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Paperless Experts - Info Requested


VisionQuest220

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OK, folks. I have a Garmin Quest and a Palm IIIc that I use for work and I'd like to also use it for caching. I've read the tutorial at Geocaching U but I have a feeling that there may be an easier, more streamlined method that exists in the hearts and minds of those without the ability/desire/gumption to post such a step-by-step process for all to see.

 

So, without further ado, the question: What is the most efficient, streamlined and, of course, simple method to achieve the goal of being a Paperless Geocacher?

 

I kneel before the Altar of Knowledge as I await your guidance...

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The best way IMHO, is to first become a Premium Member (you can skip one latte a month can't ya? B) ) Set up Pocket Queries for the area you want to 'cache in, and then drop $7.00 for Cachemate. That will allow you to keep literally thousands of 'caches on your Palm, and have all of the cache information, icluding logs with you at all times. There are lots of other ways to do it (Spinner/Plucker, et cetera) but that's the easiest, most streamlined method that I have found. Good luck!

Edited by tirediron
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Ha! You incorrectly assume that I drink lattes or any other coffe related beverage so my contribution to the propegation of Groundspeak through the purchase of a Premium Membership will require a concession in a different area of my life! And where, may I ask, am I supposed to come up with the $7 for Cachemate?

 

(Does anyone know of a plasma bank around here?)

 

On the other hand, thanks for the sage advice!

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Someone will object I think, but to me the simplist way would be to simply get mobipocket and have your PQ (yes you need to send Groundspeak a check for those) sent as a ebook. Then you just unzip and tell the file to be transfered at the next sync, then you sync. No need to do anything to the file. The downside to this that mobi sucks, and has no abilty to customize the file. What is sent to you in the ebook is what you get. With some of the other programs/systems you can merge, split, filter, etc the gpx files.

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Well, you either have to trade convenience or dollars, one or the other. I to was once shy of funds.

 

The most cost effective way to go for software is Cachemate for the PDA and GSAK for the PC to get the stuff to the PDA.

 

As to the premium membership, you can DL the GPX files one at a time. This will mean you pretty much have to know what you are going to go out for and limit those "spur of the moment" opportunities to find a cache you did not load up.

 

For $30 a year, I will DL more than I can possibly use and then can pick and choose. Plus do my part to make sure GC stays around and keeps improving.

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I downloaded Cachemate, installed it on my Palm IIIc, downloaded an .LOC file from Geocaching.com, converted and installed in on my PDA and have been playing around with the features of the program. It looks pretty good so far. I'm one of those "take one step at a time" kind of guys so I'm gonna take a closer look at what I've done and see what I like, don't like, etc.

 

I'm by no means a tightwad and if I like this program, springing for the $8 is no big deal. (Hell, I'll drop $20 for a DVD on a whim.) I like the idea of loading my PDA with a lot of caches all over the Phoenix Metro area and if I can hit one now and then while I'm out and about, that makes the PDA/GPSr all that much more useful. I'm sure I'll also end up dropping the $30 for a Premium Membership too.

 

In the meantime, keep those methods coming! There's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

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In addition to Cachemate, I use Mapopolis on my Palm. With the free plugin from Cachemate, it means that I can see all of the 'caches from my PQ against a map. Sometimes, the closest one isn't always the oen you want to go for... it's not quite so cheap (About $25.00 for a year for all of North America) but still VERY reasonably priced for the info you get!

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Well, you either have to trade convenience or dollars, one or the other. I to was once shy of funds.

 

The most cost effective way to go for software is Cachemate for the PDA and GSAK for the PC to get the stuff to the PDA.

Huh? Cachemate and GSAK both require payment. (Yeah, I know... GSAK is free for a trial period, etc.)

 

I use Plucker, Spinner, Watcher and GPSBabel as my software tools for paperless caching. Total cost: zero. The developers of the latter three are geocachers and each of them ought to know that I would do anything within my power to assist them with anything where my talents (which ain't programming) might be useful. Optional tips are also gratefully accepted.

 

I've never tried GSAK or Cachemate but I read the forums and others swear by them. I'd go so far as to say it's probably a superior combination. But my 800 paperless finds (after stumbling around a bit for the first 400) say that other options can work just fine, too.

 

With CYBret's instructions at GeocacherU, I was able to get my Spinner/Plucker combination up and running with no problems. It works so well for *me* that I have no motivation to change to a different system.

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Cachemate isn't necessarily superior to Plucker, but it's easier for the technically challenged. The only advantage Cachemate has is that you can change the pages, taking notes, entering new coordinates for multis, logging finds, etc, but you can do that in lots of different programs. The memopad works fine. Plucker is far superior because it uses html for links, and that makes searching and navigation much easier, plus the pages look better, with graphics and much better fonts. My personal solution is GSAK and both Plucker and Cachemate. GSAK lets me filter and otherwise deal with the caches, send the waypoints to my GPS, save the waypoints from the GPS for backup purposes, and export to both Cachemate and Plucker with a click. If you geocache, you need GSAK. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to, but it was worth it to me.

 

If you want elegance, GSAK is it. It does almost everything you need, and all you need on your Palm is either Plucker or Cachemate. Either will get the job done. For converting the HTML to Plucker Palm format, I recommend Sunrise Desktop. It's far faster and easier to configure than the Plucker desktop, and the price is the same. I think the Python distiller that Plucker uses is what slows it down. Sunrise does conversions about 10 times faster.

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Well, you either have to trade convenience or dollars, one or the other. I to was once shy of funds.

 

The most cost effective way to go for software is Cachemate for the PDA and GSAK for the PC to get the stuff to the PDA.

Huh? Cachemate and GSAK both require payment. (Yeah, I know... GSAK is free for a trial period, etc.)

 

Which is what I said in my post and the above quote.

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i use cachemate and gsak. both were readily compatible with my palm lllxe. on that palm i have 2500 .gpx cachepages.

 

the way i did it was to become a premium member, download all the .gpx files to my hard drive. then i made a folder and copied all of the .gpx files into the new folder.

 

once the folder was created, i used the open file tab on gsak and searched for the new folder and afetr finding it downloaded the whole thing to gsak.

 

gsak can send out.gpx to the pda by converting them to .pdb files with cachemate.

you directly export the .gpx to cachemate from the gsak tab that looks like a globe.

 

all databases are backed up on gsak itself, and all.gpx files are backed up as well.

 

the hard part was downloading all of the 124 pages of .gpx files. i didnt know at the time how to download those files en masse, and actually i still dont know. all i do know is it took me every bit of 10 hours to download 2500 .gpx files. to get them on my pda. the pda process of this only took 35 seconds to download complete cache pages.

regards

archie

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Well, since I'm not a totally computer-illiterate, non latte-drinking hack, I like the idea of being able to do some manipulation/customization of the data being transferred. Combined with the fact that I've also heard that mobipocket sucks, I'm looking more seriously at the other possibilities.

 

What's your method?

I get the gpx files sent to me, save and unzip them. If I want to do something to them, I use watcher, like to merge the 'caches found' and 'caches not found' into one(so I only have one file to process.), filter caches placed by person X, cachers rated C, everything east of me, all caches more than 23.4miles from my coords, etc. After doing that, or not if they were perfect before hand, I run the file(s) threw spinner. When thats completed, I open plucker and have it update (its not hard to create new 'channels' but I think if you keep the same names but delete the old one you shouldn't have to create a new one, just keep 'updating' the old one). After all thats done I sync the palm.

I like spinner/plucker because it works for me. I like how the pages are laid out much like the gc.com website, the 'nearest' caches link is super. If I had a new colored pda, not a palmIIIxe, I might also see about having plucker transfer any pics too. Never used gsak or cachemate, many have and seem to like them, but plucker spinner works for me.

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I've been paperless since late May or early June. I use GSAK and Cachemate.

 

I have several PQs set up for the areas in which I frequently cache. My PQs are defined to send GPX files. I import the GPXs into GSAK and then slice and dice the data into different categories via the GSAK filters. I export the filtered data from GSAK to Cachemate, my Garmin Legend and to MS Streets & Trips. I have GSAK and Streets&Trips on a computer in the cachemobile. I have my Palm with Cachemate for when I'm out of the truck.

 

I recently drove from Cincinnati to South Florida and back. To have some caches to do along the way, I did PQs for seven different regions along the way -- only selecting 3/3s or less and no multi's, webcams, etc. I loaded the 3500 caches (7 PQs * 500) into GSAK. Using GSAK filters I selected only caches within 10 miles of I-75 that were less than diff = 3; terrain =2.5 etc. This gave me a list of about 900 caches to choose from. I plotted those on the Streets and Trips map to identify caches I could do without substantially increasing my travel time. I divided the caches into different "sections" of the drive. Each section became a different category in Cachemate. This made the process of looking up caches easier plus simplifies the post-trip 'cleaning' of the Cachemate database.

 

I have only two minor complaints:

1. Cachemate is a slow to load updates; and

2. I wish I had gone paperless MUCH earlier.

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One thing that seems certain in all this is that .gpx files are a must which means that Premium Membership is also a must.

 

I wonder if someone would be kind enough to provide me with a sample .gpx file (since none are available to sample on Geocaching.com) so that I might see the difference between a converted .loc file and a converted .gpx file. I don't really care where the cache is located and I really only need a single cache to do the comparison.

 

If anyone is interested in sharing a .gpx file, please e-mail it to visionquest220 @ cox.net.

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Just to clarify, I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble for sharing a sample .gpx file and I've already posted in the website thread that perhaps TPTB could make a single cache .gpx file available for download so that people like me, who are considering the upgrade to Premium, a chance to see how the other half lives. Since it looks like the single most important benefit of Premium Membership is access to .gpx files, it seems logical to me that a sample could go a long way towards helping people like me take the plunge.

 

Anyway, if sending me a .gpx file in any way violates the membership agreement, please don't do it. I don't want anyone to get into "deep kimchee" with the Big Kahuna himself.

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GET A POCKET PC PDA. All I have read about the PALM PDA for caching requires about 40 steps to do the job I do with my Pocket PC PDA in one step. Plug pda in to PC drag and drop GPX file into folder on PDA DONE. GO caching. I have a Palm PDA too which I got for caching to save my PocketPC for other thing but after reading the GU article I said NO WAY I have a life so I stuck with the POCKET PC.

cheers

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I have an old Palm that I have installed Cachemate on, and it's great. I like the menu it displays for the logs, description, etc.. and the fact that it allows you to decode a hint if you need it. However, my main PDA is an iPaq Pocket PC. I have it with me all the time on trips, etc. After a recent trip to Nashville, I figured "Why carry 2 PDA.s?".. So, the question is - is there a Pocket PC equivalent to Cachemate that gives you the info and would allow the hint to remain encrypted unless you needed it? Would love to eliminate one of these beasts!!

 

Thanks

Mark

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GET A POCKET PC PDA. All I have read about the PALM PDA for caching requires about 40 steps to do the job I do with my Pocket PC PDA in one step. Plug pda in to PC drag and drop GPX file into folder on PDA DONE. GO caching. I have a Palm PDA too which I got for caching to save my PocketPC for other thing but after reading the GU article I said NO WAY I have a life so I stuck with the POCKET PC.

cheers

Just out of curiousity, what method do you use to transfer the waypoints for your selected caches into your GPSr?

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GET A POCKET PC PDA.  All I have read about the PALM PDA for caching requires about 40 steps to do the job I do with my Pocket PC PDA in one step.  Plug pda in to PC drag and drop GPX file into folder on PDA DONE.  GO caching.  I have a Palm PDA too which I got for caching to save my PocketPC for other thing but after reading the GU article I said NO WAY I have a life so I stuck with the POCKET PC.

cheers

Just out of curiousity, what method do you use to transfer the waypoints for your selected caches into your GPSr?

GSAK downloads the cache waypoints into my Magellan Meridian Gold GPS.

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OK, a day of monkeying with this paperless thing has me feeling like a resident expert!

 

First of all, thanks to all the kind folks who took the time to send me examples of .gpx files. (You know who you are.) It made all the difference in understanding how important access to that type of file is for paperless caching.

 

Next, I see that it will be easy enough to run a pocket query to get all the caches in my state and then filter and file them into my Palm. I figure that if I have enough memory, and 8mb seems like a lot of memory at the moment, why not put as many caches into the PDA so that the info will be handy whenever I want it.

 

My next question is this: New caches are being placed every day and currently I have my account set up to receive an e-mail listing of all the new caches in my area. In fact, I got one this morning. Is it possible for me to set up a pocket query that will give me this same list but in .gpx format so that I can then import the new caches into my PDA thereby keeping my database current? Well, is it?

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OK, a day of monkeying with this paperless thing has me feeling like a resident expert!

 

First of all, thanks to all the kind folks who took the time to send me examples of .gpx files. (You know who you are.) It made all the difference in understanding how important access to that type of file is for paperless caching.

 

Next, I see that it will be easy enough to run a pocket query to get all the caches in my state and then filter and file them into my Palm. I figure that if I have enough memory, and 8mb seems like a lot of memory at the moment, why not put as many caches into the PDA so that the info will be handy whenever I want it.

 

My next question is this: New caches are being placed every day and currently I have my account set up to receive an e-mail listing of all the new caches in my area. In fact, I got one this morning. Is it possible for me to set up a pocket query that will give me this same list but in .gpx format so that I can then import the new caches into my PDA thereby keeping my database current? Well, is it?

That email will only come once every thurdays.

yes you can get a PQ to give you the data in gpx

when you built the pq set a time frame... uh its the 'placed during' section toward the bottom. you can pick either 'during the last week' or beteen two dates.

I don't know if you can update the file once its on your pda (anyone? use gsak?)

but you could merge them into your old files on your pc and then go threw whatever process you use and upload the updated filed to your pda.

When I need to update I usually just run a brand new file of the whole thing, but I don't have a problem of hitting the 500 limit, and usually its been a few weeks or more between doing that so I figure there could be chance that old caches have been unarchived, or one that were delayed in approval are now available.

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GET A POCKET PC PDA.  All I have read about the PALM PDA for caching requires about 40 steps to do the job I do with my Pocket PC PDA in one step.

Hmm, at least in the case of CacheMate....

 

1. Load GPX file into file converter

2. Create PDB file for PDA, which adds it to Hotsync queue

3. Hotsync the PDA

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems more like 3 than 40 :lol:

Edited by Maeglin
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So, the question is - is there a Pocket PC equivalent to Cachemate that gives you the info and would allow the hint to remain encrypted unless you needed it?  Would love to eliminate one of these beasts!!

Yes, GPXSonar. When you first see a cache page, the hint area is blank. In order to see the hint, you have to use your stylus and drag it across the hint area to highlight it. Along with getting the cache name, cache type, d/t, and cacheowner, you can also input a set of coordinates to be center and you will get distance and direction. Further, you can enter field notes for each cache including picking up or dropping TB's. Bear in mind, these are field notes only. It does not interface with the website. You will still have to manually do all of that stuff. Oh, if you have MS Pocket Streets, you can export the caches as a pushpin file into it. Other mapping software is supported, just don't know which ones. I am sure there are other features I haven't mentioned.

 

AJ

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I did my first night caching tonight and my first paperless caching too. It was so much more simple to have the PDA on hand for taking notes (it was a multi-cache) and having all the information available.

 

Thanks to all who helped me find the answers and offering up suggestions. Santa will be leaving something extra in your stocking as your reward!

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For converting the HTML to Plucker Palm format, I recommend Sunrise Desktop. It's far faster and easier to configure than the Plucker desktop, and the price is the same. I think the Python distiller that Plucker uses is what slows it down. Sunrise does conversions about 10 times faster.

Is there one page that has links to all of these cool utils?

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For converting the HTML to Plucker Palm format, I recommend Sunrise Desktop.  It's far faster and easier to configure than the Plucker desktop, and the price is the same.  I think the Python distiller that Plucker uses is what slows it down.  Sunrise does conversions about 10 times faster.

Is there one page that has links to all of these cool utils?

you can try here:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/default.aspx

 

(from the main gc.com page, click LINKS and go from there)

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OK, I am totally Palm illiterate.  I was just given a Palm m100.  Can I download Cachemate and use that on this Palm?  I seriously don't know how to  do anything with the Palm.  So any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

YES.

 

http://www.mdgps.org/modules.php?name=cachemate

 

:unsure:

 

edit: Download the CacheMate program from http://www.smittyware.com/palm/cachemate Double click the .PRC file and it will install next time you hotsync your PDA. THEN follow the instructions in the link above. You'll need a GPX file from the geocaching.com site though, a premium membership to gc.com is most helpful

Edited by robert
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You can get Sunrise here.

 

You can get information on the M100 here. Toward the lower right-hand corner of the page are links to the Getting Started Guide and the complete manual. You need to install the Palm Desktop, then download Cachemate, double-click on the cachemate.prc file, then hotsync your Palm, . after you read the manual.

Edited by NightPilot
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Here is my way.

1. Pocket Query 500 at a time. (I get one every week but only process them the night before I go caching. Always have new ones)

2. Run this through "gpx2html"

3. Result is "easygps" file for Garmin 76. And Html files for Palm IIIxe

4. Convert the html index file with Plucker

5. Hot sync it ... your done

 

total cost 3.00 a month and a whole lot of gasoline.

 

wingryder

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Went paperless caching on Sunday. What a fun day using the pda for paperless caching.. I am convinced.. ok.. someday will plan for a bigger better color pda. Though an 8 MB Palm IIIxe works very well with over 250 caches stored. A great tool to say the least.

cache mate for $8 on a $30 used PDA is a great way to go. No need for bells and whistles, and if you bust the PDA, you can replace it cheaply. those of us carrying more expensive PDAs are in for some hurtin' if we drop it. :grin:

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It's nice to have a Palm for caching; I don't have, but my laptop serves this and many other purposes. Here's my paperless method.

 

1. Create a suitable table in the vehicle for the laptop. Mine is just three pieces of 1/2" iron pipe, two 45-degree couplers, two floor flanges, and a table top of either plexiglass or plywood.

2. Use a good mapping program on the laptop -- Delorme Street Atlas and others are available on eBay for about $5. This gives you a map for traveling, as well as GCing.

3. Download the waypoints to Street Atlas.

4. Go online to gc.com and select the page for the appropriate cache.

5. Go to FILE|SAVE AS| create or select a folder and press <enter>. I have a c:\geocaching folder, under which there was a c:....\CorpusChristi and others. When finished with that area, I delete the sub-folders.

 

The entire page is saved to your HD and you have all the hints and tips and previous logs right there beside you when caching.

 

6. Of course, you don't carry your laptop to the cache. After parking, your Garmin takes you there. This step was added to counter the several cachers who sent me an email saying, "Hey stupid. That laptop is pretty heavy for carrying out into the woods!"

 

Oh well. After 20 years of Tech Writing, I've found it's not a good idea to skip a step when writing the manual, even if it's a "given."

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I used to use my PDA extensively for caching, but now that I have the new Garmin 60CS it is not quite so necessary. The only time I have to refer to the PDA now is when I can't find the cache, then I check the recent logs and see if there is a clue. With City Select I just tell the GPS to take me to the closes cache I haven't found. I carry my hiking and trading stuff with me so no matter what kind of cache it is I can start on my way. This has speeded up my ability to find caches immensely. The PDA is still nice for taking notes, though the 60 will let you do this but the field is pretty small.

 

:blink:

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I've been using Spinner and Plucker to get the pages to my m505. I also use Geocache Log Book to record my finds while in the field.

 

This setup has worked great. The only downside is that Plucker takes FOREVER to do its job. Recently, I switched over to the Sunrise Desktop to do the job instead. It uses the Plucker reader in my palm and works very quickly. My entire gpx file (including pics) is completed in less than a minute.

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I have only two minor complaints:

1.  Cachemate is a slow to load updates

Not anymore... the 4.0.3 release gives that a major boost, at least for merging with pre-existing database records (seemed like several times the speed re-loading 500 records on my little m125). Importing into an empty database does slow down a bit, but not much.

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I purchased and installed Cachemate 4.0.2 last week so I was surprised to learn that there was an updated version available. I've downloaded and installed 4.0.3 and I'm looking forward to seeing how much faster it processes information as I agree that 4.0.2 was slower than I liked. On the other hand, how much speed can you expect from an 8mb Palm IIIc?

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Lots of good ideas but Valley Rat.. you download your cache pages from the

web one at a time???

 

When do you have time to go caching??.. I am only using pda not laptop so

I don't get the full monty as you do.. but I download 500 at at time and wish

the geo folks would change their max to 1000.

 

Now folks are saying that is nuts. Why would you need 1000 caches at a time.

You dont have to visit them all. Its just so nice to plug in your

home zip and say give me a thousand caches. Then when you are out and about

you will have caches for hundreds of miles from home. If you see one handy and you have time.. you grab it.

 

Remember that "delete all" buttom will wipe it clean in a heartbeat.

 

happy caching

 

wingryder

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I went paperless today as well. Dug out the old Palm IIIc from the drawer that I haven't used for a couple of years. I installed cachemate. uploaded a few waypoints to it and went caching. Nice to have the description and hints readily available. The biggest surprise was how big the Palm IIIc felt compared to my SonyEricsson P800 and the 60C. When caching I had a few waypoints on the GPSr that I didn't have in Cachemate, so I'll make sure next time to load all waypoints for my area, about 400 of them, into Cacemate.

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