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Responsibilities


Mopar

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As cachers, what responsibilities do we have to the game, and to other cachers?

 

Do we have a responsibility to report problems with a cache, or should we just pretend the problem doesn't exist, log "thanks for the smiley" and move on?

 

If you are accosted while caching and accused of being on private property illegally, should that be noted in a log, or should you just let the next cacher take their chances like you did? They let you go, that's what counts, right?

 

If you find a cache that is hidden in a way that might shed a bad light on our game and cause it to be regulated or banned, should that be noted, or should you say "not my problem, as long as I get a find" and move on? I mean, nobody else seems to have had a problem with the cache, what could go wrong?

 

Should you comment on drug users near a cache so other cachers and the hider can make an informed decision, or burrow you head in the sand and pretend drug hangouts and pickle parks don't exist?

 

Should cachers comment on problems like these, even though they may not be flattering to the hider, or should we write how wonderful the cache was, and let the next finder find out what a piece of crap the cache really was themselves. I mean, you had to hike up a mountain to find a soggy pringles can claiming to be a cache, why shouldn't they?

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I think, if you found yourself in one of those situations, you should take it up directly with the cache owner prior to taking any other action.  The response of the cache owner should dictate your next move, if any.

Thats fine, but what if the situation is a legal one or a hazardous one? Are you saying you don't have a responsibilty to notify other cachers of legal or hazzard concerns? Screw your fellow cachers, as long as you email the hider you're ok?

 

Or, what if its not that serious, or you do what you say and tell the hider first, before posting a log and the hider for whatever reason ignores it? Do you have a responsibility to other cachers, and the preservation of the game in your area, to notify other cachers then?

The response of the cache owner should dictate your next move, if any

And what response from the hider should dictate what move by the finder?

Edited by Mopar
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With a number of Parks in my caching area moving to ban Geocaching, I log it if I find anything that might be a concern, if it is minor I do try take it up with the hider. I have removed one cache at the request of the property owner who confronted me with cache in hand, the cache was returned to the cache owner at a later date. If it is something that might reflect poorly on Geocaching, steps should be taken to prevent cache removals and bans by property owners. I have 4 parks in my immediate locale who do not allow caching or has actively removed all caches from their parks. <_<

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Hi,

 

I feel that if you think there is something wrong with the cache placement or the cache has been muggled or is gone, you should email the owner before posting a log condemning the cache.

 

I feel that if you feel that the cache is dangerous in a way not regularly expected in geocaching (ie - next to the fence of a nuclear power plant or insdie the grounds of the White House or filled with drugs and fireworks as opposed to a steep hike or rock face or scuba stuff required) you should post a log warning other geocachers, get in touch with the owner, and, depending on the perceived level of hazard, maybe get in touch with the local approver.

 

If you are stonewalled in either or both approaches, you should probably run in small circles yipping like a pekinese, and post something obvious yet argumentative in the forums. <_<

 

nfa-jamie

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This is obviously in response to

this locked thread.

 

The last post of that thread, by Mtn-Man, says:

 

Since the original poster has raised the same questions in the other topic he links, I am going to close this topic as a duplicate topic. Feel free to continue the discussion there.

 

Do not unlock this topic or post a new topic in the General Topics area.

 

I wanted to start a thread about this to express my feelings, but I didn't based on the approver request.

 

<_<

 

sd

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I think, if you found yourself in one of those situations, you should take it up directly with the cache owner prior to taking any other action.  The response of the cache owner should dictate your next move, if any.

Thats fine, but what if the situation is a legal one or a hazardous one? Are you saying you don't have a responsibilty to notify other cachers of legal or hazzard concerns? Screw your fellow cachers, as long as you email the hider you're ok?

No, I'm not saying that at all. If there is a safety issue with the cache that puts a finder in some sort of immediate danger when seeking the cache, then I agree that it should be mentioned in the cache log to alert other seekers as to the inherent danger. If the cache is illegal, then an SBA note should be posted.

 

Or, what if its not that serious, or you do what you say and tell the hider first, before posting a log and the hider for whatever reason ignores it? Do you have a responsibility to other cachers, and the preservation of the game in your area, to notify other cachers then?

If the matter is not serious and the hider does not respond after you've contacted them, then you should take the matter up with an approver, in private. Why do you feel it necessary to warn other cachers about something that is not serious?

 

The response of the cache owner should dictate your next move, if any

And what response from the hider should dictate what move by the finder?

That is pretty subjective and would depend on the cache, the situation, the hider and their response. Common sense and courtesy should dictate any action required.

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Should cachers comment on problems like these, even though they may not be flattering to the hider, or should we write how wonderful the cache was, and let the next finder find out what a piece of crap the cache really was themselves. I mean, you had to hike up a mountain to find a soggy pringles can claiming to be a cache, why shouldn't they?

I also believe that if you have a problem with a cache you should address it with the owner prior to making your complaints public. A lot of people hide caches that they think are great.... but that dosen't mean that it is.

 

Keep in mind that what isn't a great, or even a good cache to you dosen't mean that it isn't to another. If you find a cache that is sub to what you believe it should be, then by all means let the owner know in a very polite way. He or she might welcome your constructive in-put and together you can find a solution to making the cache better.

 

No matter what...pubic humiliation should never be used! This is a pretty close knit community and we should always go out of our way to help others, not ridicule them. There will always be cachers out there that won't take your advice or will be insulted if you offer any. So be it. As a whole though most will welcome a few pointers.

 

What I'm trying to say is be nice. No one ever placed a cache that they thought was lame. They placed that cache and egarley awaited the logs to come in praising the cache. Imagine the impact you would have by publicly humiliating them. Everyone has feelings and what you say and do will impact them in some way.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

El Diablo

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We had this issue come up a while back. A local hider archived all his hides because a few cachers put less than glowing comments in their find logs. The finders were not being mean or malicious, just honest about their experience. We eventually worked it out and the caches were restored.

 

I will say here, what I said then. I often cache with my two young sons. I read over the cache pages including the first page or so of logs before choosing the caches for them. I want their experience to be fun and enjoyable and I appreciate it when previous finders make note of anything that concerned them. There was one cache in the area that had a rotting deer carcass near the trailhead. I'm sure it wasn't there when the cache was hidden, but if one of the finders hadn't noted it in their log I might have gone to that cache with the kids.

 

So as cachers I think it's our responsibility to be honest in our logs. Sure I could just email the hider, but while I'm waiting for him to respond how many other people are having to walk past a rotting carcass to find his cache.

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I'm with the EDIT:nevermind crew on this one.

Oh and SD too.

How many threads do you need to discuss the same topic?

Just for clarification I'll post this - I don't think I was clear enough in my previous post:

 

There is an issue that was being in a regional forum. Someone felt that it may be an issue that is pertinent to a larger audience and brought it up. An approver locked the thread (which will now fall off of the main page within a few days or less) and linked back to the original topic in the regional forum that most people don't read. The points that were brought up may have been worth discussing. I'll never know because all of the details weren't shared.

 

However, there are rules in place, we should all follow them. (IE, if the mods ask you to do something (within reason), you should.)

 

It's unfair that some people don't follow the requests of the moderators.

This also could look like certain people can do what they want.

 

Personally, I don't think the thread in the General Forum should have been locked. I don't normally read the "New England" forum and wouldn't have been aware of the incident if it hadn't been in the General Forum. Sometimes things should be allowed to be brought up in more than one forum.

 

southdeltan

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So as cachers I think it's our responsibility to be honest in our logs

 

You can be honest without being mean.

I never said anything about being mean. If that is what came across in my post, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean you. I was referring to some critical logs that I've seen that could have been worded a lot more tactfully.

Edited by briansnat
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This is not the same topic as the one that was closed although it addresses similar issues. As long as this stays civil it will remain open.

Where were you earlier when mtn-man closed my thread?

 

The nepotism around here right now is disgusting.

I think the difference is that your thread was nearly identical to one already active in the NE forum. Though spawned from the other thread, this one covers different ground.

Edited by briansnat
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I didn't mean you. I was referring to some critical logs that I've seen that could have been worded a lot more tactfully.

How tactful your log is might be straying from the topic just a bit. Tact is a funny thing, it looks different from every angle and in every situation. I might read a BrianSnat log that looked mean to to me, but I wouldn't know that you HAD talked to the cache hider first, and he laughed in your face and said your real problem is just that you don't like to hike (on a 1/2 mile round trip). I probably wouldn't know that the same guy had left plenty of nasty logs on yours and other peoples caches, usually with groundless complaints that caused you make needless maintenance runs, and without the courtesy of an email first. I might not know that the guy badmouths you all the time to other cachers. If I did know those things (and it would be pretty tactless to include them in your cache log, right?), I might look at your "mean" log from a different angle.

 

Now, does a cacher bear some responsibility to his fellow cachers?

I say yes, and the amount depends on the problem. I think so, and I think the level depends on the issue, If it's just a poor hide then i think most of it should be in private. If it's an issue that may effect future cachers, then most certainly it should be in the logs. That doesn't mean push the SBA button. If it's an issue the cache owner may be able to rectify, then there is no need to suggest it be archived. I think the SBA should be used as a last resort, or when there is no possible way to fix the cache (like when the FBI tells you to remove the cache, NOW).

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I'm with the EDIT:nevermind crew on this one.

Oh and SD too.

How many threads do you need to discuss the same topic?

Just for clarification I'll post this - I don't think I was clear enough in my previous post:

 

There is an issue that was being in a regional forum. Someone felt that it may be an issue that is pertinent to a larger audience and brought it up. An approver locked the thread (which will now fall off of the main page within a few days or less) and linked back to the original topic in the regional forum that most people don't read. The points that were brought up may have been worth discussing. I'll never know because all of the details weren't shared.

 

However, there are rules in place, we should all follow them. (IE, if the mods ask you to do something (within reason), you should.)

 

It's unfair that some people don't follow the requests of the moderators.

This also could look like certain people can do what they want.

 

Personally, I don't think the thread in the General Forum should have been locked. I don't normally read the "New England" forum and wouldn't have been aware of the incident if it hadn't been in the General Forum. Sometimes things should be allowed to be brought up in more than one forum.

 

southdeltan

Lets see, the locked thread is a duplicate of another one, and both are about whether of not Groundspeak has a right to contact a land manager to determine if a cache was placed illegally.

This thread is about if a cacher has a responsibility to note in their logs that a cache might be placed illegal. While there is a common ground in both may involve an illegal cache, they are 2 totally different topics of discussion.

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To get back on topic...

 

what responsibilities do we have to the game, and to other cachers?

 

Responsibilities? (Just remember, you asked!)

 

Posting logs detailing unforseen DANGERS to warn other geocachers IS appropriate.

 

In my opinion, posting a simply critical log, such as this one (or worse, this) expressing a subjective opinion on a 10-year old boy's cache page is totally inappropriate.

 

Actually, those logs ellicited lots of comments from cachers in my area such as, "we may be newbies, but isn't that something that should be emailed privately?"

 

It also caused many, both newbies and highly respected local cachers to say such things as, "wow, I hope they never bash one of my caches", "I stressed out just seeing the subject line, X found my cache..."

 

Myself? I privately email. In that example, I asked if the cacher thought it was appropriate to send such a log to a 10-year old boy and might it be a bit over the top? Sadly it turns out it was just a personal vendetta.

 

Is that an example of responsible logging?

 

I guess the true measure is if you'd appreciate receiving such a log yourself... Unforseen or new hazards? Yes. Personal attacks? No.

 

hth,

 

Randy

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Lets see, the locked thread is a duplicate of another one, and both are about whether of not Groundspeak has a right to contact a land manager to determine if a cache was placed illegally.

This thread is about if a cacher has a responsibility to note in their logs that a cache might be placed illegal. While there is a common ground in both may involve an illegal cache, they are 2 totally different topics of discussion.

Incorrect, the *regional forum* post is about a good deed done by a CT geocacher to persuade a private land trust to keep their doors open to geocaching even after the de facto face of geocaching came in and said "we think you should hate our cache".

 

The *general forum* post was on the development and discussion of whether it is good policy for Groundspeak to bypass the hider of a cache and go straight to a land manager with permission/cache issues rather than the *actual party* they are in contract with regarding these policies of obtaining permission.

 

This posts claim is to the "responsibility of geocachers". While I'm sure it was entirely original in design and completely without foundation in any other topics at the time...the fact that in the regional discussion above it was discussed that logs by yourself were out of line and collusion between yourself and Lapaglia may have been in order....and now you ask whether something like those logs are good for geocaching...well, you can hopefully see how some of us are in consternation at the closure of one example of nuance and not the other...

 

You know...unless mtn-man = Mopar.

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Lets see, the locked thread is a duplicate of another one, and both are about whether of not Groundspeak has a right to contact a land manager to determine if a cache was placed illegally.

This thread is about if a cacher has a responsibility to note in their logs that a cache might be placed illegal. While there is a common ground in both may involve an illegal cache, they are 2 totally different topics of discussion.

Incorrect, the *regional forum* post is about a good deed done by a CT geocacher to persuade a private land trust to keep their doors open to geocaching even after the de facto face of geocaching came in and said "we think you should hate our cache".

 

The *general forum* post was on the development and discussion of whether it is good policy for Groundspeak to bypass the hider of a cache and go straight to a land manager with permission/cache issues rather than the *actual party* they are in contract with regarding these policies of obtaining permission.

 

This posts claim is to the "responsibility of geocachers". While I'm sure it was entirely original in design and completely without foundation in any other topics at the time...the fact that in the regional discussion above it was discussed that logs by yourself were out of line and collusion between yourself and Lapaglia may have been in order....and now you ask whether something like those logs are good for geocaching...well, you can hopefully see how some of us are in consternation at the closure of one example of nuance and not the other...

 

You know...unless mtn-man = Mopar.

Now we are getting into personal attacks. Nothing good can come from that. You can make a valid point and let intelligent people draw their own conclusions without attacking anyone, be it a well respected member of the community or a newbie.

 

Give the same respect that you ask for.

 

El Diablo

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As cachers, what responsibilities do we have to the game, and to other cachers?

 

Leave things better than you found them. be nice. be honest. be helpful.

(and something about no pirates?)

 

Do we have a responsibility to report problems with a cache, or should we just pretend the problem doesn't exist, log "thanks for the smiley" and move on?

Who are you reporting to?

If you find something wrong, let the owner know for sure. If its dangerous or illegal make sure you post about it on the cache too (to pass info, not trash anyone).

 

If you are accosted while caching and accused of being on private property illegally, should that be noted in a log, or should you just let the next cacher take their chances like you did? They let you go, that's what counts, right?

Log it and email the owner.

 

If you find a cache that is hidden in a way that might shed a bad light on our game and cause it to be regulated or banned, should that be noted, or should you say "not my problem, as long as I get a find" and move on? I mean, nobody else seems to have had a problem with the cache, what could go wrong?

might

Use your judgement, if you think its going to be a problem, rasie the issue with the owner. If its important enough that you would want the next to visit to know, post on the cache page as well. That done, move on if its not very important.

 

Should you comment on drug users near a cache so other cachers and the hider can make an informed decision, or burrow you head in the sand and pretend drug hangouts and pickle parks don't exist?

No, admitting your drug use can probably be used against you in a court of law ;) .

Seriously, if you think there are illegal things going on, I would post them. This doesn't mean owner is obligated remove the cache (though it would probably be good, and its super that the owner of the cache in the linked thread is concerned). Not that I would probably visit such caches, but if Im warned and choose to seek the cache, its my choice.

 

Should cachers comment on problems like these, even though they may not be flattering to the hider, or should we write how wonderful the cache was, and let the next finder find out what a piece of crap the cache really was themselves. I mean, you had to hike up a mountain to find a soggy pringles can claiming to be a cache, why shouldn't they?

Do both, write what you liked, and what you didn't. You shouldn't call the cache lame because one, its ripping on the person who placed it, and two is 'lame' by your definition. (If you say it wasn't worth the trip I would believe you Mopar, but without a ... <_< written? standard, if just anyone posts that a cache is or isn't lame, it doesn't tell me much.)

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Lets see, the locked thread is a duplicate of another one, and both are about whether of not Groundspeak has a right to contact a land manager to determine if a cache was placed illegally.

This thread is about if a cacher has a responsibility to note in their logs that a cache might be placed illegal. While there is a common ground in both may involve an illegal cache, they are 2 totally different topics of discussion.

Incorrect, the *regional forum* post is about a good deed done by a CT geocacher to persuade a private land trust to keep their doors open to geocaching even after the de facto face of geocaching came in and said "we think you should hate our cache".

 

The *general forum* post was on the development and discussion of whether it is good policy for Groundspeak to bypass the hider of a cache and go straight to a land manager with permission/cache issues rather than the *actual party* they are in contract with regarding these policies of obtaining permission.

 

This posts claim is to the "responsibility of geocachers". While I'm sure it was entirely original in design and completely without foundation in any other topics at the time...the fact that in the regional discussion above it was discussed that logs by yourself were out of line and collusion between yourself and Lapaglia may have been in order....and now you ask whether something like those logs are good for geocaching...well, you can hopefully see how some of us are in consternation at the closure of one example of nuance and not the other...

 

You know...unless mtn-man = Mopar.

Now we are getting into personal attacks. Nothing good can come from that. You can make a valid point and let intelligent people draw their own conclusions without attacking anyone, be it a well respected member of the community or a newbie.

 

Give the same respect that you ask for.

 

El Diablo

We are not only getting into personal attacks, but yet again another topic is taken off topic.

 

Juggler, you habitually take topics off topic. Please stop. You are forcing moderators to deal with this habitual behavior in a warning fashion and with moderated postings to end the practice.

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It is the responsibility a cacher to warn other cachers of potential problems that might pose a physical danger to a searcher (ie. poison ivy).

Mentioning that you were approached by someone wondering what you were doing is more of an anecdotal part of your log, unless it was someone with the authority to order that the cache be removed (land manager, property owner).

If you question the difficulty rating, classification of the cache, placement of the stages of a multi, if permission was given, it should be handled in an e-mail to the cache owner.

Since all of this seems to be based around a couple of logs in a particular cache, I feel compelled to throw my opinion at you. It's taken me awhile to dig through the different threads and read the logs and the cache page, but here's what I came up with:

Mopar and GeoHo went overboard in their logs. Most of what they said could have been better handled in an e-mail to the cache owner. At this point they should apologize to the cache owner.

Groundspeak should not have contacted the property manager directly. The most they should have done was disable the cache and e-mail the cache owner to resolve the problem.

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I'm with the EDIT:nevermind crew on this one.

Oh and SD too.

How many threads do you need to discuss the same topic?

Just for clarification I'll post this - I don't think I was clear enough in my previous post:

 

There is an issue that was being in a regional forum. Someone felt that it may be an issue that is pertinent to a larger audience and brought it up. An approver locked the thread (which will now fall off of the main page within a few days or less) and linked back to the original topic in the regional forum that most people don't read. The points that were brought up may have been worth discussing. I'll never know because all of the details weren't shared.

 

However, there are rules in place, we should all follow them. (IE, if the mods ask you to do something (within reason), you should.)

 

It's unfair that some people don't follow the requests of the moderators.

This also could look like certain people can do what they want.

 

Personally, I don't think the thread in the General Forum should have been locked. I don't normally read the "New England" forum and wouldn't have been aware of the incident if it hadn't been in the General Forum. Sometimes things should be allowed to be brought up in more than one forum.

 

southdeltan

Lets see, the locked thread is a duplicate of another one, and both are about whether of not Groundspeak has a right to contact a land manager to determine if a cache was placed illegally.

This thread is about if a cacher has a responsibility to note in their logs that a cache might be placed illegal. While there is a common ground in both may involve an illegal cache, they are 2 totally different topics of discussion.

I didn't see the locked thread as identical to the regional thread. I too felt it was about this:

 

The *general forum* post was on the development and discussion of whether it is good policy for Groundspeak to bypass the hider of a cache and go straight to a land manager with permission/cache issues rather than the *actual party* they are in contract with regarding these policies of obtaining permission.

 

This thread is in response to the same incident/cache. The MOD asked that the subject be dropped - but this is obviously a way for you to get in more comments about the same thing. You can change the wording a bit, but it's still about the same thing.

 

I don't think it's about the responsibility, I think it's about personal justification.

 

sd

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Hey mods, loosen up please. Let people discuss what they want to discuss without constantly being threatened with closing the thread. Conversations have a natural course, let them just evolve. Don't be too rigid about this "on topic" rule, please. Forums are about communication. Let people communicate freely as they see fit. There is nothing in this thread that needs moderator action.

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Mopar wrote:

 

....or should we write how wonderful the cache was, and let the next finder find out what a piece of crap the cache really was themselves

 

Now we're talking!

This is an issue that I've pondered and verbally discussed with other cachers for quite some time. After reading the link to Mopar's log, I felt that I should comment.

 

A cache owner shouldn't expect every comment, logged or not, to be positive. And, I don't view a negative comment as bashing the owner of the cache.

 

I'm sick of finding caches that are pointless. Sure I can filter out some, but mostly I find it difficult to do because of other cachers willingness to say "TFTC", "great hide", and so on, without any explanations why. If more cachers were as honest as Mopar in their logs, I think that it would only improve the quality of caches.

 

Personally, I'm in it for the adventure. Challenge me, take me to a place that I didn't know existed, be creative and innovative. Realistically, I don't expect every cache to be great, but if I can find just one good characteristic, I'm happy.

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The original question about our responsibilities is a valid and interesting one. Obviously, if a cache is believed to dangerous, or illegal, some kind of action should be taken. But to what extent, and who should take that action?

 

If misapproved cache coordinates led me to a group of signs ordering “Danger, No Trespassing,” I may react by directly involving the cache approver, or possibly even the landowner. In other situations, I might add an informative note to the logs, or I might contact the cache owner.

 

We are responsible, I believe, for policing our own sport. But we are also responsible for respecting the dignity of our peers. Both of these responsibilities can be achieved by good communication.

 

It’s a big word: communication. It’s easy for me to say. Not so easy for me to do (I would guess that many others find real communication not so easy).

 

It’s not so easy to accomplish. I treated the subject briefly in an August editorial in Today’s Cacher. Probably the most profound statement in that editorial reads, “What we write is perhaps inspired (or not) by emotion. But, to the reader, it is just a cold, emotionless word. The recipient must supply the intended emotion to properly understand the words. The words by themselves, undressed of the human inner voice that wrote them, can say something unintended and totally out of context. “

 

So, yes, we have responsibilities; we should diligently police our own game. We should point out our fallacies and mistakes to each other, and sometime we should even involve a higher authority.

 

But remember, the written word, whether in logs, private emails, or the forums is powerful, like a sword. Be careful where you point it. <_<;)

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When someone writes a negatively sounding log, it is helpful to look at whether he or she actually found the cache. When one doesn't find the cache, one is much more inclined to write negative comments. I know, I did this myself once. I wrote that the place was not nice at all, too many muggles, and so on. A couple of visits later I found the cache and wrote a quite positive log <_<

 

I wonder how much Mopar was influenced by the fact that he couldn't find the cache...

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You know...unless mtn-man = Mopar.

 

Now we are getting into personal attacks. Nothing good can come from that. You can make a valid point and let intelligent people draw their own conclusions without attacking anyone, be it a well respected member of the community or a newbie.

We are not only getting into personal attacks, but yet again another topic is taken off topic.

 

Juggler, you habitually take topics off topic. Please stop. You are forcing moderators to deal with this habitual behavior in a warning fashion and with moderated postings to end the practice.

There were no personal attacks in there.

 

Read through the other topic that this is related to and you'll see that I was only using an extreme version of his own poor logic (in his case "if Randy=Lapaglia, then XYZ") to show that it made no sense.

 

I don't resort to personal attacks like "Mopar is a poopoo head" or "mtn-man is stupid". There's no need as Diablo pointed out; it's enough for me to show more substantial logic than what is presented in opposing arguments and allow the reader to decide.

 

As for this topic, no need to close it on my account. I'm done with it. I was right the first time when I edited myself out of it. I took the hook and came back in when sd was willing to point out everything that I thought was wrong with it. I didn't want sd to have to stand alone in a sea of antipathy towards the common users of this site, from the 10 year old cache hider who had Groundspeak arguing against them on their own cache to those who know that writing a few thoughts in paragraph form isn't "going off topic in your own post"...it's a refusal to participate in a world of mono-syllabic sound bites where if more than one thought is expressed it's a crime against the readers.

 

I refuse to stand idle while bad things happen to good caches and good people. I like this hobby and if this site is going to do everything in its power to force people to use it over other sites, then it's going to have to live with the malcontented and rebellious who disagree with how the "stewards of the game" (their words, not mine) sometimes ruin some of the good in it.

 

For *that* is *my* view of responsibility as a geocacher.

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Resposabilities?

 

My main one is seeing to the well being of my family.

 

Caching wise it is to have fun. Anytime I have had a problem with a cache it has been handled thru emails with the cache owner. I may have mentioned anything only slightly, if that, in the found or DNF log itself. If I did not receive a response from the owner, I put a SBA note on it, and put the reasons for it in that log. Anything else- I figure this is a hobby done by ADULTS, they should be able to figure things out for themselves. Yes, there may be children doing it too, as a matter of fact my 9 year old son goes out with me frequently. But they do not (or at least should not) be doing this without adult supervision.

 

As to the specific cache that started all of this: I do think that Mopar's and Geo Ho's logs went a tad bit overboard and the whole situation could have been handled better from all sides. Basically that is just not what I would have done. That, however, is not to say that what they did was wrong. They, like the rest of us, are playing this game in their own individualistic way.

 

Now- who's got the popcorn?

Edited by Corp Of Discovery
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Well, having been the owner of the recent "drug cache" here's what was going through my head when I pulled it:

 

1) most of my caches are family-orientated. I want children to enjoy time with their parents and have fun. I note this in the cache listing.

 

2) My caches are all "themed": reading, viewpoint, playground for kids. Also noted in the listed.

 

So, when it comes to responsibility, I feel the following:

 

A) Health and Safety. You must not endager lives from falling, drowning, violence, or potential damage to health (ie. getting stuck by a used syringe or bitten by a coyote in it's den). Outdoor activities have *some* risk, but not of this type.

 

:blink: Respect: for private property, noise, traffic, environmental safety (such as closed trials or replanting areas)

 

C) Gameplay: It's a game and should be treated as such. Challenge younger and older players with appropriate puzzles, hides, etc.

 

D) Use the rating system: For some folks, doing a rock face climb 50 meters up a limestoneor granite cliff is fun. For others, deadly! Note the general conditions in your listing.

 

Some things I think are pretty much no-brainers though. Don't bury your cache on a railway track, next to quicksand, near a wolf den, etc.

 

Of course, sometimes you get surprized! I had NO idea that there might be drug users in the area of the cache I placed with my daughter. It makes me sad to have "Maddy and Daddy 1" archived until I move it. Take a look at the gallery -- my daughters smiling cache-hiding face does not anticipate the syringes that found themselves nearby. I'm not going to be the guy that indirectly has another cacher (young, old, informed or not) infected with Hepatitis.

 

Generally, I think the game works well as long as cache owners remember that with ownership comes responsibility.

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As a group, the Central Ohio solution has been to:

 

1) Attempt to contact the owner directly.

 

2) Post a note in the Caches in Crisis section of our web site to see if anyone can fill in some history or add a comment or two. Our reviewer regularly entertains himself in this topic area, so it gets attention from the population at large immediately.

 

3) Figure out what we can do about it. (if and only if the owner is unresponsive.)

 

A note about being uncomfortable in an area or that an area is off park property has never been frowned on in our area. I'd hope it never would be. We need to be vigilant about out placements and finds just as we expect the land managers and civil servants to protect us and the areas we use frequently. It seems respectful to discuss these caches in a timely and public manner, in the hope that issues can be resolved.

 

Is this more on topic? I have no idea what the other references are to.

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I think anyone's responsibility is to alert others of undisclosed safety, legal, or ethical issues. The degrees to which you go should be determined by the situation at hand.

 

Some folks seem to make it a habit of making mountains out of molehills.

 

Here's a situation. I'm on a hunt and someone comes up and says I shouldn't be there, I'd query them as to why. If I'm fairly certain of my location and it's on land where it appears that I'm allowed to be, but they are a neighbor or "concerned citizen" I'd tactfully and politely let them know that I feel differently and wish them a good day. I'd make note of it in my log and nothing more.

 

Situation two: I'm on a hunt and I'm confronted by someone who claims to be the owner, I'd explain what I'm doing. If I'm asked to leave, I'd appologize and leave. If a land owner or manager ask that I remove the cache, I would. I would then log a SBA and make an effort to get the cache back to the owner. Then he could deal with putting it back or not.

 

(I could just leave the cache and the owner could then take it and toss it, but I'd probably err on preserving the cache.)

 

I dare say, at no time would I make rude comments in my log just because there might be a problem with the cache.

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