Knives And Multi-tools

[+TeamTeeGee]

Okay, I've read over the guidelines, which make it clear that knives and sharp objects are not desirable cache items, but...(I always love using "but" ) I've also noticed many people posting about placing knives and/or multi-tools in caches.

 

So, my obvious question is, are these items allowable or not?

 

I ask this because I picked up several mini multi-tools a while back that feature a very small LED light built in to them. They're really neat and I think they'd make good swag, but I really don't want to place anything in a cache that would be considered "bad form" whether it's a neat item or not.

 

Does anyone have a definitive answer on this subject?

 

TIA!

Edited November 30, 2004 by TeamTeeGee

[Bobthearch]

This has been discussed many times and you can do a forum search to find old posts with tons of info. In short, the answer is no. If it has a blade, it's a knife and not allowed.

 

Best Wishes,

Bob

[+Criminal]

Allowed? Geocaching is a pastime, not a gubbermint program. It’s up to you to decide what’s “allowed”. Groundspeak asks that knives not be placed in caches, but many of us will apply a degree of common sense to that restriction. My cache at the summit of Mt Col Bob will never be visited by prisoners, unattended children, or the mentally ill, so feel free to leave a multi-tool there. In an urban area though, DO NOT leave anything that you would not be allowed to board a plane with. It saves the Groundspeak staff a lot of grief.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Hm... I think someone DID leave a (shh) knife at the summit of Col. Bob. Someone may have to go back and get it. She likes knives.

 

My son is always rather thrilled when he finds sharp objects in the cache we visit.

 

As Criminal suggests, use common sense. And never, ever, EVER list 'multi-tool' or 'knife' as cache contents if you feel the need to list the contents of your new cache on the page.

 

-=-

michelle

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I agree with Criminal above...in wilder places, I often leave a signature multi-tool/biner/compass combo...

 

In cities and other places where children might venture unaccompanied, I will leave a signature coin...

 

This is in addition to, or sometimesinstead of, other trade items. I think that good judgement is important when approaching the issue of the types of items you leave in caches.

 

nfa-jamie

[Cacher Short]

I just wanted to jump in b/c i went w/ my family and we found caches w/ the multi tools in and in some they replaced it with another multi tool. I would just have to say that u should make the decision and use your common sense. Just make sure that it is in a cache that children cant get in. also make sure that it is not like a huge buck knife that could really hurt someone. I would say to keep it small.

[Keystone]

The "Cache Contents" section of the Geocache Listing Guidelines does indeed list knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools) as "questionable items" that should not be left in caches. After the list of "questionable items," the guidelines go on to say:

 

If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled.

 

Note well that the guideline applies both to the initial contents AND to a cache that is *later* reported to contain a knife. So, in theory, if you own a cache at the top of the mountain, and Joe Geocacher puts a knife in it as a trade item, and Goody 2Shoes "reports" the questionable item to Groundspeak, you might find your cache disabled. In 18 months as a site volunteer, I've never had a problem of this nature "reported" to me and thus I have never utilized this power. On the other hand, since the "report" of a *new* cache brings the matter to our attention, the reviewers do regularly ask hiders of new caches to remove the questionable items before the cache is listed.

 

Now, if the facts were changed and the cache was in a park across the street from a school, and the school safety officer "reported" the presence of a knife in a phone call or e-mail to Groundspeak, that'd be different. That happens from time to time. Change "school safety officer" to "park worker" and you sometimes get a ban on geocaches in that park system as a result of the episode.

[+TeamTeeGee]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

 

I had considered putting the multi-tools in caches that wouldn't be readily available to children. There are a few local fishing spots that might make for good cache locations and my thoughts were that possibly any fishermen that were in to geocaching might find one and be able to make use of it. These places are well out of town (basically in the toolies), and any kids who found them would have to be driven there by a parent.

 

I agree with everyone that common sense should dictate what you want to include, or exclude from a cache.

 

I guess that butane lighters, bottle rockets and M80s would be out of the question too, huh? (kidding!...I'm just kidding!)

[+Criminal]

I guess that butane lighters, bottle rockets and M80s would be out of the question too, huh? (kidding!...I'm just kidding!)

Well, I wouldn’t put a lighter and an M80 in the same cache, the temptation would easily overwhelm those of us with a weakness for explody things. If you want to leave a few M80s in one of my caches, feel free to do so as long as you tell me exactly what time you will be leaving it. I can always make a cache maintenance run.

[+AuntieWeasel]

Look at the bright side. The knife prohibition means you're positively OBLIGED to trade them out of caches when you find them.

 

So...take the coolest thing in the box, no guilt

[+Gorak]

So, in theory, if you own a cache at the top of the mountain, and Joe Geocacher puts a knife in it as a trade item, and Goody 2Shoes "reports" the questionable item to Groundspeak, you might find your cache disabled. 

It's probably a good thing that Goody 2Shoes doesn't visit caches after I've been there because my two most common trade items are miniature multitools and Chinese Army Knives. Probably just as well that I don't log most of my caches online until several months later...

 

I'm still of the opinion that it's a parent's job to supervise their children and not other cachers. Probably why I have dogs instead of kids.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I guess that butane lighters, bottle rockets and M80s would be out of the question too, huh? (kidding!...I'm just kidding!)

Well, I wouldn’t put a lighter and an M80 in the same cache, the temptation would easily overwhelm those of us with a weakness for explody things. If you want to leave a few M80s in one of my caches, feel free to do so as long as you tell me exactly what time you will be leaving it. I can always make a cache maintenance run.

That reminds me. I found a cache once that had fireworks in it, so I removed them. After all they needed to be diposed of properly which I am Licensed to do.

[+Andy and Robin]

and curiously enough there is a members only knife cache out there with the word knives in the title.

[+TeamTeeGee]

Look at the bright side. The knife prohibition means you're positively OBLIGED to trade them out of caches when you find them.

 

So...take the coolest thing in the box, no guilt

I do like the way you think, AuntieWeasel!

[+YuccaPatrol]

Aunt Weasel's thinking got me this big honkin piece of Pakistani steel!

 

 

Had it been in the wilderness and not behind the fence of a little league baseball field, I would have left it since I did not have an equal trade, but since it was in a park frequented by children, I could not in good conscience leave it there.

Edited December 1, 2004 by YuccaPatrol

[+Mopar]

and curiously enough there is a members only knife cache out there with the word knives in the title.

And chances are it is either old enough to predate the guideline, or the cache owner edited the cache name and description after it was listed. Of course, if that's the case, if anough people submit "Happy Golf Ball Cache", and then change it to "Evil Knife Cache" after it's approved, eventually they will make it so we can't edit a cache page after it's been listed without admin intervention. There are always a few people that feel the need to abuse a loophole in the system, and those people end up hurting the rest of us.

Someone leaves a knife in a cache in Ohio county park, that county ends up banning geocaches. People were moving caches and changing cache types because they knew the real location or cache type wouldn't get approved; now we need an admin to change it.

When enough people abuse it, we lose it.