Gambrill State Park Cache #1

[3#Goose]

The above Geo Cache is located on private property. Please do not trespass, especially during hunting season!!!!! Opening day none the less.

 

I sent a e-mail message to to Groundspeak last week and have not had a response and the directions leading to our property have not been removed.

 

I wanted to make people aware of this problem and to prevent it from happening again. I was approached by a family of 5 on opening day of rifle hunting season at(I was in the exact location of the cache). It is illegal to tresspass and to cause interference of a person who is hunting.

 

Please be safe in the woods and wear florescent orange during the season while in the woods (hunters do!).

[+robert]

Thanks for the info on this. Looks like the cache has been around a LONG time. Have you tried contacting the owner of the cache or just gc.com? Doesn't look like the owner is active anymore.

 

Cache page is here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC5A5

 

I've put a note on our forums about it, see if anyone knows anything about it.

[+briansnat]

The map shows it to be in the middle of the state park. If it is indeed on private property, you can post a "needs archived" log and explain the situation in the log. The local admin will get immediate notification if you do that. E-mails to Groundspeak can take forever to get a response due to the volume so you will get a quicker response with the "needs archved" log.

 

It looks like the owner is no longer in the US and hasn't logged onto the site in quite a while. So if the admin does see fit to archive it, it will probably be up to you to remove it. There is a travel bug in there, which is someone's property. You should make sure you move that along somehow.

Edited December 2, 2004 by briansnat

[+briansnat]

Now every map I've looked at show this to be in the park. The state's own park maps show it to be in the High Nob Scenic Area.

 

Edited December 2, 2004 by briansnat

[Keystone]

Moreover, the cache page indicates that it is placed with the approval of the Maryland State Parks, under their permit system... one of the earliest permit systems adopted.

[+DaisyChain]

The caches in Gambrills were temporarily archived pending approval. This one made it back.

 

I live a stone's throw from this cache. A couple of days after FBS67 and I started caching, we went walking up here. Unfortunately, we didn't have a very good GPS. So we walked around, following the directions but never got to the cache. We also never left state property. We ran out of time and had to throw it in. I didn't even know about the DNF @ that point so I didn't post that either.

[+splicingdan]

It is illegal to tresspass and to cause interference of a person who is hunting.

 

According to Maryland's hunting laws, "interference" is illegal only if intentional.

 

Although, hunting appears to be legal in Gambrill State Park.

[+Harrald]

This appears just to be a hunter that is upset his hunting area is being used for other legit uses.

 

Sorry chief, but that cache has a permit to use the land also.

[3#Goose]

The first part of the cache directions are on the park property, however in the second part of the description (See below) the "old fire trail" leads to our property, the large quartz rock is directly next to the posted state property, the bluff is not park property.

---------

Start off at the first overlook with a beautiful view of Middletown Valley. From the overlook follow the trail to your right, which is marked as black, to 39° 28.108N by 077° 29.820W. This is the site of your next overlook, be careful on the ledge it is a long way down. Get back on the trail and continue in the same direction you were walking for another .94 miles. The trail will eventually changes from a black marked trail which splits to your right, to a yellow marked trail. Just continues in a straight direction on the yellow marked trail.

 

At the .94 mile point you should come across an old fire trail. Take a left onto the fire trail and proceed down 200 ft. till you come to a large white quartz rock on your left. Turn to your left, keeping yourself on the trail, and face the large rock. The rock points directly to the cache (take a quick bearing). From the rock follow the bearing you attained into the woods for about 90 paces. The cache is hidden in the face of the bluff that’s directly before you. The cache is in a clear 12" X 12" X 5" Rubbermaid container with a tan top. This is the first of several caches we plan to place in the park. We also plan to add some more goodies later to this cache as well. Good luck and happy hunting.

[+JMBella]

This appears just to be a hunter that is upset his hunting area is being used for other legit uses.

 

Sorry chief, but that cache has a permit to use the land also.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[+splicingdan]

The first part of the cache directions are on the park property, however in the second part of the description (See below) the "old fire trail" leads to our property, the large quartz rock is directly next to the posted state property, the bluff is not park property.

 

If that is accurate, then you are 100% justified.

If you feel that the parties involved are being unresponsive just remove the cache yourself and post a note on the cache page. Otherwise cachers will continue to visit because relatively few people read this forum.

[+Mopar]

The first part of the cache directions are on the park property, however in the second part of the description (See below) the "old fire trail" leads to our property, the large quartz rock is directly next to the posted state property, the bluff is not park property.

 

If that is accurate, then you are 100% justified.

If you feel that the parties involved are being unresponsive just remove the cache yourself and post a note on the cache page. Otherwise cachers will continue to visit because relatively few people read this forum.

That's the WRONG thing to do.

The cache is still someone else's property, AND, since the cache has a state issued permit, I would assume the park rangers went out and approved the location. If it wasn't state park property, it wouldn't need a permit.

Also, looking at ALL the maps, there is no way the spot the cache is in is private property, every single map puts it well inside the park. Tell me 3#goose, have you actually found the cache or are u guessing where it is by the description? Did you look at all the maps Briansnat posted? Did you notice that the DNR approved the location of the cache?

Edited December 3, 2004 by Mopar

[+robert]

we're going to try to get someone out there this weekend to check on the cache placement since the owner is MIA. hope we can get it done.

 

[+briansnat]

we're going to try to get someone out there this weekend to check on the cache placement since the owner is MIA.  hope we can get it done.

 

Be sure to wear orange! If you can't make it, 3#Goose should go the "needs archived" log route. If he just removes it it won't keep people from going there.

Edited December 3, 2004 by briansnat

[Keystone]

I found the trail map to be the most helpful in analyzing the latest claim (i.e., that the recommended "offset point" requires the geocacher to cross onto private property). At that point, the instructions have the geocacher traveling on the yellow trail. Note that the black trail is farther to the west ... i.e., the park border... than the yellow trail.

 

When someone leaves the yellow trail and moves 200 feet west on the fire road, the claim is that they are on private property. This doesn't square with the park maps. Perhaps the property owner ought to be talking to the park about their maps or any boundary dispute that may exist, or should post his land.

 

Robert, if you do take a trip to investigate, please take pictures to establish the surroundings of the final few hundred feet of the cache, taking special note of any signs, markers, fences, etc. that suggest a boundary line. Then, feel free to contact me with your findings. Geocaching.com does take seriously any claim that a cache infringes on private property. Just not convinced here yet.

[magellan315]

Cache page is here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC5A5

Check the most recent log. Looks like Mister Landowner has removed the cache and turned in to the rangers.

[+splicingdan]

That's the WRONG thing to do.

The cache is still someone else's property, AND, since the cache has a state issued permit, I would assume the park rangers went out and approved the location. If it wasn't state park property, it wouldn't need a permit.

Also, looking at ALL the maps, there is no way the spot the cache is in is private property, every single map puts it well inside the park. Tell me 3#goose, have you actually found the cache or are u guessing where it is by the description? Did you look at all the maps Briansnat posted? Did you notice that the DNR approved the location of the cache?

 

How is that the wrong thing to do?

If the cache is indeed on this person's property, he has every right to remove it regardless of the fact that the cache is someone else's property.

Mister Landowner (as he is now calling himself) has made a mostly friendly attempt to rectify a problem through the proper channels and is receiving only hostility in return.

 

Maybe the cache is in the State Park.

Maybe the location was approved by the Park Rangers and granted permits.

 

BUT, this guy seems to know his property well enough to identify the location from a worded description and we are in NY, NJ, and CT saying that he's mistaken.

[Keystone]

In light of the cache's removal by Mister Landowner, I have temporarily disabled this cache and left a note on the cache page for the owner.

 

I do hope that the State of Maryland updates all the maps!

[+briansnat]

At least he was nice enough to turn it in. He could have tossed it in the trash. I hope someone can stop by and get that TB though.

[avroair]

If the cache is indeed on this person's property, he has every right to remove it regardless of the fact that the cache is someone else's property.

 

Couldn't agree more.

If someone put their stuff on my property. I would consider it mine

Possession is 9/10ths of the law right?

[+robert]

Robert, if you do take a trip to investigate, please take pictures to establish the surroundings of the final few hundred feet of the cache, taking special note of any signs, markers, fences, etc. that suggest a boundary line. Then, feel free to contact me with your findings. Geocaching.com does take seriously any claim that a cache infringes on private property. Just not convinced here yet.

Oh well, since it's been archived, we'll see about getting the TB if possible.

[Keystone]

Huh? The cache has not been archived.

[+robert]

"Temporarily disabled" then.

[MapheadMike]

Update?

Landowner claim, T or F?

Cache rescued from the office?

[+robert]

There seems to be a grey area between where the park says their boundaries are and where the "No Trespassing" signs begin. This is where the cache was. Last I knew the cache was in the hands of the ranger. Not sure if we were able to get the TB back yet, but I'll ask the cacher who went on recon in the area.

[MapheadMike]

Oh lovely, a boundary dispute. That'll be fun for all park users, not just cachers.

 

I can't imagine any cachers have gone to look at the parcel or tax maps in the area, but we do use topomaps here. Any idea which version of the boundary is supported by the USGS maps?

[+robert]

No clue.

 

If the property owner feels it's on his property, he's probably right. No sense in making a bad situation worse--if the cache gets replaced, it should probably be moved somewhere else so as not to make the guy mad(der).

[+robert]

 

DaisyChain took a look and marked some spots. From Mapsource it looks like it may have been off the park property.

 

Guess this one is "case closed" for now--cache is disabled and AFAIK gone from its spot.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help.

 

edit: fix url for image.

Edited December 28, 2004 by robert