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History Is Rewritten?


sept1c_tank

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I just noticed in the weekly newsletter that Groundspeak will be offering a new DVD that promises "More geocaching history..."

"Exclusive interviews with geocaching pioneers Dave Ulmer, Jeremy Irish, and Jon 'Moun10Bike' Stanley."

 

I'm always interested in history and people. This sounds very interesting to me, especially since Groundspeak has been accused at times of writing their own history, and purposefully omitting certain names like Dave Ulmer.

 

I noticed also that Ulmer's historic geocaching role is explained very fairly and in detail in The Complete Idiot's Guide To Geocaching, a book produced by the staff of geocaching.com and claiming to be the official book of geocaching.com.

 

Of course, all documented history is really someone's opinion of the facts. I was somewhat disappointed with the original official interpretation of geocaching history.

 

The book mentioned above, I think, treats the subject very well. I can’t wait to see the movie. :mad:

:mad:

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Thank SETH! from Washington for this DVD, which should be on EVERY cachers Christmas list. I had the pleasure, no, the HONOR of meeting him at the Phoenix airport and driving him out to do the interview with Dave Ulmer, who was camped north of the city. Then all three of us went geocaching for a couple of hours afterwards (hitting some of my caches, of course!), as well as getting to sit down at dinner and discuss geocaching and where it might go in the future. If the rest of the DVD is as interesting as the interview we taped, this is going to be something you will want in your collection!

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Thank SETH! from Washington for this DVD, which should be on EVERY cachers Christmas list. I had the pleasure, no, the HONOR of meeting him at the Phoenix airport and driving him out to do the interview with Dave Ulmer, who was camped north of the city...

“Tanks,” SETH!

 

360, I’ve had the pleasure of chatting with the inventor of geocaching by phone and email; I can’t imagine what a thrill it would be to go geocaching with Dave Ulmer.

 

Ulmer is apparently a very cool character. Jerry and I did a story about him. Here is a letter about him from a childhood friend. …And Seth! (be sure to check out the logs and gallery in the link) …and the "Guardian of the Plaque and Keeper of the O.C.B." (all geocaching together)...Sure wish I could have been there!

 

You must have some photos to share. Pleeze? :yikes:<_<

Edited by sept1c_tank
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This topic is more than a year old now.

 

It is common knowledge that Dave Ulmer, widely known as the father of geocaching, placed the first ever geocache. So why does the history presented on this site and linked to in the OP refer to him as “a someone?”

 

On May 3rd, a container of goodies was hidden by a someone outside of Portland, Oregon - in celebration of the removing of Selective Availability.

Bold added for clarity. :P:)

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This topic is more than a year old now.

 

It is common knowledge that Dave Ulmer, widely known as the father of geocaching, placed the first ever geocache. So why does the history presented on this site and linked to in the OP refer to him as “a someone?”

 

On May 3rd, a container of goodies was hidden by a someone outside of Portland, Oregon - in celebration of the removing of Selective Availability.

Bold added for clarity. :P:)

I can't help you with that, but I found this history to be accurate (i.e. well documented) and useful:

 

http://www.guysnamedkim.com/geocache/geocache_history.html

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This topic is more than a year old now.

 

It is common knowledge that Dave Ulmer, widely known as the father of geocaching, placed the first ever geocache. So why does the history presented on this site and linked to in the OP refer to him as “a someone?”

 

On May 3rd, a container of goodies was hidden by a someone outside of Portland, Oregon - in celebration of the removing of Selective Availability.

Bold added for clarity. :P:lol:

Ask Dave. Wasn't he the one who wanted his name removed?

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This topic is more than a year old now.

 

It is common knowledge that Dave Ulmer, widely known as the father of geocaching, placed the first ever geocache. So why does the history presented on this site and linked to in the OP refer to him as “a someone?”

 

On May 3rd, a container of goodies was hidden by a someone outside of Portland, Oregon - in celebration of the removing of Selective Availability.

Bold added for clarity. :D:D

Ask Dave. Wasn't he the one who wanted his name removed?

Prime Suspect, you've been around long enough to know; I know there were some differences of opinion between Dave and Jeremy. I've done considerable research on the history of geocaching, and communicated with Mr. Ulmer several times by phone and email and this is the first I've heard that he wanted his name removed. Was the name Dave Ulmer ever included in the official history presented on this site? From what I've learned, this site has never recognized him by name. Frankly, I think the father of geocaching deserves better than "a someone." :D:D

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One part of your question is answered by the wayback machine. As far back as January 27, 2001, Geocaching.com gave credit to Dave Ulmer for hiding the first cache. Sometime between February and June 2001, that text was changed to remove the proper name and just say "gentleman." Later it was changed to "someone." The statement that "this site has never recognized him by name" is utterly false.

 

Also at some point, the "placed by" name on all of Dave Ulmer's caches was changed to "Moved", the cache names were all changed to "Moved1," "Moved2," etc., the cache descriptions were erased, and the coordinates were zeroed out into the middle of the ocean.

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One part of your question is answered by the wayback machine. As far back as January 27, 2001, Geocaching.com gave credit to Dave Ulmer for hiding the first cache. Sometime between February and June 2001, that text was changed to remove the proper name and just say "gentleman." Later it was changed to "someone."

Thanks for those links.

 

I'd love to ask Dave, do you have his email addy or geocaching.com user name handy?

 

It's here...daveulmer

 

El Diablo

I have his real email address and I have submited my question directly to him. Please don't clutter his inbox with a lot of________contacting you from GC.com. If he responds, I'll post here with the details. :D:D

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That was really quick. Here's my email to Dave Ulmer:

In the *official* history of geocaching, published on the Groundspeak site, your name is conspicously absent. In a forum topic ( http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=2059500 ), I questioned this and it was insinuated that your name was withdrawn from the history at your request. Respectfully, I ask you, is this true?

 

His answer:

No.

 

Dave

 

So now I ask, respectfully, TPTB of this site, Why is Dave Ulmer, the father of geocaching, referred to as a someone in this sites version of the history of geocaching? :D:D

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...Did that not satisfy us or is it just time for all magic bullets and lone gunmen to be rehashed again?

 

Bret

 

I don't have any magic bullets. I'm simply interested in crediting Dave Ulmer as that someone who placed the very first geocache. I see that Jeremy has addressed this question before:

I already answered this question. However, since the dedication of the plaque at the first geocache, we have considered re-adding his name to the history page. The book we wrote contains the entire history as well as Dave Ulmer's name and Matt Stum's name (who initiall suggested geocaching as the new name).

 

It's been 19 months since Jul 22 2004, 08:17 AM when Jeremy considered re-adding his (Dave Ulmer's) name to the history page. Is it not a fact that Dave Ulmer hid the very first geocache? As Jeremy said, the history is explained accurately in the book (the official one), and the DVD. This is a high tech website with up to date, accurate information.

 

What's to consider? :D:D

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What's to consider? :D:D

 

How about whether or not Dave Ulmer wants his name added to the history page?

 

I have as hard a time believing that Jeremy has "Fix History Page" as #1 on his to do list as I do believing that Dave Ulmer lies in bed at night pining for his spot on an obscure page in the corner of this website. At the end of the day, both of these gentlemen have better things to do with their time.

 

Bret

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I like Richard have spoken to Dave many times by phone and email while doing an article about him for Today's Cacher. I know he seems to have bad feelings for Jeremy and Geocaching.com, but I never learned the reason why.

 

Dave is the father of Geocaching so to speak. He came up with the idea, and he hid the first cache. Someone else came up with the name and he endorsed it. That's pretty much as far as he went with the idea.

 

Mike Teague started the first listing site and then ran into problems and Jeremy took over from there. You can view this one or two ways. Jeremy either hijacked the idea, or he was in position to move it forward. I've read all the historical posts and I believe the latter.

 

I like most people tend to resent someone that comes along and captalizes on an idea that wasn't their own. However from all the research I've done I'm not sure that geocaching would be what it is today without Jeremy's or the rest of the Groundspeak team involvement.

 

I never thought about a magazine devoted to caching until I saw mention of it in the forums. I might not have been the first to think about it, but I was the first to make it happen.

 

El Diablo

Edited by El Diablo
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One part of your question is answered by the wayback machine. As far back as January 27, 2001, Geocaching.com gave credit to Dave Ulmer for hiding the first cache. Sometime between February and June 2001, that text was changed to remove the proper name and just say "gentleman." Later it was changed to "someone."

Thanks for those links.

 

I'd love to ask Dave, do you have his email addy or geocaching.com user name handy?

 

It's here...daveulmer

 

El Diablo

I have his real email address and I have submited my question directly to him. Please don't clutter his inbox with a lot of________contacting you from GC.com. If he responds, I'll post here with the details. :D:D

 

Thank you, will do. :D

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What's to consider? :D:D

 

How about whether or not Dave Ulmer wants his name added to the history page?

 

I have as hard a time believing that Jeremy has "Fix History Page" as #1 on his to do list as I do believing that Dave Ulmer lies in bed at night pining for his spot on an obscure page in the corner of this website. At the end of the day, both of these gentlemen have better things to do with their time.

 

Bret

It may not be important to either of the gentlemen. It is important to me though. Dave Ulmer hid the first cache, not a someone.

 

But history is history, and it would be so easy to fix. :D:D

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The following is a PM from Team 360 who is exercising a self-imposed ban in this forum:

 

Whatever Dave Ulmer did or did not do to his cache pages was his choice, but I certainly feel that referring to him as a "someone" is still a slap in the face from TPTB, even more so after Dave gave Jeremy such high praise on the geocaching DVD about how well the GC.com website is run and the quality of the content.

GC.com owes its entire existence to Dave Ulmer. If I were Jeremy, I would be sending him a check every month.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Jeff.

360.

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The following is a PM from Team 360 who is exercising a self-imposed ban in this forum:

 

Whatever Dave Ulmer did or did not do to his cache pages was his choice, but I certainly feel that referring to him as a "someone" is still a slap in the face from TPTB, even more so after Dave gave Jeremy such high praise on the geocaching DVD about how well the GC.com website is run and the quality of the content.

GC.com owes its entire existence to Dave Ulmer. If I were Jeremy, I would be sending him a check every month.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Jeff.

360.

 

If 360 wants to put in his 2 cents worth then let him do so his self. Otherwise his opinion is hearsay and useless.

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

El Diablo

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Just out digging around through all the links and this one (make sure you read everything) was the oldest that was not mentioned here that seems related to this topic.

 

I am satsified with the history of geocaching as I know it, yes it took someone to think of the idea and it took someone to run with the idea. Personal beliefs and opinions are just like religion and politics - not everyone agrees.

 

Much effort is put into the business end of geocaching and business seems to be growing every day.

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There is a lot more to the history of Geocaching than who placed the first cache. The OP as usual would like for you to focus on what he considers a controversial subject.

 

The fact is that history isn't being re-written...it's being written daily. If you want to talk about the history of caching you have to move beyond who came up with the idea and focus on where it has gone since then.

 

If you really want history, go back to the early forums and read the ideas posted and see how many of them were implemented. There is a lot of history for this sport that goes way beyond the original idea of caching it's self.

 

Or you can follow the OP's original intention and stir the pot.

 

El Diablo

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Just out digging around through all the links and this one (make sure you read everything) was the oldest that was not mentioned here that seems related to this topic.

 

Haven't read that thread in a long time bogleman, thanks.

 

It would be interesting to know what the find log by Dave Ulmer on the APE cache originally said and what it was edited to. It would also be nice to have him mentionend by name in the history here. I'm not going to lose sleep over either tho.

 

That's my 2 cents. :anicute:

Edited by Corp Of Discovery
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How about whether or not Dave Ulmer wants his name added to the history page?

 

I have as hard a time believing that Jeremy has "Fix History Page" as #1 on his to do list as I do believing that Dave Ulmer lies in bed at night pining for his spot on an obscure page in the corner of this website. At the end of the day, both of these gentlemen have better things to do with their time.

 

First off, I don't think geocaching.com is required to be the historians of the sport. Quite frankly, I didn't ever even notice that page until this thread. It has been mentioned that Dave has been credited elsewhere by TPTB here, so I think they, and everyone here, knows his contribution to the hobby.

 

All that being said, history doesn't care if someone wants their name mentioned, or if they have better things to do with their time. It is what it is. I'm sure Nixon had better things to do with his time than hear people talk about Watergate ad nauseum, but it is/was a piece of history.

 

Or you can follow the OP's original intention and stir the pot.

 

I didn't take the OP's intention as stirring a pot. If you read "someone" was the first President of the United States, you'd wonder why there wasn't a mention of George Washington.

 

I tend to think, as CYBret says, it's just an oversite and not high on the priority list. Not a conspiracy. I think. :anicute:

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...Or you can follow the OP's original intention and stir the pot.

 

El Diablo

I don't see that myself or anyone else in this discussion is stirring a pot, unless it's you by trying to make this controversial. There is nothing controversial about this; everybody knows that Dave Ulmer placed the first geocache. Even TPTB of this website aknowledge it.

 

...history doesn't care if someone wants their name mentioned

I'm not in any way trying to remove, or lessen any credit due to anybody influential in the history of geocaching. Jeremy has accomplished the biggest and most successful listing service and Jeremy has pioneered much of the early days of geocaching right up to the present. But Dave Ulmer placed the first cache, not a someone.

 

And I just don't buy the priority argument; we're talking about changing two words in one document. :anicute::huh:

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[And I just don't buy the priority argument; we're talking about changing two words in one document. :anicute::huh:

There are lots of places that "just 2 words" need to be changed.

For example, the FAQ still claims a good first GPS to buy is the Magellan 315.

Is that a conspiracy too?

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I'm not reading the answer in those threads.

I gather from those threads that Ulmer asked for his name to not be associated with gc.com, and that was the reason.

 

But the earlier short e-mail response to sept1c_tank was that he did not do that. Could it be that HIS view has changed, while gc.com is still holding him to previous requests?

 

The whole thing is rather bizarre and trite. But I do think it was a legitimate question to ask.

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[And I just don't buy the priority argument; we're talking about changing two words in one document. :):D

There are lots of places that "just 2 words" need to be changed.

For example, the FAQ still claims a good first GPS to buy is the Magellan 315.

Is that a conspiracy too?

 

The word conspiracy continues to surface; I have accused none of conspiracy. I am simply a lover of history. Dave Ulmer placed the first geocache. That is a fact.

 

Wow.

 

A lot of people seem to be taking the OP to heart, as if they are personally affected by this question. And some responses are just outright rude.

 

It was a legitimate question. If it has been answered before, a simple Markwell would suffice.

 

Jeremy stated over a year ago that he was considering making a change to the history document that would add Dave Ulmer's name. As far as any Markwells, this quote comes the closest to explaining the situation:

 

…I mention Dave Ulmer at every possible opportunity with reporters, as well as give Mike Teague credit for a great job. However as long as the site has existed I haven't had more than one email passed between Dave Ulmer and me, nor has he contributed in any way to the sport, in the forums, placing caches, whatever. To consider all the work I've done to work on the sport, I feel like I was punched in the stomach for no reason…

 

Including Dave Ulmer's name in the history document may mean little to Ulmer himself, but this is history we're discussing, not fiction. Do the research yourself. If you Google the history of geocaching, you'll find Dave Ulmer listed by name in every document but the one included on this site. :D

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Geocaching does have a rocky history. The tricky part is to be able to chonical what matters at the time it happens when the only way to know what really mattered is with hindsight.

 

Yes Dave Ulmer hid the first cache. It looks like Mike had the first site. It looks like Jeremy scrapped other sites for his starting data, early controversies spawned competition, the Groundspeak forums came into being due to heavy moderation (per GPSGames.orgs history) on another site and so on.

 

If this sites history isn't quite right, or you need more information than "Someone" hid the first cache, then maybe the better question is who's got the right version of history? Warts and all?

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I just noticed in the weekly newsletter that Groundspeak will be offering a new DVD that promises "More geocaching history..."

"Exclusive interviews with geocaching pioneers Dave Ulmer, Jeremy Irish, and Jon 'Moun10Bike' Stanley."

 

I'm always interested in history and people. This sounds very interesting to me, especially since Groundspeak has been accused at times of writing their own history, and purposefully omitting certain names like Dave Ulmer.

 

I noticed also that Ulmer's historic geocaching role is explained very fairly and in detail in The Complete Idiot's Guide To Geocaching, a book produced by the staff of geocaching.com and claiming to be the official book of geocaching.com.

 

Of course, all documented history is really someone's opinion of the facts. I was somewhat disappointed with the original official interpretation of geocaching history.

 

The book mentioned above, I think, treats the subject very well. I can’t wait to see the movie. :D

:)

 

 

 

I agree with Sept1c_Tank and I'm new to this but I've researched this topic. I think in a true history, of anything, the person responsible should be recognized! I love history and wonder how much is inaccurate but here the proof is obvious so just do your little 2 minute edit and make your history true.

 

Thanks for allowing this forum to be available to the public. :D Side note: Dave Ulmer is probably disgusted about how his invention as been completely taken out of proportion and just isn't interested anymore. Wouldn't you be after awhile?!

Edited by Flutterbutter
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Thanks, bogleman for posting the link to that thread... and conspiracy theorists can go crawl back in their corners, since it is still there. :smile:

 

Project APE Mission #1 was quite close to my caching area in California. Kinda cool to see names like Ron Streeter and Buxley in the thread, as they were significant contributors to the growth Geocaching in the area.

 

There's also a lot of "undocumented history" that I've heard from various people, and this thread puts all that in an interesting context. I'm still using this site, so hopefully, the sport will march on while we wait for the minor details to be worked out.

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Thanks, bogleman for posting the link to that thread... and conspiracy theorists can go crawl back in their corners, since it is still there. :smile:

 

Project APE Mission #1 was quite close to my caching area in California. Kinda cool to see names like Ron Streeter and Buxley in the thread, as they were significant contributors to the growth Geocaching in the area.

 

There's also a lot of "undocumented history" that I've heard from various people, and this thread puts all that in an interesting context. I'm still using this site, so hopefully, the sport will march on while we wait for the minor details to be worked out.

 

 

I won't wait for the minor details to be worked out, I'm still going to go on having fun Geocaching! I know, along with anyone else that cares, what the proven truth is because I have done my own investigating. I'm sure the other geocachers will do the same in continuing to search for caches no matter if Jeremy edits his history or not! Lot's of love! :smile::wub: Dave Ulman sounds like an awesome guy! Kudos to HIM for inventing something that's so fun!

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