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An Unhappy Sheriff


jeff35080

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mihaivan, It's been a busy week.

 

However I'm not sure it's practical to create a file for every cache from the caching listing organizations which are now up to 4 active and 3 in development that I know of.

 

In the end I think it will be easier for them to work with local active caching organizations who can be available with a single call. Better still their own members can and will get bit by the caching bug. Now it's radio call away. We are getting there.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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So, we should file a flight plan with the authorities everytime we do something they're not doing? Add more rules and guidelines? Let's get Homeland Security to write the rules for us.

 

Let the world turn. Go geocaching. :mad:

 

Edit: Oh yeah...and use common sense!

Edited by sept1c_tank
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Well, this is my first post on this topic, but I just cannot keep from adding my 2 cents.

 

That's a lot of words, more than I really want to read. Skimming through it seems like you want to add a few new rules and some red tape to the cache approval process.

 

No more rules are needed.

The cache approval process is just fine the way it is.

 

This was an isolated incident, no need to revamp the game.

 

:mad:

OK my two cents, I've been lurking long enough! First of all I would like to lend my support to CookCrew. Also, I agree with Criminal (did I really say that??). I think that public education is the next step. Perhaps the article in Parade magazine on Nov 7th will help.

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Unfortunately these things happen. While the idea of Groundspeak or the local approver notifing LEOs of area caches is, at least on paper, a fine thing, can you imagine the amount of time and effort needed to do that? I'm sure that Jeremy has alot of very important things that he and his staff need to do on a day to day basis that more than likely result in long hours both in and out of the office. The approvers, who are volenteers, are often backlogged with caches needing their attention and really don't need the added burden of having to forward every cache they see to a third party.

If you really feel that changes need to be made in the way we and Groundspeak function, I'd suggest you direct your thoughts to TPTB.

 

Wulf

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Unfortunately these things happen. While the idea of Groundspeak or the local approver notifing LEOs of area caches is, at least on paper, a fine thing, can you imagine the amount of time and effort needed to do that? I'm sure that Jeremy has alot of very important things that he and his staff need to do on a day to day basis that more than likely result in long hours both in and out of the office. The approvers, who are volenteers, are often backlogged with caches needing their attention and really don't need the added burden of having to forward every cache they see to a third party.

If you really feel that changes need to be made in the way we and Groundspeak function, I'd suggest you direct your thoughts to TPTB.

 

Wulf

Actually I was thinking that the entire process would be automated. Once it gets on the public database, then a program can fire off the information and attach the photos to the email. No manual intervention required.

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We don't need to re-invent the wheel.

 

We have no control over how people who find our caches or see us caching will react. Thank goodness the person who called the police didn't decide to "handle things" themselves. When vigilante justice comes into play, things turn tragic in a hurry.

 

We just need to use some extra care in placing our hides. If the area has high pedestrian traffic, a micro is probably more suitable. Save the ammo cans and PVC for caches in the woods.

Edited by MMACH 5
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The area I live and work in has a county pop of just over 85,000. I work as a deputy as well. I am aware of 2 times someone has seen or found a cache and called it in a suspicious.

I have let most of patrol know about caching and told them and the swat comander that they can contact me if they think they have one in question.

I know this would not work for larger agencies but for ours so far its working good.

Also the local news has done an artical on it as well. Hopefully it let the public know that were not a buch of crazies.

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Well this is upsetting.

 

From the Marion Chronicle Tribune (a local paper).

 

It's almost a week later and they STILL have the facts wrong and spending time to slam geocaching...

 

From an editoiral feature they run each week call Cheers and Boos...

 

<<A BOO for Upland resident David Cook, who trespassed onto private property as part of a so-called game and left a suspicious package on the property, resulting in unnecessary hassles for law-enforcement authorities and worries for the property owners. Cook left a gray plastic container on the property of a Blackford County restaurant as part of a GPS location game affiliated with an Internet Web site. As it turned out, the box contained harmless junk, but no one knew that at the time. That came after a police bomb squad was called in to detonate the box. In this post-9/11 world, stunts such as this are uncalled for. Playing so-called adventure games is fine, but use common sense. That means don't trespass, and don't leave suspicious packages stashed about.>>

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Well this is upsetting.

 

From the Marion Chronicle Tribune (a local paper).

Good grief....think they'll print a retraction?

 

I'm also curious....do they carry Parade in their Sunday edition?

 

Bret

 

Not a retraction. Why would they? But if they're raking over the story again they could update the facts. It's just sloppy journalism.

 

Look at how riddled the above quote is.

 

The guy didn't 'place' the box there. It was already there.

And he wasn't tresspassing. He had the owner's permission.

There was no need to blow up the cache because the contents were 'unknown'

They had the guy who 'placed' standing right there to explain what was in it.

 

I mean the Chronicle Tribuine is a scant 12 miles from the Thin Lizzy. And enough people emailed them (including myself) with corrections.

 

This was published five days after the first story. As my home town paper where I grew up I'm really disappointed in the CT.

 

Yes they carry the Parade.

Edited by jollybgood
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The solution to this private/commercial property cache problem is simple:

 

Before you even start looking, go inside and introduce yourself to whichever employees are on duty at that time, hand them a geocaching brochure, and ask them if they mind if you play a game which involves you looking around for a little box of trinkets in the bushes and under the replica train. Get them to say OK.

 

When you're on private property, get permission for the hunt. Don't rely on the person that initially gave permission for the hide to be there or to have told anyone else about the game. The permission for the hide could have been given two years ago and that manager and those employees might be long gone.

 

On private property, Ask permission to find. Every time.

It's really just common courtesy.

 

If the bomb squad shows up, you can point to the employees and say "They all told me it was OK to play this game here."

 

If there's no one to ask, come back later or go look for a different cache.

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On private property permission to seek is implied in the permission to place the cache. Unless the cache owner fails utterly to explain jack to the land owner. However when you can't be discete when looking it's easy enough to say hello or drive on by.

 

For my private property caches I ran the gauntlet so that the owners knew what was going on. They asked all kinds of questions to understand geocaching and what exactly I was asking of them.

 

The editorial is laughable. You need at least some good information to be credible. However the larger audience doesn't know any better so they will have some success with it.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Well, I am not a lawyer, but if a paper prints false information about you that is damaging to your reputation, then isn't that libel? Or is it slander? Anyway, never mind the retraction. Hire a lawyer and bring them to court. I normally don't even think that such legal activities are really very productive, but the information is SO wrong, then do need to get their hand slapped on that one.

 

And also, you may have private property, but if you have a business on it that is open to the public, then unless you post certain areas as off limits, then you are essentially considered "public property" or a "public" place and you do not need explicit permission to be on the property. Do you ask permission to enter your grocery store? Since this was an "ice cream" parlor, I don't think you need permission to be in an unposted area of the property. I think there are some other issues like business hours, but again, I am not a lawyer, and I think that is an oversimplification, but at least SOME of the stuff is right :rolleyes:

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I was in a situation last week that was similar but was handled much better. I was geocaching in Houston, TX when I noticed a police officer approaching. I waited for him knowing that he wanted to know what I was doing there. I was in an area that had been trashed and I had just left another trashy item there. I explained what I was doing and showed him the cache page etc. I also showed the officer the cache itself. In this case the police officer did not overreact. He listened and became informed. After we had discussed geo-caching for a while the conversation turned to what GPS I would suggest he purchase. I assume from this that we now not only have a better informed police officer in that area, but will soon have a new member.

 

:rolleyes:

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Well, I am not a lawyer, but if a paper prints false information about you that is damaging to your reputation, then isn't that libel? Or is it slander?

Printed falsehoods are libel. Spoken falsehoods are slander. I doubt a lawyer could do anything because they would have to prove that there was some damage has occurred. I believe it would be more practicle for people to write a mountain of letters to journalist and to his editor.

 

That should fix their wagon.

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Well, at least the over-reactions aren't just limited to geocaches:

 

Nashua Police bomb squad blows up suspicious chicken

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Cachers need to be mindful of the placement of their caches - keeping them away from high foot traffic and places with too many eyes.

 

If these events continue to show up in the news. The public will have to learn to live with these incidents.

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Well, at least the over-reactions aren't just limited to geocaches:

 

Nashua Police bomb squad blows up suspicious chicken

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Cachers need to be mindful of the placement of their caches - keeping them away from high foot traffic and places with too many eyes.

 

If these events continue to show up in the news. The public will have to learn to live with these incidents.

Uh... :rolleyes:

 

I can't say with COMPLETE certainty, but I'm pretty sure the styrofome cooler full of chicken parts was not left at the apartment complex by a geocacher.

Edited by MMACH 5
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I just sent the following Letter to the Editor of the Chronicle-Tribune. Comments welcome.

 

To The Editor:

 

I’m writing today to address an article published in your Saturday, October 30th, 2004 issue, under the heading “Some boos and cheers for recent events - News brings pats on the back, raps on the knuckles”. Specifically, regarding the item stating the following:

 

“A BOO for Upland resident David Cook, who trespassed onto private property as part of a so-called game and left a suspicious package on the property, resulting in unnecessary hassles for law-enforcement authorities and worries for the property owners. Cook left a gray plastic container on the property of a Blackford County restaurant as part of a GPS location game affiliated with an Internet Web site. As it turned out, the box contained harmless junk, but no one knew that at the time. That came after a police bomb squad was called in to detonate the box. In this post-9/11 world, stunts such as this are un-called for. Playing so-called adventure games is fine, but use common sense. That means don't trespass, and don't leave suspicious packages stashed about.”

 

Several misstatements and unfortunate inferences are made, which should be corrected, to prevent the general public from forming the wrong opinion regarding the activity/ sport known as GEOCACHING.

 

First, it is NOT correct that Mr. Cook trespassed onto private property. The owner of the business has stated that he gave permission to hide the cache at that location, and was allowing geocachers to enter his property for the purpose of hunting the cache. Unfortunately, the owner was not present at this time, and may not have informed some of his employees about the activity. Those employees, RIGHTFULLY SO, reported what they felt was suspicious behavior to the proper authorities. Mr. Cook was just unlucky enough to be perceived to represent a possible threat, when he wasn’t. Again, he was doing nothing illegal, just unusual enough to attract unwanted attention.

 

Secondly, the use of the term “so-called game”, with it’s pejorative connotations, was inappropriate, in my opinion. The game/ sport of Geocaching is a growing, well established, legal, wholesome, family-friendly activity, complete with rules and regulations, organized oversight, big corporate sponsors, and well established legal and environmental ethics.

 

Geocaching is done within the law, and with the permission of land owners and land managers. It is enjoyed by over 13,500 registered participants, from all walks of life. Over 127,000 caches are currently placed in 211 countries. I personally know law enforcement officers, firefighters, retirees, ministers, business owners, community leaders, and a host of wholesome families who enjoy geocaching, and who would not even consider breaking any laws. Geocaching is often taught to scouting groups as part of orienteering, and is undertaken by school classes as part of math and science studies. This is not some “fringe” activities done by swarthy, senseless scofflaws, as seems to be the notion of the writer.

 

Another inaccuracy is that Mr. Cook “left a suspicious package” at the site. The container in question was already located there, and had been since July 10th, and had been found by at least 8 other geocachers (without incident) during that time. Mr. Cook FOUND the container there, exchanged tokens in it, and signed it’s logbook, then replaced the container as he found it.

 

Still another incorrect statement was that “no one knew” at the time that the box was harmless. When Mr. Cook was detained by authorities at the site, he explained the game, detailed the contents of the box, and even offered to open it for them to reassure them it was not a threat. While I can understand the authorities apprehension in accepting him at his word, several things might have been done to verify his truthfulness, including checking the internet site to confirm that there was indeed a cache placed there. This alone would have shown that his story was believable, as well as provided information about the cache’s placement, how long it had been there, and how many other cachers had visited it before.

 

Despite the information that was available to them, the box was destroyed as a precaution. I DO NOT fault officials for doing this for the safety of all involved, but it is not fair to state that “no one knew” the box was harmless.

 

No “stunt” was undertaken, and Mr. Cook was only doing what thousands of people do every day around the country, and around the world. Mr. Cook, nor his fellow geocachers, deserve the scorn or public humiliation of your so-called “Boo”. The only thing “un-called for” here, is the tone and inaccuracy of the article.

 

No blame should be placed on either Mr. Cook, the citizens who reported the incident, or the Sheriff’s Department for rightfully taking precautions to protect public safety.

 

Many safeguards are already in place to help minimize these misunderstandings. Geocachers are encouraged to use “friendly-looking” containers, complete with labels explaining what the container is, and where to get more information on the web. Caches are not allowed in areas that might reasonably pose a concern, or be seen as a possible threat, including areas around bridges, active railways, airports, etc. Cache owners need to secure permission from land owners before placing caches on private property, and are asked to contact appropriate governmental agencies, regarding their policies about placing caches on public lands, getting permission where required.

 

Many land managers welcome geocaching on the properties they maintain, as an approved land use, and many of those same land managers will attest to the good stewardship demonstrated by the cachers that frequent these parks.

 

Cachers often take it upon themselves to educate local officials about their activity, to prevent situations like this one from arising. Contrary to your article’s conclusion, most cachers ARE using common sense, are NOT trespassers, and are diligently working to prevent these types of incidents. We are all painfully aware of the new reality of terrorism in America, and most of us are working hard to provide the necessary safeguards, while continuing to enjoy our pastime in a safe and legal manner.

 

What IS needed is for the geocaching community to do a better job of communicating with law enforcement and the general public about our sport, to help prevent misunderstanding in the future, as more and more people enjoy this activity. Those efforts are currently underway. As we say in the geocaching community “We’re workin’ on it.”

 

We invite the public to learn more about geocaching at the following web sites:

www.geocaching.com and www.geocacher-u.com

But be warned, a visit to these sites might be all it takes to get you hooked!!

 

Note: Next Sunday’s Parade Magazine will include an enlightening article on geocaching.

 

Mark Shanks

611 N. Will St.

Shelbyville, IL 62565

mshanks@mac.com

(217) 369-1187

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...The editorial is laughable.  You need at least some good information to be credible.  However the larger audience doesn't know any better so they will have some success with it.

It is laughable, and putting this in perspective, the larger audience is a relatively minute portion of the general public.

 

This situation in unfortunate, but any damage to the image of geocaching is negligble; if the editorial had appeared in Parade magazine, that would be a different situation.

 

Assuming Parade publishes a favorable portrayal of geocaching next week in their supplement to the Chronicle Tribune, I'm sure there will be some red-faced journalists sashaying around the Marion breakfast counters Monday morning. :P:D

Edited by sept1c_tank
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I just sent the following Letter to the Editor of the Chronicle-Tribune. Comments welcome.

 

To The Editor:

Thanks RiverExplorer! Excellent letter. I am preparing my own letter but you put things more eloquently than I could have.

 

There was only one reporter that contacted me at home the day it all happend and they were from the Chronicle-Tribune. It seems like they could have gotten a couple of facts right. The got my name rightbut it went downhill from there.

 

I do hope next week's Parade article is supportive of geocaching.

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Geocaching is done within the law, and with the permission of land owners and land managers. It is enjoyed by over 13,500 registered participants, from all walks of life.

Isn't there a typo here? I believe that number must be at least an order of magnitude larger or even more. It might be the number of premium members but the number of registered users of gc.com must be over 150,000.

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Sorry about that. I was going by the About Geocaching page stats, but it seems I misread it. That is the number of unique account holders logging in the last 7 days. I'd be happy to send a corrected number to the Chronicle-Tribune if someone could provide it to me.

 

RiverExplorer

Edited by RiverExplorer
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Here is another article regarding the "incident" from the Star Press. A supportive Editorial, believe it or not.

 

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/5/028943-5405-007.html

 

The Star Press in Muncie, IN has been the only news source in the area that has been presenting geocaching in a positive light.

 

Incidently, the bomb squad called in to dispose of the cache was from Muncie.

 

Does anyone know how I can find out if the prosecutor is considering charges or not?

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I'm pretty new here but have been following this story with interest. I have to say i'm very glad that this most recent article took a much more geocaching friendly view than most of the previous ones i've read.

 

Being from Canada the terrorist paranoia isn't anywhere near as prevalent but I do definately agree with the last line in that article. It's a sad time when we curtail such enjoyable and wholesome hobbies as geocaching as a result of "what might happen"

 

My heart definately goes out to the poor cacher who got caught up in all this. For what it's worth I hope nothing else bad comes of it.

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I like the point this implies. Zillions of dollars spent on homeland security, briefing law officials, trying to ferret out what is really happening so that law enforcement folks can be alerted...

 

...and these federal types can't even detect something like geocaching that is right under their nose which could be misconstrued as something bad, also detect the need to explain the difference between that and a real bomb, how to look up a cache on this site... and then include THAT in their briefings.

 

(snarky paragraph of criticism of feds deleted because I'm paranoid)

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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Through some.... how shall I say this... contacts. I have learned that it was not a .50 caliber bullet fired at the geocache in question, but was in fact a .50 caliber disruptor.

 

Basically, these disruptors have a .50 caliber bore and are fairly basic cannons. You unroll a condom (yes, a condom) and place it into the bore of the disruptor, then you fill-up the condom with water. As you can imagine, it's basically a giant water balloon inside a .50 caliber steel tube. A charge that looks somewhat like a shotgun shell is used to propel the water charge towards the offending item... in this case a geocache.

 

The explosive force of the water hitting the device hopefully disrupts the device without causing a detonation i.e. it blows the wires off of an electrical source that could be used to detonate a charge.

 

It appears that the news reports simply did not understand that it was a .50 caliber disprutor that was used and was fired at the geocache, not a .50 caliber bullet.

 

I hope this tidbit of info that I have acquired might help everyone understand that no bullets were fired at the geocache..... simply a very powerful water balloon. I have had the opportunity to participate with one of our EOD members in using a similar device... it's very cool what you can do with a condom filled with water :rolleyes:

Sounds like a more accurate version of the funnelator we used to take up on the dorm roof in college. You could launch a water balloon over 100 yards with that sucker. Of course it was more of a morter launch trajectory than a rifle shot. :laughing:

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okay i read the article concerning the 50 calibre assassination of a cache. if i understood it correctly when they refered to tallying the cost and contacting the prosecutor...does that mean that they may try to hold mr cook legally liable.

questions:

1.) just how assinine is this

2.) does anyone realise how complicated this could become based on the policies of homeland seurity and the patriot act.

3.) what if any legal recourse does any cacher have in the event they get involved in a situation similar to this

4.) what do we do when our government starts to ban geocaching due to incidents like this one

and finally....

if it comes down to it what can we as geocachers do to turn this around.

i love geocaching...but i fear that eventually it will come down to geocaching being banned in the interest of safety etc.

i am sick to death of geocaching being the scapegoat for terrorists...it seems that we now must really be careful about our actions....and anything we do is subject to the scrutiny of law enforcement...and yet drug dealers sell crack cocaine, murders still kill people, but someone who hides a cache has to find out it was destroyed by a 50 calibre bullet.....i used to think i had a clear understanding.

regards

archie

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i went to the geocaching u webpage and tried to download the brochure. i have adobe acrobat 6.0 on my pc. the download page for that brochure will not open to allow me to download the brochure.

any suggestions to help me with this problem...and if neccessary could some one send me a copy of the brochure to my email addy. im pretty sure i could copy it from there.

my email address is:

archeangelsk2002@yahoo.com

any help would be appreciated

regards

archie

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It they had only checked with the owner or whomever gave Permission to let the cache be placed there.

 

I find it great that people are using caution in these times but I also think that sometimes things are not investigated closely enough before reaching conclusions.

 

It's not always that easy.

 

As others have said, the owner could be one of three, out of town, or whatever.....in those cases, what then?

 

The police have to err on the side of caution for the greater protection.

 

shadango

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i am sick to death of geocaching being the scapegoat for terrorists...it seems that we now must really be careful about our actions....and anything we do is subject to the scrutiny of law enforcement...

We are not the only ones.....men with dark skin and beard are targetted as terrorists, as is anyone buying large amounts of fertilizer....people who act suspiciously will be targeted....period......Its human nature.

 

Look, these days you basically have to follow the good old rule of "Don't do anything to make yourself look suspicious"....

 

If you DO, then it is at your own risk.

 

The terrorists on 911 stole 4 planes...yet they didn't get caught...was it because they were acting suspicious?? Apparantly not. Oddly, we might learn a bit from them on that front.

 

No one is forcing us to play this game......and it is certainly not a case of life and death or livelihood where we must play it....its a game.

 

The solution to this issue is that folks need to have a little more common sense on hides.

 

If an ammo box is hidden in the middle of a large woods, off the beaten path, it is unlikely to cause folks to panic.

 

If an ammo box is hidden next to a police station or airport, it IS likely to cause a panic.

 

Now, with that being said, is it the fault of the police for following protocol or is it the hider's fault for not looking at how the cache could be percieved by some....?

 

We know the rules of the game as well as the state of our world going into this game......."it's just a game" doesn't give us the right to throw common sense and respect for others out the window.

Edited by shadango
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Following protocol is not an excuse either. That is what the guards in the Nazi death camps were doing. It isn't that geocachers shouldn't be a bit more aware either. I really think that both need to do something different. Sure geocaching is just a game, but as has been repeated so many times, taking away our freedoms, even if it is the freedom of playing a game means that the terrorists have won. If our only goal was to eliminate the loss of life, then why don't we just invite them to come over and take over the country. No loss of life involved. But then look out after that. Do you think we would be able to play the geocacher game at all? I am not sure it was he who originally said it, but I think that Churchill once said the "He who would give up freedom for the sake of security deserves neither". Protocols need to take that into account, and if they don't then they are just plain wrong and need to be adjusted. If the poeple's attitude does not include that, then they are not the same freedom loving people that founded this country, and from that you can draw your own conclusions.

 

By definition, a terrorist deals with "terror". He doesn't need to plant bombs or demolish something every day to have people live in fear (terror). That is his goal and he wins when that happens. If we take away the fear, then they lose. Of no matter how many bombs they plant we do not live in fear, then they cannot win. Take a look around. No matter how badly we trounce Saddam in Iraq, the terrorists are still winning because of the fear that grips everyone in this country as exhibited by this incident, and so many others that don't have anything to do with geocaching.

 

What about the entire plane load of people that had to go through decontamination procedures, including being showered in a temporary de-con facility set up by the hazmat team because someone saw a white powder on the bread being served on board and that was considered "suspicious" because it could have been anthrax or some other biological or chemical agent. So now flour they put on rolls to keep them from sticking together is suspicious. But then they were only following protocol.

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Following protocol is not an excuse either. That is what the guards in the Nazi death camps were doing. It isn't that geocachers shouldn't be a bit more aware either. I really think that both need to do something different. Sure geocaching is just a game, but as has been repeated so many times, taking away our freedoms, even if it is the freedom of playing a game means that the terrorists have won. If our only goal was to eliminate the loss of life, then why don't we just invite them to come over and take over the country. No loss of life involved. But then look out after that. Do you think we would be able to play the geocacher game at all? I am not sure it was he who originally said it, but I think that Churchill once said the "He who would give up freedom for the sake of security deserves neither". Protocols need to take that into account, and if they don't then they are just plain wrong and need to be adjusted. If the poeple's attitude does not include that, then they are not the same freedom loving people that founded this country, and from that you can draw your own conclusions.

 

By definition, a terrorist deals with "terror". He doesn't need to plant bombs or demolish something every day to have people live in fear (terror). That is his goal and he wins when that happens. If we take away the fear, then they lose. Of no matter how many bombs they plant we do not live in fear, then they cannot win. Take a look around. No matter how badly we trounce Saddam in Iraq, the terrorists are still winning because of the fear that grips everyone in this country as exhibited by this incident, and so many others that don't have anything to do with geocaching.

 

What about the entire plane load of people that had to go through decontamination procedures, including being showered in a temporary de-con facility set up by the hazmat team because someone saw a white powder on the bread being served on board and that was considered "suspicious" because it could have been anthrax or some other biological or chemical agent. So now flour they put on rolls to keep them from sticking together is suspicious. But then they were only following protocol.

"Following protocol is not an excuse either. That is what the guards in the Nazi death camps were doing. "

 

I would say that murdering people is a lot different than blowing up a box or stopping an internet game.... :anibad: But point taken......True, protocol shouldn't over-rule good sense. But unfortunately we live in a world that punishes people for thinking outside of the box, especially in the "law and order" realm. Protocol is there for a reason....if the protocol is defective it should be repaired. That way everyone is theoretically protected. But we know that isn't reality.....

 

I guess it really is perspective.

 

I dont view them blowing up a box as taking my freedom, I look at it as possibly protecting someone else's. If the game starts to create too many issues, then that has to be looked at....SOMEONE has to pay for the ramifications, even if they are caused by "paranoid" people "panicking".

 

My neighbor called the cops on me after I stopped in front of her house to have a word with her after she almost ran me off the road. She told the police that I was in "road rage". So they had to followup. They said she came across as irrational and that they just had to followup.

 

From her perspective, I guess maybe I may have scared her (though not as much as when she almost ran me off the road)....so the cops did what they had to do....she has as much right as I do...and unless a crime has occurred everything is done.....

 

As a country that is only beginning to feel the effects of terrorism, sure there will be incidents like the one about the flour you mention and more like what I went through....becuase people ARE scared and on the defensive whetehr you and I think that is "normal" or not..........there is a learning curve for all.

 

But again, better to err on the side of caution, no matter how silly it may seem to some.....

 

We live in a country where many people want the government to ONLY be involved in their lives where it benefits them...people who want to pick and choose what we do not have to take responsibility for.

 

Some folks I know favor government's intervention into the health care market yet they recoil in terrror when I would suggest that the government might then want control of their guns (true story)....You can't have it both ways. Multiply that by millions of people each with their own agendas and theories on how it *should* be.

 

Kind of scarey, really......... :)

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For whatever it's worth, I am a policeman and I know all of the locations of caches in my city. Whenever we get a call of a suspicious person near one of the sites, I take the call. I am the only cacher in my department. It's nice that I am in a position that I can prevent things from getting blown out of proportion. Too bad every department in the country can't have one cacher working all the time.

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