Dnf's: Do You Admit To Them By Posting Them?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Can't find what isn't there!

 

Which makes it a DNF.

I DO log it as a DNF, until the cache owner posts that it's missing. If the cache is there, a cacher can find it. If it's not, they can't. Sure formula for not finding. If I knew it wasn't there, then I wouldn't even attempt it. DUH.

 

Any true DNFs remain DNFs for me, even if I find them at a later date. I'm not ashamed of not being able to find a cache. I have quite a few DNFs and they don't bother me a bit. Some of my favorite cache hunts were DNFs.

But if the cache isn't there, you still didn't find it

BUT YOU CAN'T FIND WHAT ISN'T THERE!! You're defeated before you even begin!

 

Let's just agree to disagree on this technicality, okay?

It doesn't matter if you're "defeated before you begin" if you didn't find the cache, it's a DNF. Anyone can read the logs to see WHY you didn't find it.

[Pipanella]

BUT YOU CAN'T FIND WHAT ISN'T THERE!!

Exactly. DNF.

 

Jamie

Sorry.........that just seems silly. It's my opinion, and you don't have to agree.

I'm not very concerned with how it seems, just the facts.

 

It's obvious you can't find what isn't there, so it is logical to log a "dnf".

 

It wasn't there, so you didn't find it.

 

However, logging a find on what's not there is lying.

 

sd

I don't log it as a find. I didn't lie.

[Pipanella]

Oh brother. I can't believe this argument is still going on. We just see it differently. A DNF in my opinion, is that you looked for a cache and didn't find it. If the cache doesn't exist, then you aren't looking for a cache in reality. Think I'm cheating if you want, but if I look for a cache THAT EXISTS, and I don't find it, I log a DNF. If there isn't a cache and I'm on a wild goose chase, as I find out later, then it's not a DNF. Sorry if you disagree. Live with it. Have me banned from gc.com. Try as hard as I can, I can't see your side of it. I'm really sorry!

[+rusty_tlc]

I have a very cavalier attitude to the whole thing. Sometimes I post a note other times a DNF others I don't even log, just depends on how the mood strikes me.

 

It's just a game!!!!!

 

Save protocoll arguments and rules of engagement for the real battles. Like dealing with your HMO.

[Pipanella]

[+southdeltan]

Oh brother. I can't believe this argument is still going on. We just see it differently. A DNF in my opinion, is that you looked for a cache and didn't find it. If the cache doesn't exist, then you aren't looking for a cache in reality. Think I'm cheating if you want, but if I look for a cache THAT EXISTS, and I don't find it, I log a DNF. If there isn't a cache and I'm on a wild goose chase, as I find out later, then it's not a DNF. Sorry if you disagree. Live with it. Have me banned from gc.com. Try as hard as I can, I can't see your side of it. I'm really sorry!

But the cache could exist, even if the container is no longer where it is supposed to be. It's not where it was supposed to be, so you couldn't find it. (I could probably argue that it still exists if it's been destroyed - law of conservation of matter and whatnot... but that'd be overkill).

 

Nobody said you were cheating, we're just pointing out faulty logic.

 

If you look for something and don't find it - you log a DNF. Why you didn't find it is meaningless. DNF logs mean just that: "Did not find". They tell what you did, not WHY you did it.

 

I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that.

 

Incidentally - I never claimed you had logged a find on a missing cache. That was a joke (I should have included an emoticon).

 

sd

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Oh brother. I can't believe this argument is still going on. We just see it differently. A DNF in my opinion, is that you looked for a cache and didn't find it. If the cache doesn't exist, then you aren't looking for a cache in reality. Think I'm cheating if you want, but if I look for a cache THAT EXISTS, and I don't find it, I log a DNF. If there isn't a cache and I'm on a wild goose chase, as I find out later, then it's not a DNF. Sorry if you disagree. Live with it. Have me banned from gc.com. Try as hard as I can, I can't see your side of it. I'm really sorry!

If the cache doesn't exist, why are you looking for it?

 

If you look for it anyway, you won't be able to find it.

 

Why not log that you didn't find it then?

[Pipanella]

If the cache doesn't exist, why are you looking for it?

 

If you look for it anyway, you won't be able to find it.

 

Why not log that you didn't find it then?

Because I didn't KNOW that it didn't exist, which is why I log it as a DNF, UNTIL I find out that it didn't exist.

[MMACH 5]

Okay, I usually don't even venture into the "Do you log DNFs?" threads. I stayed away from this one as long as I could, but it kept jumping back to the top, so here goes:

 

Several observations:

 

a. These types of threads are NOT about finding out who logs what or when. They serve only to give some high-and-mighties the opportunity to berate and belittle others about how they use this web site.

 

b. I don't see any threads insulting people, (and they are out there), who don't log their finds. If I'm wrong on this, we'll know shortly...

 

c. I see over and over cachers posting the statement, "Play the game how you want". If this is truly how you feel, then shut up about it and go play.

 

d. Another GC cliche is "It's not about the numbers." Then why are you so concerned about somebody else's numbers?

 

That's my two cents.

 

Oh, and just to answer the OPs question: Yes, I do log my DNFs.

[Pipanella]

Okay, I usually don't even venture into the "Do you log DNFs?" threads. I stayed away from this one as long as I could, but it kept jumping back to the top, so here goes:

 

Several observations:

 

a. These types of threads are NOT about finding out who logs what or when. They serve only to give some high-and-mighties the opportunity to berate and belittle others about how they use this web site.

 

b. I don't see any threads insulting people, (and they are out there), who don't log their finds. If I'm wrong on this, we'll know shortly...

 

c. I see over and over cachers posting the statement, "Play the game how you want". If this is truly how you feel, then shut up about it and go play.

 

d. Another GC cliche is "It's not about the numbers." Then why are you so concerned about somebody else's numbers?

 

That's my two cents.

 

Oh, and just to answer the OPs question: Yes, I do log my DNFs.

Excellent points, MMACH 5.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

If the cache doesn't exist, why are you looking for it?

 

If you look for it anyway, you won't be able to find it.

 

Why not log that you didn't find it then?

Because I didn't KNOW that it didn't exist, which is why I log it as a DNF, UNTIL I find out that it didn't exist.

How does its lack of existence change the fact that you didn't find it?

[+CWalker]

Yea, verily. I reported a dnf today.

 

Where you at?!

 

I hang my head in shame, but yes, oh yes, I shall return tomorrow. I will remove this badge of dishonor from my chest...

[+southdeltan]

Okay, I usually don't even venture into the "Do you log DNFs?" threads. I stayed away from this one as long as I could, but it kept jumping back to the top, so here goes:

 

Several observations:

 

a. These types of threads are NOT about finding out who logs what or when. They serve only to give some high-and-mighties the opportunity to berate and belittle others about how they use this web site.

 

b. I don't see any threads insulting people, (and they are out there), who don't log their finds. If I'm wrong on this, we'll know shortly...

 

c. I see over and over cachers posting the statement, "Play the game how you want". If this is truly how you feel, then shut up about it and go play.

 

d. Another GC cliche is "It's not about the numbers." Then why are you so concerned about somebody else's numbers?

 

That's my two cents.

 

Oh, and just to answer the OPs question: Yes, I do log my DNFs.

A. It seems that the OP was sincere in his request. Nobody set out to belittle anybody. I personally have tried to point out the benifits of logging DNF's (it alerts the owner and future hunters of potential problems, adds to the cache history, and lets the owner know people are interested in his cache) and the faulty logic of changing a DNF to a note because the cache wasn't there (why does that matter?? you didn't find it, period).

 

B. Yes, they do exist. I'm sure a quick search will bring up plenty. There are legitimate reasons for not logging online, but not everybody has a good reason. Those people do annoy me. I look at the online log as a backup of the logbook. Caches go missing or get damaged. There are other reasons this annoys me, but that's one that's rarely mentioned.

 

C. Actually, I personally don't believe that, but the "feel good" crowd is fairly vocal so it comes off that EVERYBODY beleives that. Nice use of the quote, I love to bring that up when people tell me to do it their way

 

D. I think it's very much about the numbers. I'm sure I'm not alone. Every cache found is a number wether you count it or not. (Personally I wouldn't be hiking or driving all over the state if not for geocaching - it's not just about running up numbers on easy caches - geocaching really is hiking with a purpose). Of course - it's not that anybody cares about the person's numbers. If you look for a cache and can't find it, it's common courtesy to notify the hider and other hunters. If you didn't find it, it just doesn't make sense to change it to a note.

 

Can you search for DNF's? I'm not sure if you can. If you can, I don't know how to do that. The totals aren't showed when a user logs (it shows total finds) or in their profiles. The only place you see them is on a cache page so there's no good way that I know of to search for them. I don't think the arguements here are about making people log DNF's so they can be laughed at or something.

 

Incidentally - if it's NOT about the numbers, why change a DNF to a note??

 

If you looked and can't find it, it's courteous to log a DNF. If you didn't find it and find out it's missing - that doesn't change the fact you didn't find it so it makes changing the log type pointless.

 

I'm sorry if this comes off as berating somebody. I really don't care what you do with your logs, just please let the owner know if you (really) looked for it and couldn't find it. Preferebly in some sort of online log so other hunters can make some sort of decision based on the logs. It's silly to change the log type, but whatever...

 

southdeltan

[Pipanella]

I like to be silly.

[+southdeltan]

I like to be silly.

Being silly won't change that DNF

 

 

sd

[Pipanella]

I like to be silly. 

Being silly won't change that DNF

 

 

sd

[Pipanella]

This is my last post in this 'silly' discussion...

 

As a cacher seeking to find a cache, I like my DNFs to indicate to ME that my caching abilities were poor to non-existent for finding the cache.

 

As a fellow cache owner, a DNF indicates either the above, or that there is a problem with the cache. I would have no problem whatsoever with a cacher changing his DNF for a missing cache to a note. His original DNF alerts me to the fact that there may be a problem, but it sure doesn't indicate his ability to find the cache.

 

My changing a DNF for a missing cache is for MY benefit, no one else's and is NOT about the numbers. I couldn't even tell you how many caches I have found or how many DNFs I have. As I said before, I want my DNFs to truly indicate that there was an existing cache that I wasn't able to find.

 

I honestly don't care if some of you don't see the logic in that. I do.

[+amytincan]

Today I had 2 finds, 2 DNF and 2 notes. On the way to somewhere I turned on the GPS. There was 1 in a nearby park on the way to where I was was going. I pulled off, The road accessing the park was closed. Sign said, "closed for repair", and "Lot Full" (not likely) but I couldn't go in. So I posted a note. Then noticing another cache nearby I posted a note on it as well, though I wasn't going to find it. I didn't have to post a note either.

 

 

I don't think those were DNF. And it was just a courtesy to other cachers. The other two I actually tried to look for and didn't find. DNF.

[+southdeltan]

This is my last post in this 'silly' discussion...

 

As a cacher seeking to find a cache, I like my DNFs to indicate to ME that my caching abilities were poor to non-existent for finding the cache.

 

As a fellow cache owner, a DNF indicates either the above, or that there is a problem with the cache. I would have no problem whatsoever with a cacher changing his DNF for a missing cache to a note. His original DNF alerts me to the fact that there may be a problem, but it sure doesn't indicate his ability to find the cache.

 

My changing a DNF for a missing cache is for MY benefit, no one else's and is NOT about the numbers. I couldn't even tell you how many caches I have found or how many DNFs I have. As I said before, I want my DNFs to truly indicate that there was an existing cache that I wasn't able to find.

 

I honestly don't care if some of you don't see the logic in that. I do.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time you explained WHY you did it. That reasoning does make some sense.

 

If you were a better cache hunter you would have found that cache tho

 

sd

[Pipanella]

I knew you'd eventually see it my way.

 

Oops! I said I wasn't going to post in here anymore.......

[+Ladybug Kids]

[i personally have tried to point out the benifits of logging DNF's (it alerts the owner and future hunters of potential problems, adds to the cache history, and lets the owner know people are interested in his cache)

Two cents' worth from a relative newbie (71 finds, 2 DNFs):

 

The DNF can be very important for another reason. Weather and road conditions can be highly variable over the course of just 20 miles this time of year and seeing a DNF for a cache in the hills because the road had been snowed in kept me from loading my family into the truck to go look for one up here in Fairbanks, AK, three weeks ago. We don't have regular road reports available for all the unmaintained roads up here, so the cache log served as our grapevine.

 

One the other hand, while on vacation in New York last month, I used a series of DNFs for a microcache in the woods as a challenge to find what hadn't been found recently. We went into the cache with a agreement that if we didn't find it after a reasonable amount of time due to previous DNFs, we'd bail on it as well. It turned out that we found in just five minutes to log the first find in over four months. Our logged find was followed up by several other finds in quick succession, so it appears a find after several DNFs triggered additional interest in the cache.

 

We've just started placing caches and we certainly would like to see all activity associated with folks looking for them. More activity logged (whether the cache was found or not), especially as we continue the long slide into the cold dark winter of Interior Alaska will keep me motivated to keep placing caches.

 

Finally, I had an experience with an FTF where it was obvious another team had been all over the area (footprints in 3" of new snow) of the posted coordinates ahead of me, but there was no posted log. After an hour of gradually becoming the human snowball and progressively getting later for work, I walked back to the car, reread the hint, and spotted the likely cache location more than 100 yards from the posted coordinates. I successfully logged the FTF and sent the cache owner a set of coordinates from my GPSr that were subsequently posted on the cache page. Given that the cache was an ammo box, a DNF on an FTF attempt might have alerted the cache owner there was a problem with the coordinates. I know if I had seen a DNF, I would have approached the search differently.

[+Tharagleb]

I post DNF's if I search for the cache and don't find it. However, if I am not done searching and I leave just because I have run out of time, I usually post a note. The distinction is whether or not I believe the cache is there and I just didn't find it or if I looked everywhere possible, and long enough, and still couldn't find it. I don't want to post DNF's where there is a good chance the cache is there, because this will deter other people from searching for the cache. Put it this way, if the last three people post DNF's for a cache, are you likely to pass it up?

 

I am better about posting finds than DNF's, however.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I will admit that I do not log all my DNFs.

I feel silly that someone like avroair goes out to double check a cache that I'm too stupid to find. So, I usually only log a DNF after a coule of tries, or if I think the owner has disappeared. Or if I'm sure that the cache is missing. even then, I can be mistaken.

It's not that I'm making myself look stupid. That I can deal with. It's more putting someone out because of my failure to find a cache.

[+Kit Fox]

Just today, I logged three DNFs, on three consecutive 1 1/2 star caches, in the same park. Sometimes you get beat up. The worst part is that one of the caches was checked by the owner yesterday.

Edited November 11, 2004 by Kit Fox

[+beejay&esskay]

However, if I am not done searching and I leave just because I have run out of time, I usually post a note.

 

Put it this way, if the last three people post DNF's for a cache, are you likely to pass it up?

 

No, I wouldn't skip a 3-DNF cache if I read that the reason was "I only looked for 5 minutes and had to leave because my lunch was getting cold".

 

I read too many logs of "I've been looking for this one for 3 months and finally found it"...and there never were any DNF's posted. (Or any notes...notes are better than nothing...but the only time I use notes is to drop off TBs at previous finds.)

[avroair]

43 DNF's - (3 were on one cache, I was totally unprepared for). I always log a DNF, if I find it, I log a find. If I don't I log a DNF.

 

I log notes for things not related to finds such as: forgeting to log a travel bug, my second visit to a cache etc.

[MMACH 5]

Dang it! I was going to post once and run, but I've been drawn back in.

 

First let me say to southdeltan, thank you for your thoughtful response. Some points I agree with, some I don't, but you took the time to explain your POV and I appreciate that.

 

Second, I have a question of Pipanella:

With regard to the DNFs that you have changed to notes or finds; have any of these cache owners ever deleted, encrypted or asked you to alter your posts?

[Pipanella]

No. I think I've only done that maybe twice? Maybe even only once. Let me find one to show you...

 

EDIT: Okay, I've only done it once. Here is the only DNF I've ever changed the status to Note, after the owner confirmed that it was missing:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c3-c229ddcb57a1

 

I also checked to see how many DNFs I have - 13

Finds - 128

Edited November 11, 2004 by Pipanella

[+PC Painter]

Here's another question....do you make at least 2 attempts before you report DNF, so that you don't have the poor owner checking on it all the time, from people that can't find one that's just hard to locate?

[Pipanella]

Here's another question....do you make at least 2 attempts before you report DNF, so that you don't have the poor owner checking on it all the time, from people that can't find one that's just hard to locate?

I log a DNF the first time I can't find it. I have yet to take more than two tries on the same cache before finding it.

Edited November 11, 2004 by Pipanella

[MMACH 5]

Then in the spirit of "Accepted posts are between the cache owner and the finder", there is no controversy in this practice.

If the owner has a problem with someone changing their post type from a DNF to a find or note, they have every right to let the finder know or delete the post.

 

(I think I really am done here. I guess we'll see...)

[+Ambrosia]

How many do and how many just don't post anything?

 

I don't always post DNF's.

Edited November 11, 2004 by Ambrosia

[+PeterNoG]

We usually post a note if we can't get near the coordinates for some reason; construction, animals, etc.

If we search and do not find, then we post a DNF.

 

Our 'worst" DNF was This one. 209 crow kilometers from home. The cache was archived after we were on the road.

[+Night Stalker]

I admit that I don't always log my DNF's. It isn't intentional its just that sometimes I forget to write down the waypoints I don't find. Sometimes I log multiple DNF's on a cache. I don't know how many DNF's I logged on a recent cache, but I must have gone back and searched at least 5 times before I finally found the blasted thing. I logged my DNF each time. I knew it was there and I am sure the cache owner took great pleasure in my pain.

 

I am a stubborn person. Those DNF's make me mad. I keep going back and looking until the cache is either disabled or I find it. For me it's just part of the game.

 

[+briansnat]

Here's another question....do you make at least 2 attempts before you report DNF, so that you don't have the poor owner checking on it all the time, from people that can't find one that's just hard to locate?

Most owners are not going out to check on a cache after one DNF, so not wanting to inconvenience the owner is no excuse not to post a DNF. The owner WANTS to know if someone was looking for it and couldn't find it. If the cache was meant to be hard, they know they did their job well. If it was meant to be easy, they will learn that maybe it wasn't as easy as they originally thought, but above all they want to know that people are out there looking for their cache.

Edited November 14, 2004 by briansnat

[+greende]

Here's another question....do you make at least 2 attempts before you report DNF, so that you don't have the poor owner checking on it all the time, from people that can't find one that's just hard to locate?

Most owners are not going out to check on a cache after one DNF, so not wanting to inconvenience the owner is no excuse not to post a DNF. The owner WANTS to know if someone was looking for it and couldn't find it. If the cache was meant to be hard, they know they did their job well. If it was meant to be easy, they will learn that maybe it wasn't as easy as they originally thought, but above all they want to know that people are out there looking for their cache.

I post DNFs the first time. Yesterday, I tried to find one that I seemed to remember had a possible muggle problem from the logs. It had been awhile since I read them, though. I gave it a VERY good try and was sure I was at the spot. When I went home, I saw that the two previous cachers could not find it. I had already intended to DNF it but in this case you are pretty much obligated to do so. If the other two had not posted their DNFs I would have been stuck wondering if is was my problem. I really do thing it's gone.

 

I see peoples points about not wanting to post a DNF if they have only given it a half a**ed try but I think now I will always post if I have tried at all. Makes for interesting history of the cache.

 

Happy caching

[+TotemLake]

Here is the perfect reason why a DNF should be posted. This cache was MIA.

[rescue557]

How many do and how many just don't post anything?

 

Brodiebunch

I always post a DNF if I checked the entire area for more than a reasonable amount of time and came up empty. If you view my profile, you will see a list of caches that I was unable to find after multiple tries and just simply gave up.

[rescue557]

How many do and how many just don't post anything?

 

Brodiebunch

I always post a DNF if I checked the entire area for more than a reasonable amount of time and came up empty. If you view my profile, you will see a list of caches that I was unable to find after multiple tries and just simply gave up.

[rescue557]

How many do and how many just don't post anything?

 

Brodiebunch

I always post a DNF if I checked the entire area for more than a reasonable amount of time and came up empty. If you view my profile, you will see a list of caches that I was unable to find after multiple tries and just simply gave up.

 

Also, if enough DNF's are logged, it raises a little bit of suspicion on the part of admin and they will look into it. There is really nothing worse than hiking through the woods only to find a missing cache or one that simply cannot be found.

[MMACH 5]

Here is the perfect reason why a DNF should be posted. This cache was MIA.

It doesn't appear, to me that posting a DNF did ANY good on this cache.

 

Nearly three months from the first DNF to the cache owner disabling it, (he still hasn't gone to the site; he's basing the MIA on one other set of hunters not finding it). I have no problem with this, per se. It's just an observation.

 

It didn't stop three other cachers from going after it.

 

There's no way to know for sure, but it would appear that the cache would have been treated the same even if the first hunter had never posted a DNF.

 

So other than the "cache history" argument, the posted DNF served what purpose?

[+briansnat]

Here is the perfect reason why a DNF should be posted. This cache was MIA.

It doesn't appear, to me that posting a DNF did ANY good on this cache.

 

Nearly three months from the first DNF to the cache owner disabling it, (he still hasn't gone to the site; he's basing the MIA on one other set of hunters not finding it). I have no problem with this, per se. It's just an observation.

 

It didn't stop three other cachers from going after it.

 

There's no way to know for sure, but it would appear that the cache would have been treated the same even if the first hunter had never posted a DNF.

 

So other than the "cache history" argument, the posted DNF served what purpose?

This cache is a perfect example. Of course first DNF didn't stop 3 other geocachers for going after it, but their 3 DNFs will probably stop others from trying it and lead the owner to disable it. One DNF usually won't cause a owner to disable a cache, or discourage others from going after it. But several in a row will. If people aren't logging their DNF's it could take longer for a pattern of DNF's to be established. For instance, if those last 3 (who happened to be hunting together) didn't post their DNF's the cache would probably still be active today.

 

Also, we don't know if anybody attempted it between the first DNF and last ones. For all we know 2-3 people could have searched for it and not logged a DNF. Had they done so and posted a DNF, the owner might have disabled it a long time ago and prevented the last 3 from wasting their time looking for this.

Edited November 14, 2004 by briansnat

[+TotemLake]

Here is the perfect reason why a DNF should be posted. This cache was MIA.

It doesn't appear, to me that posting a DNF did ANY good on this cache.

 

Nearly three months from the first DNF to the cache owner disabling it, (he still hasn't gone to the site; he's basing the MIA on one other set of hunters not finding it). I have no problem with this, per se. It's just an observation.

 

It didn't stop three other cachers from going after it.

 

There's no way to know for sure, but it would appear that the cache would have been treated the same even if the first hunter had never posted a DNF.

 

So other than the "cache history" argument, the posted DNF served what purpose?

I see Brainsnat has answered your question as I was writing this up, but I'll add my comments to reinforce what he said.

 

You miss the point of the DNF history. One DNF doesn't indicate it's missing AND the seeker may not be considered experienced enough to have found it. One DNF doesn't mean much. Subsequent DNFs (history) down the road indicates a problem. I would have to wonder how many people came and went looking for this cache and didn't post a DNF? The cache could certainly have been replaced much sooner if there were others that DID look and Did Not Find it and did not report it.

 

Further, we have since had communications with the cache owner confirming the location where the cache was supposed to have been. We came, we saw, we reported, we continued confirmation of it by describing the exact location we suspected off line.

 

A single DNF isn't going to stop me from going after a cache. Even multiple DNF's might not stop me. I've gone after a few that had them, right up until I found it... or not. For me, it is the destination; where you were taking me in the first place.

 

As a responsible seeker looking for the cache, you have a responsibility to advise the hider there just might be a problem with the cache and you do that by posting your DNF. To say my one DNF isn't going to make that big of a difference is a misunderstanding of building that DNF history to begin with. If you're feeling embarrassed about posting a DNF, you should subsequently feel even more embarrassed about breaking a system that has been proven it works when you do not post a DNF.

 

As a beginner seeker, I can understand your reluctance. My advise is to get over it. There's no shame in not finding a cache. Just entertainment value.

 

=-=-Edited for clarity.-=-=

Edited November 14, 2004 by TotemLake

[MMACH 5]

As a beginner seeker, I can understand your reluctance. My advise is to get over it. There's no shame in not finding a cache. Just entertainment value. 

1) I don't consider myself a beginner seeker.

 

2) As I stated earlier in this thread, I DO post my DNFs.

 

3) I still don't see that this cache would have been handled any differently had the first person who posted a DNF not posted it. The cache owner wasn't going to disable it on one DNF. Fine. Three cachers went after it and posted three DNFs, which made a total of four DNFs when there were only two attempts made at it. Now it's disabled until he can get out there to replace it. You're correct that we don't know if there were attempts other than this made at it. All we really know is that SOMEONE found it, didn't log it and didn't return it to its hiding spot.

 

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no problem with hunters posting DNFs and, as stated, I post them myself. But part of the attraction of geocaching, for me is that it is somewhat casual. Rigid rules don't play nice with me.

 

I don't disagree with the fact that DNFs are a useful tool in maintaining our caches. I enjoy reading them as much as anyone. I do see there value, but I'm not about to tell someone that they HAVE to or even SHOULD post them. If that's how you use this listing site, then so be it.

 

I have gone back and read some of the threads about not posting finds. There was not nearly the angst there is for people not posting DNFs. Seems like a double standard is at play here.

 

You will never get everyone to log every DNF. So perhaps you should take your own advice and "get over it."

[+Periwinkle Jam]

As a relatively inexperienced geocacher, I have not logged any DNF's. I know some folks use DNF's as an indicator of a problem and I wouldn't want my lack of ability to find the darn thing to be the thing that scares off the next searcher. I do immediately put any DNF caches on my watch list. If I think there may be a problem or if I am really stuck, I may email the cache owner. Logging the fact that I gave up because I was short on time, it got dark, etc. benefits no one.

[+LthrWrk]

Yes I post DNFs. I think that is part of the 'game'. Also it maybe possible that the cache was moved 'outside' the coordinates or that it has been muggled. Something the cache owner might want to know.

 

Course I go just a little nuts and do not like to DNF. I usually choose not to read logs before looking. Generally when I do go out.. I go looking for 3-5 a day. Still learning.. and got a DNF yesterday. Will go back and check at the coordinates someone else suggested for that cache and had left in their log of it.

[+TotemLake]

As a beginner seeker, I can understand your reluctance. My advise is to get over it. There's no shame in not finding a cache. Just entertainment value. 

1) I don't consider myself a beginner seeker.

 

2) As I stated earlier in this thread, I DO post my DNFs.

 

3) I still don't see that this cache would have been handled any differently had the first person who posted a DNF not posted it. The cache owner wasn't going to disable it on one DNF. Fine. Three cachers went after it and posted three DNFs, which made a total of four DNFs when there were only two attempts made at it. Now it's disabled until he can get out there to replace it. You're correct that we don't know if there were attempts other than this made at it. All we really know is that SOMEONE found it, didn't log it and didn't return it to its hiding spot.

 

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no problem with hunters posting DNFs and, as stated, I post them myself. But part of the attraction of geocaching, for me is that it is somewhat casual. Rigid rules don't play nice with me.

 

I don't disagree with the fact that DNFs are a useful tool in maintaining our caches. I enjoy reading them as much as anyone. I do see there value, but I'm not about to tell someone that they HAVE to or even SHOULD post them. If that's how you use this listing site, then so be it.

 

I have gone back and read some of the threads about not posting finds. There was not nearly the angst there is for people not posting DNFs. Seems like a double standard is at play here.

 

You will never get everyone to log every DNF. So perhaps you should take your own advice and "get over it."

What angst? You missed this:

A single DNF isn't going to stop me from going after a cache. Even multiple DNF's might not stop me. I've gone after a few that had them, right up until I found it... or not. For me, it is the destination; where you were taking me in the first place.

 

I merely advised where the responsibility is and clarified the need based on your inquiry over something you didn't seem to understand.

 

I also said when I advised to "get over it"

There's no shame in not finding a cache. Just entertainment value. 

 

...again no angst. I don't care if everybody or anybody logs a DNF or not. I THOUGHT I made that clear with the "it's about the destination" comment. Again, it's the destination for me, not the actual find. I'm fairly consistent throughout all of my posts with that statement.

 

...and ok... so I said "you as a beginner", let's make that a generic finger pointing at the generic beginner looking for the same answers.

 

By the way, look at the quote you're stumping on... There is a smiley wink there.

 

So that being said, let's go back to your Number 3. What if I was the first person that logged the DNF? So? It still takes mutiple DNF's to indicate there is a problem. Let's say you knew I went out there, but didn't log anything, and then you followed behind me and didn't find it either. Would you have wondered? I would. But now, you log the first DNF, and it will take 2 or 3 more people to do the same thing to indicate there is a problem. If I had logged the DNF, then the indication started that much earlier. How far back could this missing cache have been handled had everybody logged the DNF? That's anybody's guess. I'll guarantee you it starts with the first one.

[+briansnat]

s a relatively inexperienced geocacher, I have not logged any DNF's. I know some folks use DNF's as an indicator of a problem and I wouldn't want my lack of ability to find the darn thing to be the thing that scares off the next searcher

 

As an experienced geocacher, I wish you would log your DNFs. If you didn't find it, A the cache isn't there. B It is there and the owner didn't rate it properly or C As a novice, you took on a cache that was beyond your ability.

 

But above all, a cache owner wants to know whats going on with his cache. The least someone who looks for it can do is to give the owner feedback. Its called courtesy.

Edited November 15, 2004 by briansnat

[+AMMOMAN]

Ammoman did not find this thread

 

I looked all over but no luck on this one. I guess the hider has outsmarted me!

[+TrailGators]

s a relatively inexperienced geocacher, I have not logged any DNF's. I know some folks use DNF's as an indicator of a problem and I wouldn't want my lack of ability to find the darn thing to be the thing that scares off the next searcher

 

As an experienced geocacher, I wish you would log your DNFs. If you didn't find it, A the cache isn't there. B It is there and the owner didn't rate it properly or C As a novice, you took on a cache that was beyond your ability.

 

But above all, a cache owner wants to know whats going on with his cache. The least someone who looks for it can do is to give the owner feedback. Its called courtesy.

I agree. Plus it spares other cachers the same agony by letting them know. If I see a cache with 2 or more DNF's (and the cachers are fairly experienced) I will avoid that cache until the owner checks it out.