+JabbaTHutt Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Delta rocket puts on late-night show with GPS launch BY JUSTIN RAY SPACEFLIGHT NOW Posted: November 6, 2004 After a nerve-racking stay on its Cape Canaveral launch pad with uncomfortably close encounters by two powerful hurricanes, a Boeing Delta 2 rocket finally thundered into space today where it successfully deployed a Global Positioning System satellite to aid U.S. military forces around the world. The Delta 2 rocket ignites on pad 17B. Photo: Carleton Bailie/Boeing The 126-foot tall blue and white rocket departed pad 17B at 12:39 a.m. EST (0539 GMT), briefly turning the Florida nighttime into day with a blinding light. Twenty-five minutes later, the Lockheed Martin-built GPS 2R-13 spacecraft was released from the rocket's third stage, marking the 61st consecutive successful Delta 2 mission in nearly eight years. "Deploying this GPS satellite will improve the constellation, and consequently our war fighting capability, as we continue to combat global terrorism," said Lt. Col. L.C. Coffey, the Air Force launch director. "America relies heavily on space and missile forces for its national defense. Military leaders can destroy a target with one GPS-guided bomb that took an average of 648 bombs to destroy in World War II," added Col. Mark Owen, 45th Space Wing commander at Cape Canaveral and Patrick Air Force Base. "This satellite will join a constellation that is playing a stellar role in ensuring U.S. war fighters have the tools needed to continue to fight and win today and in the years ahead." But getting this replacement GPS satellite in Earth orbit wasn't easy thanks to Mother Nature and technical snags along the way. The mission was supposed to fly six weeks ago, but Hurricanes Frances and Jeanne halted pre-launch activities as workers evacuated the Cape and then required significant inspections and testing after the storms to ensure the rocket was unharmed. The Delta vehicle operated as advertised this morning, providing the ultimate proof that flying debris swirling around launch pad during the hurricanes caused no damage to the exposed rocket. "I'm extremely proud of this team's sharp focus on mission success even while dealing with the chaos, property losses and personal disruptions brought about by the unusually severe hurricane season," said Col. Al Ballenger, system program director in the GPS Joint Program Office at Los Angeles Air Force Base. Today's launch was the first from Cape Canaveral since the extraordinary back-to-back hurricanes in September. The $45 million GPS satellite will be maneuvered into the orbiting constellation during the coming weeks. Once checked out by ground controllers, the craft will replace the oldest GPS satellite currently serving in one of the network's primary positions. GPS 2R-13 will assume the Plane D, Slot 1 position, taking over for the GPS 2A-11 craft launched in July 1991. The aging satellite is relying on its last remaining clock after functioning well beyond its seven-year design life. GPS satellites send continuous navigation signals that allow users around the world to find their position in latitude, longitude and altitude and determine time. The signals are so accurate that time can be figured to less than a millionth of a second, velocity to within a fraction of a mile per hour and location to within a few feet. The GPS constellation features 24 primary and several backup satellites split into six orbital planes. The Air Force continues to launch new satellites as replacements to keep the critical navigation system in good health. "The mean age of all of the satellite I have up there today is actually exceeding the original design life of all of the satellites. So we feel it is important to continue our launch campaign over the next several years to ensure that we never allow the capability to drop below the 24 satellites in the constellation," Ballenger said. "Our commitment has traditionally been to ensure a 95 percent confidence that we are always going to have 24 satellites in our constellation. More importantly, it's 24 satellites in the right slots in the constellation." The Air Force examines the fleet in deciding which orbital slot to target a new satellite launch. "We look at the whole constellation and which satellites are in which slots and also what the impact would be of a particular satellite if it failed," Ballenger said. "We'll also want to be in a position to minimize the impact of a single satellite failing. Each satellite on-orbit goes around the Earth twice a day. So relative to any point on the globe, the satellites are always moving across the sky. For one the receivers to really give the best navigation solution, it wants to be able to see as many satellites as possible. Depending on where you are on the globe, we have models that look at the constellation and where a particular failure might be and we figure out where it could do the most damage. So that is the slot, plane that we target to make sure we are going to keep it updated." As older craft begin to show signs of wear, controllers carefully monitor each satellite to prevent one from failing before it can be disposed. "We are getting pretty good at predicting about how much life is left in each one," Ballenger said. "One of the things we really don't want to allow to happen is to let one of the satellites fail in such a way that is becomes uncontrollable or that it becomes space junk before we have the opportunity to boost it out of the operational orbit and get out of the way of the rest of the constellation. So we carefully look at each one of those and we'll make an assessment on which ones really have outlived their useful life." Today's launch was the 52nd for a GPS satellite and the 41st carried on a Delta 2 rocket. It marked the 13th in the Block 2R series and the last of the current configuration. "With the successful launch of GPS 2R-13, the world-wide navigation system for both military and civil users is more robust than ever," said Dave Podlesney, GPS 2R program director at Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. "We take great pride in our partnership with the Air Force in carrying out the important mission of the GPS system and look forward to providing significantly improved positioning capabilities as we transition to the modernized fleet of 2R spacecraft." Starting with the next satellite, now slated for liftoff in May, the craft will be upgraded to include two new military signals and a second civilian signal. "These improvements will provide greater accuracy, better resistance to interference and enhance performance for all users. The M-code signal will provide the war fighters with a more robust jam-resistant signal, enabling effective munitions targeting in stressed and hostile environments," Ballenger said. Eight of the so-called Block 2R-Modernized craft are awaiting launch. The first is currently undergoing thermal vacuum chamber testing at Lockheed Martin in advance of shipment to Cape Canaveral in February. The next Delta 2 rocket launch is right around the corner. NASA's Swift gamma-ray observatory is scheduled for liftoff November 17 from Cape Canaveral's pad 17A. The satellite is scheduled for delivery to the pad on Monday. Link to comment
+pcmike Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Mind linking us to the article? I'd love to see the pictures! Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Thats funny cause i was just wondering when they were going to launch another one. Great article, thanks for sharing. Link to comment
+CapnJackSparrow Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) I found the link at Spaceflight Now Edited November 6, 2004 by CapnJackSparrow Link to comment
+The Jester Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 That's great news! Now I can keep finding tupperware in the woods... What will you do? Link to comment
+The Geocache Hunter Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I wonder if they will be increasing signal strength to help penetrate overhead cover (trees) and cloudy conditions. That would be nice. Link to comment
+Road Rabbit Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 It was a beautiful launch, but I had to stay up past my bedtime to see it. Link to comment
+Criminal Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Philadelphia Inquirer November 7, 2004 Air Force Rocket With GPS Satellite Is Launched A Boeing Delta 2 rocket carrying a Global Positioning System satellite for the Air Force roared into space early yesterday. After a three-week checkout period, the spacecraft is set to become the 30th operational unit in the GPS constellation. The system requires a minimum of 24 satellites to operate at full capacity. --AP Link to comment
+fly46 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 *scratches head* Okay, so the US has a gazillion dollars in debt, but they're launching $45 million satellites and only giving them a life of seven years? Shouldn't they work on that a bit? Link to comment
+Simulatmore Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 (edited) *scratches head* Okay, so the US has a gazillion dollars in debt, but they're launching $45 million satellites and only giving them a life of seven years? Shouldn't they work on that a bit? Hey anything to keep us Geocachers happy. Improvements in the Block 2F over previous satellites include a design life of 12.7 years Edited November 8, 2004 by Simulatmore Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 The new bird was built here in Alabama and an Alabama Geocachers Assn member helped build it Link to comment
+The red-haired witch Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 7 years was the design life. A bit like the warranty on something you buy. Basically, after that date, you can't complain to the company if it fails, it did what they said it would do. The satellite they just replaced was still working (but barely) after more than 23 years in orbit! Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 The new bird was built here in Alabama and an Alabama Geocachers Assn member helped build it The rocket engines are tested at Stennis SC, where several MSGA members work! sd Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 *scratches head* Okay, so the US has a gazillion dollars in debt, but they're launching $45 million satellites and only giving them a life of seven years? Shouldn't they work on that a bit? Yea who cares about the national spending and the unemployment rate at and all time low. As long as we sats. for the army thats all that matters. Atleast i get to use my Tax dollars at work, while i still have a job. I voted for the other guy. Link to comment
+Blue Bomb Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 7 years was the design life. A bit like the warranty on something you buy. Basically, after that date, you can't complain to the company if it fails, it did what they said it would do. The satellite they just replaced was still working (but barely) after more than 23 years in orbit! Excuse me if I am wrong, but isn't 2004-1991=13 years? Link to comment
+GeoDiver/GeoGrammy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 7 years was the design life. A bit like the warranty on something you buy. Basically, after that date, you can't complain to the company if it fails, it did what they said it would do. The satellite they just replaced was still working (but barely) after more than 23 years in orbit! Excuse me if I am wrong, but isn't 2004-1991=13 years? By my math it is...and I'm married to an elementary school math tacher. Link to comment
+Chillibusher Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Man....it's going to take a long time to pay off those sats with our membership fee of $30.00! Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Edited November 9, 2004 by Chillibusher Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Yea we will still be paying for it well after its been junked.....LoL Link to comment
+PDOP's Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 There are additional GPS sats planned to be launched in March, May, July, October and December of next year so keep your wallet handy. Launch Schedule Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Yea who cares about the national spending and the unemployment rate at and all time low. As long as we sats. for the army thats all that matters. Let me guess.... it's all President Bush's fault, right? I reckon when President Clinton turned-off SA you thought that was a bad thing, right? If Senator Kerry had won the Presidential election, would he have terminated the launch of new GPS satellites to replace older ones that were failing or reaching the end of their useful life? I don't care what your politics are. The GPS system is used not only by the military but by civilians. The food that is in your market was tracked by GPS while enroute to the store. When you call the police, many of our cars are dispatched based on the closest unit thanks to GPS... I could go on and on.... but I won't. I think most folks will understand what I'm trying to say. I will, however, say that if you think the launch of a new GPS satellite was a Republican conspiracy, you are totally mistaken. Happy geocaching! Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This has nothing to do with a "Republican conspiracy" i'm speaking in general terms no matter whos in office. We spend millions of dollars on equipment, and im not complaing about it. I think it plays a big part in our world and has made alot of millitary advancements possible. BUT, thier are other more important things we should consider spending our money on than lauching more sats. since were paying for the world to use them for free. Why do you think Clinton signed the bill for civilans to have access to them. When he did that though he opened the whole world using them on our expense. The one thing about the cop cars is they use 800mhz trunked systems and wireless systems to track cars packages and what not. Not GPS. Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 BUT, thier are other more important things we should consider spending our money on than lauching more sats. So you think we should just let the constellation die a slow painful death? Where do you propose we spend our tax dollars? The one thing about the cop cars is they use 800mhz trunked systems and wireless systems to track cars packages and what not. Not GPS Uh... I've got news for you, the department where I serve uses GPS. The data from the GPS is sent via an IDEN 800MHz network. In fact there are several local departments that are using GPS on both police and fire vehicles. My brother works for the second largest concrete company in the world. Guess how they track concrete trucks? GPS i.e. TracerNet by Trimble. The GPS system protects us from a military view and helps us from a civilian view. Happy geocaching! Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Oh yeah, don't forget all the GPS equipped ambulances that are in use. I certainly hope that if I, or a family member, ever needs the service of an ambulance that the ambulance company is able to dispatch the closest unit which can be determined via the location derived from the GPS system. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 unemployment rate at and all time low That's a good thing, no? Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 That's a good thing, no? Dang, I was so busy dismissing their assertion that police cars don't use GPS that I missed the part about unemployment. Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Like i've already said police and fire use 800Mhz systemes like you comfired with the iDEN network. Do you know what the iDEN network is and how it works? iDEN's digital technology divides a channel into different "slots". Each slot can carry one voice or data transmission. By deploying an iDEN system, service providers can increase capacity by as much as six times their current analog SMR network. Technology was developed by Motorola. Motorola provides both infrastructure and subscriber equipment. IP-based technology, employs private addressing scheme that must be addressed for large scale deployment. iDEN operates on the 800mhz and 1,500mhz bands using TDMA networks. Like i said its through wireless and radio waves not GPS. Same goes for TracerNet by Trimble. Trimble's Mobile Solutions Division offers complete solutions for mobile resource management (MRM), which include location-aware mobile devices, software, wireless communications and Internet location-based services. The division focuses on advanced wireless applications for fleet and workforce management, including construction, waste management, service, utility, and enterprise vehicles. So the adresses your seeing in your police car or what not on your computer screen is sent via wireless internet on the same band as your radio. I can prove this can you? To make a long store short, Sats are luxurys, not essintials for life. 75% of the public will go thier whole life without even using it once in thier life in some form or faishion. We did fine without them and we still can live without them in cilvian life. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) We did fine without them and we still can live without them in cilvian life. We did just fine before the automobile came along too. And boaters did great with compass and sextant. No need for GPS for them. They'll just have to go back and learn the basics like Columbus did. Edited November 9, 2004 by briansnat Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 We did fine without them and we still can live without them in cilvian life. We did just fine before the automobile came along too. And boaters did great with compass and sextant. No need for GPS for them. They'll just have to go back and learn the basics like Columbus did. don't forget the women driving SUVs need the satellite too, so they can call Onstar to honk their horn when they can't find their car in the mall parkinglot. Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 We did fine without them and we still can live without them in cilvian life. We did just fine before the automobile came along too. And boaters did great with compass and sextant. No need for GPS for them. They'll just have to go back and learn the basics like Columbus did. don't forget the women driving SUVs need the satellite too, so they can call Onstar to honk their horn when they can't find their car in the mall parkinglot. Thats funny, im sure if they could do that they would. Wouldnt you like to be the operator on the other end of that call when it came in. Lets not forget, Cars are also luxurys, you need one of those though. Your not forced against your will to get one. Sats we dont have a choice to buy though. Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 We did fine without them and we still can live without them in cilvian life. We did just fine before the automobile came along too. And boaters did great with compass and sextant. No need for GPS for them. They'll just have to go back and learn the basics like Columbus did. don't forget the women driving SUVs need the satellite too, so they can call Onstar to honk their horn when they can't find their car in the mall parkinglot. Thats funny, im sure if they could do that they would. Wouldnt you like to be the operator on the other end of that call when it came in. Lets not forget, Cars are also luxurys, you need one of those though. Your not forced against your will to get one. Sats we dont have a choice to buy though. well, it may be funny...but I was at a girlfriend's get together with the car, and my husband called onstar and pretended he'd lost the car. The horn will honk for 5 minutes on and off. he thought it was hilarious. Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 PS. Sorry to threadjack your concern about the national debt. Carry on. Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 That is pretty funny though. What did you do when you got in the car to tell them you had found it and the voice wasnt the same as the one on the phone? Sounds like something i would do. What would have made it even better is if your car was in Valet, and the guys didnt know how to turn it off. I've never used my Onstar before thank god. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Your not forced against your will to get one. Sats we dont have a choice to buy though. But we are forced to pay for roads to drive them. Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 That is pretty funny though. What did you do when you got in the car to tell them you had found it and the voice wasnt the same as the one on the phone? Sounds like something i would do. What would have made it even better is if your car was in Valet, and the guys didnt know how to turn it off. I've never used my Onstar before thank god. it doesn't go off. it keeps honking. it allows you time to walk around following the horn. and then Onstar will call back the original caller on their landline or cell phone and ask if the car was found. the thing is it does sound like the alarm, and I didn't know it was a prank. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't turn off the horn...but then the cell phone text messages started coming. and I figured out he was messing with me. Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 But we are forced to pay for roads to drive them. Your right and you have a point, but their are more people dirving and using roadways than thier are people using Sats. Dont get me wrong im not against Sats, i just think are money could be use for other more inportant things since most of the people will never use Sats, but they are paying the price. I dont see a Sat curing cancer or or helping someone pay thier medical bills. Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 So the adresses your seeing in your police car or what not on your computer screen is sent via wireless internet on the same band as your radio Dude.... where do you think the GPS data that is transmitted over our Iden system comes from? I never said we transmitted data over the GPS satellites! I simply said we make use of it in a non-military manner... like for saving lives and protecting property and getting things to market in a timely manner. Geesh.... Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 So the adresses your seeing in your police car or what not on your computer screen is sent via wireless internet on the same band as your radio Dude.... where do you think the GPS data that is transmitted over our Iden system comes from? I never said we transmitted data over the GPS satellites! I simply said we make use of it in a non-military manner... like for saving lives and protecting property and getting things to market in a timely manner. Geesh.... Exactly. Wireless technology is used to transmit the data. The data is created by using the signals from the satellites to triangulate their position. The GPS figures out where you are, then sends that signal OVER the wireless airwaves. sd Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Dude.... where do you think the GPS data that is transmitted over our Iden system comes from? I never said we transmitted data over the GPS satellites! Well for one you dont make any sense, you keep contradicting yourself. I already explained EXACTLY how the iDEN network works. One question your asking HOW the GPS data is transmitted and then in the next you say you dont transmit data over GPS sats. To answer your question again how the iDEN network works, It uses towers not GPS in the same manner your cell phone works. Over a wireless network. GPS is not used in shape form or fashion to transmitt data. Link to comment
+CapnJackSparrow Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 PS. Sorry to threadjack your concern about the national debt. Carry on. Thah has to be sarcasm. This thread was "threadjacked" a long time ago. Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Wireless technology is used to transmit the data. The data is created by using the signals from the satellites to triangulate their position. The GPS figures out where you are, then sends that signal OVER the wireless airwaves. sd Not in the case of the iDEN network it doesnt. it DOESNT use GPS in any shape for or fashion. I can prove this can you? Regardless of the fact that would mean im paying for something twice over. Edited November 9, 2004 by Texan78 Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 PS. Sorry to threadjack your concern about the national debt. Carry on. Thah has to be sarcasm. This thread was "threadjacked" a long time ago. I just didn't want to look silly. LOL! Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Not in the case of the iDEN network it doesnt. it DOESNT use GPS in any shape for or fashion. Who said that iDEN had anything to do with GPS? I simply stated that our GPS data was transmitted over an iDEN network. Should I continue to feed the troll? Happy geocaching! Edited November 9, 2004 by jeff35080 Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Wireless technology is used to transmit the data. The data is created by using the signals from the satellites to triangulate their position. The GPS figures out where you are, then sends that signal OVER the wireless airwaves. sd Not in the case of the iDEN network it doesnt. it DOESNT use GPS in any shape for or fashion. I can prove this can you? Regardless of the fact that would mean im paying for something twice over. How exactly does the "iDEN" network KNOW where the vehicle is? I've been reading up and I can't find anything about cooridinates or locations. All I can find is stuff about how the signal is sent. Give me some sort of explanation - and some links if possible. southdeltan Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 So the adresses your seeing in your police car or what not on your computer screen is sent via wireless internet on the same band as your radio. I can prove this can you? Nobody EVER disagreed with that. Where did the "address" (or coordinates") on the computer screen in the police car come from? The GPS triangulated it's location based on the satellites. Then, that data is relayed via the radio, wether it's iDEN or whatever. sd Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Who said that iDEN had anything to do with GPS? I simply stated that our GPS data was transmitted over an iDEN network. Its like talking to a wall. How many times are you going to contradict yourself? How can your "GPS Data" be tranismitted over iDEN network when the iDEN network has NOTHING to do with GPS. iDEN doesnt receive or transmitt GPS signals, data, bands and whatever else you think might pertains to GPS period. Link to comment
+fly46 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm not sure why this thread has gotten this bad. Why are people complaining about having these satelites? Now, if you were letterboxers, that would be more valid. But since you're not letterboxers........ HELLO YOURE GEOCACHERS YOU USE THESE SATELITES PROBABLY EVERY DAY I wasn't complaining in my above post. I was just surprised they were only designed for seven years. I am also happy to see that 16 years after it's anticipated demise it was still working. <-- that is so me and my best friend. Where did you find that smiley? Link to comment
+Texan78 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 How exactly does the "iDEN" network KNOW where the vehicle is? the iDEN network doesnt really track or receive vehicle signals. It is strictly a wireless data soultion. The police units locations are tracked by a low cost ASMR radar. Each police unit emits a encryptyed signal that indentifies each unit and its location. the ASMR picks up that signal with NO HELP from a Sat. The ASMR operates in the X-band combined with frequency diversity and circular antenna polarization that improves performance in the rain and snow. It provides the accuracy and resolution required to detect small surface vehicles as well as aircraft of all sizes. It the same manner as a becon works on aircraft. Its alot cheaper and a lot more reliable than using GPS. Link to comment
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