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Please! Please trade equal... BEWARE! RANT AHEAD!


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I know that this topic gets dogged and I don't want to beat a seemingly dead horse, but I see a lot of new cachers coming through my area who think that it is okay to take three or four items and leave a Jack-in-the-box antenna ball or a pen.

 

Come on! I just read where some folks near here had taken a travel bug and two other nice items from a cache and left the FREE item above in exchange. I KNOW that it isn't about the goodies (r-i-g-h-t) and I know it is all about the hunt (okay) BUT if everybody takes three items and leaves one, how long do you think it will take for that cache to be empty? Or to have nothing in it that anyone else wants?

 

"Well, I had three different Jack antenna balls to choose from so I took nothing, left nothing!"

 

If I was new, that kind of thing wouldn't turn me on to caching much, WHETHER OR NOT I AM IN IT FOR THE STUFF. It is just the principal of the thing. If you didn't bring anything nice, don't take anything nice. Common sense.

 

The first time out I can kinda understand it, but I've seen the same folks do it time after time. You all (if you read these forums at all) know that I don't hesitate to type what I feel, so should I email the obvious offenders and say (in a polite way) WTF? I mean, maybe their mommas didn't teach 'em no better? Maybe they is related to the Peacocks (X-File reference)?

 

Just please people... you don't have to trade up all the time, but at least trade FAIR!

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

I know that this topic gets dogged and I don't want to beat a seemingly dead horse, but I see a lot of new cachers coming through my area who think that it is okay to take three or four items and leave a Jack-in-the-box antenna ball or a pen.


 

Would that pen be of the working or non-working variety? icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

Come on! I just read where some folks near here had taken a travel bug and two other nice items from a cache and left the FREE item above in exchange. ... if everybody takes three items and leaves one, how long do you think it will take for that cache to be empty? Or to have nothing in it that anyone else wants?


 

If you feel so strongly about it, you should send them a friendly e-mail explaining your understanding of proper caching etiquette.

 

But yeah, happens all the time ... I guess that's why one finds so many new caches containing only a logbook, a pen, and perhaps one "Where's George" dollar or small trinket; the cache owners are expecting the early visitors to "populate" the cache ... or not.

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

I know that this topic gets dogged and I don't want to beat a seemingly dead horse, but I see a lot of new cachers coming through my area who think that it is okay to take three or four items and leave a Jack-in-the-box antenna ball or a pen.


 

Would that pen be of the working or non-working variety? icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

Come on! I just read where some folks near here had taken a travel bug and two other nice items from a cache and left the FREE item above in exchange. ... if everybody takes three items and leaves one, how long do you think it will take for that cache to be empty? Or to have nothing in it that anyone else wants?


 

If you feel so strongly about it, you should send them a friendly e-mail explaining your understanding of proper caching etiquette.

 

But yeah, happens all the time ... I guess that's why one finds so many new caches containing only a logbook, a pen, and perhaps one "Where's George" dollar or small trinket; the cache owners are expecting the early visitors to "populate" the cache ... or not.

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isn't a Travel Bug a separate category? Sometimes I have taken a Travel Bug and not left anything. I have then taken the travel bug out for a night on the town only to replace it in another cache the very next day, complete with pictures.

 

I don't always have a Travel Bug to replace it with when I pick it up. But, for me, it is more enjoyable to find them and try to replace them quickly with a good story.

 

Again, I agree, most of the time I don't bring an item to trade, so I don't take one. I used to bring CD's a lot, but it is rare to find a cache that will fit one, so I sort of stopped.

 

Signing the logbook is enough for me, I don't need another magnet or bottle opener or crayon etc. But, if I see a Travel Bug it comes with me for the day.

 

Am I wrong? Thoughts?

 

(totally fooling around with the tm thing icon_biggrin.gif )

 

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com

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isn't a Travel Bug a separate category? Sometimes I have taken a Travel Bug and not left anything. I have then taken the travel bug out for a night on the town only to replace it in another cache the very next day, complete with pictures.

 

I don't always have a Travel Bug to replace it with when I pick it up. But, for me, it is more enjoyable to find them and try to replace them quickly with a good story.

 

Again, I agree, most of the time I don't bring an item to trade, so I don't take one. I used to bring CD's a lot, but it is rare to find a cache that will fit one, so I sort of stopped.

 

Signing the logbook is enough for me, I don't need another magnet or bottle opener or crayon etc. But, if I see a Travel Bug it comes with me for the day.

 

Am I wrong? Thoughts?

 

(totally fooling around with the tm thing icon_biggrin.gif )

 

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com

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quote:
Originally posted by The Heavenly Host:

isn't a Travel Bug a separate category? Sometimes I have taken a Travel Bug and not left anything. I have then taken the travel bug out for a night on the town only to replace it in another cache the very next day, complete with pictures.


 

I agree. People don't take travel bugs. They just help move them along.

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That's the way I look at it ... as far as travel bugs ... just snag them and move them along. But trade equally or better yet trade at a loss .. it helps the game ... take two items ... leave two or three of a little better value ... or take nothing. I have taken something of volume ... just to create room ... but usually that item(s) get dropped at the next cache I visit. Some caches can get loaded with junk ... I've got to do my maint. run on a few of my caches ... can't wait to see their status!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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Another newbie question here....

 

I can completely see and agree with the fact that you should at the very least trade fair...I plan to do this with my kids.

 

I had figured I would check and see what the initial "theme" of the particular GeoCache we were heading for was...and get some items that were different, but would stick with it.

 

Holly, Nathan, Morgan, Madison and Max

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

...leave a Jack-in-the-box antenna ball or a pen...

 

"Well, I had three different Jack antenna balls to choose from so I took nothing, left nothing!"


 

I know this sounds crazy but a Jack-in-the-Box antenna ball could be a hot item in Indiana.

 

Last November/December, I spent a couple of weeks in Las Vegas (losing money at Binion's Poker Tables) and managed to get a couple of antenna balls from Jacks. (These were the ones with the scarf and winter hat.) Everybody wanted one becasue they were so cute!

 

...so bring them to Indiana!

 

The best things in life are not things...

 

Now Open... http://www.geoindiana.com <-Click It! You know you want to!

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I am just starting, but it seems that the most common thing I find is either that the cache is all full of trinkets for kids or has one good thing and several things that are not so good.

 

I try to bring interesting things, but I am not always sure what to leave. Kiddie toys are not what I am about, so I ignore them. I also don't buy them, so I couldn't just trade junk for junk.

 

Might be good to start a topic in the "getting started" section that helps new players with this situation, as at least as far as I can see, its pretty darn common.

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Send 'em an email! If we all ignore it it will just get worse.

 

In the past, my wife would go through the trinkets while I signed the log. Now she won't even touch the cache. Junk, junk, and more dirty, crappy junk. I know they didn't start out that way.

 

The best (and probably the only) thing we can do is educate. Bring the topic up every so often since new players join every day. Rant! Let them know that "this is unacceptable. Respectable cachers don't do this."

 

I am sick of hearing "Oh, that's just the way it is, not much we can do about it." (Usually combined with "Don't change things, things work just fine now.") I say "do something". Send them an email and let them know just how you (and many of us) feel.

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I saw a post today .. on a cache I've been watching ..."left pair of sunglasses I found near cache ... took toy car". Glad they found the sun glasses ... or they would probably have left a couple of rocks and a stick! icon_biggrin.gif

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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I saw a post today .. on a cache I've been watching ..."left pair of sunglasses I found near cache ... took toy car". Glad they found the sun glasses ... or they would probably have left a couple of rocks and a stick! icon_biggrin.gif

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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quote:

I am sick of hearing "Oh, that's just the way it is, not much we can do about it." (Usually combined with "Don't change things, things work just fine now.") I say "do something".


 

Let's see ... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there. icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

Actually he has done quite a lot to further the quality of caching ... in several avenues ... so, be nice.


 

That's caches, NOT caching ... so, be accurate, please.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:47 AM.]

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quote:

I am sick of hearing "Oh, that's just the way it is, not much we can do about it." (Usually combined with "Don't change things, things work just fine now.") I say "do something".


 

Let's see ... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there. icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

Actually he has done quite a lot to further the quality of caching ... in several avenues ... so, be nice.


 

That's caches, NOT caching ... so, be accurate, please.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:47 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there. icon_wink.gif

 

Actually he has done quite a lot to further the quality of caching ... in several avenues ... so, be nice.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there. icon_wink.gif

 

Actually he has done quite a lot to further the quality of caching ... in several avenues ... so, be nice.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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quote:
Originally posted by The Heavenly Host:

isn't a Travel Bug a separate category?


 

Yes, I was just quoting from a cache log I had recently read. I don't consider a TB something to be traded. As other responses enforce, they are to be moved along, the faster the better.

 

My main issue was with people that take two or three items and leave one. I do care what the quality of the item left compared to taken is, but that is a subject for many other threads (just enter "trading up" into a search to find many, many more).

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quote:
Let's see ... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there.

 

Let' check Bassoons profile.....

 

Caches Found/Hidden: 448/12

 

Hmmmm seems that you average nearly 40 finds per hide. That would mean that geospotter with 26 finds can go awhile before he needs to hide a cache. That is if he wants to maintain your average [:(]

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

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quote:
Let's see ... 172 posts vs 26 finds, no hides. Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there.

 

Let' check Bassoons profile.....

 

Caches Found/Hidden: 448/12

 

Hmmmm seems that you average nearly 40 finds per hide. That would mean that geospotter with 26 finds can go awhile before he needs to hide a cache. That is if he wants to maintain your average [icon_wink.gif]

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

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quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:

The best (and probably the only) thing we can do is educate. Bring the topic up every so often since new players join every day. Rant! Let them know that "this is unacceptable. Respectable cachers don't do this."

 

I am sick of hearing "Oh, that's just the way it is, not much we can do about it." (Usually combined with "Don't change things, things work just fine now.") I say "do something". Send them an email and let them know just how you (and many of us) feel.


 

Wow, I really appreciate that you can see my perspective on this. I was expecting mostly negative comments!

 

I just read a cache log today where someone "took a keyring, left a business card"... um, WHO would want that business card? Is a business card a trade item? I would never have thought so. If it is a card with all of the required spots punched for a free sandwich or ice cap or something, that might be nice. But a business card? Thanks for advertising but that isn't a trade item.

 

We leave our Geocaching calling cards in caches we visit just to let folks know we were there. We don't expect them to be trade items, though I can see where some folks might collect stuff like that, but that isn't why we leave them.

 

Oh, and Geospotter? I don't care what BassoonPilot things of your found/hidden ratio. There are some folks who think that someone shouldn't place a cache until they have found 20 or more caches! You contribute a great deal to these forums and you are enjoying the sport. No one really expects more from you than that... oh and that you continue to show your wonderful level of integrity while caching!

 

Thanks!

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

... There are some folks who think that someone shouldn't place a cache until they have found 20 or more caches!


 

Now it's twenty? Last week it was 10. Next week, increase it to 500; it'll still be hogwash.

 

Obviously, I don't believe it's necessary to have found even one cache in order to do a terrific job hiding caches. All one has to do is "go out and get dirty" and use a little imagination. That's forwarding the sport. Sitting at the computer telling others what to do and how to do it, particularly when one's own actual participation has been quite limited, is of somewhat lesser value, in my opinion.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:48 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

I notice you didn't say anything about the more important relationship mentioned of posts/finds. Mine is a bit higher than 1/1. Perhaps I post too often; would you suggest I post less or cache more? icon_wink.gif


 

The problem with statistics isn't generally the numbers, but the interpretation.

 

Look, your count is quite high for the time interval, and you used homepage statistics, instead of, say, reason or logic, to attack another person's thoughts. To me, that says obsessive compulsive and insecure. IE, you see your own statistics as a measure of self worth. A yardstick, even, to measure yourself against others.

 

Frankly, I can think of, oh, a 100,000 things off the top of head to better measure oneself against others - starting with things like honesty, courage, public service, etc. and running right down to far lesser virtues like tidy nails and NOT humming Broadway show tunes incessantly in elevators... But, the problem with my scales is that once a person attains any measurable stature on one of them, they have generally reached a level of maturity where they do not feel that they constantly need to compare themselves to others.

 

So, we'll use your scale. *Gasp*, my count remains 0/0, while my posts keep stacking up! Of course, I'm responsible for over 2,000 free aerial and topo maps being served up a day, 500 of which I estimate go to cachers. And, I've participated in clean-ups and trail maintanence drives at parks and rec areas all over SoCal - a hot bed of caching - for as long as the sport has existed (longer, actually). So, using your, uh, logic, your contribution to the sport must be staggering. Assuming that 'infinity' is not practical and giving me a mercy score of one, you are still contributing about 450 times as much to the sport as me. At that ratio, even my modest contributions would explode into a pretty big chunk of time and money...

 

Seriously, get a life. Are you *really* saying that you think your stats here mean squat as a citation of authority? If so, rant on, I'll get back to you after your voice changes and you sprout pubic hair. I have small children in my own family already.

 

Actually on topic - the trinkets relates to something Hawkeye and I talked about awhile back. For quite a long time, I wouldn't let my children take items. I wanted the hunt to be enough. They still aren't allowed to post for several reasons, one of which being that I don't want them to think that the numbers mean anything.

 

Once trading entered the picture, we started leaving items which the girls pay for themselves. Always taking something of less value, and always bagging trash, gives an opportunity to take something pretty unimportant in the great scheme of things, like Geocaching, and use it to stress each individual's obligations to self, family, and community. If you play, you carry your weight and you keep things going, and so on...

 

Kids watch. Caching can be a nice family activity. Time together, a walk outside... But, if you aren't trading fair, you are also teaching a lesson. Ask yourself, do you want them proud of the count ('we found XXX!!!') or a 'free' trinket? Or, would you rather that they be proud of the small investment in time and money that they made to further the sport each time you go out with them?

 

-jjf

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

I notice you didn't say anything about the more important relationship mentioned of posts/finds. Mine is a bit higher than 1/1. Perhaps I post too often; would you suggest I post less or cache more? icon_wink.gif


 

The problem with statistics isn't generally the numbers, but the interpretation.

 

Look, your count is quite high for the time interval, and you used homepage statistics, instead of, say, reason or logic, to attack another person's thoughts. To me, that says obsessive compulsive and insecure. IE, you see your own statistics as a measure of self worth. A yardstick, even, to measure yourself against others.

 

Frankly, I can think of, oh, a 100,000 things off the top of head to better measure oneself against others - starting with things like honesty, courage, public service, etc. and running right down to far lesser virtues like tidy nails and NOT humming Broadway show tunes incessantly in elevators... But, the problem with my scales is that once a person attains any measurable stature on one of them, they have generally reached a level of maturity where they do not feel that they constantly need to compare themselves to others.

 

So, we'll use your scale. *Gasp*, my count remains 0/0, while my posts keep stacking up! Of course, I'm responsible for over 2,000 free aerial and topo maps being served up a day, 500 of which I estimate go to cachers. And, I've participated in clean-ups and trail maintanence drives at parks and rec areas all over SoCal - a hot bed of caching - for as long as the sport has existed (longer, actually). So, using your, uh, logic, your contribution to the sport must be staggering. Assuming that 'infinity' is not practical and giving me a mercy score of one, you are still contributing about 450 times as much to the sport as me. At that ratio, even my modest contributions would explode into a pretty big chunk of time and money...

 

Seriously, get a life. Are you *really* saying that you think your stats here mean squat as a citation of authority? If so, rant on, I'll get back to you after your voice changes and you sprout pubic hair. I have small children in my own family already.

 

Actually on topic - the trinkets relates to something Hawkeye and I talked about awhile back. For quite a long time, I wouldn't let my children take items. I wanted the hunt to be enough. They still aren't allowed to post for several reasons, one of which being that I don't want them to think that the numbers mean anything.

 

Once trading entered the picture, we started leaving items which the girls pay for themselves. Always taking something of less value, and always bagging trash, gives an opportunity to take something pretty unimportant in the great scheme of things, like Geocaching, and use it to stress each individual's obligations to self, family, and community. If you play, you carry your weight and you keep things going, and so on...

 

Kids watch. Caching can be a nice family activity. Time together, a walk outside... But, if you aren't trading fair, you are also teaching a lesson. Ask yourself, do you want them proud of the count ('we found XXX!!!') or a 'free' trinket? Or, would you rather that they be proud of the small investment in time and money that they made to further the sport each time you go out with them?

 

-jjf

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1) they may not 'get it'

2) if they get it, they may now be better at trading since they know someone's noticing....

 

i visited my first cache today (noooob)

 

It's called 'Arlington Movie Cache'. It began 40/60 dvd's and vhs... it's devolved into an vhs-only, 60min audio cassette, cd-single (music) cache.

 

I still left the DVD i brought with me, and took Road Warrior VHS.... another DVD woulda been nice [since we no longer have a vhs in the living room icon_frown.gif ]

 

it's not earth shattering, and we'll keep going to others, I just can't imagine being the people who traded short...

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1) they may not 'get it'

2) if they get it, they may now be better at trading since they know someone's noticing....

 

i visited my first cache today (noooob)

 

It's called 'Arlington Movie Cache'. It began 40/60 dvd's and vhs... it's devolved into an vhs-only, 60min audio cassette, cd-single (music) cache.

 

I still left the DVD i brought with me, and took Road Warrior VHS.... another DVD woulda been nice [since we no longer have a vhs in the living room icon_frown.gif ]

 

it's not earth shattering, and we'll keep going to others, I just can't imagine being the people who traded short...

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Pet peeve: "devolved" doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

Hey, lookie there, my post count is way higher than my find count, too. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that it's a lot easier to find time to fire off a quick, occasionally helpful post than it is to go collect Warm, drive to the site, and find a cache. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that we've found all but three of the caches within a reasonable distance of our home waypoints. Maybe I talk too much. Maybe all of the above.

 

In any case, why does anyone have to contribute to the sport? Is the sport going to go away if I personally don't stop posting and start collecting ticks?

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

I notice you didn't say anything about the more important relationship mentioned of posts/finds. Mine is a bit higher than 1/1. Perhaps I post too often; would you suggest I post less or cache more? icon_wink.gif


 

If the number of posts really meant something in the general scheme of Geocaching, then regardless of posts-to-caches found ratio, you are right up there with KD7MXI (aka: James Weisbeck). His posts number up into the four hundreds. Should I take his high post numbers as some indication of knowledge and intelligence? He knows exactly what I think of him as I have pulled no punches in his general direction before, but I think NOT.

 

The ability to spout rhetoric, criticize others and make inane comments just for the purpose of doing so IN QUANTITY does not make any one more intelligent or more qualified to give advice.

 

Geospotter, in my opinion, has always used grace, commonsense and/or logic in his posts. He is CONTRIBUTING to this sport through his level-headed aid or comments to others on various topics of discussion. His posts are a pleasure to read, as opposed to others who have contributed to this thread, who's posts (in other threads) that I have a tendancy to scan over based on a consistancy for changing the topic, twisting the meaning of others and all-in-all rude and uncalled for comments.

 

Can we get back to the topic, Please?

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

I notice you didn't say anything about the more important relationship mentioned of posts/finds. Mine is a bit higher than 1/1. Perhaps I post too often; would you suggest I post less or cache more? icon_wink.gif


 

If the number of posts really meant something in the general scheme of Geocaching, then regardless of posts-to-caches found ratio, you are right up there with KD7MXI (aka: James Weisbeck). His posts number up into the four hundreds. Should I take his high post numbers as some indication of knowledge and intelligence? He knows exactly what I think of him as I have pulled no punches in his general direction before, but I think NOT.

 

The ability to spout rhetoric, criticize others and make inane comments just for the purpose of doing so IN QUANTITY does not make any one more intelligent or more qualified to give advice.

 

Geospotter, in my opinion, has always used grace, commonsense and/or logic in his posts. He is CONTRIBUTING to this sport through his level-headed aid or comments to others on various topics of discussion. His posts are a pleasure to read, as opposed to others who have contributed to this thread, who's posts (in other threads) that I have a tendancy to scan over based on a consistancy for changing the topic, twisting the meaning of others and all-in-all rude and uncalled for comments.

 

Can we get back to the topic, Please?

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My favorite log entry was a guy who left the dead batteries from his GPS and an empty mini booze bottle he found on the way in. Forget what he took, but even if it was a penny he certainly traded up.

 

The truly amazing thig is that he admitted to this in the log!

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BP,

 

You will be pleased to know that the counts will be changing. I have 2 main caches to place (just waiting for permission) made up of a total of 8 caches.

 

One, based on real Civil War caches will transport you back in time (figuratively) and I think most players will enjoy it. Even the contents are "period".

 

The other is my MENSA cache. I've kept the questions pretty light so that all can enjoy them. Even you. icon_wink.gif

 

I have spent all winter working them up and, while I have enjoyed the caches I have found, I want to "raise the bar" a bit.

 

I you like, I can go throw some tupperware in the woods, or attach a few dozen micro caches to road signs, but I think many cachers want more than that.

 

I apologize for going off topic here, and thank you all for your kind comments.

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BP,

 

You will be pleased to know that the counts will be changing. I have 2 main caches to place (just waiting for permission) made up of a total of 8 caches.

 

One, based on real Civil War caches will transport you back in time (figuratively) and I think most players will enjoy it. Even the contents are "period".

 

The other is my MENSA cache. I've kept the questions pretty light so that all can enjoy them. Even you. icon_wink.gif

 

I have spent all winter working them up and, while I have enjoyed the caches I have found, I want to "raise the bar" a bit.

 

I you like, I can go throw some tupperware in the woods, or attach a few dozen micro caches to road signs, but I think many cachers want more than that.

 

I apologize for going off topic here, and thank you all for your kind comments.

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

If the number of posts really meant something in the general scheme of Geocaching, then regardless of posts-to-caches found ratio, you are right up there with KD7MXI (aka: James Weisbeck). His posts number up into the four hundreds. Should I take his high post numbers as some indication of knowledge and intelligence?


 

No, you shouldn't. But neither do your raves speak well of yours. If you didn't like what I had to say, why didn't you just say so?

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

The ability to spout rhetoric, criticize others and make inane comments just for the purpose of doing so IN QUANTITY does not make any one more intelligent or more qualified to give advice.


 

So why do you continue to do it?

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

Geospotter, in my opinion, has always used grace, commonsense and/or logic in his posts.


 

Yes, he seems a decent fellow. I wish him well in his geocaching adventures.

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

His posts are a pleasure to read, as opposed to others who have contributed to this thread, who's posts (in other threads) that I have a tendancy to scan over based on a consistancy for changing the topic, twisting the meaning of others and all-in-all rude and uncalled for comments.


 

Unlike yours, which are always to the point, well considered and full of truth and wisdom. No, no ... that's not what they are full of at all.

 

quote:
Can we get back to the topic, Please?

 

Sure, now that you've gotten that off of your chest. I had time to upgrade the contents and condition of only one cache yesterday; I'll do better today. How'd you guys do?

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:48 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by jfitzpat:

 

Frankly, I can think of, oh, a 100,000 things off the top of head to better measure oneself against others - starting with things like honesty, courage, public service, etc. and running right down to far lesser virtues like tidy nails and NOT humming Broadway show tunes incessantly in elevators... But, the problem with my scales is that once a person attains any measurable stature on one of them, they have generally reached a level of maturity where they do not feel that they constantly need to compare themselves to others.


 

It's funny that your long post followed the quote of a whimsical question, (you saw the "winkie face" immediately following it?) directed to someone else, to which you offered no answer. To stay with your pop-psych theme, now why is that?

 

But never mind; I'm intrigued: WHAT do you use those "scales" for, if not for measuring yourself against others or humming broadway tunes in elevators? icon_wink.gif <------Another "winkie face."

 

quote:
So, we'll use your scale.

 

No, no; use yours ... the way you don't apply it seems so much more non-judgmental. icon_wink.gif <---- Another "winkie face." But consider the following: My quote that set a few of you off specifically mentioned the condition of geocaches. NOT caching; just geocaches. The difference should have been easily discerned. I wrote:" ... Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there."

 

One can't "do something" to improve the quality of the caches already in place ("out there") if one doesn't go looking for them. Got it?

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:49 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by jfitzpat:

 

Frankly, I can think of, oh, a 100,000 things off the top of head to better measure oneself against others - starting with things like honesty, courage, public service, etc. and running right down to far lesser virtues like tidy nails and NOT humming Broadway show tunes incessantly in elevators... But, the problem with my scales is that once a person attains any measurable stature on one of them, they have generally reached a level of maturity where they do not feel that they constantly need to compare themselves to others.


 

It's funny that your long post followed the quote of a whimsical question, (you saw the "winkie face" immediately following it?) directed to someone else, to which you offered no answer. To stay with your pop-psych theme, now why is that?

 

But never mind; I'm intrigued: WHAT do you use those "scales" for, if not for measuring yourself against others or humming broadway tunes in elevators? icon_wink.gif <------Another "winkie face."

 

quote:
So, we'll use your scale.

 

No, no; use yours ... the way you don't apply it seems so much more non-judgmental. icon_wink.gif <---- Another "winkie face." But consider the following: My quote that set a few of you off specifically mentioned the condition of geocaches. NOT caching; just geocaches. The difference should have been easily discerned. I wrote:" ... Looks like you're doing plenty of "educating" but not much to improve the quality of caches out there."

 

One can't "do something" to improve the quality of the caches already in place ("out there") if one doesn't go looking for them. Got it?

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:49 AM.]

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You've passed the 500 post mark. Lots of hard work has finally paid off. I'm going to start applying myself more in this area. I might even start replying to myself, that seems to work.

 

I enjoy all sorts of caches. They don't always have to be well thought out. A trip to a park for a virtual is great. A walk of a few hundred feet in a forest is great. I'm not for wrapping up a candle and tossing it out the window (such as happened a few months ago) but I'd still go try to find it and log it.

 

I think sometimes newer cachers are afraid to hide one because they think other cachers might make fun of the location or contents. As I've said I enjoy all types. Some days I'm in the mood for a nice long hike and other days I'm in the mood to drive up to a pizza parlor and log a virtual inside, next to the TV.

 

To help encourage newer (and older) cachers in my area to place a cache Im going to put one out this week called Quid Pro Quo. It will be a standard cache with a twist. In order to prevent their log from being deleted they will have to place a cache in my county within say... 30 days.

 

Sound fair? My feelings are if they don't want to place a cache of their own, then they don't need to log this one.

 

I know, I think I just hijacked this thread... offtopic.gif

 

Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

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quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

 

... To help encourage newer (and older) cachers in my area to place a cache Im going to put one out this week called Quid Pro Quo. It will be a standard cache with a twist. In order to prevent their log from being deleted they will have to place a cache in my county within say... 30 days.

Sound fair? My feelings are if they don't want to place a cache of their own, then they don't need to log this one.


 

Sounds good to me. But I don't understand why you would need to delete logs they probably wouldn't have posted online (after having "traded down," of course) anyway, if they hadn't planned on placing a cache ... but maybe you'll luck out, and someone will log it, plunder it, AND place a replacement cache at the same location within 30 days. icon_wink.gif

 

Time to go cachin'.

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quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:

 

... To help encourage newer (and older) cachers in my area to place a cache Im going to put one out this week called Quid Pro Quo. It will be a standard cache with a twist. In order to prevent their log from being deleted they will have to place a cache in my county within say... 30 days.

Sound fair? My feelings are if they don't want to place a cache of their own, then they don't need to log this one.


 

Sounds good to me. But I don't understand why you would need to delete logs they probably wouldn't have posted online (after having "traded down," of course) anyway, if they hadn't planned on placing a cache ... but maybe you'll luck out, and someone will log it, plunder it, AND place a replacement cache at the same location within 30 days. icon_wink.gif

 

Time to go cachin'.

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

Sure. I had time to upgrade the contents and condition of only one cache yesterday; I'll do better today. How'd you guys do?


 

Sorry that I didn't immediately respond to your many posts full of responses attempting to justify your position, and only once touching (barely) on the topic of this thread (above)...

 

Though I could go on about why I think you post just for the sake of doing so, I won't. What would be the point? Many others reading this understood my perspective without it being explained to them and I have received many emails from readers here to that effect.

 

Instead, I will answer your question above: Wedderburn. It was a round trip of over 100 miles. We have plans for a few caches on Thursday, the only day we have this week to cache as a family, and we'll be driving 100 miles one-way to do those. Living in an area as beautiful and remote as this means that we don't get that many caches locally.

 

I too enjoy a cache that has some thought behind it. Our current found/hidden ratio is roughly 9-to-1, all of our caches are still up (even the first one, that frequently gets logged by non-cachers, many of which have become Geocachers) and I frequently get compliments on the ones placed.

 

Now, I'll get back to work. I apologize to those new cachers who see these posts and are put-off by them. I hope you will consider the original thread and take the message for what it is worth.

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I just wanted to say I am kinda disappointed in how this thread ended up.

 

Oh wait, first I should mention I have only found 4 caches I hid 1 before I ever went out to find one on my own and this is only my 2nd or 3rd post, for those of you who are keeping count. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Anyway, first I should say how grateful I am to be able to sit back and read some of the wonderful thoughts, opinions and tips that are left on these message boards. People like ”The GeoGadgets Team” are out here trying to keep the sport healthy and I’m sure lots of people appreciate it!

 

Back on my off subject…. In many, many threads I read about how the find counts don’t matter and how many caches you place makes no difference, then I come hear to the first place any newbie would go and this is what they read. How can this be of any help to this hobby? It hasn’t turned me off but what about the next guy?

 

Sorry for the rant, I’ll go back to my lurking

-Bonnie

 

Oh ya, on subject...How about a guy who takes a fuzzy cat toy and leaves a empty altoids tin?

 

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

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I just wanted to say I am kinda disappointed in how this thread ended up.

 

Oh wait, first I should mention I have only found 4 caches I hid 1 before I ever went out to find one on my own and this is only my 2nd or 3rd post, for those of you who are keeping count. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Anyway, first I should say how grateful I am to be able to sit back and read some of the wonderful thoughts, opinions and tips that are left on these message boards. People like ”The GeoGadgets Team” are out here trying to keep the sport healthy and I’m sure lots of people appreciate it!

 

Back on my off subject…. In many, many threads I read about how the find counts don’t matter and how many caches you place makes no difference, then I come hear to the first place any newbie would go and this is what they read. How can this be of any help to this hobby? It hasn’t turned me off but what about the next guy?

 

Sorry for the rant, I’ll go back to my lurking

-Bonnie

 

Oh ya, on subject...How about a guy who takes a fuzzy cat toy and leaves a empty altoids tin?

 

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bonnie & Clyde:

I just wanted to say I am kinda disappointed in how this thread ended up. ... In many, many threads I read about how the find counts don’t matter and how many caches you place makes no difference, then I come hear to the first place any newbie would go and this is what they read. How can this be of any help to this hobby? It hasn’t turned me off but what about the next guy?


 

I read/post at: diyaudio.com, soundillusions.net, carsound.com, germanshepherds.com, rotweiller.net, diamondtalk.com, and countless usenet.groups.... and the tone in this joint is poor by comparison. (well, maybe except rec.backcountry)

 

Funny, a poll on the site showed most of the geocachers as over 30 (?), and many of the participants at the forums above (ie: the audio/stereo sites) are teens/college- yet I've never read anyone say: "...oh yeah!?!? well your posts to RMS WATTAGE ratio is below N so you're not an authority on this subject...."

 

sheesh

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I apologize to everyone on how this thread turned out. I appreciate all of the posts either positive or negative on how to deal with folks who don't trade "fair". I thank everyone who stuck to the thread topic.

 

I will use what useful information I received and I hope that any new users who read this thread will take this issue to heart, for trading down in caches is not a good way to keep the sport healthy and enjoyable for those who follow after you.

 

I have received many emails of support, during this thread and through many others. I thank all of you and appreciate your thoughts and comments. I wouldn't even mind if some of you wrote to me if you feel negatively about how this was handled.

 

I do not, however, appreciate emails like the one I received from BassoonPilot yesterday claiming that he has received emails from folks concerning this thread (or others, it wasn't specified). In his email he states that he has received eleven emails that contain "humorous comments about the state of your hormones".

 

Regardless of my statements in these forums, regardless of my rants as opposed to any others, I find it in very poor taste to bring up something so blatantly sexist. As if the fact of my being a woman makes me any less intelligent, any less informed on the subjects that I choose to comment on, or any less "level-headed".

 

I've never really been one of those hard-core PC-type folks, and regardless of the fact that BP was commenting on the emails he received from others, I believe that it was wrong to comment on them, especially in the middle of what should be friendly debate, conversation, comments, or whatever, regardless of whether or not they are shrouded in winkie and smilie faced icons...

 

Good day to you.

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

...

Many others reading this understood my perspective without it being explained to them and I have received many emails from readers here to that effect. ...


 

And in yet another topical post:

 

quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

I have received many emails of support, during this thread and through many others. I thank all of you and appreciate your thoughts and comments. I wouldn't even mind if some of you wrote to me if you feel negatively about how this was handled.


 

Oh, it's redundant, but BIOYA. "You're just posting to see yourself post."

 

I thought letting you know, privately, that I too had received a plentiful amount of e-mails about the exchange was the "recommended and preferred" procedure.

 

Go ahead and post the "offending" e-mail. What did it consist of? Three or four short, friendly, rancor-free sentences?

 

Incidentally, I showed a couple of the funnier e-mails to my wife and daughter, who found them "hysterical."

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 08:56 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

 

I do not, however, appreciate emails like the one I received from BassoonPilot yesterday claiming that he has received emails from folks concerning this thread (or others, it wasn't specified). In his email he states that he has received eleven emails that contain "humorous comments about the state of your hormones".

 


 

You should always consider the source. We are talking about an individual who really thinks that geocaching.com stats a truly indicitive of anything. Emoticons notwithstanding, he has used his counts vs. reason logic on several occassions. It seems natural that someone who puts misguided credibility in certain numbers would fling a count (real or otherwise) of emails at you as if it were a valid point.

 

He personally dropped me a note containing, what I presume was, his feeble attempt at biting sarcasm. He made some reference to Pop Psych. Of course, the obvious reply would have been, 'Gosh, your right! But since I nailed your buttons, doesn't that make you, like, really, really shallow?'

 

However, I'll still wait till his acorns drop and he starts shaving regularly, then we'll talk about acting like a man. As Hawkeye pointed out, you always act like a true lady. (Not terribly PC, but I hope you'll take the comment as it is intended).

 

I thought that the topic was a valid one, and touches on core values that the sport depends on. And, as I mentioned before, adhering to certain rules, even when 'cheating' is really easy, helps demonstrate certain important values to our children.

 

-jjf

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Yeah, he sent me an email, too. Something about people with few finds have no right "educating" people. I noted that he must be REALLY annoyed at the fact that most of the world's best gynecologists have never been pregnant.

 

On topic, jfitzpat, nailed it when he said this topic "touches on core values that the sport depends on." I agree.

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quote:
Originally posted by jfitzpat:

 

You should always consider the source.

 

... who really thinks that geocaching.com stats a truly indicitive of anything. Emoticons notwithstanding, he has used his counts vs. reason logic on several occassions.

 

... 'Gosh, your right! ... And, as I mentioned before, adhering to certain rules ... helps demonstrate certain important values to our children.


 

I acquiesce, for obviously you know best. I will attempt to adhere to those values you have demonstrated. Thank you for showing me the errors of my ways.

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on June 03, 2002 at 11:27 AM.]

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I just want to make a comment that is specific to the topic, its very rare that I find anything in a cahe that I would take. I enjoy the challenge of finding them, it does not cease to amaze me what people put in them as trades. There is someone in my area who is putting blank Cd-Roms in caches. I usually try for something that is useful or unique, its amazing what you can find in Wal-Mart or Home Depot. 3' mini tape measures, tire pressure gauges, large caribieners, rain ponchos(you need them in the summer in Florida because of the daily rain). While I don't announce what I have put into a cache, I can tell when I have good item because someone takes it.

Even though I rarely take anything from a cache, I usually add one or two items to upgrade the quality. My hope is that people will begin to catch on to adding better quality items.

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