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An Unhappy Sheriff


jeff35080

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Through some.... how shall I say this... contacts. I have learned that it was not a .50 caliber bullet fired at the geocache in question, but was in fact a .50 caliber disruptor.

 

Basically, these disruptors have a .50 caliber bore and are fairly basic cannons. You unroll a condom (yes, a condom) and place it into the bore of the disruptor, then you fill-up the condom with water. As you can imagine, it's basically a giant water balloon inside a .50 caliber steel tube. A charge that looks somewhat like a shotgun shell is used to propel the water charge towards the offending item... in this case a geocache.

 

The explosive force of the water hitting the device hopefully disrupts the device without causing a detonation i.e. it blows the wires off of an electrical source that could be used to detonate a charge.

 

It appears that the news reports simply did not understand that it was a .50 caliber disprutor that was used and was fired at the geocache, not a .50 caliber bullet.

 

I hope this tidbit of info that I have acquired might help everyone understand that no bullets were fired at the geocache..... simply a very powerful water balloon. I have had the opportunity to participate with one of our EOD members in using a similar device... it's very cool what you can do with a condom filled with water ;)

Good information. This presents an entirely new perspective on the condom issue as it relates to geocaching (the issue of condoms in caches). Adults can now explain to their children that those things are used by the police to disarm bombs. They are weapons and have no place in a cache.

 

I'm sure, now, I will view the spent ones found sometimes in the same vicinity of geocaches differently as well. It could be a sign that the cache is no longer there and archived. ;):lol:

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Another local report which includes a video of caches in nearby Muncie, IN.

 

http://www.newslinkindiana.com/news/00000004649.html

 

In the video this reporter actually finds two geocaches and takes one to the local sheriff.

I hope he got a user name so he could log on the site that it needs archived since he took it out of his hiding place and home with him. Someone should yell at him. He's not trading up! ;)

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Here's something to consider when talking to a reporter and looking for a positive spin - anybody else pick up on the 3 or 4 cache logs that mentioned stopping at the nearby businesses and partaking of their offerings? What business wouldn't love to have a reason for more traffic hidden near them? Just another of the many positive aspects to this game.

 

Clear containers, clearly labeled with contact information would be a step in the right direction, but if you are going to hide stuff in such a highly visible location, why not make it a micro? A film canister full of ANYTHING is unlikely to be regarded as a threat. (you explosive experts can chime in on the power of a film container full of volatile unobtainium - but if somebody has access to that stuff, would they be likely to waste it blowing up an ice cream shop?). By making the cache a multi you can hide the box o' treasure somewhere less visible. You get to show off the special place you found, you get a cache that's easier to hide in the visible place, and you reduce the risk of this sort of thing occurring.

 

My $.02

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To paraphrase a line by Nicholas Cage in 'Raising Arizona':

'Well, here's what's right, and there's what's right, and never the twain shall meet.'

 

I have two downtown caches. One was originally placed in a clear plastic container. Today, I went and replaced the container for the other one to a clear plastic Rubbermaid container. Because when all is said and shakes out, I just feel badly that Mr Cook is going through all this hoopla just because he was enjoying an innocent game with his children in a public place. I would hate for anything like that to happen to another cacher who comes to seek one of my inner city caches.

 

While all this is terribly unfortunate in today's political climate, it is preventable.

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Fly46 said: TN Authorities have decided that Geocachers are great allies in the war against terrorism. Geocachers and terrorists look simelar in behavior, equipment, etc... The difference is that cachers are good people. So, they have asked us to look for suspicious people because, well, we know who ISNT a part of our caching group. We know that if we come across someone whether or not they're one of us.

 

I think this is the key. We have to be above it all. We need to be watching over our communities. We have to take the time to educate with brochures and presentations in our community... So that we always look like the good guys, because we are.

 

Perhaps as part of this geocaching community we need to stop acting stealthly and start wearing a "uniform"; the orange safety vest and yellow trash bag in hand when caching in urban locations. That way we are announcing to the world, we are geocaching, we are picking up trash, we are on neighborhood watch and reporting suspicious activity. Hey we are the good guys. :lostsignal:

 

Personally I would hate to see geocaching limited to remote wooded locations, because I am not much of a hiker anymore. So suburban and city park caching is what I'm into.

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Another local report which includes a video of caches in nearby Muncie, IN.

 

http://www.newslinkindiana.com/news/00000004649.html

 

In the video this reporter actually finds two geocaches and takes one to the local sheriff.

I hope he got a user name so he could log on the site that it needs archived since he took it out of his hiding place and home with him. Someone should yell at him. He's not trading up! :lostsignal:

Video proof the cache was stolen? Cool. Nothing like someone admitting they stole the cache. The reporter made a point. The cache owner should also make a point.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Adults can now explain to their children that those things are used by the police to disarm bombs. They are weapons and have no place in a cache.

 

I'm sure, now, I will view the spent ones found sometimes in the same vicinity of geocaches differently as well. It could be a sign that the cache is no longer there and archived. :unsure::o

Well a missile is a weapon, but it is also being utilized as a shield. On a smaller scale, it's not too farfetched. :lostsignal:

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To paraphrase a line by Nicholas Cage in 'Raising Arizona':

'Well, here's what's right, and there's what's right, and never the twain shall meet.'

 

Hehehe, I have yet to use the word 'twain' in a sentence that didn't include Mark or Shania... good job even if it is paraphrasing. :lostsignal:

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After reading a couple of articles about this incident and relating them to other similiar incidents, it's clear to me that geocaching and law enforcement are going to continue to butt up against one another.

 

It appears that when these containers are reported to the police, the police play it safe and treat it as a bomb. When they discover it isn't a bomb, and the press becomes involved they take the hardline in an attempt to save face. IMO, this is totally expected... how do you think you would feel if you just discovered you blew up what could have been some kid's lunch in front of the local news camera?

 

When law enforcement officers meet up with geocachers it's a different matter altogether. Once they determine you are harmless they let you go on your merry way - in general...

 

Law enforcement is going to continue reacting to calls in this fashion, and I believe we as cachers need to be more responsible in placing caches. Placing a cache in a public area with high foot traffic is just not a good idea, even if you are given permission to place the cache.

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I agree with jdoe. I think the geocaching community needs to rethink the placement of caches especially in hi traffic urban areas. I placed my first cache today in a wooded urban park. J Dub's Sweet Spot I had to park in a hospital parking lot and cross a fairly busy street to hide it. It was in an ammo box and as I got ready to cross the street I thought "hmm...somebody might see me take this into the woods and assume it's a drug stash or something." Fortunately, I had a backpack in my car so I used it to transport the cache into the park. It seemed like overkill at the time, but now I'm glad I did.

 

It sucks that we have to think this way now, but people are a lot more paranoid than they used to be. It's a post 9/11 world for sure. I have found a couple caches in public areas. I got some funny looks from passersby as I dug around in bushes, but I never thought that someone might report me for "suspicious activity". I think from now on for the most part I will stick to caches off the beaten path. I don't want to be part of any police interogations. :lostsignal:

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I'm a little concerned about the sheriff's threat to bill the cacher for his own response. I think there was a case out west (CA or OR, it was discussed once upon a time on this board) involving a cache that was placed on NFS land but too close to a railroad tunnel. Someone on a train saw the cache being replaced and called in his suspicions. Several other trains were stopped, a bomb squad was called, overtime and extra crews for the delayed trains were called, and the cache hider was billed for all of it, both the law enforcement response and all of the private railroad companies' expenses. I'm not even sure if they blew that one up, but the hider still had to go to court, listen to a judge pontificate about whatever he didn't like in that deal (note that this was before any GC.com rules about caches near railroads were in place; I think this was the incident that caused that rule to be written by GC.com), and shell out the fines.

 

In this case, geocachers didn't do anything wrong. We didn't violate anyone's rules. The cache was on private property with the owner's permission. I would really be concerned if either cacher is required to pay for the sheriff's overreaction, or if they even attempt to bill a geocacher for this debacle.

 

Just a side note. Mahan was unopposed in 2002. He's listed as a Republican (I suspect that will be a disappointment for half of us and amusing to the other half). I couldn't find any reference to the length of his term, nor when he was due to stand for reelection.

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First I want to give my encouragement to CookCrew. I'm sorry this was such a horrible ordeal for your family and friends. I hope you decide to keep caching. I will personally go to bat for you to see that you suffer no repercussions from the prosecutor over this.

 

Secondly...to Fly46 about this quote "The sad thing is that if Indiana had decided to be as productive as Tennessee is being it wouldn't be an issue."

 

There are a lot of great cachers in Indiana working to make this a fun and family friendly sport. This was an unfortunate incident that could have happened to anyone...anywhere. I hope you decide to come north sometime and cache in our great state. We would love to have you here!

 

In closing....CapnJackSparrow and LSUFan make a fantastic and "productive" point. This link http://www.geocacher-u.com/resources/brochure.html provides a great resource to use when trying to communicate to non-cachers about this sport.

 

Happy Caching!! Strohem

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Secondly...to Fly46 about this quote "The sad thing is that if Indiana had decided to be as productive as Tennessee is being it wouldn't be an issue."

 

There are a lot of great cachers in Indiana working to make this a fun and family friendly sport. This was an unfortunate incident that could have happened to anyone...anywhere. I hope you decide to come north sometime and cache in our great state. We would love to have you here!

Let me stress that we didn't exactly take an initiative to the government or anything to do this. We have a dedicated group of people, yes, but at the same time, the local government/police force has decided to be smart about it instead of doing stupid stuff like calling in the bomb squad. They've asked us to help them.

 

That statement I made had nothing to do with cachers, it had to do with the powers that be.

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This came in my Homeland Security Briefing today. Yay! I got to explain geocaching at an interdepartmental meeting because of it. :unsure: OK, what's with the "black box" reference? What a yahoo..... :lostsignal:

 

General Sector

26. October 27, Star Press (IN) — Bomb scare turns out to be part of Internet game. An Internet game gone awry forced police to shut down three businesses in Hartford City, IN, and evacuate all employees and customers on Tuesday, October 26. A call came in to police saying that someone had seen an unknown person place a suspicious box under a train on display at an ice cream shop. The box was determined not to be a bomb and the unknown person was located, questioned, and released. It happened because of an Internet game called geocaching. The game is something akin to an on−line scavenger hunt. Someone, anyone, will hide a box somewhere and then place the global positioning system coordinates on the Website at http://www.geocaching.com. Players can then log on, find the coordinates and go looking for the black box. After finding it, the player may remove an item and replace it with a simple trinket, and go back to the Website and log it. Blackford County Sheriff Kevin Mahan said that “People have to understand that I've been to three FBI and CIA briefings in the last two weeks, getting briefed on terrorists and terrorism. They need to find another game.”

Source: http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/0/028...−004.html

Edited by Snoogans
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Has anyone considered a letter-writing and email campaign to the people involved?

 

Perhaps emails and letters from across the country and world will clue these sherrifs and newspapers into the fact that this is a sport enjoyed around the world by families and all sorts of people, who take a direct interest in their local parks and other resources.

 

For the record, the Star Press posted a follow-up story:

 

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/4/028670-2324-004.html

 

They do point out that the hider had permission from the Tin Lizzy owner, but the owner had not informed his employees of the cache and was on a plane to Florida while the incident was occuring.

 

I feel very sorry for cachers in this area -- as well as anyone living there in a small, out-of-the-way town like this, who lives in constant daily fear that their city is the next likely candidate for international terrorism.

 

George Sheridan

Delaware County Sheriff

100 W. Washington St.

Muncie, Indiana 47305

(765) 747-7885

http://www.delawarecountysheriff.org/

 

Kevin Mahan

Blackford County Sheriff

64 N 500 E

Hartford City, Indiana 47348

(765) 348-0930

kmahan@blackfordcounty.com

 

Kevin O'Connor

Staff Reporter

Newslink Indiana

Ball Communication Building

Ball State University

Muncie, IN 47306

(765) 285-9300

(info for news organization)

 

Ric Routledge

Blackford County Reporter

The Star Press

PO Box 2408

Muncie, IN 47307-0408

ricroutledge@hotmail.com

(765) 728-5241

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Seems to me an easyway to aviod this would be for the local Geocaching clubs to step up as the MGS has and offer to teach local law enforcement how to use the web site and a GPSr to determine if what they are dealing with may be a cache.

It's up to them to accept the help, but atleast we tried.

Just my $.02

Edited by Simulatmore
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For the record I am posting my entire corespondence with the Star Reporter here as he seemed to once again leave a lot out ! :lostsignal: Nothing has been edited or changed in any way shape or form . I did as Fly requested and she also has a copy of this .

 

I am not trying to say that some courtesy shouldn't have been shown here . Because I can understand the reaction, I can understand the concern . Precaution is a good thing .I can even applaud the fact that the police responded these were all good things. But when they were talking to Mr Cook and he stated that he was willing to open the box up for them . Why did they not let him ? I have lookrd at the webpage describing the said cache . It states it was placed with permission . Now having met the person that placed the cache there I have to believe he was given permission to do so . Plus I have to ask , just how many terrorist threats has that small town in Indiana had ? Or perhaps any Town in Indiana had ? Are we to live our lives afraid of everything ? Mr Cook , was not the only person to have gone to that location and signed that cache log . He had 4 children with him for gosh sake . When was the last time a terrorist took the kids with them to plant a bomb ? How well can you be sneaky with 4 children climbing round a train piece dinging bells etc?

 

Ric Routledge wrote:

 

> Judy:

> You said the police were unfair by over-racting. But shouldn't the players share some of that? After all, placing a suspicious box in a suspicious place and then having strange people scour the grounds looking for it scared the heck out of the people working there. Shouldn't some courtesy be shown these people?

> RR

>

>> From: Judy <starj@kuntrynet.com>

>> To: Ric Routledge <ricroutledge@hotmail.com>

>> Subject: Re: Bomb scare and Internet Game

>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:06:43 -0500

>>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

>

>

> Subject:

> Re: Bomb scare and Internet Game

> From:

> Judy <starj@kuntrynet.com>

> Date:

> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:06:43 -0500

> To:

> Ric Routledge <ricroutledge@hotmail.com>

>

> Sorry Rick ,

> Judy of TeamTigger here again forgot to mention to you , what you left out of your article is this little bit this is what really has the geocaching community upset as well as his line " you need to get a new game " .

> "Cook said he described the contents of the box and offered to open it but police decided to blow up the container anyway."

>

>

> Ric Routledge wrote:

>

>> Judy:

>> Tell me more. I'm working on a follow-up. Where did you see the story?

>> What is Team Tigger International?

>> How long have you been playing this game?

>> Who and how did it get started?

>> Neither I nor the police know anything about this game, so the more you tell me the more helpful it will be.

>> I'm under some deadline pressure on this.

>> Thanks.

>> Ric R

>>

>>> From: Judy <starj@kuntrynet.com>

>>> To: ricroutledge@hotmail.com

>>> Subject: Bomb scare and Internet Game Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:06:24 -0500

>>>

>>

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

>>

>>

>> Subject:

>> Bomb scare and Internet Game

>> From:

>> Judy <starj@kuntrynet.com>

>> Date:

>> Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:06:24 -0500

>> To:

>> ricroutledge@hotmail.com

>>

>> Hi ,

>> I am writing to you about the article you wrote on the Bomb Scare due to an Internet Game. I would like to request that you look futher into this game . The Website is www.geocaching.com with one g not two . The link to the cache in question is http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...e6-3df55f247e2e

>> I am also including a link to the grounspeak forums which we are discussing this incident at length . You may browse it here http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=82906, but you may have to get yourself a Groundspeak ID its free.

>>

>> It appears to me that the Police involved in this incident were overblowing the whole matter but in you article that was avoided quite nicely . I applaud there efforts at being vigilant against terrorism . But did you know they only Stopped Cook and talked to him , and he was willing to go and open the container for them . They did not need to " shoot it with a bullet" .

>>

>> I just ask that there be some fairness in this matter , no one in our "game" did anything wrong . The statement that we should get a new game is also unfair . Perhaps the officers need to be a little less zellous . I really doubt that that particular area of Indiana would be subject to terroism either.

>> There I have said my peace and pleaded my case .

>> Thank you for consideration.

>> Judy Starbuck

>> aka Star of Team Tigger International

>>

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Seems to me an easyway to aviod this would be for the local Geocaching clubs to step up as the MGS has and offer to teach local law enforcement how to use the web site and a GPSr to determine if what they are dealing with may be a cache.

It's up to them to accept the help, but atleast we tried.

Just my $.02

From past threads were a Bomb Squad member has posted. The only real thing you can do is make it so your caches are not discovered, or not reported as bombs. Your idea is a good one for a lot of reasons but may not help when a cache is reported.

 

Once a team is called protocal takes over. That protocal is probably why the last cache finder was not allowed to just walk up and open the cache. We as cachers know that was the quick and easy solution. The EOD though has become the responsible party. Once that happens things chage and for this there is no page in the manual that says "if it's reported as a geocache the owner or a recent finder can just whip that puppy open and show you it's not a bomb"

 

I recently had a cache phonned in. It's about 6 miles out of town, down a trail, along a pond. Not high risk, not urban, not high traffic. However the cache had been left in the open by someone, someone else found it (it's painted and says "Geocache" on the side) and called it in. I was able to call the sheriffs office and leave a message. The officers called me just after they had left the scene. To paraphrase "We confirmed there were no drugs, and saw that it was part of that geocache game. No problem. Thanks for calling". They also wanted to know how I knew about what was happening so fast.

 

Now why they get phoned in for drugs here and not bombs I don't know. But once the call is made...the decision is out of our hands.

 

By the way, my cache didn't get blown up and It's an ammo can.

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For the record, the Star Press posted a follow-up story:

 

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/4/028670-2324-004.html

 

They do point out that the hider had permission from the Tin Lizzy owner, but the owner had not informed his employees of the cache and was on a plane to Florida while the incident was occuring.

Finally, an article stating they confirmed the owner gave permission for us to play here. That will sure help my cause.

 

One thing that I have found interesting about the whole ordeal is the concern over the storage area next to the cache site.

 

Should self-storage businesses be added to the list of places NOT to place a cache? Just like government buildings, bridges and airports?

 

I am grateful for the overwhelming support the geocaching community has given me with this. This is definitely one group that sticks together.

 

Thanks!!

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Others said the quest may simply be a beautiful view.
Yea, right. Try to get one like that approved under these guidelines. :mad:

 

The game is said to have gotten started several years ago when one hiker left a package along a trail for another hiker.
What history of geocaching did THEY read?!?
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The Upland man said his son and a friend's child removed a magnet and a small metal anvil from the box and left a Hacky Sack and a Superman doll.

 

Good thing CookCrew traded up! ;) Let this be a lesson to all of us. Clean underwear and good trade items because you never know... :mad:

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I live in a small community where I know all the officers by name. Recently, I noticed that the number of caches in my county has grown to 32. Not huge by any means but enough that I thought it was time to fill in the law on geocaching. I recently posted this message in my local organizations forum:

 

I've been thinking for some time now that I should do this and I'm

encouraging you to do the same. Knowing that our activity could

sometimes be seen as suspicious and also knowing that caches in my

county are really on the rise, I decided to meet with the local

sheriff and give him the "geo-rundown".

 

In the day and age that we live in, there are several containers

that could be misconstrued for something dangerous by people who

have no idea what caching is all about. Cachers who don't know that

they are being watched could also been seen as suspicious as they

poke and prod around in the bushes. I just thought it was a good

time to fill in one of the head muggles on geocaching.

 

It was a great meeting, I took a file with me that contained

information about geocaching, a sample cache page and a printout of

a map that showed where all the caches were in Jasper county. I

also included two pages of pictures that showed different kinds of

cache containers and made sure to include some that could be

questionable by the police (such as PVC pipe caches). Ed (the

Sheriff) thought this was very cool and was very receptive to all

the information.

 

I told Ed that since geocaching was growing in this area, he might

get a few calls about suspicious people looking around for something

or calls from someone who found what they thought was something

dangerous. Now, Ed and I are friends and go back a long way. He's

also a big fan of DQ cheeseburgers, so it was easy to walk in the

office and fill him in. Even though you may not know your local

officers, I would encourage you to put together a file about

geocaching and share with with your local law enforcement. Ed has a

meeting scheduled with the rest of his officers next week and says

he will be sharing all the information I gave him.

 

I've kept a copy of everything I put in the file and if anyone would

like to educate someone in there community, just let me know if I

can help. I would be glad to share it.

 

Scoob

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I just now zipped this email off to the reporter. Flattery WILL get you everywhere. :mad:

 

"Greetings, sir.

 

Long story short: I have read your follow-up articles on geocaching. Excellent work! I think you represented both the sherriff's concerns and the geocacher's concerns in a fair and balanced way.

 

Ultimately, I think the problem is with the owner of Tin Lizzy who didn't inform his employees in advance of the cache. The cache-box owner had done right. He asked permission from the owner of Tin Lizzy as per the rightly strict rules of geocaching.com. The bleepin' Tin Lizzy owner should have told his employees about the box and prevented this mess. But then again, there is something we could have done too.

 

I have a cache located near our local international airport, i.e. THE first place to be afraid of strange, metal boxes! It is on the grounds of a LARGE famous-chain hotel, placed with full permission of the manager. This manager promised to tell his employees, but 10 days later, when I told the staff about our project, the staff had never heard anything. THAT could have caused a HECK of an incident! Near a large airport? That would have made this Indiana incident look like a polite tea party.

 

I gave the hotel staffer I talked to a geocaching brochure and told him to have his co-workers look at it and ask the boss about the cache.

 

I will talk to Groundspeak (the managers of geocaching.com) and ask that a new rule be put into place: if you place a cache near a business, don't just trust the manager or owner you talked to. Check with the employees as well TO MAKE SURE the head honcho of the business told them about the cache.

 

For every crisis, there are ways discovered to make things better, IF the participants are willing to look for what can be done. We geocachers will definitely try to make things better from what we have learned here. Thank you for your help. :-)"

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I am not trying to say that some courtesy shouldn't have been shown here . Because I can understand the reaction, I can understand the concern . Precaution is a good thing .I can even applaud the fact that the police responded these were all good things. But when they were talking to Mr Cook and he stated that he was willing to open the box up for them . Why did they not let him ? 

I don't know about you, but when I read the paper, I see terrorists blowing themselves up all the time. These folks come in all shapes, genders, ages etc. If I thought there was the possibility of a box containing a bomb, then I probably wouldn't let anyone open it either. After all, it would accomplish the same thing as far as the terrorist was concerned. As a reasonable person, I wouldn't consider it likely that a bomb would be placed in small town Indiana, but the whole point of terror is that a bomb could be placed anywhere. Look at where the bombs go off in Israel. Most of the time, its in small restraunts or, yes, ice cream shops. Now, let's say this was a legitimate bomb. Would you be all forgiving of the Sheriff because he let someone go and set it off? I don't think so. What is the point of this? You have to cut folks some slack. These folks are trying to prevent another incident like 9-11. The cost of the incident is that they took out a box worth a couple bucks. A new cache can be placed.

 

Now, it teaches us that we need to keep folks informed of what we are doing. That may mean that more caches will be muggled, but as a cache owner, I would rather have that happen than have a squad called out and folks soiling their britches for no good reason.

 

Just a few thoughts,

joe

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The Upland man said his son and a friend's child removed a magnet and a small metal anvil from the box and left a Hacky Sack and a Superman doll.

 

Good thing CookCrew traded up! :mad: Let this be a lesson to all of us. Clean underwear and good trade items because you never know... ;)

It was a greengecko magnet that my son took. Maybe the person who decided to blow up the cache had tried the gecko's "Little Dam Micro" series :huh:

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Well, this is my first post on this topic, but I just cannot keep from adding my 2 cents.

 

If, when the EOD arrives they go according to "protocol", then why isn't checking the location of any geocaches at that location part of that protocol? Many places already use GPS for emergency vehicle routing. It would seem quite easy to make the simple check.

 

A suggestion perhaps. Since we have to use Groundspeak to get all caches approved, I would like to see the following implemented:

 

1) A picture of the cache should be submitted.

2) If it is a multi-cache, all waypoints should be given separately but not as part of the general description that gets published. This would then be kept as part of the permanent record of the cache as well. A picture of each of these should also be provided.

3) When a cache is approved, an email of the cache locations and picture attachments may be sent to the county sheriff where the cache is located. (Multiple counties may have to be notified for some multi-caches.

 

Since this would be done by the "official" organization rather than some shmuck walking in off the street, it would be given the credibility it deserves. The pictures would help them determine if what they are looking at is indeed the cache and not something else like a bomb or drug stash.

 

Any additional agencies that would like to be notified could easily be added and triggered off the coordinates of the cache waypoints. Perhaps to lessen the workload at Groundspeak, they could require the first cache in a specific county to get the necessary email for the notification. If the county does not have email, perhaps the state police could be a substitute. Or just snail mail.

 

The point is, nothing gets approved and published unless the required information is present and forwarded to the law enforcement entity chosen as the clearing house for caches in that location.

 

A few other notes....

I don't think relying on owners / managers informing the employees is practical. Are they going to publish it in their employee handbook? What about turnover? It is putting a burden on the owner / manager that I think is beyond what we should expect of them, and is something that I don't think they should have to "pay" for in order for us to pursue our hobby. I think that as a practical matter, all we can really do is get permission.

 

I can certainly see the desire on the sheriff to just do his job and get home alive. But I think his reaction to what he did was one of covering his political self more than just a matter of explaining he had no choice. I hear the same rhetoric from my 10 year old and his classmates: "what was I SUPPOSED to do? I punched him in the nose because he looked like he was mad at me and I didn't want him to punch me first". What follows is a perfectly logical explanation as to why such a preemptive strike was necssary.... from their perspective.

 

A general problem we are also seeing is the lack of trained observers, yet treating their information as if it were from competent individuals and using "zero tolerance" or "protocol" formulas based on this reporting. For all we know that innocent lady at the ice cream parlor may be wearing aluminum foil under her hair net and hat to keep out the alien mind probes. She may not be a danger to anyone in the classic sense, but her report to the police is treated with the assumption that she is "normal". I am not suggesting anything about this particular person, but I certainly don't think I would have considered the activity she witnessed as "suspicious". Even with the FBI admonition to watch the storage place (not the fake railroad car). You can prime the fertile mind with things that are going to almost predestine this kind of thing. Just listen to the list of who could have been out there planting a bomb, and at least I see someone that sees a lot of threats where there aren't any. And she will do it again if she gets the chance.

 

I guess that is enough bandwidth for now. I need to get some work done.

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Well, this is my first post on this topic, but I just cannot keep from adding my 2 cents.

 

That's a lot of words, more than I really want to read. Skimming through it seems like you want to add a few new rules and some red tape to the cache approval process.

 

No more rules are needed.

The cache approval process is just fine the way it is.

 

This was an isolated incident, no need to revamp the game.

 

:mad:

Edited by Criminal
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2) If it is a multi-cache, all waypoints should be given separately but not as part of the general description that gets published. This would then be kept as part of the permanent record of the cache as well. A picture of each of these should also be provided.

 

That would be an approver note.

We already are supposed to do that when we place a multi.

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2) If it is a multi-cache, all waypoints should be given separately but not as part of the general description that gets published. This would then be kept as part of the permanent record of the cache as well. A picture of each of these should also be provided.

 

That would be an approver note.

We already are supposed to do that when we place a multi.

Well, I have never placed one, so I speak out of ignorance of the procedure. I did read through it, but didn't recall that requirement. Are pictures of it required?

 

Another post indicated that this was an isolated incident and that more procedures and red tape are not required. I am the first to admit that I am new to the game, but just in the last couple weeks, I have heard of at least three such incidents. I wanted to say four, which I think is correct, but since I don't know if two of them were actually referring to the same incident, I refrain. I don't want to damage the veracity of the point. Anyway, my position would be that I would rather author the red tape than the multitude of agencies taking it on their own out of ignorance and creating a worse nightmare.

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