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'placing' Distant Webcam Caches


ibycus

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Just wondering what people here think about placing distant webcam caches. Out where I went to university, they have placed a webcam in one of the buildings (actually it was there when I was there, but I wasn't in to geocaching yet). Anyways, I have the lat/lons for the camera, and was thinking about posting it as a webcam cache.

There are two restrictions that I can't comply with but neither of them seem to me to be a big deal.

 

1. I can't visit the camera to get a picture of me as a 'sample' (people will definitely be recognizable)

2. The cache is a long way away, sso might be construed in the same light as a 'vacation' cache. Maintenance shouldn't be a problem though...

 

Thoughts?

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You have correctly noted the two issues that will likely stand in the way of having your webcam cache listed. It was good of you to ask in advance!

 

Yes, the "Vacation Cache/Maintainable Distance" guideline does apply to webcams. And yes, you do need to upload the required sample photograph.

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Just wondering what people here think about placing distant webcam caches. Out where I went to university, they have placed a webcam in one of the buildings (actually it was there when I was there, but I wasn't in to geocaching yet). Anyways, I have the lat/lons for the camera, and was thinking about posting it as a webcam cache.

There are two restrictions that I can't comply with but neither of them seem to me to be a big deal.

 

1. I can't visit the camera to get a picture of me as a 'sample' (people will definitely be recognizable)

2. The cache is a long way away, sso might be construed in the same light as a 'vacation' cache. Maintenance shouldn't be a problem though...

 

Thoughts?

To answer #2 first: You would think so until a hurricane comes by and blows away the cam.

 

About #1: The best thing to do in this case where you can't see the person well is to have them pose in a way that would make them stand out. What I did in one of my web cams is have them throw a Phoon.

Check A Different View - GCJJ9R for an example.

Edited by Doc-Dean
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Well I don't think the recognizability will really be an issue. The camera is about as idealy placed as possible to actually see people in it (its in the foyer outside the university bookstore, used to monitor the lineup). There are people walking by all the time during daylight hours (suppose I could always 'capture' one of them).

As far as maintenance goes, I really don't see that there is anything that a close by individual can do that I can't.

Really if the camera goes offline, its offline. I suppose one could contact the university and ask them if its going back up again, but I can still do that from here.

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As far as maintenance goes, I really don't see that there is anything that a close by individual can do that I can't.

Really if the camera goes offline, its offline. I suppose one could contact the university and ask them if its going back up again, but I can still do that from here.

What if the camera view gets moved so that the camera is still active, but the corodinates are no longer valid? Someone in the area would need to obtain new coordinates.

 

If you have your heart set on it, you could look for a local cacher to co-own the cache with you or agree to look after it if something like new coordinates are needed.

Edited by carleenp
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What if the camera view gets moved so that the camera is still active, but the corodinates are no longer valid? Someone in the area would need to obtain new coordinates.

Unless the camera changes significantly in purpose, I don't see this as an issue. The camera was set up to monitor the line outside the bookstore. The line has only one direction in which it can run. The foyer isn't that big that changes in camera positioning within the building would make a difference (Oh BTW there is a skylight in about centre frame of the shot that let me get a fix while in the building)

The camera has been pointed in exactly the same place since it was set up (IIRC was in about 2000-2001).

If the Camera moved to a different building, I would imagine it would be time to archive the cache (I suppose it might at that time be possible to contact a local cacher to grab some new coordinates).

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My point is that a camera could significantly change in purpose. Perhaps unlikely, but possible. Perhaps the store will remodel and move the line, and hence the camera etc. The same goes for getting the picture. Who knows what could come up? Plus it seems like it is best to make everyone follow the same rules.

 

Regardless the solution is pretty easy. Find a local to co-own it with you or agree to maintain it for you if something like new coordinates are needed.

Edited by carleenp
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My point is that a camera could significantly change in purpose. Perhaps unlikely, but possible. Perhaps the store will remodel and move the line, and hence the camera etc. The same goes for getting the picture. Who knows what could come up? Plus it seems like it is best to make everyone follow the same rules.

 

Regardless the solution is pretty easy. Find a local to co-own it with you or agree to maintain it for you if something like new coordinates are needed.

Well knowing the building, and the volume of people they get through there, they could hardly move the line, without gutting the whole building (very unlikely). I don't see as this is an issue that would come up very often in any case. I mean how many people have the lat/lons of webcams a 36 hour drive from their home?

 

I'll probably just search for a local cacher, but I really don't see why I should...

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If it's such a great webcam and it's been around for awhile, why hasn't a local grabbed it already?

That sounds meaner then I mean it to.

What I'm getting at, are there other issues besides the fact that you don't want to follow the same rules as everyone else? (OK, THAT sentence probably sounds as mean as I meant it to!:lol:).

You mention it's at a university, AND it's inside one of the buildings. Most schools, even public schools, are not really public property. Most school grounds are really only open to the students and other people that have a school approved reason to be there. Most schools you can not legally just enter and roam the halls. Could this have something to do with why it hasn't been listed as a webcam cache already?

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If it's such a great webcam and it's been around for awhile, why hasn't a local grabbed it already?

That sounds meaner then I mean it to.

What I'm getting at, are there other issues besides the fact that you don't want to follow the same rules as everyone else? (OK, THAT sentence probably sounds as mean as I meant it to!:D).

You mention it's at a university, AND it's inside one of the buildings. Most schools, even public schools, are not really public property. Most school grounds are really only open to the students and other people that have a school approved reason to be there. Most schools you can not legally just enter and roam the halls. Could this have something to do with why it hasn't been listed as a webcam cache already?

Dunno, but I know there are no signs on the campus that say that non students aren't allowed. Pretty sure it is a private building open to the public (similar to a shop or some such). I know generally around here, in grade school (1-12) there are signs posted at every entrance that say that visitors must report directly to the main office etc etc. Universities, to my knowledge have no such restriction.

My guess the reason it isn't already done has a few sources

1. The popularity of caching in the area (with at least the two closest caches to the webcam, they are both owned by people who either haven't visited the site in a very long time, or no longer live in the city)

2. I *think* the page where people would typically look at the camera might only link to the camera at certain times of the year, hence most people don't know that the camera is always available, and those that do, haven't yet reported it.

 

Basically, my point is this, I have no problem finding someone else to 'maintain' the cache, provided there is a legitimate reason to do so. What I am questioning is whether in this case there is a legitimate reason for the rules (we have a webcam that has been set up for several years with a specific purpose that can only logically be within a smallish area). I object strongly for rules for the sake of rules. Remember we are all out there to have fun. The purpose of the approval process (as far as I am aware anyways) is to

 

a) Make sure caches are placed legally

:D to some degree to ensure the quality of the caches places, and that they make logical sense where they are.

c) Stop some numb-nuts from doing really stupid things like flooding the db with non existant caches.

 

The no-caches in vacation is a good rule in general because it ensures that the placer is in a position to respond to issues that might arise with the cache (like hey it was trashed and needs removing, or is it really there, or is the environment suffereing)

Well one can hardly trash a webcam cache (barring some serious criminal charges :lol: ) It is easy to respond to a DNF log, and the environment is hardly an issue.

 

So, if I want to place a cache, for others in the area to enjoy, that is in a legal location, why shouldn't it be approved? The quality of the image is pretty obvious (just watch for a few minutes sometime during the day, near a half hour boundary when classes let out, and you'll certainly see someone walk by) If the camera goes missing etc, it can always be archived. If it gets moved, well that sucks, but either a) I can ask a local to grab new coordinates at that time, or :D it can be archived.

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How about to keep 1 person from just googling webcams and placing one at every spot he can figure out the coords to? It could happen, without the current rules.

Is this really a big deal? I mean if he'd set up one locally here that I didn't know about, I wouldn't mind. If I did know about it, I really should have placed it before some non local 'found' it.

As long as his coordinates are relatively accurate, I really don't have a problem with it.

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My point is that a camera could significantly change in purpose. Perhaps unlikely, but possible. Perhaps the store will remodel and move the line, and hence the camera etc.  The same goes for getting the picture. Who knows what could come up? Plus it seems like it is best to make everyone follow the same rules.

 

Regardless the solution is pretty easy. Find a local to co-own it with you or agree to maintain it for you if something like new coordinates are needed.

Well knowing the building, and the volume of people they get through there, they could hardly move the line, without gutting the whole building (very unlikely). I don't see as this is an issue that would come up very often in any case. I mean how many people have the lat/lons of webcams a 36 hour drive from their home?

 

I'll probably just search for a local cacher, but I really don't see why I should...

What it comes down to for me is that the rules are there for a reason. In many, or even likely most cases, a long distance web cam could be maintained without incident. But there exists in any random case the possibilty of things like the cam moving slightly and requiring new coords, or as Mopar suggested, people simply finding ones all over and not checking them etc. Unlikely? Sure. But the problem is there is no way to know for sure and so a rule is made. I suppose the site could make subjective exceptions, but then others would complain about inconsistency. It is an imperfect situation. A firm rule might exclude some things that would normally be OK, but a loose rule could lead to less consistency and more problems.

 

In the end, the rule is the rule. When deciding what the rule should be, I prefer a bright line that is easy to draw. People know better what to expect then.

 

So, as unlikely as it might be that the cam you are looking at would move or that a cacher could not be identified in it (a pretty common problem that I have seen in various web cams), giving you an exception to the rule opens up a whole new can of worms.

 

Anyway, I do bet that if you write to some area cachers, that someone will agree to go get the picture and keep and eye on the cam for you. At the same time, why not let a local find and own it? Tip some locals off to web cam possibility in a local forum or something? This isn't anything to do with the guidelines per se, but I tend to think that the local caching communities are maybe best served by allowing locals to "own" the cache locations in their area. So if you were to tip off a local, then you can go back and visit and log a find instead of a hide while the locals also enjoy a web cam placed by another local person who they might see at events and such and enjoy discussing the cache with. But like I said that last part isn't really part of the guidelines, but I think is in the spirit of them.

Edited by carleenp
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What it comes down to for me is that the rules are there for a reason. In many, or even likely most cases, a long distance web cam could be maintained without incident. But there exists in any random case the possibilty of things like the cam moving slightly and requiring new coords, or as Mopar suggested, people simply finding ones all over and not checking them etc.

Well, I guess what I'm saying is that even in the worst case scenario, the rule to me at least doesn't make sense. My problem with contacting a local, at least in this case is that a LARGE percentage of them aren't really all that local anyways.

The camera is in waterloo ontario. Kitchener/Waterloo has about 180,000-190,000 people. That includes two good sized universities, one smaller one, and goodness knows how many colleges (off the top of my head I can think of at least 4). I think at the university, I met maybe 3 locals, and the rest were out of towners. Likely, whoever I contact will in the long run be no more able to maintain the cache than I am (although I think I can do a pretty darn good job from here). Anyways, I've contacted a local anyways, just to have a name on the record as a 'local contact', so I think this discussion is pretty much closed.

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