The Good Thing About Benchmarking....

[+wolves shepherd]

No police department has ever come out and shot one with a .50-cal after a find.....

 

Sorry, couldn't reisist in light of the furor over the recent "incident" in Hartofrd City, IN.

[+baloo&bd]

What incident?

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Another good thing about benchmarking...is you do not have to buy anything to trade & then have to drag along several bags of stuff. Also there is more to drag along to help out the aging caches...such as new containers, log books, plastic baggies to replace those that have gotten all torn up by the pens & pencils.,,,Etc. Etc.

 

All you need for benching is the info for the mark (we have a lap top) , something to clean the mark, a shovel (in case it has been buried by sand/pineneedles/grader/etc.) , a metal detector to find the spot to dig , a digital camera to take all of those beautiful pictures & have proof of being at the right spot, a metal rod (this comes in really handy is the mark is a metal rod & the lid will not open as well as to poke around in the sand when you have forgotten your metal dector)

 

OH NO...It looks like we have aquired more 'things' to take with us for Benching than for caching.....

 

We still do both...but prefer the boonie caches than the urban because we do not like the feeling of being watched.

 

And of course, we benchmark hunt more because we love the history of surveying. It is really a fun sport. (besides, there are very few caches nearby except for ours). ((but LOTS of benchmarks!))

 

Shirley~

[Bill93]

There's a big discussion going over in the general geocaching forum on this

topic

 

about this cache at a business location

Tin Lizzy

 

which got reported to the police and disposed of by the bomb squad. The hider had someone's permission, although a lot of people around did not know of it.

[+BlueDeuce]

Benchmarks are rarely muggled. (Road construction on the other hand.)

 

Try hunting on a train track and you might meet the Sheriff.

[evenfall]

I hope I am not speaking out of turn, as I do not hunt geocaches myself. I just do the Bench Marks. It seems to me though that there are a few thoughts I would like to share in the parallels that can be drawn to Bench Mark Hunting and the Survey field as well.

 

First, It is sad that this happened. I read most of that thread and as unfortunate as it was it still happened. However, no matter what comes down, the onus is on us to dot all the eyes and cross all the T's. If we want geocaching to keep it's good name there are things we have to take responsibility for, collectively and personally.

 

Most who work in the Survey Field will tell you, trespassing is always a dangerous factor in our work. Sometimes we don't think we are when someone else will. You can be met by unhappy property owners and well, it is more a matter of when, not if. The difference is that we look like surveyors when we are met, not just like people who are wearing street clothes and are perhaps tresspassing... There are plenty of places we need to stand and walk through to do the work and it isn't unlike Geocaching. We really have to ask a lot of people permission to enter their land to do our work. Our hat is in our hand, we are humble and kind, and we are mindful to leave things as we find them as much as is possible.

 

This instance has me thinking, Should we place a cache without permission, Should a cache be approved without showing that permission was obtained, and since the activity seems to appear suspicious to the uninformed and Law Enforcement officials in this Post 9/11 age, would we as Geocachers be safer to ask a property owner permission to recover a cache before we do, just so they know we are there and why? That way they know that suspicious looking person hunting a piece of Tupperware or an Ammo Can is cool? I am sure that the approvers are doing their best to verify things and that most Cache placers are obtaining all the necessary permissions when they can or if needed but we have to look out for ourselves as well. We are all ambassadors of the hobby.

 

I hope all the people who place a cache use an approved Decal from Geocaching, I mean It looks Uniform and Official. It has the web address and the logo. It has the place to put the Cache approval number, and if Law enforcement officials are familiar with the logo and stickers since they are uniform in style, then they can easily identify what they have. I realize this may add cost to those who hide caches, and make their own labels to save money. They may even disagree with my opinion as well and I am prepared for that, but I am thinking about public support for our hobby in how they perceive us, and our good standing in the community as well as with Law Enforcement Officials.

 

As with the Bench Mark, The NGS often had to obtain permission to set the markers, and often we as Surveyors have to ask permission to enter property to use survey markers. I know for strictly just Recovering Markers for Geocaching I have asked several property owners permission to do so. I have also contacted City and County Municipalities as well as the US Coast Guard and the US Army. I felt it best to cover my butt! I have been asked by many a passerby what I am doing, and I have an Official NGS data sheet Close at hand to show them, and then I explain. Everything I do may be cheaper than a ride in a Police Car or a Fine for Putting the Police through an expensive maneuver to deal with me for what is a really harmless hobby.

 

The National News and the Government is reminding the country every day to stay on the look out for suspicious activities and I suppose we really do have to come to the conclusions that this can apply to us. We all have to take all the care we can to play not only by Geocaching's rules but we have to also look at how we play in societies rules as well. I think we do this pretty well for the most part and do it well as a rule, but it may be time to ask ourselves when we play, "what can I do to make this safer for me?" I mean ultimately, I could be the one asked by the police what I am doing. Do I have a good answer?

 

Just a closing thought. I know it may add to the things we carry with us, but perhaps if we print out a copy of our Geocaching User ID, and perhaps the front page of the game website, or the page with the rules for geocaching along with the web address so we can have a form of proof with us that we are affiliated with this sport. I hate to ask Jeremy to do more than he does but perhaps he can code a page that is a link to the signed in member user ID page that will take info from our membership data and place it on a small wallet sized, or credit card sized form we can print out in full color so we can laminate it and carry it in our wallets. It has our user info, the web address for geocaching.com and the official logo. All printable, then maybe we sign it and we take it to the Officemax and have it laminated. This way when we are asked we have something in our wallet that says we are just people having fun. Certainly all the info on the card would be easy to corroborate through the official web site. Yu are the only one who can log in as you, after all...

 

Just my thoughts. I could be way off, but I feel this is worth thinking over.

 

Rob

[+planetrobert]

Try hunting on a train track and you might meet the Sheriff.

those are my favorites

[+Colorado Papa]

I know it may add to the things we carry with us, but perhaps if we print out a copy of our Geocaching User ID, and perhaps the front page of the game website, or the page with the rules for geocaching along with the web address so we can have a form of proof with us that we are affiliated with this sport.

This was discussed in length in this string: Geocaching ID card

[evenfall]

Ted and all,

 

Thanks for that thread. It raises some good points, but perhaps it is time to revisit the discussion a bit more. It would appear that it was discussed last time a bit, and then things sort of trailed off to nothing and that was the end of it. This time we may see that happen again too but either way it is worth the provocative side of causing to consider our own safety yet another time. It begs the questions, how can we make this better and safer? How can we be better ambassadors of our hobby in the community? How can we lift it all up? It is not a debate really, just a kicking around of ideas and that is a good thing.

 

A Geocaching ID would not be a legal ID or take the place of one, but under the stress of a tense moment it would have Geocaching Logo and the web address, your personal user name. The only way you could print one for yourself is by logging into your personal user account. You will have had to verify your email address and all. It is not ID per se, but will show that you have taken steps to officially affiliate yourself with the game so that you can participate in the scoring and the info which only logged in members can have access too. If need be someone could look into the fact as to whether you actually are a geocacher or not. Once they log in, if they were unfamiliar they could then become familiar with what geocachers do. It would verify your story. They could see your score or recoveries, the photos you may have uploaded etc. Another aspect of having the ID card sharing the opportunity to have fun with others. After all, what a cool way to say yeah I am looking for treasure, or a survey marker! Here is the website to go to to learn how to play! Just show them your card. It can serve a few purposes.

 

It would never be a get out of jail free card, just a way of corroborating your reason for being where you are and what you are doing there. It would be no different than a card issued by the Red Cross which states you have been trained in First Aid or CPR, or that you are a Life Guard, No different than a AAA towing card, or affiliation with any other club or group. It is just a piece of paper that has information about what is going on and where more facts can be found.

 

It is obvious we live in interesting times. We have no right to do anything just a granted privilege. We are completely enjoying Geocaching because we are good stewards and friendly people, and that is a good way to be. I just would like to see if there is a way we can better look out for ourselves when we are confused by others who may not be familiar with out brand of fun.

 

For now, I have printed a few pages of the Geocaching Website and I am taking them along, Just in case they are needed to help me prove that I am just having fun.

 

Is it a good idea to familiarize local law enforcement officials and departments with what a Cache looks like? What the Geocaching Cache stickers and decals look like? What we do? Why we like it? How we can help them look and keep watch on the areas we frequent? Can we prevent the Homeland Security oriented agencies from misinterpreting our intentions by partnering with them in ways that show them we add value to what they do and to not mistake a cache as a weaponized Ammo Can or Tupperware? (is that person hiding ammo in the woods?) In fact in these times based on the superstitions of homeland security, is hiding an ammo can as a cache container even a good idea? I mean it is an item that comes from the military side of things. Could it be misconstrued or send a wrong message? We get what we negotiate.

 

As I said yesterday, and I still think it best, feel free to let people know why you are where you are and what you are doing. This is a time, or instance when asking permission in advance is easier than asking forgiveness. You may convert them to geocacher in the process, and it may keep you out of trouble! :-) It really does come down to us, one on one, and it sure beats the alternative! It is post 9/11 and we are living around people who feel a lot of fear. I too could be mistaken by someone who views all people through the eyes of fear, and I want every resource I can get to justify my actions when my actions are somehow misinterpreted. I sense I could be misinterpreted even easier after the headline news of today. That is just my choice, I don't want to curtail my enjoyment just because people don't understand my form of fun. I am pretty sure that people who are up to no good will want nothing to do with offering an explanation to anyone, they will just want to get away. We have nothing to hide other than that which we are trying to find! :-) As an alternative, can do nothing too. Not that we can prevent every bad thing, but either way, this can happen again.

 

Edited to say, please have fun, be careful and stay safe!

 

Rob

Edited October 30, 2004 by evenfall

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

[Bill93]

I don't see much good in a cacher's or benchmarker's ID card.

 

I carry pictures of benchmarks, data sheets, and an email I received from NGS about one of my reports, as evidence that I'm doing something useful.

[evenfall]

Bill,

 

Yeah, I know. I was thinking it would be something that would help some people. It would be compulsory, something a person could print off themselves, for free, only if they wanted. Something that would help them explain if needed. Carry only if they wanted. A way to help some people say, "thats my story and I'm sticking to it" as if they needed to...

 

I only benchmark hunt and as a surveyor, well that is pretty plausible for me. I mean it is in my Job Description. I also know I can still be run over by a car while wearing safety orange. But if I was a geocacher and I was perhaps wearing military surplus camos because they are good cargo pants, and I happened to look a bit off in some neighborhood as I was rummaging through an Ammo Can that is sort of hidden, oh, say near a public school. I know my own neighbors and they are aware of who lives here and who doesn't. I know they watch and so I assume all neighbors watch pretty much anywhere anymore. Who knows who will look intimidating enough to cause someone to give the cops a phone call. I wonder what a law enforcement officer would think? I mean of course they would not profile me and wonder a thing right? They were just stopping by to see what a strangely dressed person wearing paramilitary clothing was doing in an ammo can in the brush near a school.

 

Heheheh

 

I bet I would get asked some tough questions, but hey. It is starting to look a lot like an old Bugs Bunny Cartoon from the get go... Heheheh. It was just a thought. Not a rule or anything. I don't want more rules, I just want everyone to be safe and have fun. It was just a way to perhaps help. Maybe some officers would not care, maybe some would listen. It was just that two different cities in our country used rather excessive force on a geocache within 2 days time, and then the terrorists made another announcement.

 

We live in interesting times.

 

It's all good. I am going to have fun anyway.

 

Rob

[Z15]

What if you were driving by old cemetery one day and you saw these 2 guys digging, one is dressed in old army fatigues and looks like a bum, they other looks kind of goofy and walking gingerly around looking a head stones!

 

Would you think they were surveyors?

 

Well they were, looking for an section corner that was buried for more than 75 yrs. I was not one of them but I know them. As one of them told me, you should have seen that state trooper spin his car around and come flying back to see what the h--- were were doing. The bum looking guy was the professional Surveyor. Another crew member was pulling up with the suburban at the same time the state trooper was and he said they looked liked grave robbers from the road.

Edited October 31, 2004 by elcamino

[evenfall]

Ha Ha, That is good Mike!

 

Yup, and in this day and age I would hope that the person who is being quizzed has a dadgum good answer for the trooper too! I laugh but it is like asking to be profiled badly. If they were not able to walk their talk, there would have been little keeping them from a ride in the cruiser. The suburban may have been the trump card! Some guys can look pretty shoddy in an old set of Filson tin pants and coat too... You never wash them, in fact they say you shouldn't... Boy they can get to looking bad. Heheheh

 

Just yesterday I was looking for a second order triangulation with 3 RM's and an azimuth in a neighborhood watch neighborhood. I put my vest on and knocked on a few doors prior to proceeding. One lady grilled me pretty hard too. She did ask me if I had some sort of ID... I said I had a drivers license and I had a clipboard with some datasheets but beyond that, she was going to have to take my word. I don't blame her, it is her turf, not mine. But I did get to do my thing unimpeded. People go from looking at you funny to ignoring you. She wound up walking her dog and asking me more questions about the survey marks. One RM was monumented in her back porch step and she had been stepping over it for years. She had no idea. Now she does.

 

Rob

[Z15]

Got another story.

 

One of our techs (Jon) was in a local sub-division looks for some NGS bench marks. He parked his state owned (and signed) truck and was walking around looking. As he is coming back to the truck, he see's this guy looking in the windows etc. So never being a person to not to start a controversy, he yells at the guy to get away from his truck. They have a few words and Jon drives off in his truck.

 

Next day, the party chief gets a call on the radio to phone in to headquarters. Its about Jon and his run-in with the guy looking into his truck. Turns out the guy was off-duty city police chief who lived there, who in turn told the mayor who in turn called the governors office, who in turn called the dept. wanting to know who and what the he-- this guy was doing in that sub-division anyhow, cop had written down license plate. Monumental problem for the party chief trying to explain why they needed a BM this far off a state highway (GPS control point). He had to go and apologize to that police chief for the conduct of his employee.

 

This same tech, drove thru a MacDonald's drive-thru to get coffee only he forgot he was pulling a high profile arrow board used on the X-way and jammed it under the awning and shut down the drive thru for a day. All this in one weeks time. What a guy, he drove every boss he had crazy....

Edited October 31, 2004 by elcamino