless they're lying to my face, every one of them agrees wholeheartedly about maintaining our region's "cache/location quality". Every one of those cachers has told me to my face that they appreciate the very real encouragement I've offered as they've ramped up and become "expert cachers" themselves, and of course most of them have enjoyed reading my often 3 and 4 DNF logs on some of their caches where they've stumped me because I'm so bloody stupid sometimes!

 

Having said that, if any newer cachers in my area are intimidated by my articles and opinions on this issue, well, you're right, I can't do anything about the effect of "unintended consequences". As you correctly point out, everyone's entitled to play this game however they wish within the published guidelines and standards, and if someone wants to bomb my area with hundreds of lamppost/rockpile/bush/random roadside caches, there's nothing I can do to stop it. Let them enjoy a bunch of two-letter "SL" logs, while I and the others around here get the wonderful "Thanks for taking me to this hidden gem location I wouldn't have found otherwise" logs.

 

I've also been painfully clear in every post or article I've published that these are my OPINIONS, which I am entitled to, and anyone may feel free to agree or disagree as they see fit, which they are all entitled to. Healthy, respectful debate is a GOOD THING. It's OK to offer an opposing point of view and feel that you're right and the other person isn't...as long as you're not also telling the other person that he/she is an idiot (or worse!). Everyone has something to offer. If what you say about some cachers in my region is true, I can't help it if some folks in my region might not recognize that a strong opinion is not the same as "the gospel".

 

Finally, Robertlipe made an interesting and pertinent point elsewhere on this thread that I'm also evolving toward: I too no longer feel compelled to find "everything in my radius" anymore. My caching has slowed because I have become more selective. I had my fun running up my stats over the year-and-a-half between early '03 and mid '04...now I cache less frequently and more enjoyably. Part of that may be that you're right, Brad...maybe I just need to live and let live. But the other part is that maybe all the "micro pollution" has indeed taken our game in a direction I'm not thrilled about.

 

Like so many other of our game's participants and forum posters, Geocaching changed my life, for the better. I believe I'm well within my rights to be a bit upset if I have the opinion that this FUNDAMENTAL issue (the BOMBING of areas with micros in not-worthwhile locations) is evolving our great game in what I believe to be the wrong direction.

 

As always: These are my opinions, respectfully submitted.

-Dave R. in Biloxi

Edited by drat19
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