Jump to content

Lots Of Questions!!


graveyard mom

Recommended Posts

Ok, I admit it, I'm stopping to look everytime I see spray paint on the side of the road!! Yes I am officially hooked!! :D

 

So here are a few questions that I looked around and read until my eyes glazed over and still didn't really find answers for(or maybe I read them and just didn't understand them!!).

 

#1 Are these markers still used by anyone? Or is it only the ones that you find adjusted coords for and recent descriptions on that are still used?

 

#2 The ones marked on topozone maps-do they generally look like the standard BM or can they basically be anything??? I submit a topomap from near me that has quite a few along one street. I took approximate coords from using the topozone thing and want to go, just wondering what I should look for!(and none of which-of course-are in the database, but thats ok!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...ikey/bm-map.jpg

 

#3 are they usually about 5 ft from the road, right on the road or could they be even further from the road?

 

#4 I found these two "things" and wonder if they are benchmarks!

First one is one I found near one of those marks on the topomap(different street than the one above), but I am not sure if I found the actual benchmark. There was spraypainting on the road which is what caught my attention, but only found the yellow cap that appeared to say "SEC INC"(shoulda used the macro on the camera).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...m-florence2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...m-florence1.jpg

 

next one I found at a park today, that again the spray painting caught my attention. My kid is standing over what we think was marked:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...ikey/bm15-1.jpg

and we checked at about 5ft and moved the mud just a bit but only found this piece of metal that did appear to be attached well here. There was a broken stick with a triangle -15 also nearby just laying in the grass. Not sure if this was it, and didn't want to do any digging in a city park, and just wondering if this might be something!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...ikey/bm15-2.jpg

 

#5 I also noticed a faded spray painted triangle on the corner near my home, on the street about a foot from the curb on a street that isn't more than about 5 yrs old. Inside the triangle is a small, I guess rod tip-about 3/4" across that was only marked "P K". Is this anything or am I starting to see TOO MUCH NOW!! :lol:

 

I appreciate y'alls help! I found one today on a building in our "downtown" area that had been listed in 1957 as "not found"! And I have some pretty good ideas on where some other local ones are, just waiting for a nice day to get out and search!! :lol:

Link to comment

One more question, regarding the NGS website where I am pulling up the datasheets: some of the ones close to me are marked on the datasheets as "not found" in 2001 by the Tennessee DOT. How reliable is that? I mean, how hard do ya think they really looked for them and should I then not bother looking myself?

 

Just wondering! :D

Link to comment
One more question, regarding the NGS website where I am pulling up the datasheets: some of the ones close to me are marked on the datasheets as "not found" in 2001 by the Tennessee DOT. How reliable is that? I mean, how hard do ya think they really looked for them and should I then not bother looking myself?

 

Just wondering! :lol:

I know of one that Marky & Joani found around here that had been labeled as not found/destroyed. There had been some extensive realignment of the roads, and the bridge that the benchmarks were on was no longer used (but still there, when they found it). A new bridge, as well as an extension of the road was part of the realignment, a couple of hundred feet south. The description indicated the benchmark was on the Hillsdale Rd bridge near Almaden Road. The original road became Old Hillsdale (I believe) and Almaden became Old Almaden. A new road Almaden Expressway was also added. The bridge was eventually torn down, so it is now actually missing.

 

But the ones that are marked as not found, I don't spend a lot of time searching for, and then only if it is fairly obvious where it should be do I look much.

 

I'll take a stab at some of your other questions. Someone else may know better answers.

#1 I believe that the benchmarks are still in use in general. That does not mean that everyone has been used in recent history.

 

#2 There was a thread discussing benchmarks on topo maps recently. Check out Mbs Listed On Topo Maps (I got to Markwell :D )

 

#3 There are several that are along a road, but in many cases that is not why they are monumented. I have found a couple of schools (go during non class time) and other structures.

 

#4 I believe that these are survey points used by other groups. But one of the surveyors in the group should be able to discuss these more.

 

#5 Probably the same thing as #4.

Link to comment
I'll take a stab at some of your other questions. Someone else may know better answers.

#1 I believe that the benchmarks are still in use in general. That does not mean that everyone has been used in recent history.

 

#2 There was a thread discussing benchmarks on topo maps recently. Check out Mbs Listed On Topo Maps (I got to Markwell  :lol: )

 

#3 There are several that are along a road, but in many cases that is not why they are monumented. I have found a couple of schools (go during non class time) and other structures.

 

#4 I believe that these are survey points used by other groups. But one of the surveyors in the group should be able to discuss these more.

 

#5 Probably the same thing as #4.

Excellent! Thank you!

 

I had thought that myself about the ones I am looking at in the datasheets. Some of them seemed obvious, like several marks on an airport that no longer exists near me. I think I may go through and add notes to the ones listed here that have more recent updates on NGS just to at least let someone know(myself included in case I forget) that these are probably gone.

 

#1 Cool, I can see the ones along railroads being useful, and on major buildings and such, I've wondered about those ones on hilltops that haven't seen humans in decades!!

 

#2 thanks for the link, that helped TREMENDOUSLY!!! Makes so much more sense now!! :lol:

 

#3 yeah I am starting to see them everywhere, I guess I just keep my eyes open!

 

#4 & 5, thanks, I think I'll just keep taking photos and marking waypoints when I see something unusual-just in case! Its fun anyway, regardless of whether or not they are really something! (now that I recall, I saw a surveyor a few miles away from home this afternoon-he had just spray painted the road and was working with one of those "surveyor things that they look through"-forgive my ignorance-and I think I will go by there tomorrow to see just what it was he was working on!!)

 

:D:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Link to comment

Graveyard Mom,

 

A couple things that may help make sense of all this and answer a bunch of questions, are the FAQ Page, and this Link started by the 2oldfarts. There are a lot of answers to the questions you have on both those links.

 

Oh and regarding the did not find reports in the NGS logs. Well, your milage may vary. The quality of the reports of not found can vary, some agencies can be better than others, and even the NGS can be skunked. If you are up to it, feel free to have a go at them yourself. Some times they really are gone, sometimes just hidden really well, sometimes the description isn't very useful and sometimes we get lucky. I have hunted a few stations that took time and a lot of thinking to find. I had one, which I had easily found that I went back to re-photo a year later and it took 10 minutes to find. The only difference? The year before the renter of the property kept up their yard and it was in plain sight. The new renter was not quite as fastidious. I knew where it was but until I got down and started combing through the grass by hand, I could not see it. It was completely obscured. You can imagine what I was thinking, I knew for sure it was there, I even knew where to look. It still took 10 minutes to find in that grass, only one year later. I couldn't believe it myself. I can assure you that that station which was super easy in a mowed lawn will have been a did not find for all who would not have bothered to look very hard in the taller grass.

 

Enjoy and Happy Thanksgiving,

 

Rob

Edited by evenfall
Link to comment
Question No. 5:

 

Parker-Kalon Masonry Nail, sold out of KY.

Used by surveyors for all kinds of things. Sometimes used as important points, mostly used as temporary (3-5 yr) points.

Thank you!! That is pretty cool-I need to go down there and snap a photo. :(

I hope to get all these "not on GC.com" BMs I am finding up on my website sometime soon-if I can stay home for any amount of time! :blink: If it's a nice day I can't help but jump in the car and GO!

 

ONE MORE QUESTION:

 

Is it bad form to add a "found" and new photo for a benchmark I found long ago??? Some examples...mainly FB1801-I found this one three years ago on my one and only hike in the Smokies. I dug up my photos and I did not take a close up photo, but a good photo of the trail showing the culvert off to the left(the bm can be seen somewhat on it). I remember distinctly seeing it and not knowing what the heck it was! In the book, "Hiking Trails of the Smokies", that I got recently, actually says "The trail crosses Bullhead Branch over a small bridge at 1.0 mile. A closer look on the left side of the bridge reveals a benchmark that reads 'US Coast and Geodetic Survey 1934'". My hubby says we should go back and verify it someday-well that's nice and all, but I'd rather actually go find some that someone else has not found-and this is an easy one that has been logged many times(if I am going hiking for one!!). I read some of the old threads about logging ones others have logged, so I don't have a problem with that, I just think I *KNOW* the benchmark is in the photo and (tho I am biased!) I think my area photo is better than the one there.

 

And along those same lines-what about ones that I have photos for, and pretty good ones I might add(yes again I am biased!) that are landmarks, such as Clingman's Dome tower in the Smokies, Bruton Parish Church steeple in Colonial Williamsburg, the flagpole at the Arlington House in Arlington National Cemetery-all places I have been many times and have many photos for! Is it bad form to log these as finds now, and not that I am worried or interested in numbers, but just adding my photos or the "feeling" that I have been to ones(even though I didn't know it at the time).

 

Any thoughts on that??

 

[edited to add my Clingmans Dome most recent photo, taken in Oct 2003]

clingmansdome.jpg

Edited by graveyard mom
Link to comment

Mom -

 

Regarding the logging of "FOUND IT" for benchmarks or landmarks that you visited in the past:

 

There are no rules that say you can't. Heck, there are hardly any rules at all except those you make up yourself and to which you choose to comply. However, this topic has been discussed from time to time in the past (though not recently that I recall), and the general sense of the group was that one shouldn't log a find unless your intention was to find a specific benchmark when you visited the site. Otherwise, we could all comb our childhood memories and post finds for the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Washington Monument, etc. etc. etc. I think the whole idea was that (intellectually/analytically/whatever) we approach objects/structures differently if we seek them as benchmarks described on datasheets with PIDs, etc., than we do when we visit them as tourists. I think most of the members have thought about the notion you introduced and most, I believe, have elected to log finds only on those stations that they seek as benchmarks.

 

But if you log the flagpole at Arlington Cemetery as "FOUND IT", I don't imagine that anyone would get terribly exercised about it.

 

Will

Link to comment

I agree with Will. However, it also is a help to others who are seeking the BM for the first time (theirs) to have a picture to help locate the mark. So you could post a note to the BM that this is what you saw X-number of years ago.

 

I am frustrated by the fact that some local BMs have been reported as found but no pictures were submitted nor descriptions about exactly where the BMs were located. I have followed the descriptions, used the coordinates, and come up with a blank. Makes me wonder if the previous loggers really did find the marks??? :blink:

Link to comment

Yup, we make up a lot of our own rules. My rule is that I have to check that the description is accurate and log any needed corrections and updates, with handheld GPS coordinate readings if possible.

 

For stations with "adjusted" coordinates I have to confirm the values within my accuracy of a few feet, usually one value at a time by standing for instance due north and then due east of it. This rule has led me to discover that some marks were "destroyed" where other people were reporting the wrong item as a "found".

 

On the other hand, I tend to think "found it" means exactly that and not "I was looking for it when I found it". If I could ascertain that I saw the right mark (like having a picture of it showing the designation or its mounting in a unique feature, taken when I didn't know what it was), then I'd claim it.

 

If I couldn't get some meaningful measurement of the coordinates of the statue of liberty, I wouldn't claim it, even if that was what I went looking for. This has led to some long exercises. For instance I worked out a technique for plotting lines through inaccessible features while trying to figure out which if either of the stacks MG0881 and MG0877 is still seen at a heating plant. That might be worth its own thread, but I've been too busy to do justice to a posting on it.

Link to comment

We do get a little silly over our "finds", don't we? I just saw THIS ONE in the gallery.

 

I hope folks won't concentrate so much upon creating a high "found" score that they miss the challenge of printing a couple of 20-year-old stations from the data base and spending time working through the landmarks--some of which have changed!

 

Hobby participation should be fun. Hiking to the Clingman's Dome observation tower, or making that elevator ride to the top of the Empire State Building, gives you some bragging rights. (grin)

 

But don't make this a steady diet. If you do not exercise your brain with less obvious stations from time to time, you are not growing.

 

-Paul-

Link to comment

Paul,

 

I think that water tower is too "fare" from my Firehouse for me to "clam" too :-D

 

Um, But who am I to argue with a four legged water tank found to be good in 1995?!? I wonder if a police report has been filed regarding the stolen tower legs... Ya think? Yeah! Most peculiar... I am calling CSI...

 

Rob

Link to comment
I hope folks won't concentrate so much upon creating a high "found" score that they miss the challenge of printing a couple of 20-year-old stations from the data base and spending time working through the landmarks--some of which have changed!

I've had more fun trying to find a couple of rock outcrops over the past couple of weeks than I had driving down a road for an hour and catching a half dozen easy bridge finds. The problem is the outcrops were marked only by tree blazes 60 years ago. The trees are long gone, but I KNOW the rocks are still there somewhere, and the challenge is to find them. My "score" hasn't risen while I search, but that doesn't measure the enjoyment I've had.

 

There is also a degree of satisfaction logging an accurate "not found" rather than an inaccurate "found" (LY0736);

Link to comment

lol

 

Rob and Paul,

 

I read the description as well and thought to myself, "there sure is a lot of benchmark jargon I have to learn."

 

I didn't know what to say about the missing tower legs or the new color and shape but if the Power Squadron says it's the tower, who am I to argue :(

 

mrh

 

checked for spelling

Edited by mrh - terre haute
Link to comment
I hope folks won't concentrate so much upon creating a high "found" score that they miss the challenge of printing a couple of 20-year-old stations from the data base and spending time working through the landmarks--some of which have changed!

I've had more fun trying to find a couple of rock outcrops over the past couple of weeks than I had driving down a road for an hour and catching a half dozen easy bridge finds. The problem is the outcrops were marked only by tree blazes 60 years ago. The trees are long gone, but I KNOW the rocks are still there somewhere, and the challenge is to find them. My "score" hasn't risen while I search, but that doesn't measure the enjoyment I've had.

 

There is also a degree of satisfaction logging an accurate "not found" rather than an inaccurate "found" (LY0736);

 

holograph,

 

Those in rock outcrops with reference of blazed trees are the ones we keep working on. Those & other 'old' marks that require special ways to get there, either by following very old directions that have lots of turns listed on now non-existent trails & thru now non-existent gates....we just have to go back & try another route on another day since those seem to be almost a half a days drive to just get in the area.

 

I think the main problem is we tend to see the easy ones on the way over & stop & retrieve those ... plus, it looks like they are going to widen the road that is on the way to those old ones....so we feel 'obligated' to get these 'easy' ones while they still exist.....priorities I guess.

 

But, those 'old ones' are still waiting & we are savoring the thought of going to at least look for them.

 

Shirley~

Link to comment

Thanks for the replies-I can totally understand the reasoning behind only logging ones you intended to find. No prob with me, it's not about the numbers(but I do like my photos! I might add some with notes instead of "found"s!).

 

That being said, I have spent most of the morning hunting, and found one. ONE. I am beginning to see that my town was a podunk town 40 years ago and it is booming right now and nothing is what it was. Probably half of the closest ones to me are along the railroad, and I've already read the discussions here about staying away from railroads, so those are out(besides the fact that we actually had a derailment last week right over where I am certain one bm was-I'd doubt it survived the mess we had.).

 

One that appeared an easy find thanks to a new subdivision creeping closer, turned into thinking I may have found it, but it doesn't match the description of the mark although the adjusted coords had me 30ft +/-; unless TRAVERSE DISK is not your normal disk. The one I found for FD0608 had a small yellow cap that said "SEC INC SURVEY MARK". The mark had the little tripod of stakes over it, but no witness sign. There were small um nails I guess with pink ribbons in roughly the areas of the reference marks, but I found nothing that actually was stamped as the description suggests. I don't know whether I found the right thing or not?

 

The one I found is special though, it is at Stones River National CemeteryFD0052, and I am surprised(sort of) that noone had found it yet. The description could throw someone off, but with reasoning and reading and rereading the description we were finally able to locate it. That one made me feel good. :) I think there may have been something else at the cemetery-just outside the wall on one corner was a concrete block, about oh 20" tall(doggone it I brought the tape measure and forgot to use it!) that I could only make out a "US" carved on top and "US" carved on one side. It looked kind of like some of the old chiseled markers I have looked at photos of, but other than that I don't know what to make of it. I will have to get the photos uploaded later.

 

I might just have to run back out and look for one more before the day is over! Boy I wish I could find a highway that had a bunch of "easy bridge ones" along it. There doesn't seem to be too many in my county to begin with hardly any of them are right along any highway!! :( <---me getting frustrated!

 

thanks again

kim

Link to comment
#2 The ones marked on topozone maps-do they generally look like the standard BM or can they basically be anything??? I submit a topomap from near me that has quite a few along one street. I took approximate coords from using the topozone thing and want to go, just wondering what I should look for!(and none of which-of course-are in the database, but thats ok!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...ikey/bm-map.jpg

Well, there is one thing that I am SURE OF here. The triangle icons with the dot in the middle are benchmarks! What kind of benchmark is the question; I believe that there is one universal symbol (triangle with dot in the middle) for just about any benchmark out there.

Link to comment

I read the description as well and thought to myself, "there sure is a lot of benchmark jargon I have to learn."

 

Paul responds:

 

Perhaps this will help.

 

STATION. Where you purchase $2 in gas to get you home at the end of the day’s hunting.

 

HEIGHT OF LIGHT ABOVE STATION. For Shell and BP, usually 45 feet in city and 75 feet along Interstate highways.

 

WITNESS POST. Secluded position from which local sheriff keeps you under observation while trying to figure out what you are doing, and whether his Homeland Security training applies.

 

REF TAG. The numbers you hold on your chest while sheriff takes your photo.

 

ELEVATED TANK. Room with vertical bars on 2nd or 3rd floor of sheriff’s office.

 

BENCHMARK RECOVERY. A twelve-step program to help those addicted to the hobby, especially where such addiction is affecting work, family, etc.

 

CONDITION POOR. Checkbook status after purchasing metal detector.

 

CONDITION MUTILATED. Don’t stand too close to the edge of pavement on roads used by big rigs. ‘Nuff said!

 

DISK. Portion of the spine affected by spending too many hours digging and using metal detector.

 

CONDITION GOOD. You got home safely. Congratulations!

Link to comment
#2 The ones marked on topozone maps-do they generally look like the standard BM or can they basically be anything??? I submit a topomap from near me that has quite a few along one street. I took approximate coords from using the topozone thing and want to go, just wondering what I should look for!(and none of which-of course-are in the database, but thats ok!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/cra...ikey/bm-map.jpg

Well, there is one thing that I am SURE OF here. The triangle icons with the dot in the middle are benchmarks! What kind of benchmark is the question; I believe that there is one universal symbol (triangle with dot in the middle) for just about any benchmark out there.

Yeah I'm starting to see that! :( I haven't found any of those on that road, but did stop at one on another road around here. It was a standard aluminum disk, and was stamped "CITY OF MURFREESBORO, TENNESSEE URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY UGB02-582"

I assume the "02" possibly refers to the year placed-as it looked pretty new. I also happened along another road in Murfreesboro the other day and all of a sudden I noticed this bright pink GPS painted along the edge of the road with arrows pointing off the side every 100 yards or so!! So now I am trying to drive and trying to look at what these "GPS"s are pointing to! I finally was able to pull over and get a look at one and only had a chance to see that it looked similiar to the one above, but didn't catch the stamp(and was being watched by a bunch of guys at the electric company in whose parking lot I had parked!). I hope to get back down there and check those out too! Geez, I practically get whiplash now when I see an orange stake or pink ribbon on the side of the road and I try desperately to read anything spray-painted on the road and look hard at the sides of old bridges as I go over them-I really should keep my eyes on the road more!! :)

Link to comment

Paul,

 

That helps a lot but to whom do I pay the fare and how much is it? Some of these guys/gals that have over 1000 finds must have run up quite a tab. Once that is out of the way when do I get my clam? If I'm especially hungry is it possible that I could get more than one?

 

I'm sorry, it's been a long week. Thanks I hurt myself laughing.

 

Happy hunting all!

Link to comment
Not all TREE Blazer's TREE'S are gone.

I find them all the time.

But I have a more rural enviroment and lots of other trees they can cut down.

I have Several here that go Back to the PLSS Survey almost  158 + year old.

I love them OLD Trees I can not even reach 1/2 way around them.

 

Were you hugging that tree? B)B):lol:

 

 

John

Well now you went and figured out my real handle,

My CB Radio friends call me TREE HUGGER.

There are only certian tree I hug though,and well out of the sight of the

 

WINESS POST

So's I tend to be descrete.

woulndn't want someone seeing from street.

 

I wouldn't want to end up in a

ELEVATED TANK

For being a nut case,

I was shakin a Hickory?

 

I sure don't want any of those

REF TAGS

Hangin off my chest.

 

Well I better get back to step 1 of my

BENCHMARK RECOVERY

 

Cause my trucks broke down and we can pass those

STATIONS

 

Gives me time to stay in

GOOD CONDITION

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...