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jeff35080

An Unhappy Sheriff

253 posts in this topic

This is not a good bit of news:

 

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/0/028540-8020-004.html

 

I can't help but wonder if the hider of the cache in question had permission? As mtn-man can relate we had a cache hidden in a similar manner here in my small hometown which caused the police to be summoned.

 

Since I am involved in law enforcement I was able to talk to the local authorities and was able to contact mtn-man who archived the cache here in question. The person that hid the cache on the piece of railroad apparatus did not realize that the apparatus was still being used as a office for the local Chamber of Commerce.

 

I'm growing weary of reading some of these news articles which could have been prevented by simply asking permission. I am an avid geocacher and love the sport, I just hate some of the recent bad publicity. The department where I serve has two EOD members that are geocachers.... I wish all departments were lucky enough to have EOD members that were cachers.

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May not be many checking out this site since they misspelled the link :lol:

 

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And yet another reason why I won't go after certain urban caches. Community paranoia is still too high.

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The last two sentences of that article s@#k! This may be off topic, but if the "terrorists" can stop us from enjoying a very family friendly sport which only promotes outdoor activity and community involvement, then the "terrorists" win!

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"People have to understand that I've been to three FBI and CIA briefings in the last two weeks, getting briefed on terrorists and terrorism," Mahan said.

 

"They need to find another game.

 

I love the quote. He needs to operate in the world he lives in. Geocaching is here to stay and I'm going to keep on caching. He needs to learn to adapt. Maybe there is another class in his future. I've offered to teach our local police and sheriffs office. As the saying goes. You can lead a horse to water...

 

It's still ironic to me that here they get reported as drug stashes. Not bombs. The person making the call has a lot of influence on how everyone responds. I'm glad they called because I want people paying attention and I want them reporting suspicious behavior. But reality is not every call is a bomb, and not all suspicious behavior is a terrorist. There will be false alarms, and I'm sure he learned that in his class as well.

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Ok... I'm confused by this

 

Mahan said later Tuesday that Cook had been released. He did not know if Cook would face charges.

 

"We're going to interview Cook, tally the costs and then meet with the prosecutor," he said.

 

 

How can he be charged with anything and charged $$ for the response?

 

Well, I guess in this post 9-11 world, you can have anything happen to you. :lol:

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EOD

 

Explosive ordinance disposal i.e. bomb squad members

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Imagine the nerve of "David Cook" taking children along on his bomb-planting expeditions!!

 

And imagine the disappointment of those cops when it didn't blow up. All that paperwork and nothing to show for it. Sheesh.

 

A bad day was had by all... Except Lucas, who had a fine time, "I got to ring the bell."

 

-Bob

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Whats an EOD member??

Explosive Ordnance Disposal

 

Once dispatched training and protocol take over. If they can't positively show a cache isn't a threat it will be destroyed. They do not take chances. They do not mess around. If there is any question at all about a cache it will be destroyed.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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>>"We're going to interview Cook, tally the costs and then meet with the >>prosecutor," he said.

 

Give me a break... meet with the prosecutor... Everyone needs to learn to relax.

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Uh oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble here I just know it, but if anyone would like to try to explain their oppinions on this matter to Sheriff Mahan, here is his email addy: kmahan@blackfordcounty.com

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Uh oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble here I just know it, but if anyone would like to try to explain their oppinions on this matter to Sheriff Mahan, here is his email addy: kmahan@blackfordcounty.com

I almost did but directed my efforts to a longer term project that would benifit the hobby.

 

Anyone who responds should think twice and type once. :lol:

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Uh oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble here I just know it, but if anyone would like to try to explain their oppinions on this matter to Sheriff Mahan, here is his email addy: kmahan@blackfordcounty.com

Then why post it.

All we need is someone to go off on the guy. Its great for relations.

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Who can relax in the light of such terrifying events? I mean, these black boxes are ~everywhere~, over 126,000 of them. What if there was a rubbermaid tub in ~your~ neighborhood? I bet you'd take that very seriously indeed.

 

How many cops does it take to shoot a Rubbermaid? You think they'd have something better to do... How were the Department of Natural Resources officers participating, making sure no animals were harmed in the demolition?

 

This is really getting out of hand.

-Bob

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I'm growing weary of reading some of these news articles which could have been prevented by simply asking permission. I am an avid geocacher and love the sport, I just hate some of the recent bad publicity. The department where I serve has two EOD members that are geocachers.... I wish all departments were lucky enough to have EOD members that were cachers.

I doubt permission would have changed anything in this case.

 

News Article Quote;

Mahan said.

 

"They need to find another game."

 

RIGHT!

We think the USA isn't a police state.

Edited by Byron & Anne
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Uh oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble here I just know it, but if anyone would like to try to explain their oppinions on this matter to Sheriff Mahan, here is his email addy: kmahan@blackfordcounty.com

Then why post it.

All we need is someone to go off on the guy. Its great for relations.

Not suggesting anyone "go off on the guy". I said "explain their opinions". But then I knew I was going to get in trouble didn't I. :lol:

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I doubt permission would have changed anything in this case.

 

In this case, I think permission would have been a very good thing :lol:

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I doubt permission would have changed anything in this case.

 

In this case, I think permission would have been a very good thing :lol:

I agree. It seems to me that if the owners of the surronding businesses had known about it, the situation could have been averted.

Edited by CapnJackSparrow
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I doubt permission would have changed anything in this case.

 

In this case, I think permission would have been a very good thing :lol:

I agree. It seems to me that if the owners of the surronding businesses had known about it, the situation could have been averted.

The problem is that you would have had to told the owners of the surrounding businesses. I know I wouldn't have because it's not their property I'm putting the cache on. The Chamber of Commerce might have spread the word and that could of done some good though.

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I believe I located the cache online it's The Tin Lizzy (GCJZD7)and according to the cache description the hider had permission.

 

Perhaps he just forgot his NOT A BOMB sticker, I forget that darn thing all the time.

 

:lol: another urban bites the dust...err, another urban bites the bullet. hmm, another urban eats a bullet ??

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[The problem is that you would have had to told the owners of the surrounding businesses. I know I wouldn't have because it's not their property I'm putting the cache on. The Chamber of Commerce might have spread the word and that could of done some good though.

I'm refering to the fact that was placed on the property of one of the businesses as in this quote from the article: "an unknown person place a suspicious box under a train on display at the Tin Lizzy, an ice cream shop located at..."

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and according to the cache description the hider had permission.

 

Good detective work! I wonder if the owner(s) of the business were at work when this happened or if they had told any of their employees about the geocache?

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Who can relax in the light of such terrifying events? I mean, these black boxes are ~everywhere~, over 126,000 of them. What if there was a rubbermaid tub in ~your~ neighborhood? I bet you'd take that very seriously indeed.

I know I'd be out looking for it :lol:

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[The problem is that you would have had to told the owners of the surrounding businesses.  I know I wouldn't have because it's not their property I'm putting the cache on.  The Chamber of Commerce might have spread the word and that could of done some good though.

I'm refering to the fact that was placed on the property of one of the businesses as in this quote from the article: "an unknown person place a suspicious box under a train on display at the Tin Lizzy, an ice cream shop located at..."

Did you check out Team Hydnckr's post?

 

If they have the right cache it looks like this one was clean as a whistle.

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and according to the cache description the hider had permission.

 

Good detective work! I wonder if the owner(s) of the business were at work when this happened or if they had told any of their employees about the geocache?

I have a cache in a building with permission. The staff at any given time doesn't know about the cache. It adds to the difficulty level, but leads to some interesting conversation.

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This brings up an interesting quandry... when we have permission, so we ensure that all parties at a location are aware of the cache or just the property owner.... we can all debate this rhetorical question for a long time :lol:

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Yep, saw that after I had already posted. Just sounds now like something went very wrong here.

 

1.) The man had his children with him. Terrorists usually don't bring their children. (in this country)

 

2.)If the business owner knew it was there, why didn't they speak up.

 

3.) Did they, And maybe an over-zelous sheriff didn't want to listen?

 

Who knows BUT, how many people from the area have already checked out the web site from reading the article and will be GeoCaching by this weekend? :lol:

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Who knows BUT, how many people from the area have already checked out the web site from reading the article and will be GeoCaching by this weekend? :lol:

Not too many, because of that typo :lol:

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Not too many, because of that typo :lol:

 

Oops, no it doesn't. They didn't even link it right.

Edited by CapnJackSparrow
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Wait a sec. Why would Mtn-man be charged with anything at all? If I read the article correctly, he FOUND the box. He didn't place the cache.

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"Someone, anyone, will hide a box somewhere, anywhere..."

 

This line makes us sound like something akin to vandals, placing these sinister black boxes anywhere we darn well please. It wouldn't have taken him long to find that there ARE standards and requirements in having a cache approved for listing. Really substandard research by the reporter.

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Like Jeff said, there needs to be more LEO cachers. There is one on the SCGA Steering Commitee and I know of at least two local ones (unfortunately they are in the same department) and they've made more aware of the sport--even said they use it as a training tool.

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I'm not sure what the cost to the city was. I’m sure an EOD unit doesn't come cheap.

I can see the next city council meeting. "Mr./Mrs. Mayor we can't afford to send the EOD to all these GGeocaching boxes. I think we should just BAN ggeocaching within our city limits.

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I think a .50 cal and some EOD was a little overkill along with the bad press we get when hiders place caches near business.

 

It would be a shame if the finder got to pay a bunch of money because he went after a misplaced cache.

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I think a .50 cal and some EOD was a little overkill along with the bad press we get when hiders place caches near business.

 

It would be a shame if the finder got to pay a bunch of money because he went after a misplaced cache.

And why was the cache misplaced?

 

The cache page says he had premission to place it there from the owners of the property.

Edited by ironman114
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I was about to fire off a rant about trigger-happy law enforcement officers, but then thought better of it...

Look at it this way... Someone engaged in our hobby DOES look a little bit suspicious. Skulking about, periodically looking at a mysterious doodad in his/her hand. Then locating and messing with a "black box" that none of the area's residents even knew was there...

If our hobby was more mainstream, then these incidents wouldn't raise many eyebrows; everyone would know what was going on. But since we PURPOSELY try to be as clandestine as possible when 'caching, then it's only natural for people to get the wrong idea about what we're doing.

Sadly, these incidents will almost certainly continue unless TPTB start restricting (or even -gasp- banning) urban caches. Not likely, but something worth considering.

Does anyone have ideas as to how we might prevent this kind of confusion in an urban setting? Without totally giving the cache and it's hiding place away?

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Does anyone have ideas as to how we might prevent this kind of confusion in an urban setting?

 

Virtual geocaches.

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Hmmmm... kinda reminds me of my latest cache, placed with full permission on the grounds of a MAJOR hotel near the local international airport.

 

The head honcho manager gave his blessing all right and promised to alert his staff. But a week later, when I talked to an employee, the staffer I encountered had NO clue. I personally clued him in and told him to share the news with his co-workers, please.

 

Makes me wonder who else there does not have a clue still. Hello boss? Communication please? I'll have to walk in again and do a spot check to see if we still have unclued folks working there. Don't want the cache to be endangered. :huh:

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We think whoever called the cops overreacted. There has just not been that many terrorist bombings around here to get upset.

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>>"We're going to interview Cook, tally the costs and then meet with the >>prosecutor," he said.

 

Give me a break... meet with the prosecutor... Everyone needs to learn to relax.

I agree that a chill pill is in order, but this is the reality that we live in.

 

We are going to have to adapt ourselves to keep this from happening or to keep our caches from being used as porn drops or drug drops, etc. We had a cache in Omaha that was found by a couple of kids and they found porn in it. Needless to say, the State Patrol and the media had a field day with it. We are handling it by aggressively checking all of our caches in Omaha and voluntarily reporting any further porn.

 

The thing about caches in urban areas is that the temptation to mis-interpret them (as in this case) or to have some jerk mis use them is too great. We have to start considering how to deal with this kind of event as our recent cache is not the first porn experience and the above mentioned bomb squad event is not the first (or even the first 10) of these.

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I certainly cant blame the sheriff for taking the precautions and actions that he took. Law enforcement cant afford to be wrong in these situations.

 

Had the cache owner taken the simple step of getting approval the entire incident could have been avoided. His lack of competence gives geocaching a bad name, and puts geocaching at risk of being legislated by government. NOT GOOD!

 

If you dont have any common sense, try following the rules.

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Team Flashncache, as you have noted, this is a risk of doing business. So long as there was public notice that a city council was planning a ban there would be enough of a public reaction to make them think twice about banning caching.

 

As for doing something to help prevent it, Terracachers has a project on the books to work with the EOD in an area and come up with a guide. The goal is to have this handy so people can lessen the odds their cache gets called in by someone to begin with.

 

Once the call is made, it's too late and protocol takes over. Then you get great little quotes like "they need to find a new game" over something that was done with permission from the right people. Hell if the business owner kept their spare key there you could have the same result. I doubt the quote would of been the same though, more like "It was an honest mistake, and I'm glad our citizens where paying attention, and reporting suspicions behavior. This is an important part of helping keep our country safe in a post 9/11 world".

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This is NOT a put down of anyone posting to the thread. I feel it may be interesting to see how attitudes have changed, or not, since a previous discussion about urban caches. Edited by bug&snake
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The good Sherrif should suck it up and move on ... This was an accident, accidents happen. At least he and his posse got some very good on-the-job, real life experience in dealing with a potentially hazardous situation. The finder should not be charged (or harrassed however you want to call it) and the hider apparently had permission. This was an accident, poop happens ...

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Had the cache owner taken the simple step of getting approval the entire incident could have been avoided. His lack of competence gives geocaching a bad name, and puts geocaching at risk of being legislated by government. NOT GOOD!

 

If you dont have any common sense, try following the rules.

If you read the cache page, the cache owner did get permission from the property owner before placing the cache.

According to the news article, the property owner was on his way to Florida when this incident occurred. If the property owner had been there, he would have explained the situation to the police. My guess is that the cache hider obtained permission from the owner, but the owner neglected to tell his employees.

I was recently in a similar situation. I was looking for a cache behind a business and the owner came out to question me. After some discussion, it turned out that the cache hider had obtained permission from one of the three owners of the business, who then did not adequately inform her partners.

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Since a few people are getting confused, here is the link to the cache page again. The owner DID get permission as stated in the description page.

The Tin Lizzy

Also got another google alert this morning: Because the Muncie newspaper got the story and it's interesting, I'm sure it's popular stuff on the AP wires and an Indianapolis TV station placed it on their website....it's the exact copy from the paper so that does NOT mean that it was on-air at this station, just a web report.

Indianapolis Channel 6

 

The hits just keep on comin' :huh:

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Absolutly amazing how something like that can get out of hand. It they had only checked with the owner or whomever gave Permission to let the cache be placed there.

 

I find it great that people are using caution in these times but I also think that sometimes things are not investigated closely enough before reaching conclusions.

 

Folks , I have met this cache owner , talked to him spent some time caching with him . He is responsible cache placer and would not have placed said cache without permission . This is the Link to the Cache.

Tin Lizzy

 

I am going to e-mail the owner and direct him to this thread so if he choses he may respond with his own thoughts.

Star of Team Tigger International

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