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Parks With User/entrance Fees? Why Cache There?


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I don't think it's that you question was lost on some folks. Every topic get analyzed to death from every angle in the forums and that's what occurred here.

 

That said, I don't really understand the perspective that you don't mind paying to get in for the day trip (presumably hiking, picnicing, etc...) or camping but do for caching. 4x4van made this great point:

 

"Nothing is free. You spent money to purchase a GPSr. You buy batteries for that GPSr. Maybe you also carry other equipment with you when you cache. You purchased SWAG for trading. You spend gas money to drive to the cache area. What about lunch? How about the monthly fee for your internet connection to access this website?"

 

I laughed when I first read the topic and thought about all the cash I spend hunting these boxes full of junk in the woods. Gas alone these days blows away the $2-$4 I might spend to get into a local park to cache not to mention all the other stuff 4x4 mentioned. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but between hunting and hiding, I end up spending a pretty decent amount of money on this hobby. My wife probably wishes I would play golf instead. :)

No, you and 4x4 made some good points regarding the general costs of just doing this activity. Nothing is indeed free. That said, I spoke too soon with my 'complaint' and I didnt really think about the various aspects of the way others would see it. The next time Im in a State Park, Ill be checking to see if there are caches there, but for the times that Im not in a SP, Ill be doing the ones on the outside :lol:

 

I suppose I was thinking of the overall family attractiveness to being able to do something without it costing money overtly to actually go and find a cache. I see geocaching as a family friendly activity and for some families, the cost of going to a park would be cost prohibitive, IMHO, to find that golfball or smilely sticker :blink:

 

And I readily acknowledge that there are caches practically everywhere so if cost is an issue, then the person or family should stick to the ones that are "free".

 

I want folks to understand that I have nothing at all against the parks here in Texas. I was just curious about the issue of placing caches in parks where people may want to find the cache, but may not want to have to pay to do this activity.

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Ok, my point is that I dont want to pay to cache in a park.  If Im going there for other reasons like a day trip, camping or whatever, thats entirely different. 

 

Of course I want the caches to exist in the park.  Others wish to seek them.

 

Its not bad to pay to get into a park.  I think my question was lost on some folks. :-)

Didn't you read my post? If you park in their parking lot you have to pay, it's not an entrance or use fee. So park just outside the lot and walk the extra 100 yards or so. No drama.

Yeah, I read your post, but that doesnt apply in Texas. We are charged whether we walk in, drive in, bike in, etc.

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If a cache is placed in a park where there is a fee, that fact needs to be placed in the description of the cache so a cacher would know they need to bring money. Several times we have gone caching and found the cache we wanted to find was in a park charging a fee. Seldom do we have that extra money on us. Therefore, we have wasted gas and time that could have been spent finding a free cache. So far, we have only paid to enter one park. There were 12 caches that I found in that park and I was taking a friend and her daughter caching. As for the rest of the parks that charge, maybe when I win the lottery or get a bit of extra cash from an unexpected sorce. I don't mind paying when I have the money but when I don't it's nice to know which caches I can afford to find.

 

Terri

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Sorry that you find thriftyness to be unattractive. To each his or her own, of course.

There's thriftiness (an attractive quality in anyone), and then there's the plain ole "look under the table! there's free gum there!" cheapness (do you really wanna date that?) Hey, grousing about the park fees when you can well afford it is borderline "mmm! looks like doublemint!" :blink:

Edited by prettynwitty
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<<SNIP>>  I was just curious about the issue of placing caches in parks where people may want to find the cache, but may not want to have to pay to do this activity.

What issue? I'm very confused about what it is you're trying to say. Could you be a bit more clear?

Apparently, some caches are placed in parks that charge entrance fees. Some people, like myself, may not want to spend the money to enter the park strictly to find those caches, but would probably seek them out if we were in the park for other reasons rather than to specifically cache.

 

I see this activity as being basically 'free' with the obvious exceptions of cost for equipment, gas etc. I was just curious as to why folks would put caches in places that charge admission fees and this includes considerations for those that are concerned about cache quality. In otherwords, some folks would probably find it bad form to pay to find a cache and then discover that the cache had a bunch of crappy stuff in it.

 

This whole issue is boiling down to individual preference and thats fine. :D

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Sorry that you find thriftyness to be unattractive. To each his or her own, of course.

There's thriftiness (an attractive quality in anyone), and then there's the plain ole "look under the table! there's free gum there!" cheapness (do you really wanna date that?) Hey, grousing about the park fees when you can well afford it is borderline "mmm! looks like doublemint!" :D

Since Im the one 'grousing' about park entrance fees, Ill try to explain my 'cheapness'...

 

I dont have a lot of spare money and I currently work two jobs to make the ends completely meet so that I have a bit of money left over for fun stuff. As a matter of fact, this second job is why I have a GPSr now after having wanted one for several years.

 

In the past, I have had very expensive hobbies and currently I am trying to find fun stuff to do that is pretty low cost. Geocaching, digital photography (no film, rechargeable batteries etc.) and metal detecting (cost is batteries) seem to fit the bill for me. I dont, however, believe I want to pay to cache unless Im going to the park for a day trip (which I do throughout the summer) which lets me kill two birds with one stone. Im not against putting caches in parks, but after reading the responses and thinking about it more, its not something I would do.

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(chop) Im not against putting caches in parks, but after reading the responses and thinking about it more, its not something I would do.

ok, so if you were to place a cache, where would you put it? (parking lot, public street, find a part in your area that doesn't have usage fee?)

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Depending on where you live, caches in paid-entry parks are often the safer option. Specially if living in a country where lawlessness is the norm.

I would rather cache in an area where I knew that the fees paid ensure that my safety (and those of the people with me) are paramount.

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In the past, I have had very expensive hobbies and currently I am trying to find fun stuff to do that is pretty low cost.  Geocaching, digital photography (no film, rechargeable batteries etc.) and metal detecting (cost is batteries) seem to fit the bill for me.  I dont, however, believe I want to pay to cache unless Im going to the park for a day trip (which I do throughout the summer) which lets me kill two birds with one stone.  Im not against putting caches in parks, but after reading the responses and thinking about it more, its not something I would do.

Sorry, but even with your "low-cost" hobbies, I just don't see the big deal in a $5 entrance fee to a park. That's only 2 gallons of gas. That's one meal at McDonalds. Now if you were talking about a $25-30 dollar fee to an amusement park to find/log a virtual or two, then I can see holding off on those till you were making a trip to the park anyway, but $5? Pack your lunch on that day instead of eating fastfood, and you've got it covered.

 

Don't get me wrong, I work two jobs myself, and I do what I have to to support a family, so I know about trying to save money where feasible. But a $5 fee to enter a park to find some geocaches? That can be countered in any of a hundred different ways.

 

Also, you say that you would rather wait till you're going to the park anyway, so you can kill 2 birds with one stone. Well, why not consider the geocaching the first bird and use that as an opportunity to spend some time enjoying the park as the second bird, instead of the other way around? What's the difference which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

All that said, however, I agree that any fees for parking/entrance, etc, should be noted in the cache description.

 

Remember, you can't take it with you (and since that's the case, I've decided I'm not going! :lol: )

Edited by 4x4van
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I usually save caches with entrance fees til I'm planning to go to the area anyway.

 

Most of the state or conservancy parks in my area that charge for entry only require that you pay when entering by car. You can enter on foot or on a bicycle for free if you leave your vehicle outside the park.

 

If you don't want to pay the money, be creative. Park an extra quarter-mile away. Or go with another geocacher and split the fee.

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I personally think that there has to be a few individuals that can't enjoy an park because they can't afford the park fee.

 

You think people can afford a car, gas, etc, but not $5?

 

Compare it to PBS..... I don't have to pay upfront to watch it... 

 

You do pay upfront. It is called taxes. People are forced to pay to support their broadcasting of leftist propaganda. This is unethical and illegal.

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A trick I have learned at some of the NY state parks is to arrive early or late.

I went several weekends to a very large state park, and I discovered that if you arrive around 7am or earlier there is no one at the booth to collect the usage fee, so you can go right in for free. Also the last time I was there I got to the gate at 4:30pm and they were closing up and waved me through.

 

Just my $.02

 

John

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A trick I have learned at some of the NY state parks is to arrive early or late. 

I went several weekends to a very large state park, and I discovered that if you arrive around 7am or earlier there is no one at the booth to collect the usage fee, so you can go right in for free.  Also the last time I was there I got to the gate at 4:30pm and they were closing up and waved me through.

 

Just my $.02

 

John

John, that wouldn't work in Texas. They give you a paper receipt that you have to put on your dashboard so it is visible through the windshield. The ranger's do make the rounds and check vehicles. Without the receipt, you are subject to being towed and fined. And the tow fee if it's from Garner, Pedernales Falls, or Enchanted Rock? Through the roof since the nearest town is, well, not exactly a couple of miles away. NO WAY would I NOT pay the fee!

 

To answer the OP...caches are put in the state parks because the cache owner wants you to see the beauty in these parks. Ever notice the difference between the state parks and the local city or county parks? A world of difference in my opinion. That's not to say the local parks aren't nice, but they just can't match what the state parks offer. Why does it cost money to get into the state parks? Because the state just won't pony up enough to run them without a fee. You mention you like going to Garner so you know what that park is like. Isn't it well worth the entry fee? Have you been to Pedernales Falls or Enchanted Rock? Last time I checked, both of those have geocaches. And, they offer great hiking trails and/or spectacular views. Again, well worth the entry fee.

 

My recommendation? Brown bag lunch for a couple of weeks. Every day, literally take the money out of your wallet that you would have used on lunch or dinner during your work shift and set it aside. In two weeks, you will have enough to buy the annual pass.

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You think people can afford a car, gas, etc, but not $5?

 

 

Gas, Car, Insurance etc....are considered to be part of a budget for most people.

Granted gas prices increase and decrease but its still part of a budget.

 

Going to a park that charges a fee is just a form of a user tax.

 

You do pay upfront.  It is called taxes.  People are forced to pay to support their broadcasting of leftist propaganda.  This is unethical and illegal.

 

I'm willing to bet that PBS only get about 10 percent of there funding from taxes.

I'm also willing to bet that parks get about 70% of there funding from taxes.

 

its untheical and illegal for poor management of funds if you ask me.

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Well, I suppose there's a lot of lame urban or roadside micros you could do then--if they aren't near any parking meters.

Ive done about 15-18 caches so far and not one of them has been 'lame' nor have I paid to do them.

 

Its really too bad that this topic has turned into a judgement on other cachers with regard to their willingness to pay to cache. :huh:

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Its really too bad that this topic has turned into a judgement on other cachers with regard to their willingness to pay to cache. :huh:

I think you're missing the point that most of us are trying to make. You started off by saying that we shouldn't hide caches in parks that require an entrance fee because some people don't want to pay to cache. It seems to me that you yourself are making a judgement on those of us that are willing to pay. We all pay to cache in a number of ways that I've already stated. You're simply drawing the line of "acceptable" payments in a different place. Many people (most, I'd gather) have no problem paying a relatively tiny amount to have access to some great parks, particularly compared to the other costs of geocaching (gas, food, equipment, etc).

 

There are many different types of caches, from urban micros on up. Everyone has their favorites. Personally, I don't care for puzzle caches, but I certainly wouldn't complain about them or tell others that they shouldn't hide them because I don't want to figure the puzzle out in order to find the cache. "Why can't they just give me the coordinates instead? I shouldn't have to use my brain." is not much different than "Why do they place caches in parks that charge fees. I shouldn't have to pay for parking/entrance.". In my opinion, neither statement has much legitimacy.

 

Search for caches that you want to/like, and leave the others for people who want/like them, rather than putting down the types that you yourself don't like (for whatever reason). Seems really simple to me.

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Interesting views. I checked the "rules". They say:

 

Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks.

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.).

 

I think that I would like to be informed that the cache is in an area that costs to park. We should be following the rules, both legal and ethical.

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I think you're missing the point that most of us are trying to make.  You started off by saying that we shouldn't hide caches in parks that require an entrance fee because some people don't want to pay to cache.

 

Actually, I never said anything of the sort. I asked why people do it because it seems, IN MY OPINION, to go against the grain of doing this activity as it is basically 'cost free'.

 

It seems to me that you yourself are making a judgement on those of us that are willing to pay.  We all pay to cache in a number of ways that I've already stated.

 

Im not judging anyone. I dont give a tinkers dadgum if you want to pay to cache or not. As I said earlier, sticking caches in parks where you have to pay an entrance fee is not something I would do ("I" being the operative there).

 

You're simply drawing the line of "acceptable" payments in a different place.  Many people (most, I'd gather) have no problem paying a relatively tiny amount to have access to some great parks, particularly compared to the other costs of geocaching (gas, food, equipment, etc).

 

Im seeing the parks issue as a separate activity from the caching. If Im out caching, Im out to cache, not hang out in the park. To ME, thats a separate activty to be enjoyed on its own merits. Again, this is solely MY OPINION.

 

There are many different types of caches, from urban micros on up.  Everyone has their favorites.  Personally, I don't care for puzzle caches, but I certainly wouldn't complain about them or tell others that they shouldn't hide them because I don't want to figure the puzzle out in order to find the cache.

 

Again, I havent told anyone what to do or what not to do. I asked a question regarding the rationale of placing caches in parks as I am new to this activity and wanted to understand the reasons behind it. My question has been answered 10 fold by now and it seems we are deteriorating into arguing semantics.

 

"Why can't they just give me the coordinates instead?  I shouldn't have to use my brain." is not much different than "Why do they place caches in parks that charge fees.  I shouldn't have to pay for parking/entrance.".  In my opinion, neither statement has much legitimacy.

 

Well, considering that they are hardly related, I agree.

 

Search for caches that you want to/like, and leave the others for people who want/like them, rather than putting down the types that you yourself don't like (for whatever reason).  Seems really simple to me.

 

Ive already come to that conclusion, thanks.

Edited by Midnight Rider
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Interesting views. I checked the "rules". They say:

 

Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks.

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.).

 

I think that I would like to be informed that the cache is in an area that costs to park. We should be following the rules, both legal and ethical.

Ive yet to come across a cache description that did not include the information that it would cost something to enter the park, park your car etc.

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We live close to Kakadu National Park. We drove 667 km one day for the sole purpose of chasing a cache. We had no idea where it was but there are only 2 ways in and both are the same distance from where we live. The park charges are $16.50 per adult in the vehicle, NOT per vehicle, which is a hefty charge.

And then we had to climb up to the cache and we scored a DNF.

 

But I'm not going to whinge about park fees and petrol costs because I don't think they were wasted at all. They have really good amenities at the park, they employ a lot of locals and upkeep of the Park takes work. There is also preservation of rock paintings and sacred sites to pay for.

We got to see a lovely part of the Aussie countryside, swam in a very pretty waterhole, learned a bit about the area that we had forgotten AND got to use the GPS.

 

Isn't one of the purposes of geocaching to get out there and see something worthwhile with the cache being a bonus?

If you are only going to dash in and dash out I think you have your priorities completely wrong.

 

Donna

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wouldnt it be better if the caches were out in the public where you dont have to worry about stuff like user fees?
Sounds to me like you are saying caches shouldn't be hidden in those areas.

 

I asked why people do it because it seems, IN MY OPINION, to go against the grain of doing this activity as it is basically 'cost free'.
And as I said, IN MY OPINION, nothing is basically "cost free". It's just that your definition of "cost free" and mine are different.

 

caches in parks where you have to pay an entrance fee is not something I would do ("I" being the operative there).
Fine, then don't. But you'll also rule out alot of nice caching areas. Which is fine if that's what you want. Hide caches in other areas. As long as they are good, well thought out caches, most couldn't care less where they are.

 

Im seeing the parks issue as a separate activity from the caching. If Im out caching, Im out to cache, not hang out in the park. To ME, thats a separate activty to be enjoyed on its own merits.

Okay, and some of us don't separate the two. To us, geocaching is a reason to enjoy the park/trail/view that might not otherwise be visited. It's the journey,not the destination, that makes geocaching special to us. The "destination" (geocache) simply prods us to get up and actually make that journey.

 

 

"Why can't they just give me the coordinates instead?  I shouldn't have to use my brain." is not much different than "Why do they place caches in parks that charge fees.  I shouldn't have to pay for parking/entrance.".  In my opinion, neither statement has much legitimacy.

 

Well, considering that they are hardly related, I agree.

On the contrary. Both are personal opinions of what a person is unwilling to "do" in order to find a cache, and neither is legitimate IMO.

 

Actually, on second thought, both are legitimate, if that is what a person feels. We all play this game the way we want to play it. For some, it's all about the numbers. For some, it's about getting up off the couch and spending time with loved ones in a beautiful area. For some...

 

You asked how people feel about caches located where entrance fees are required. Obviously, many have no problem with that. You do. Does that make you a "lesser" cacher? Certainly not. It's simply how you choose to play the game. I'm not trying to argue with you or make you angry. We all play it the way we are comfortable playing it, so that we get out of it what we want/feel is important to us. For most, that means looking through the cache pages and picking out only those caches that will give us what we are personally looking for, be it cache-n-dash micros, long hikes in the wilderness, virtuals, puzzles, offsets, and yes, even low or no-cost caches. There are plenty of every type to make everybody happy, as long as we don't dwell on the ones that make us unhappy. :huh:

Edited by 4x4van
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