I Went To Geowoodstock And All I Got Was A ...

1.2k · December 8, 2004

A couple of responses to fly46

QUOTE

Once again, I did not think about the possibility of people from Nashville reading the cache page.

Have you ever been in the forums before? We refer to other caches around here all the time - not to mention how many Nashville cachers have been to your caches. Just FYI, TNLadybug, Little Ladybug and MrSimple have family in your area but live here in cacheville.

I do not read the forums. Look under my name to see how many post I have. Someone sent me an email telling me about this thread.

QUOTE

I did not look for any cache more than 10 minutes

Gee! We have a winner! Now think about this statement for a minute. You're complaining about our caches but you didn't spend any time looking? That shows me that you didn't do much else other than the numbers run.

I did not spend any more than 10 minutes looking for a cache because I found them all in less than 10 minutes. NashvilleJoe took me to some he thought were harder and I found them them right off. A couple of them where the magnetic numbers (very cleaver but I spotted them in about a minute) and the fake railroad spike-the second place I looked. The one that took me 10 minutes to find was the peephole cache which I thought was very cleaver and lots of fun. Actually now that I think of it, there was one real little micro hanging on a fence in some alley a bunch of us from St. Louis did one night that took a little longer than 10 minutes of searching but the cops came up on us and we talked to her for a while.

QUOTE

It was not intended to insult people from Nashville.

Then why did you name it after us?

Two reasons. One Nashville has lots of lame caches and is an example of the situation I do not want to see in St. Louis.

The second reason you should not read if you ever plan to do the cache. So do not read the rest of the message if you plan to do the cache.

The name of the cache and lots of the things I say in the cache are subtle hints. One of the micros is hidden in the decoy. So the not Nashville statements are hints since it is Nashville Decoys and if it is not in Nashville, it is in the decoy.

December 8, 2004

People find caches that they like to find

People hide caches like they want to find

People chouse which caches to find

There is nothing wrong with the caches in Nashville, ( we have a lot of all kinds ) but the people are going to find the caches they like, regardless what kind are out there.

The caches that have been dubbed lame here is this thread are the most found caches in the area, why “THEY ARE FUN”

Take these three caches for instance ,all placed within days of each other a year ago, and were there during GW2

Amongst The Holly by AbbysGrammy (GCHBQQ) micro, found 123 times 4 feet from the car

GCHBQQ

Chickasaw by JoGPS (GCHBA6) regular, found 33 times is 150 feet from the car

GCHBA6

Beaver Pond by moundbil (GCHBBQ small, found 13 times four mile round trip walking on nice flat trail in downtown Nashville

GCHBBQ

We welcome all to the area with open arms to have “FUN” if you do not want to have “FUN” don’t come. That’s like eating all of the cherry pie to the point of popping and then saying that pie was not fit to eat.

AS far as I am concerned I am just ducky swimming around in the big pond of life and having a blast ………………… JOE

1.8k · December 8, 2004

AS far as I am concerned I am just ducky swimming around in the big pond of life and having a blast ………………… JOE

Thats a good one ... Yeah, and your pond is LOADED with lilly pads, hehehe.

1.1k · December 8, 2004

Still my primary and basic point seems to keep being overlooked. Everyone has a right to there opinion and can express it anyway they see fit . I still maintain that singling out the people of Nashville is in poor Taste.

Fair enough...there is merit to that point.

However, sadly but truly, sometimes the most effective way to make a point like this is to cite a real-world example. Nashville's not the only region where this situation is occurring, but it's certainly one of the most glaring.

As a leading cacher in his region, Myotis is trying to make a point of what he wants his area's cache quality to be, by showing a very real example of what he believes is what NOT to do. As the Nashville'rs on this thread have accurately stated, that's not ALL there is to find in Nashville, but no one there has, or can, deny the PROLIFERATION of what Myotis, I, and others, are frustrated about...and we don't want to see that situation happen in our respective regions. Since the caches DO meet approval guidelines, another way to send a message about the situation is through subtle (or not-so-subtle) peer pressure.

In my own articles regarding cache quality, I've been very clear a. that these are my opinions and anyone's entitled to agree or disagree respectfully as they see fit, and b. that in areas I've cited (and cached extensively) such as Nashville, New Orleans, Mobile, and others, that's definitely not ALL I found there, but that it definitely constituted enough of a plurality of hides in those areas that it presented my lasting and most vivid impression of the general state of caching in those areas. True, I probably needed to do even more caches to experience ALL those areas have to offer, but in all those cases I did at least 80-100 caches...more than enough to develop an informed opinion. It is my opinion that this sort of "bombing of an area with not-well-thought-out micros" is happening in enough areas that it's taking our game in the wrong direction.

As a leading cacher in my own area, I take ownership in my area's reputation within the caching community, and I want every cacher both in and visiting my area to have a vividly POSITIVE impression of their caching experiences. I encourage every cacher in my area NOT to "hide so that Dave likes the caches" (ask anyone who's read some of my 4-DNF-attempts log entries on some of their allegedly-easy caches! ), but instead to simply think about what they think MOST OTHER PEOPLE'S opinion of their hides will be when they're done with the search. If we ALL hide with this in mind, the region's collective reputation is sure to be as positive as possible. Sadly, "some people's" not-positive impressions of an area, and why they are so, are an effective way to make the point.

I've engaged in respectful debate with many cachers in those other areas I've cited regarding my opinions. We are all entitled to our point of view. However, as a result of my articles, I've also been asked to give "cache quality" talks at many Event Caches, and I've also gotten numerous requests from local caching organizations to link to my articles...not to mention many notes of support. So, like it or not, I know I'm not alone on this issue.

-Dave R. in Biloxi

Edited December 8, 2004 by drat19

2.1k · December 8, 2004

Hello lamp post. What 'cha knowin'?
I've come to watch your flowers growin'.

one of us is TOO! old - either you for knowing that song or me for recognizing that you know it.

December 8, 2004

Hello lamp post. What 'cha knowin'?
I've come to watch your flowers growin'.

one of us is TOO! old - either you for knowing that song or me for recognizing that you know it.

Feelin' groovy, are we? :cry:

1.2k · December 8, 2004

Team Tiger said:

Ya ever think that "lame" micros may be the only caches some of our fellow geocacher may be physically able to do . Such as Handicapped cachers , or others with health problems in that a long hike may be to much for them ?

Yes. That is why I don't like lame caches. Easy and accessible caches do not have to be lame. I would think someone who cannot get the more demanding caches would rather do an easy and accessible cache in an interesting location or one with a cleaver twist than being limited to lifting lamppost covers in a shopping center parking lot.

What is lame to one may be a great way to enjoy the sport/game to another. Its been my experience when caching with children they are simply thrilled that they were able to "find" the cache at all .

Two things. Some of the people who have told me they did not like all the lame caches in Nashville were young kids. Second, I've never had someone tell me they rather lift up a lamppost cover in a Walmart parking lot than find an easy cache in an interesting location or find one with an interesting twist. Do you like lifting a lamppost better than finding a cache in a spot with a nice view or some place with historic importance?

I've spent hundreds of hours providing good quality caches for others to find. I am not asking people to do something I have not done myself. Would not Nashville be a better place to cache if the lame caches were instead in interesting locations or had a twist to be more challenging than lifting a light post?

I would point out there has been lots of changes on what is and is not allowed. Improvement comes from people indicating their dislikes. The yellow jeep locationless was so blatant, it spelled the end of any new locationless caches. People placing caching right next to one another resulted in changes. Bottom line is I want quality caches. Sure it takes a little more work to find a spot more interesting than a lamppost in a Walmart or to add an interesting twist to a cache, but it is worth the extra time. I like the numbers as much as the next person, but numbers are not everything. It is one thing to have a lame cache here and there. But Nashville is saturated with them.

To single out an Area , or fellow cacher to get "your" opinion across is just simply poor sportsmanship.

Let's see, I did not make one bad comments in any of my log entries and I set up a cache page that I did not name any names or specific caches and did not think anyone from Nashville would see it. You and others have singled me and my cache out and complained about it on the cache page and on the forums. But that is not bad sportsmanship? Sounds hypocritical to me.

I have cached in many locations around the country and have never experienced that many lame caches before. The only two places I have ever heard people complaining about is Nashville's lame caches and all the wet caches in Florida (a climate problem). I am not aware of anywhere else in the country that is saturated with lame caches. So it is hard not to single out Nashville.

And remember, the cache is my statement about lame caches in St. Louis. It was NOT intended to be an insult to people in Nashville. Some people from Nashville seem to think there is nothing wrong with saturating an area with lame caches. So then what wrong with me poking some fun at the situation?

Edited December 8, 2004 by myotis

December 8, 2004

Some thoughts from today:

I was trying to think about Geowoodstock and Myotis's numbers run from his perspective. Can you imagine being on said numbers run, and realizing after an hour or 2 that it was all lame micros, you weren't enjoying them, and that you still had 10 hours to go? Cooped up in a van with the same strangers, trying to be polite about it? It's a marvel he's still a geocacher. It's a marvel he didn't go postal! Somehow, he survived it. If it was as bad as it sounds like it must have been to him, there's this thing we have called taxis - that will come and pick you up wherever you are and take you where you want to be. We have them, even down here in the south. If I found myself stuck spending 12 hours hunting film cans in bushes in St Louis, I'd be bailing to a cab before too long.

I see Myotis is going to edit his cache page. I guess this is a good thing - I believe that he didn't intentionally mean to slam Nashville cachers in general, but he did. It's easy to not see things from all possible sides when writing cache pages, and unfortunately this one went a bit overboard, but hopefully editing it will make it the "bit of lighthearted poking of fun" that was originally intended.

Personally I don't mind lame micros. I'm not a power cacher like some others, and have a career and family to take up most of my time. So being able to find a cache or 2 whilst on the drive to work or whatever is how most of my caching gets done, and often a lame micro is all that will fit in the time slots I have.

Here's a list of the best in Nashville that was prepared just before Geowoodstock. There are a lot of other good ones also.

6.5k · December 8, 2004

If the view is so spectacular then you lose valuable time finding more caches. One 'lame' micro took me to the parking lot of a well known commercial kitchen manufacturing plant that is open for tours. As a professional chef, I really wanted to visit, but was on an agreed upon numbers run with my teammates having FUN doing that. I'll return to Franklin another time for that experinece (during daytime hours of course).

I find this a very interesting pair of statements.

I'm paraphrasing, so please correct me if I'm wrong...

If I read this correctly, you'd rather find the micro cache and move on to another micro cache instead of enjoy a spectacular view. You'd pass up on visiting a commercial kitchen manufacturing plant that has real interest for you - and instead press on to find the next lamp pole.

No inuendo here, just trying to understand your point of view.

You read me correctly Markwell. I can be rather single minded/focused at times. if I am on a numbers run with Team CHB, or even on my own-nothing else does matter but finding the next cache, of any size. I do not always hunt this way, but sometimes that goal in itself is the source of the fun. Sometimes we even run to the cache from the car! Other times, in fact most times I am caching I will stop and enjoy the view, smell the flowers, or visit an interesting attraction.

This past Sunday I combined finding a few caches with visiting several artisit studios with my wife on the annual Chatham County Artists Holiday Open House tour. We even bought a few things.

That first day in Nashville we were on a pure numbers run. This had been agreed on weeks before the trip.We researched hundreds of cache pages, split into over a dozen seperate routes. We also contacted several of the local cachers for advice. I passed on the wagon trail run at GW2 because my first Friday run had already hit many of the caches scheduled for that run. Otherwise I would have gladly signed on and enjoyed the comraderie of going for the numbers.

Now that I know where that facility is, I will make visiting it a priority on another visit. With all of the variety available in Nashville I can spend some time running up numbers, some time doing the best the city has to offer, and finally logging a 'found it :cry: ' on Da Woods after two DNF's :cry:

Back OT, I am pleased to read further down the thread that Myotis plans to edit his cache page. Perhaps the attempted humor can be made more apparent, and the mean spiritedness lessened. I believe that no offense was intended, but that fact remains that offense was taken. That has been the issue in this thread.

9.1k · December 8, 2004

Ahhh, the best of Nashville list. I found about a dozen off that list. There's also a cool list that spells out all the rest stop caches on the various interstate approach routes to Nashville. Funny thing was, a lot of the rest stop caches I found off that list were full size caches, not micros!

Anyways those lists were a huge help and I thank MTGC for putting them together. It helped in my planning. It is easier to have fun when you know what caches to look for.

1.2k · December 8, 2004

I need to add a correction. The cache I liked the most on the whole trip and the one I found in about 10 minutes in the dark was not a 4 star, but actually a five star, Monkeybrand's Pack a Lunch. In my previous post I refereed to this one as a 4 star. I thought that one was very cleaver and lots of fun. Monkeybrand had stated, "In the third case he hunted for it for over half and hour before asking a local to show him where it was. On the last one he logged that he found it quickly." I guess that is the one he is talking about. I'm not sure where he came up with this claim, but it is not true. There were 8 of us from St, Louis there with a local. This was so far out we did not have coordinates for it. So he showed us the general area it was in. I figured something was not as it appeared and would come out if you pulled on it. So I started pulling on everything until I pulled out the cache. I've had lots of practice in the St. Louis area finding caches like that. I'd rather do that than pick up a lamp post cover.

5.3k · December 8, 2004

As the MTGC guy that drove the creation of the 'Best of' and rest stop lists, you're welcome. It was my attempt - apparently lost - to show that we really do have some good stuff here. It seems like at least Lep and Wimseyguy got that.

As a Nashville cacher with family in STL (and thus more than a few finds there, including several of Myotis') and the one that made a trip back to meet with his crew after something like 14-ish hours at woodstock for some "out of the box" hunts, I'll say only that I'm sorry you had such an unpleasant experience that you felt the need to thump that tub publicly.

Thinking more about my log on 'Nashville Decoys' after visiting family in your area for Thanxgiving I've realized that TV is an even better analogy than the library I used there. I have DirectTV and Tivo. I get about a bazillion channels. Sports channels are of absolutely no interest to me so with a couple of button pushes, those channels are totally dead to me. I know they give some folks great pleasure, yet I'm neither lobbying publicly denouncing ESPN's existence nor demanding that they be stricken from the air.

Sometimes I'll make the investment of time to watch a great movie or mini-series. Somteimes I "win" and sometimes I "lose". Sometimes I just want less than challenging entertainment fed into my system. I manage to not deride watchers or creators of the Gilligans Island remake (even though one of the castaways reminds me of a Geowoodstock attendee) though it may not turn me on on my default mood and I find it unfortunate that some others lobby for or against what appears on my dial.

I took you to Monkeybrad's "Lunch" as well as "House of the Monkey" and "Oozy Rat" to show you (well, actually more RGS since he's been my pen-pal for a long time) that judging any areas' caching by the sub-onedotfive-onedotfive market was like judging TV by "Jerry Springer". Depending on your tastes, you might be tempted to sell your TV based on that, but there really are still some gems on the air. One of those very caches I personally took you to that night resulted in a clone that's in the very park (and very well done and totally enjoyable) where 'Nashville Decoys' is located, I'll admit to being perplexed why you felt the need to label "Nashville is the lame cache capital of the world." (I still have the PQ from my Thanksgiving trip there, so I know the wording on the cache page has since been toned down.)

Any densely populated caching area (and I've cacached on three US coasts, the Lakes, and Alaska, so it's not a totally unqualified analogy) is like satellite TV. The volume of Springers dwarfs the number of Soprano episodes. Some folks only want to watch one or the other. The same person may want different things at different times. Your "Pomona Natural Bridge" was special to me becuase it was bicyling distance to me from where I grew up, yet GCG627, a 1/1 virtual is probably even more special to me becuase my wife - in her electric scooter - helped me find it while we were visiting Alaska in celebration of our 15'th anniversary.

Hint: you won't find me posting cache pages deriding 1/1 Alaska virts...

5.3k · December 8, 2004

Oh, and congrats to Wimseyguy and Leprechauns for using the remote to successfully navigate to the channels containing the programs matching their current mood instead of lobbying the world to comply with their moods.

1.2k · December 8, 2004

Robert,

The night you took several of us caching was the best caching of the trip. It was lots of fun and I enjoyed it and appreciated you doing it. I have never said I did not enjoy my trip or not have fun. I did not say anything negative in any of my logs and my cache, which is hundreds of miles from Nashville, did not name any cache or cacher.

The cache approver even told me how he liked poking some fun at Nashville. This cache had an extraordinary amount of scrutiny before it finally got approved. The issue was since there were two logs and two separate caches I wanted to allow people to log the cache twice. They were cracking down on that so he did not want to approve it that way. I pointed out the special circumstances of this cache and asked for an exception. So he indicated he showed it to the other approvers to see what they thought. While I did not get an exception, I was not told of any concern about the point of view I was expressing. So I assume even the Nashville approver reviewed my cache before it was approved.

I accept their rules and changed the cache to only allow one log.

On the other hand all these lame caches get approved in Nashville. No one has touched my point that most of the lame caches appear to be on private property (shopping centers are private property) and they did not appear to have permission. Yet they get approved.

The issue is it is much more fun to find an easy cache in an interesting location or with a clever twist than lifting up a lamppost in a shopping center. I have spent hundreds of hours providing people with quality caching experiences. I am not asking people to do anything I have not done. I appreciate and enjoy it when someone takes the time to show me an neat spot, a nice walk, a good challenge, or a cleaver hide. I appreciate the time it takes to do a good quality cache. You showed me some good one. We found some on our 100 cache run, then magnetic numbers were cleaver and so was the fake railroad spike. They took some thought and time.

Anyone can throw a hundred film canisters in any old place. Hiding a hundred caches in places like lamppost is not creative and is no where near the fun as finding an easy cleaver cache. I really enjoyed the the under the mailbox cache I stumbled across on my own. That was funny, easy, and accessible. In the amount of time it took me to set up my 100th cache (a 5/5), I could have easily set up 100 lame caches.

Do you think it is a quality experience to lift a lamppost to find a cache? One of the cachers on the cache run told us that one time he went to place a cache on a lamppost and there was one there already. One of the other cachers had placed it there and forgot about it. Maybe it is hard to keep track of all the lamppost you stick a film canister in if you do a hundred of them. This is not a quality cache. On the cache run we went to get a cache on a lamppost and someone parked next to it brandished a gun. Shopping centers can be a bad place to cache.

Quality is important. Let's consider the Yellow Jeep locationless cache. Many people logged it. Even though it is achieved, it still get logged on a regular basis. Do you favor opening up locationless caches again and have a cache for every color of jeep. Why not stop there. Let's have a loggable cache for every kind and color of car.

You do not dispute there are hundreds of lame caches in Nashville, but you say you can tune them out like you do a station. As others have pointed out, that is not the case. You cannot filter them out. The only time I was not overwhelmed by the lame caches was when you took us caching. You cannot filter them out. There is not setting for a lame cache.

If there are so many great caches in Nashville, why did the 100 cache run take us to so many lame caches instead of the quality ones? The trip was not advertised as a tour of Nashville's lampposts, signs, and bushes. Is the problem all the easy ones are lame? If that is the case, why not do something about that like enforcing the rules on private property and putting placing peer pressure to spend more time to find a interesting location or add a creative twist to the cache. Surely there are plenty of interesting places in Nashville and many creative minds to add a fun twist like the magnetic numbers and mailbox.

It seems to me the pressure in Nashville is to accept lame caches. I found the number of people from Nashville who have PRIVATELY emailed me thanking me revealing. The way the guy from Nashville who was in a serious wreck got attacked here for speaking up without enough active caches makes me understand why I got so many private messages. Sduck's log on my cache urging others to delete my logs and EssPea log saying she hoped my life was short and deleting my logs also explains the reluctance to speak out. How does this kind of behavior compare to me putting up a cache page hundreds of miles from Nashville saying I do not want lame caches in St. Louis? People say it is bad taste for me to complain about lame caches, yet they post notes complaining about my cache on my cache and this forum. Unlike them, I did not post anything on the cache pages in question or name any names or caches.

You said, "I'll admit to being perplexed why you felt the need to label "Nashville is the lame cache capital of the world." (I still have the PQ from my Thanksgiving trip there, so I know the wording on the cache page has since been toned down.)" Like I have said, I did not think of the possibility of someone from Nashville reading the cache. If I had, I would have been more careful on what I said. As you note, I edited the web page when people from Nashville started taking offense.

My question to you is if Nashville is not the lame cache capitol of the world, where is? I've been to many cities and have never seen anything anywhere near what I saw in Nashville. I know many people who have cached in many places and I have never heard anyone say anywhere is like Nashville.

My final question to you and the others from Nashville is if you do not like people talking about all the lame caches in Nashville and Nashville being known for lame caches, why don't you do something about it? No one has disputed my point that the area is saturated with lame caches. No one has said they would rather lift a lamppost than find an easy cache in a spot with a nice view. No one has given any reason why cache places in Nashville could not take a little more time to find a spot more interesting than a hundred lampposts in shopping center. I've seen there are some very creative people in Nashville, but no one has explained why cachers cannot take the time to be more creative in a hid than lifting a lamppost in a shopping center or sticking a film canister on the back of any old sign.

24.7k · December 8, 2004

Completely changing the subject.

The title of this thread reminded of a T-shirt.

I Went To Geowoodstock And All I Got Was this lousy micro on a T-Shirt.

2.5k · December 8, 2004

And yet, I'm willing to bet in all your complaints that you never noticed that all the Sit A Spell caches were nice places to sit, that the Steeple Chase ones take you around to area churches, or that the dalmatian caches are aranged by litters and each litter has a theme.

No one has disputed my point that the area is saturated with lame caches.

I do believe that MonkeyBrad said that there are 300 micros and 1300 other caches. So, it thus looks like you're judging us by less than 20% of our total caches.

December 8, 2004

I guess it all comes down to your right to judge. Nashville has many so-called "lame caches", Nashville also has many excellent caches. I have found all of them, the excellent caches outweigh the lame, but if you only spend three days looking for easy caches you could not possibly know that. I do know what is here and yet I do not claim the right to judge my fellow cachers or to declare their caches lame, just because they are not necessarily fun to me.

When you complain that you are being attacked by Nashville cachers you seem to be forgetting that you took the first shot here and you have never once apologized for anything, not even any misunderstandings you may have caused. You have consistently used, "I didn't think anyone would see it" as your only excuse for being rude to an entire community. You have the right to say whatever you like, but I have talked to the parties you were involved with while you were here in town and examined your logs. You are distorting the truth in some cases, making statements that you cannot back up in others and flat out lying in another case. It is OK, if your conscience allows you to live with that, then do, but you have done Nashville, yourself and the geocaching community at large a disservice.

EDIT: spelling

Edited December 8, 2004 by Monkeybrad

4.8k · December 8, 2004

Completely changing the subject.

The title of this thread reminded of a T-shirt.

I Went To Geowoodstock And All I Got Was this lousy micro on a T-Shirt.

I want a shirt that says "I went to Geowoodstock and got many new friends."

Anyway, I went to Geowoodstock, found some cool caches and then found several hundred lightpoles and guardrails. Although I don't plan to actively seek any further light pole micros, it was not a lame experience for me. Why? Because it involved finding the caches in a fun manner over a 24 hour period with some wonderful company. I think quite a few other people liked the experience as well. I purposely planned to do them that way, so that I would enjoy caches that I might not otherwise choose to find. The rest of the time there, I sorted out and sought other types of caches (see The Leprechauns' previous posts).

Anyway, I like the idea of illustrating an opinion of what is a good or bad micro through a cache page, but personally I would have found a way to do it that did not directly insult other cachers, a specific region or event. But as far as I know the site doesn't refuse to list caches that otherwise meet the guidelines just because some might dislike some of the language on the cache page. So the cache is technically OK in the sense that I don't think it violates any listing guidelines. That doesn't mean it is nice though. I can see why some have taken offense to the way it was worded. But to each his or her own there I guess.

Oh well, you all go back to micro arguments now. I don't take part in that angst much anymore so I won't post more on that aspect of it.

December 8, 2004

We loved Nashville and all of its caches and are already planning another trip.

9.1k · December 8, 2004

I am now wondering if Myotis will stop at nothing to make his point. In his latest post he seems to now be pointing a finger at the volunteer cache reviewers. The reviewers apply the listing guidelines to the submissions they receive. If the cache meets the guidelines, they're supposed to list it, and if it doesn't, they're supposed to archive it or work with the owner to modify it.

It sounds like Myotis' lamp posts cache did not meet the guidelines originally because of the cache saturation rule, but that the volunteer worked with him to find a way that it would meet the guidelines. There is no guideline governing making fun of another cache or style of caches, so that would not have been a valid basis for turning down this cache. That does not mean that Geocaching.com "approves" of the language on the cache page. Caches are *listed* -- not approved in the sense of being endorsed for quality of message, etc. The terms of use spell out the limits of bad taste. I would think that a cache making fun of an ethnic group would not be listed for that reason.

Turning to the second implication, that the listing site is somehow at fault for allowing caches in Wal-Mart parking lots, I would first say that it is the owner's job to obtain "adequate permission" and this is assumed when a cache is submitted. If there is a published policy, like on a state park website, the volunteers have something to ask questions about. I don't know that Wal-Mart has a geocaching policy. And Myotis doesn't know whether anyone in Tennessee or elsewhere has ever looked into the matter with Wal-Mart or anyone else like Wal-Mart.

On top of that, there is a difference between "private property" such as a residence or a tract of woods owned by a private landowner, on the one hand, and a privately owned business parking lot to which the public is invited, on the other hand.

If the reviewers quizzed each cache hider to prove that they had permission for each cache hide, listings would slow down considerably and these forums would be ablaze in flames.

If the reviewers turned down cache submissions because the cache was "a lame micro in a lamp post" or the cache "might offend geocachers in Nashville," listings would slow down considerably and these forums would be ablaze in flames.

1.1k · December 8, 2004

...sticking a film canister on the back of any old sign.

Myotis, you know I'm your #1 supporter on this thread, but in reference to the snippet above, I will make this comment in fairness: In contrast to the many series of random lamppost/guardrail/rockpile/bush base/near-a-dumpster caches in the metro area (on which we unequivocally agree!), I personally found R0b's Way Sign series in the Vandy area to be quite enjoyable.

Having said that, I will also comment that I did my 3-day Nashville run not during GW2, but as a solo cacher last December. As a soloist, I didn't have a "wheelman/woman" so that I could jump out to grab caches on curb pullovers, so I had to park and do the Vandy series on foot. The result was that I experienced a most enjoyable 3-hour walk over a 2-day period throughout the area - it was a great way to experience it. R0b even contacted me via Email after my first evening and offered to let me take the whole series as Finds even after I got rained out halfway through it one of the days...I thanked him and went ahead and completed my tour the next morning with all Finds as "legit".

By contrast (and in agreement with you), there's no "alternative/pleasant" way to experience the random lamppost/guardrail/rockpile/bush base/near-a-dumpster caches that litter the region...drive up, dodge cops/security/suspicious onlookers, grab, sign, and replace cache. Lather, rinse, repeat. Whoopity doo.

-Dave R.

Edited December 8, 2004 by drat19

9.1k · December 8, 2004

By contrast, there's no "alternative/pleasant" way to experience the random lamppost/guardrail/rockpile/bush base/near-a-dumpster caches that litter the region.

Not in your opinion, anyways. I managed to find a way. But that's just me.

1.1k · December 8, 2004

By contrast, there's no "alternative/pleasant" way to experience the random lamppost/guardrail/rockpile/bush base/near-a-dumpster caches that litter the region.

Not in your opinion, anyways. I managed to find a way. But that's just me.

OK, fair enough (sincerely)...I agree that the company you kept that day certainly contributed to making the tedium of those caches much more bearable.

-Dave R.

9.1k · December 8, 2004

Precisely. That, and doing 200 of them. As I stated above, doing one guardrail cache as my geocaching mission for the day would suck, IN MY OPINION. For one cache, I'd much prefer a five-mile hike. But there are other posts in this thread by others who appreciate them. If Fly46 is out shopping and there's a micro at that shopping center, or if sduck only has time for one cache on the way home from a long day at work to see his family, or if Abby's Grammy can only stroll up to a lamp post with her cane instead of bushwacking into a ravine, and they're all happy to up their find count by one, that's cool too.

December 8, 2004

Can't someone lock this thread? All that seems to be going on is a pointless agrument of the two camps saying the same things over and over again.

In the time it took me to read this thread, I could have placed at least 10 lame lamppost micros..... but since I am relatively close to Drat19, as soon as I placed one such lamp post micro, he would beat me to a pulp at the next Mississippi Geocachers gathering....

Edited December 8, 2004 by Maclir

1.1k · December 8, 2004

But there are other posts in this thread by others who appreciate them. If Fly46 is out shopping and there's a micro at that shopping center, or if sduck only has time for one cache on the way home from a long day at work to see his family, or if Abby's Grammy can only stroll up to a lamp post with her cane instead of bushwacking into a ravine, and they're all happy to up their find count by one, that's cool too.

And yet those same appreciators continue to ignore the fact that it is possible to place equally easy, equally mobility-impaired-friendly, caches in locations that are more worthwhile to visit and equally convenient, if only more THOUGHT AND EFFORT were put into them. And they also ignore one of my mantras that I know for a FACT (from NUMEROUS supportive emails I've received) that MANY others agree with: "Just because a location CAN support a cache hide doesn't necessaily mean that it SHOULD." And another mantra: "If that means hiding fewer caches but keeping the quality high, then that's what it means."

Again, my opinions...many agree, some disagree, and that's OK.

-Dave R.

1.1k · December 8, 2004

In the time it took me to read this thread, I could have placed at least 10 lame lamppost micros..... but since I am relatively close to Drat19, as soon as I placed one such lamp post micro, he would beat me to a pulp at the next Mississippi Geocachers gathering....

Maclir, my brother, you know me better than that! I would never do that if you placed one. However, our PEER GROUP would certainly voice their opinions to you if you placed 10, 20, 50, or more. Perhaps you've noticed, our group's encouragement of cache quality (and while I'm certainly the most vocal, I'm also certainly not ALONE on this) is one reason why on the whole, Mississippi cache quality is just GREAT pretty much throughout the state.

-Dave R.

Edited December 8, 2004 by drat19

December 8, 2004

Well, I started it, I guess I get to close it. Thread closed. Sorry if you didn't get your 2 cents in.

I Went To Geowoodstock And All I Got Was A ...

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