Elite Members

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I'd go along with that, but mostly they're just oblivious like RK.

 

 

Some people will do anything for a laugh.

 

John

It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying and I can only say that was a direct misquote.

The first one was a misquote too, since I made the oblivious comment, not RK

 

 

It appears that RK is the only 'innocent one' this time around.

 

shirley~

 

 

You really have to watch that half bald old fart...

 

John

[Grimstone]

To me it seems like you're missing the point of geocaching, but thats just my opinion. I don't choose what cache to go out and look for based on the trading policy! I try every cache that is within ~30mi radius equally. I'm more interested in where the cache takes me, not what I plan on getting from it or leaving in it!

 

Saxondog, I've stayed on track with my comments. They've all been systematic and the ones that appeared slightly off-track were done so intentionally to prove my point. I guess some people are just more interested in the creative aspect of geocaching (that being in making the cache), whereas others are more interested in the adventure. Then there are those who are interested in both. At this point I guess we can just agree that you're more concerned with the creative aspect of geocaching and consider whats in your cache more important then the adventure the cacher had to undergo in order to find your cache. To some thats perfectly acceptable, I just tend to disagree with that school of thought. We could probably also agree that I'm more concerned with the adventure and could care less what someone left in my cache so long as the person had a great time finding it. To you that may seem boring (I guess?). Oh well, we disagree and it seems that most people go 50/50 on this issue as well.

 

I'll try to make this my last post in this thread.

Any game that takes the cooperation of other people whom you do not know is going to take a lot of patience, respect, and forgiveness over minor greiviances.

 

As I asked earlier, couldnt part of this problem be solved by making well-thought out caches for premium members only?

Or is this still a problem even then?

I'm not sure if you've got some sort of agenda or not (as you seem to be trying to prove something and if so I applaud you for your slyness), but of course this is an issue even among premium members as one person's notion of "equal" is definitely NOT always the same as another person's notion of "equal."

Actually, no I wasnt trying to prove something nor do I have an agenda.

I think you are paranoid and easily put on the defensive.

As you can see from my profile, I am a complete novice, so I am just learning about all this and I was wondreing if it would be worth it to become a premium membre so I could stop finding crap in the woods.

[+pcmike]

To me it seems like you're missing the point of geocaching, but thats just my opinion. I don't choose what cache to go out and look for based on the trading policy! I try every cache that is within ~30mi radius equally. I'm more interested in where the cache takes me, not what I plan on getting from it or leaving in it!

 

Saxondog, I've stayed on track with my comments. They've all been systematic and the ones that appeared slightly off-track were done so intentionally to prove my point. I guess some people are just more interested in the creative aspect of geocaching (that being in making the cache), whereas others are more interested in the adventure. Then there are those who are interested in both. At this point I guess we can just agree that you're more concerned with the creative aspect of geocaching and consider whats in your cache more important then the adventure the cacher had to undergo in order to find your cache. To some thats perfectly acceptable, I just tend to disagree with that school of thought. We could probably also agree that I'm more concerned with the adventure and could care less what someone left in my cache so long as the person had a great time finding it. To you that may seem boring (I guess?). Oh well, we disagree and it seems that most people go 50/50 on this issue as well.

 

I'll try to make this my last post in this thread.

You two might find this interesting reading. Trading

 

El Diablo

I agree with you, I just don't want someone's log entry to be deleted because someone doesn't feel someone traded even or up.

 

I just placed my first cache recently and I'd guesstimate I spent about $10 or so on the entire cache. I didn't spend alot of money on 'swag,' in fact I even put two items I found in other caches in my very own. One was a new pair of gloves and the other was a TB. I wasn't too concerned with 'swag' as the cache could only hold one normal size TB (ie. stuff animal) and because I was more concerned with people exploring the area I intended to highlight by placing the cache.

 

Again, I agree with the trade even or trade up agreement. It's perfectly logical, I just don't encourage or accept the notion of sending "not acceptable" emails or deleting someone's log entry. To me that is just not in the spirit of geocaching.

[+pcmike]

grimstuff, fair enough... thats a good reason to ask, but yes, its an issue among all caches (placed by premium member or not).

[+archeangelsk2002]

hello again

myelf and lost fool have assembled 2 regular sized caches in ammo cans. both are clearly marked with the large green geocaching sticker. we have also assembled 15 micro caches. soon, we will be seeking approval to have these caches deployed.

in the ammo cans are practical items such as cd's etc...it doesnt matter to me or lost fool what gets traded or if nothing gets traded..all we want to do is have fun placing them and have fun by rewarding cachers for finding the caches.

its just plain fun....

in reference to mctoys my 65 year old father collects them and hotwheels cars. believe it or not some of the mctoys are collectors items and have a trade value.

like someone else thread stated one mans junkis another mans treasure.

the only thing ive taken from a cache was the doves travel bug...i took it from the travel bug motel cache...i really liked its appearance and within a waak i took it to another cache and dropped it off.the last time i checked it had traveled over 300 miles from ohio.

the point is have fun...

by the way, one of the better stocked caches i ran across was yodas swamp on daggobah...as i found the cache i met the owner...we spoke for a while..hes a nice fellow...you see folks there can be more to geocaching than worrying about the value of trade items.

 

regards

archie

[+briansnat]

n reference to mctoys my 65 year old father collects them and hotwheels cars. believe it or not some of the mctoys are collectors items and have a trade value.

like someone else thread stated one mans junkis another mans treasure.

 

I don't think anybody is complaining about new McToys. Most people welcome them as long as they are in their original wrapper or at least in good condition. Its the dirty, broken ones that look like they spent a couple of years under the seat of someone's car that annoy people.

 

you see folks there can be more to geocaching than worrying about the value of trade items.

 

True, but is it really necessary to treat a cache like a garbage bin?

Edited November 7, 2004 by briansnat

[+Charles Street Gang]

It's a sad day when I have to let my 6yo pick something from my swag because there are only golf balls and dirty, broken items in the cache. I'm trying to raise not only a good finder but a good hider as well!

[+TotemLake]

I'd go along with that, but mostly they're just oblivious like RK.

 

 

Some people will do anything for a laugh.

 

John

It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying and I can only say that was a direct misquote.

The first one was a misquote too, since I made the oblivious comment, not RK

And so it was. Sorry for that! Good bad or indifferent, I do like to give credit where credit is due. Debit too.

[+TotemLake]

All said,If you want people to take you serious, then you have to be serious.

And there's the point of taking life and the game too seriously. I predict early burnouts and eventual loss of temper with this kind of attitude because you will be sorely disappointed over the general upkeep of the cache as time goes on.

 

There are other lessons to be learned to not take this game seriously, but this will take time and experience because you believe you have the right answer already.

[+mozartman]

wise words, Totem.

 

I am not all that "serious" about caching-- you can tell that by my stats! But I have a good time when I go. I still consider myself a newbie, I've only been doing this for a year and a half or so. I thought and still think geocaching is a great idea, but I have never understood the concern and anguish over the quality of the cache contents. Most of the time I don't even look at them, sign the log and go on. I enjoy the search and where it takes me, and the finding! I guess many others have different priorities... c'est la vie~!

[Grimstone]

wise words, Totem.

 

I am not all that "serious" about caching-- you can tell that by my stats! But I have a good time when I go. I still consider myself a newbie, I've only been doing this for a year and a half or so. I thought and still think geocaching is a great idea, but I have never understood the concern and anguish over the quality of the cache contents. Most of the time I don't even look at them, sign the log and go on. I enjoy the search and where it takes me, and the finding! I guess many others have different priorities... c'est la vie~!

It seems to me that if we are to make caches available to everyone than there really is no way of getting aorund this. We cant control the behavior of others.

What I plan on doing, (i am a newbie) is to place my caches in very very difficult locations so that the only people who could or want to get it are going to be dedicated geocachers, i.e. no kids.

I just dont see any other detterent to this problem.

[+TotemLake]

Don't discount the stamina of kids. They have more energy than most of us.

[+Nurse Dave]

I've been known to send an email now and again when I see the somebody took a coin or something else I left and traded junk or nothing.  Just a polite reminder that if you're going to take something good you should leave something good or the cache will turn into junk.  Or a "it's only fair" line.  Who knows what happens but I figure a few people trade a little better knowing that it's doing noticed what they are doing.

I really doubt it. In fact, if the person was just oblivious like another poster suggested you probably went a long way in discouraging the person from every going out and trying to find caches again (or at least for awhile). No one likes to yelled at for enjoying a hobby. If you're going to take the contents of a cache so seriously, you might as well give it up or just buy trinkets at the dollar store.

I never said anything about yelling at them. If they are the type of people that really enjoy caching I would hope that they would think to themselves that they hadn't thought of that and will be more curtious in the future. And if people aren't going to trade fairly they should just enjoy the caching aspect of the sport and leave the trading for people that aren't going to take advantage of others generosity and degrade the caches.

[Kazriko]

I don't think anybody is complaining about new McToys. Most people welcome them as long as they are in their original wrapper or at least in good condition. Its the dirty, broken ones that look like they spent a couple of years under the seat of someone's car that annoy people.

 

Oh, so they HAVE to be in their original wrapper or you're not happy?

 

I've personally left two McDonalds beanie-baby toys in caches because they were the only things I had that would fit. My wife collects them, but hates to leave them in their wrappers and takes them out to stick on her shelf with the rest of her stuffed animals. They are in good condition however. How are we to know what YOU consider junk? Are the various sugarloaf stuffed animals we've left junk? How about that GeoCFett geocard? A YuGiOh card? I've found both of those, and I chalked it up as "something someone else might like" and left it at that. One of the oldest caches I've visited did have an assortment of random stuff in it that some people might consider junk, but also had some things that may interest different people such as an old PC game cd. We took only a little plastic grasshopper from that cache, and left one of our wierd colored stuffed animals. I didn't consider it a bad trade. The stuffed animals were ones we've been trying to thin down so my wife can get more, and the grasshopper was just a little bonus we can stick on a shelf as a memento.

Edited November 8, 2004 by Kazriko

[Kazriko]

What kind of person leaves a golf tee for a geo-coin etc......etc..

I'm curious. What do people consider a Geo-coin to be worth, especially if you're going to move it to another cache. How about a Travel bug? How much should you trade if you're taking a travel bug to move? The one Bug I have I traded another stuffed animal for. Gee, all of this determining what things are worth gives me a headache. Maybe I should just TNLNSL everything.

[+brodiebunch]

You can only worry about what you are doing.

 

In the 160 caches we have found, I can recall about 6 items cool enough or useful enough to keep for ourselves. Everything else is moved along to other caches or put into a new cache of our own.

 

The only thing I will not take from a cache obviously is another cacher's signature item with their name or photo on it. To me that's their mark indicating they found this cache.

 

Geocaching is a combination outdoor/internet activity. Save the shopping for the mall or Target.

 

Brodiebunch

 

[+TotemLake]

That's a good point. Geocoins are signature items just as much as other personalized items and are not considered part of the geocaching swag for trade, but rather are considered signature items for collection. It's nice that someone would leave something behind when they take a signature item, but not required.

 

The same is true for TB's, although instead of being treated as signature items, these are a subgame to the game. The only time I've seen TB's encouraged to be traded are at caches set up to be TB Hotels. That's a specifity to the subgame that people generally follow.

[Kazriko]

That's a good point. Geocoins are signature items just as much as other personalized items and are not considered part of the geocaching swag for trade, but rather are considered signature items for collection. It's nice that someone would leave something behind when they take a signature item, but not required.

 

I did take one signature item on my first cache, but afterward I emailed the person who left it asking if I could keep it. They said that it was fine, and that they had a collection of other people's signature items as well. (My wife found a Jud' thimble in the cache and loved it, so I traded a beanie-baby for it.) I still tend to trade for the item no matter what it is.

 

When I start leaving my Schlock Mercenary stickers, I'd probably Encourage people to take them and keep em. I'm pretty sure I'd be leaving other things in addition to the stickers though.

[+Team Neos]

I have just realized that I am very bad!

 

I LOVE to collect sig items, and will gleefully take them from a cache unless it is obvious that they are left for the cache owner (left in the log bag with a note that says "for the cache owner", for example). I don't trade for them per se, although I do leave some of my sig items behind (mineral samples).

[i really don't think that folks leave them behind thinking that they will stay there forever. Imagine how full some caches would get it that were true. ]

 

I also am guilty of trading "sideways" and contributing to the degradation of the cache...I have found things that I wanted, and had a hard time deciding the $$$ amount on them--so I trade for two or three smaller items...no wait, that isn't enough...OK four small items...and a mineral sample...and a tiny compass (1/4 inch, really). So now, instead of one $4 item in the cache, there are $7 worth of small things. Did I trade up? Hmmm, dollar-wise, yes...but the cache doesn't have that one good thing in it any longer. So now it is "filled with junk" and it all my fault.

 

I usually carry more expensive items, also, but these tend to be larger, so I usually only have one or maybe two with me. When those are gone, I have to do something if I want to trade out. Sometimes its "take nothing, leave a magnet", but usually I do as I describe above. I will have to think on this, maybe it is something I need to reconsider.

[+Nurse Dave]

That's a good point. Geocoins are signature items just as much as other personalized items and are not considered part of the geocaching swag for trade, but rather are considered signature items for collection. It's nice that someone would leave something behind when they take a signature item, but not required.

 

The same is true for TB's, although instead of being treated as signature items, these are a subgame to the game. The only time I've seen TB's encouraged to be traded are at caches set up to be TB Hotels. That's a specifity to the subgame that people generally follow.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't see how a $3-5 coin is in there just for people to take for nothing. I agree there isn't a need to trade for TBs, but just because it's a sig item doesn't mean it's a free for all. I think if you're going to treat it as a TB item and log it and move it on that's fine, but if it's going into a box in your garage then you should trade fairly for it. What if someone always leaves a little flashlight in every cache they go to? That's their sig item even if it's not a coin or has their name on it. People should just take it to collect?

[+Nurse Dave]

 

I also am guilty of trading "sideways" and contributing to the degradation of the cache...I have found things that I wanted, and had a hard time deciding the $$$ amount on them--so I trade for two or three smaller items...no wait, that isn't enough...OK four small items...and a mineral sample...and a tiny compass (1/4 inch, really). So now, instead of one $4 item in the cache, there are $7 worth of small things. Did I trade up? Hmmm, dollar-wise, yes...but the cache doesn't have that one good thing in it any longer. So now it is "filled with junk" and it all my fault.

 

I usually carry more expensive items, also, but these tend to be larger, so I usually only have one or maybe two with me. When those are gone, I have to do something if I want to trade out. Sometimes its "take nothing, leave a magnet", but usually I do as I describe above. I will have to think on this, maybe it is something I need to reconsider.

I think this is fine. This whole thread is personal opinion of course, but I don't expect people to carry around things of the same monitary or cool factor as a coin. If they trade several things for something bigger as long as they aren't a bunch of worthless (you know what I'm talking about) things. Of course it's not a bad idea for people to carry around one nice item in case they find something cool they want to trade for. And coins work well for that too []

[+Team Tigger International]

"You MUST leave something worth AT LEAST $25.00 (cash or other item) or, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS CACHE. NOTE: NO travel bugs will fit into this cache. NOTE: THIS APPLIES ONLY TO THE ORIGINAL CONTENTS OF THIS GEOCACHE; AS OF 5/1/05 THE CONTENTS OF THIS GEOCACHE ARE WORTH ABOUT $15 USD SO YOU CAN BRING SOMETHING WORTH THAT AMOUNT, PLEASE."

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&log=y&decrypt=

 

Don't seem to be working that though.

 

Wulf

[+TotemLake]

That's a good point. Geocoins are signature items just as much as other personalized items and are not considered part of the geocaching swag for trade, but rather are considered signature items for collection. It's nice that someone would leave something behind when they take a signature item, but not required.

 

The same is true for TB's, although instead of being treated as signature items, these are a subgame to the game. The only time I've seen TB's encouraged to be traded are at caches set up to be TB Hotels. That's a specifity to the subgame that people generally follow.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't see how a $3-5 coin is in there just for people to take for nothing. I agree there isn't a need to trade for TBs, but just because it's a sig item doesn't mean it's a free for all. I think if you're going to treat it as a TB item and log it and move it on that's fine, but if it's going into a box in your garage then you should trade fairly for it. What if someone always leaves a little flashlight in every cache they go to? That's their sig item even if it's not a coin or has their name on it. People should just take it to collect?

Well I think we can agree there is no guideline on the subject, and the opinion varies. I merely stated my opinion and stand by it with my current signature items and will stand by it when I receive my WA geocoins. My current signature item doesn't cost much in terms of $$$, but I put time, effort and utilities into it (including the time and effort cleaning my printer from misprints).

 

As for the WA geocoins that I have bought... I'll treat them like standard signature items to be collected and no trades to worry about because I leave my signature items without making a trade. The only difference is the finder will have to have earned the find so they won't be placed in any ordinary cache. It'll have to give me a WOW WOW factor to be placed.

[+briansnat]

I don't think anybody is complaining about new McToys. Most people welcome them as long as they are in their original wrapper or at least in good condition. Its the dirty, broken ones that look like they spent a couple of years under the seat of someone's car that annoy people.

 

Oh, so they HAVE to be in their original wrapper or you're not happy?

 

I think I said "in their original wrapper, or at least in good condition". I think wrote that. I'll have to go back and look.

 

How are we to know what YOU consider junk?

 

A partial list would include expired Sanaka coupons, toy soldiers with the head chewed by the family dog, candy wrappers, rusty key rings, metrocards with no rides left on them, dirty used golf balls, stones or other detritus obviously picked up from the ground next to the cache, pens with no ink, broken crayons, bent bottle caps, broken floppy disks, cheap sunglasses with one lens missing, dead batteres, empty butane lighters, dirty diaper covers and generally anything that ordnarily would or should have been thrown in the trash. I guess I'm a real zealot when it comes to this issue.

 

Yeah, I know that there might be people out there who collect empty Bic lighters and one-eyed people who might appreciate the sunglasses with the missing lens, so who am I to say that people shouldn't leave this kind of stuff.

Edited November 8, 2004 by briansnat

[thorin]

Why do people not give what they take!!!! I am thinking of just giving adequete givers the coordinates to my caches. What kind of person leaves a golf tee for a geo-coin etc......etc..

Well considering a GeoCoin is supposed to move from cache to cache they essentially took nothing and left something. I see no problem with that.

 

Now if they took the GeoCoin out of circulation (which you wouldn't know unless they left a gloating log about it or you've waited a substantial amount of time to see where if pops up) and left a Tee then that's something to complain about, but that's also a completely different issue.

 

Thorin

[+ChinCache]

Two years ago my salary level was cut by 60%. Rather then trade down I "tnlnsl" this allowed me to still get out inthe woods every so often.

[Midnight Rider]

I don't think anybody is complaining about new McToys. Most people welcome them as long as they are in their original wrapper or at least in good condition. Its the dirty, broken ones that look like they spent a couple of years under the seat of someone's car that annoy people.

 

Oh, so they HAVE to be in their original wrapper or you're not happy?

 

I think I said "in their original wrapper, or at least in good condition". I think wrote that. I'll have to go back and look.

 

How are we to know what YOU consider junk?

 

A partial list would include expired Sanaka coupons, toy soldiers with the head chewed by the family dog, candy wrappers, rusty key rings, metrocards with no rides left on them, dirty used golf balls, stones or other detritus obviously picked up from the ground next to the cache, pens with no ink, broken crayons, bent bottle caps, broken floppy disks, cheap sunglasses with one lens missing, dead batteres, empty butane lighters, dirty diaper covers and generally anything that ordnarily would or should have been thrown in the trash. I guess I'm a real zealot when it comes to this issue.

 

Yeah, I know that there might be people out there who collect empty Bic lighters and one-eyed people who might appreciate the sunglasses with the missing lens, so who am I to say that people shouldn't leave this kind of stuff.

I really think I like you, Briansnat!

[+briansnat]

I really think I like you, Briansnat

 

Thanks mom!

[Kazriko]

A partial list would include expired Sanaka coupons, toy soldiers with the head chewed by the family dog, candy wrappers, rusty key rings, metrocards with no rides left on them,  dirty used golf balls, stones or other detritus obviously picked up from the  ground next to the cache,  pens with no ink, broken crayons, bent bottle caps, broken floppy disks,  cheap sunglasses with one lens missing, dead batteres, empty butane lighters, dirty diaper covers  and generally anything that ordnarily would or should have been thrown in the trash. I guess I'm a real zealot when it comes to this issue.

 

Yeah, I know that there might be people out there who collect empty Bic lighters and one-eyed people who might appreciate the sunglasses with the missing lens, so who am I to say that people shouldn't leave this kind of stuff.

Rusty Key Rings: How do you know it was rusty when it was put in the cache? Does it have something attached that isn't rusty? The key rings themselves can be replaced if there's a toy or other keychain attached that is interesting.

Pens with no ink: They could have had ink but it may have frozen or had some other detremental effect while in the cache.

Broken Crayons: They might have been whole when put in, but some cacher may have accidentally broken it while looking through the cache. They sometimes melt too.

Stuff from around the cache: Quite possibly accidental, like they spread items around on the ground to get a good look at them, and grabbed a rock or leaf while stuffing them back in.

Empty Butane Lighters: Depends on if they're BICs, Zippos, or some other type of disposable or refillable lighter. If it's refillable, i'm sure there's people who would grab it. A bottle of butane is as little as $0.99 at many convenience stores. If it has a nice pattern on it, it might be ok. If it's just a plain, no logo disposable bic, then it should be thrown away.

Dirty used golfballs: I'm sure there's some golfers who geocache who would take them and clean them up.

 

On the rest of it, you're probably right.

 

If you find something that's broken or damaged, I see no reason not to toss it in a trash bag you might be carrying. If you want to improve the general condition of caches, you could take a bunch of trash items and leave something mildly nice in their place.

[+TresOkies]

How timely and appropriate this thread. Yesterday I went on a "cache check", where I drove from one cache to the next to check them out and make sure that they are still there and still alright. Three of the four are ammo cans that have been stocked with decent schwag within the last six months. By "decent schwag", I mean stuff that would appeal to a 5-12 year old (bubbles, card games, magnetic chess and checkers games, etc.) as well as some useful stuff that might appeal to adults (multi-tool, ZIP ties, computer and Palm gizmos). All are in rural areas with few caches within a 20 mile radius other than my own.

 

The three ammo cans had all degraded seriously over the six months. Not a single thing in them other than TBs, the log book and biblical tracts. I sat by the side of the lake at one of the places and asked myself why I did this. I can afford the toys and such. I don't give a rats butt about the schwag, but kids do. My son now hates geocaching because every time we get to a box, it's full of crap. He's 7 and he hasn't grasped the concept of "the joy is in the journey".

 

I have two caches at a nearby state park that I checked about two months ago. Both of them had to be restocked as well. What really killed me about one of them, was that it was the "community cache" from our geocaching event campout in May 2003. That box was stuffed to the gills with really good stuff. Everything in it was good. A bunch of people logged the cache in the weeks after the event, but those were the people at the event. After that, it was a trickle of people. I was stunned when I checked the box that fall. It was nearly empty. The log book was signed by tons of people who never bothered to log it online.

 

As of last week, I had eight geocaches. Four ammo boxes, two decons, one virtual, and a TB hotel. All four of the ammo boxes suffered continual degradation. The TB hotel suffers the same problem with people taking more TBs than they leave and not logging the cache online. I have a cache that is very cool. It's been raided a few times and I keep putting it back because it's a neat place to visit. Does anyone visit it? Not really. Why? I have a pretty good idea, but I'll keep my generalizations to myself. If you look at the cache, look at the topo map version and you will understand. I will keep it out of sentimentality if nothing else--it was my first cache in Oklahoma and came long before the Great Renumbering.

 

What I am planning to do is pull all four of my ammo boxes and one of the decons. I will replace them with one Members Only ammo box that I will keep stocked with good stuff for the kiddos. I've resisted the temptation to place a MOC up to this point, but I'm beginning to see the value in it.

 

I'm sorry that it's come to this, but I've nearly lost my desire for geocaching. Where we used to plan a day of activity around a geocache hunt, now we never bother. I might grab one or two while I'm traveling, but I don't bother trying to get my family involved. I need to make my son want to cache again. Perhaps I will have him help me stock the new MOC and he can take his pick from the goodies. Maybe I'll plant a few caches just for him to find so that he will get excited about it again. Maybe we'll just bag it and go bowling instead.

[+briansnat]

I'm sure there's some golfers who geocache who would take them and clean them up.

 

I golf and most of the golfballs I've found in caches were too far gone to be of any use.

[Pto]

Dirty used golfballs: I'm sure there's some golfers who geocache who would take them and clean them up.

 

As a golfer, im willing to bet most who play wouldnt think of using an old beat up range ball found while caching. When new balls are $8 - 15(+) per 3 pack, your not going to be finding many worth saving / using out in the woods - At least in my experience

 

Most people leaving them arent always golfers, so arent looking at it as "a fairly good golf ball" but rather "some junk to leave in caches"

[Grimstone]

How timely and appropriate this thread. Yesterday I went on a "cache check", where I drove from one cache to the next to check them out and make sure that they are still there and still alright. Three of the four are ammo cans that have been stocked with decent schwag within the last six months. By "decent schwag", I mean stuff that would appeal to a 5-12 year old (bubbles, card games, magnetic chess and checkers games, etc.) as well as some useful stuff that might appeal to adults (multi-tool, ZIP ties, computer and Palm gizmos). All are in rural areas with few caches within a 20 mile radius other than my own.

 

The three ammo cans had all degraded seriously over the six months. Not a single thing in them other than TBs, the log book and biblical tracts. I sat by the side of the lake at one of the places and asked myself why I did this. I can afford the toys and such. I don't give a rats butt about the schwag, but kids do. My son now hates geocaching because every time we get to a box, it's full of crap. He's 7 and he hasn't grasped the concept of "the joy is in the journey".

 

I have two caches at a nearby state park that I checked about two months ago. Both of them had to be restocked as well. What really killed me about one of them, was that it was the "community cache" from our geocaching event campout in May 2003. That box was stuffed to the gills with really good stuff. Everything in it was good. A bunch of people logged the cache in the weeks after the event, but those were the people at the event. After that, it was a trickle of people. I was stunned when I checked the box that fall. It was nearly empty. The log book was signed by tons of people who never bothered to log it online.

 

As of last week, I had eight geocaches. Four ammo boxes, two decons, one virtual, and a TB hotel. All four of the ammo boxes suffered continual degradation. The TB hotel suffers the same problem with people taking more TBs than they leave and not logging the cache online. I have a cache that is very cool. It's been raided a few times and I keep putting it back because it's a neat place to visit. Does anyone visit it? Not really. Why? I have a pretty good idea, but I'll keep my generalizations to myself. If you look at the cache, look at the topo map version and you will understand. I will keep it out of sentimentality if nothing else--it was my first cache in Oklahoma and came long before the Great Renumbering.

 

What I am planning to do is pull all four of my ammo boxes and one of the decons. I will replace them with one Members Only ammo box that I will keep stocked with good stuff for the kiddos. I've resisted the temptation to place a MOC up to this point, but I'm beginning to see the value in it.

 

I'm sorry that it's come to this, but I've nearly lost my desire for geocaching. Where we used to plan a day of activity around a geocache hunt, now we never bother. I might grab one or two while I'm traveling, but I don't bother trying to get my family involved. I need to make my son want to cache again. Perhaps I will have him help me stock the new MOC and he can take his pick from the goodies. Maybe I'll plant a few caches just for him to find so that he will get excited about it again. Maybe we'll just bag it and go bowling instead.

This is really sad.

In your opinion, does it help if you make your caches very hard to find?

It seems that if a cache is very difficult, the only ones to get it will be dedicated and contienscious cachers.

[+Lean Wolf]

Cache finders: TNLNSL, go for the hunt and the location, and then you don't have to worry. If you really want the pastic boxes to contain valuable stuff, the only thing you can do to improve things is to set a good example. It's either that or TNLNSL.

 

Cache hiders: Leave your stuff in the cache and then forget it. What's the point of trying to keep people trading fairly or to keep up the monetary value of the cache contents as long as there are people caching. People in general aren't fair. Your job is to see to that the rubbish is kept dry. 'Cause if it is, so is the log. And the log is the heart of the game.

[+briansnat]

Cache finders: TNLNSL, go for the hunt and the location, and then you don't have to worry. If you really want the pastic boxes to contain valuable stuff, the only thing you can do to improve things is to set a good example.

 

I don't think anybody here is looking for "valuable stuff". What they would like is that other geocachers don't use caches as garbage disposals. And next time I go hunting with my 4 year old nephew and he's disappointed by a box full of trash, I'll tell him you said it was all about the hunt.

[+twilliams]

hey can it at least be a rule that "handouts for my rock band" as swag will hereforward deem instant log removal...

 

 

-t-

 

ps - it's joke son... please foward all deaththreats to hyker311 for starting the thread.

[+Spiritnip]

I would like to see a "McToy" standard implemented. I realize that if I put Geo-coins, TB's, watches, Georges or anything else that is any better than MCtoys, I will probably receive something that is the equivilent of a McToy. But the value of any item left in the cache should not be less than a Mctoy. Anything with less value than a McToy should be thrown in the nearest trash can. It's funny to see a cache with 2 busted marbles, a one-legged G.I Joe and a soggy deck of playing cards....and a CITO container right next to it. There's a whole bunch of crap right there, you don't even have to walk around to pick it up! Maybe CITO should be as much about removing crap from caches as it is trash from the enviroment. I just don't expect much and I'm rarely disapointed.

 

He that is hard to please, may get nothing in the end. - Aesop

 

I really think the game would improve if more people made handmade items to put in the cache. Even if you're not creative, you could throw some beads on a string and make a bracelet or a neklace. Even if it just costs you 10 cents worth of material it would make it more fun to take something with you that another person created.

 

ahh but that's probably a pipe dream, and my pipe is loaded

[+LKN4FUN]

pc mike...I don't think you two need to worry about eachothers caches. Ones on OH and the other is in FL.

Edited November 9, 2004 by LKN4FUN

[+LKN4FUN]

I went to reply and It got lost, not sure where it went...

Saxondog and PC Mike...You two are in tow different states so you don't need to worry about eachothers caches. Yes sometimes i see junk, I try to remember the mctoys are for families whoe geocache. Getting a "toy" is just a nice additive. The whole idea of caching is for fun!!!

Yes I too would be dissapointed if I got junk in my caches, however when I do dfind a cache with "good stuff" t makes it all the better.

Some some caches are nicer than others, maybe somepeopl can't afford much. Someone said if you bought a GPS to cache with... maybe someone got this as a gift. Or what if someone is new to geocaching and is not sure what kind of goodies to put in. Yes the bad people do always ruin things for the good people, but this seems to be a way of life. I don't belieave in a reprimand...this is ment to be fun and it's only a game! Maybe someone will learn to start to carry better items of trade? Maybe not. It is great you have agreed to disagree, however there is alot in life we disagree with and just actept.

Just felt like putting my 2 cents in.

You two seemed to be so heated on this deate. Some people are into provaking, maybe this was all it was? I don't know.

I know I try to put my trade at = value but sometimes I may run low on supplies, sometimes i put a good goodie, like a coin in a cache that has "lame" goodies. It all balances out in the end.

 

OK I SHOULD HAVE USED SPELL CHECK!!

Edited November 9, 2004 by LKN4FUN

[+amytincan]

You can only worry about what you are doing.

 

In the 160 caches we have found, I can recall about 6 items cool enough or useful enough to keep for ourselves. Everything else is moved along to other caches or put into a new cache of our own.

 

The only thing I will not take from a cache obviously is another cacher's signature item with their name or photo on it. To me that's their mark indicating they found this cache.

 

Geocaching is a combination outdoor/internet activity. Save the shopping for the mall or Target.

 

Brodiebunch

 

I didn't have as much to worry about before I read this thread. Its totally confusing this newbie. what is right vs. what is wrong.

[+TresOkies]

In your opinion, does it help if you make your caches very hard to find?

It seems that if a cache is very difficult, the only ones to get it will be dedicated and contienscious cachers.

The caches are

3.5/3

3/3

3/2.5

2.5/2

1.5/1.5

1.5/1.5

1/1

1/1

 

Some are a little difficult and some are quite easy. The easy ones get significantly more traffic than the harder ones. The harder ones, though, are really the ones that are worth visiting. The others are "drive bys" and have no value other than their easy access.

 

I realize that there a different strokes for different folks and some folks are physically incapable of climbing 150 foot straight up the side of a hill. I want to provide fun caches for families, but the easy caches are always degrading.

 

Another of the thoughts I've had is to make a driveable multicache that ends in a 1/1 ammo box filled with goodies.

 

-E

[+Lean Wolf]

Cache finders: TNLNSL, go for the hunt and the location, and then you don't have to worry. If you really want the pastic boxes to contain valuable stuff, the only thing you can do to improve things is to set a good example.

 

I don't think anybody here is looking for "valuable stuff". What they would like is that other geocachers don't use caches as garbage disposals. And next time I go hunting with my 4 year old nephew and he's disappointed by a box full of trash, I'll tell him you said it was all about the hunt.

"Valuable" does not necessarily mean expensive. I did not mean expensive. And I bet your nephew finds McToys being pretty valuable.

[+briansnat]

Cache finders: TNLNSL, go for the hunt and the location, and then you don't have to worry. If you really want the pastic boxes to contain valuable stuff, the only thing you can do to improve things is to set a good example.

 

I don't think anybody here is looking for "valuable stuff". What they would like is that other geocachers don't use caches as garbage disposals. And next time I go hunting with my 4 year old nephew and he's disappointed by a box full of trash, I'll tell him you said it was all about the hunt.

"Valuable" does not necessarily mean expensive. I did not mean expensive. And I bet your nephew finds McToys being pretty valuable.

And he would. But garbage he doesn't.

[+Mudinyeri]

I would like to see a "McToy" standard implemented.  I realize that if I put Geo-coins, TB's,  watches, Georges or anything else that is any better than MCtoys, I will probably receive something that is the equivilent of a McToy.  But the value of any item left in the cache should not be less than a Mctoy.  Anything with less value than a McToy should be thrown in the nearest trash can.  It's funny to see a cache with 2 busted marbles, a one-legged G.I Joe and a soggy deck of playing cards....and a CITO container right next to it.  There's a whole bunch of crap right there, you don't even have to walk around to pick it up!  Maybe CITO should be as much about removing crap from caches as it is trash from the enviroment.  I just don't expect much and I'm rarely disapointed.

 

He that is hard to please, may get nothing in the end. - Aesop

 

I really think the game would improve if more people made handmade items to put in the cache.  Even if you're not creative, you could throw some beads on a string and make a bracelet or a neklace.  Even if it just costs you 10 cents worth of material it would make it more fun to take something with you that another person created.

 

ahh but that's probably a pipe dream, and my pipe is loaded

Would the inexpensive handmade item meet the "worth more than a McToy" standard simply because it was handmade? If you truly only spent $0.10 on materials then the item, assuming your labor was free, is worth about 90% less than a McToy. (I think they're $1.00 if you buy them without the meal.)

 

I have to admit I'm clueless as to why people get their undies in a bunch over what's in a cache. Are you really 'caching for what's inside the container? What about the hike, the time spent with family or friends, the fun of the search, the camaraderie of a shared hobby?

 

I know people get into this hobby for different reasons but for those who are truly in it for what's in the cache maybe treasure diving on sunken ships would be less frustrating!?

 

Edit: OK, a cache full of trash I understand. Simply re-stock it and trash out the junk. We found one this weekend with an empty Star Wars toy box in it. Our friend's son was very disappointed as he is into Star Wars big time and would have loved the toy. He's learned the lesson early that some people aren't as generous as others. We had a sack full of stuff so we re-stocked the virtually empty cache and trashed out the junk. Was it a big deal? Only for the four year old!

Edited November 9, 2004 by Mudinyeri

[+briansnat]

I would like to see a "McToy" standard implemented. I realize that if I put Geo-coins, TB's, watches, Georges or anything else that is any better than MCtoys, I will probably receive something that is the equivilent of a McToy. But the value of any item left in the cache should not be less than a Mctoy

 

I don't think any of us wants to see a "value test" for cache contents. Heck, I've found some pretty neat stuff that probably cost pennies, or less. Avroair's rubber martians come to mind.

 

How about if we all just throw our trash into the garbage and not the cache and be reasonably fair when it comes to trading. Those two things should eliminate 99 percent of the complaints.

[+Mudinyeri]

How about if we all just throw our trash into the garbage and not the cache and be reasonably fair when it comes to trading. Those two things should eliminate 99 percent of the complaints.

 

Or ... how about if we just stop complaining, period? We know there will always be people who don't expend the time, effort or expense to fill caches with "nice" stuff. It's a fact of life. Complaining about it is sort of like complaining about gravity.

 

I get so p***ed off when gravity holds me to the earth and I can't slam dunk a basket ball.

[+joefrog]

I feel also that logs that reflect that the cache owner is serious and does very regular maintenance,and,makes a comment on the contents from time to time,and places this in his log. well it would not take much to see that the owner is serious about his work All said,If you want people to take you serious, then you have to be serious.

I'll say it very slowly...

 

G – A – M – E

 

Seriously, man... loosen up.

 

[+Nurse Dave]

I feel also that logs that reflect that the cache owner is serious and does very regular maintenance,and,makes a comment on the contents from time to time,and places this in his log. well it would not take much to see that the owner is serious about his work All said,If you want people to take you serious, then you have to be serious.

I'll say it very slowly...

 

G – A – M – E

 

Seriously, man... loosen up.

 

Ya, heaven forbid people ask and expect others to respect their caches and the game.

[+joefrog]

Ya, heaven forbid people ask and expect others to respect their caches and the game.

Oh, by all means -- take that comment how you WANT to hear it. Go back and read his post. I love it when people do that!

 

If he sees this as "work" and that the owner "must be serious," then he is going to develop some ulcers very fast. Threatening to delete log entries, "you must play by my rules," etc., doesn't go well with things played as a GAME. It'd be different if lives were at stake.

 

If you search for any of my caches, you'll normally find them full of decent stuff. if not, I do appreciate the people who let me know. You're also likely to find things that you don't expect to find -- rubber snakes, rubber roaches, fake vomit... if I took this GAME seriously, I wouldn't need this office job to give me stress.

[Kazriko]

Eesh. I mean there's enough headaches in this Game just trying to figure out if something is on private property or not, or if something is too close to an airport or not, or if snooping around this cemetary http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...40-8ff81b438d5f will get you arrested. Do we have to throw in making sure our trades meet with the approval of everyone who may visit the cache in the future? I agree that you should trade as evenly as you can, but the only person you have to consult on the values of things at the cache is yourself.