Logs They Can't Find

[debi13]

seems to be lots of logs by people that didn't find the cache

 

they are in the area can't find cache say it must be missing so they should get a credit for a find

 

has geocaching become a numbers game high score wins !!!

 

if you don't sign the log how can you log it as a FIND !!!

 

key word F_I_N_D !!!

 

what's you thoughts on this

[+Nurse Dave]

Well ya. It's just a problem with cache owners not making people be responsible. Self policing doesn't work if nobody polices. Now what caches are these? I could use a few more finds!

[debi13]

example of a couple of found logs for the same cache on the same day

 

" Yes indeed this was an easy one… if only the cache was still there.It’s gone folks !!!Will send photos to confirm we were there. Perhaps you can verify that the cache is gone."

 

"We found where the cache had been, "but it's not no more". The fire place and the four trunked tree are there but the cache is not. We wondered if this one was a litte too much in the open. Still a really nice cache hunt. Thanks.

 

these are posted as a found logs

 

what's next

 

drove by the park where the cache is located nice area thanks for the hide

[+Renegade Knight]

Some owners will allow a find if you show them concusivly that you found the right spot and would of found the cache had it been there.

 

The owner then can replace the cache (saving you a trip to log the log by allowing the find) or archive it saving others the trouble of a wasted trip.

 

I've allowed this kind of find before. However I have hard caches as well and no amount of DNF's will earn a find on them.

[+Team Perks]

As a courtesy, I've let some people log a find if 1) they were at the site and identified exactly where the cache should have been, and 2) I verified that the cache was missing. As a courtesy as the cache owner, I see it as fair.

 

I personally won't log a find until I have actually had my hands on the cache container (virtual caches excepted ), but I don't really care if someone chooses to bend the "rules" a little in playing their game.

 

Since there is no competition and numbers really have no meaning, it doesn't really affect me if someone decides to cheat ("cheat" only being possible if there is some sort of competition anyway).

[+CYBret]

I logged my second "DNF" on a cache that's about an hour and a half away from me. We searched for a good hour or so and never saw anything....I did enjoy writing my DNF log, though.

 

The next day I got an email from the cache owner saying, "if you're going for the numbers go ahead and log it as a find." Naaaah...I'll log the cache when I log the cache.

 

Bret

[+Nurse Dave]

 

these are posted as a found logs

 

what's next

 

drove by the park where the cache is located nice area thanks for the hide

Been done:

 

"I saw the cache as approx. .14-.15 from my spot...hmmmm? Saw the water hazard too THEN I saw the 2nd gate CLOSE! Drat, had just missed it by about 15 minutes!!!!"

 

Posted as a find. Gotta love the definition of "find".

[+IV_Warrior]

what's next

 

drove by the park where the cache is located nice area thanks for the hide

Too late, I've already seen that posted as a find, too.

[+RichardMoore]

I had someone log a find on my virtual who said "I don't even have to go down there, I know right where it is."

I e-mailed him twice explaining that I still needed the confirming question answered. After the second e-mail he changed his log to read "I should go down there some day", but it was still logged as a find. I deleted his log.

[+5]

I logged my second "DNF" on a cache that's about an hour and a half away from me. We searched for a good hour or so and never saw anything....I did enjoy writing my DNF log, though.

 

The next day I got an email from the cache owner saying, "if you're going for the numbers go ahead and log it as a find." Naaaah...I'll log the cache when I log the cache.

 

Bret

Almost three years with only two DNFs? You're a better man than I am!!!

[Prairie Jeepin]

I have nothing good to say about fake "finds", so I won't say anything to add to the fire...

 

I'll just sit here and shake my head.

[debi13]

this was a log on a 5 star cache that has a print out waiver form to fill in

and requires rappelling down a rock face

 

Well - almost found it. We got to the cliff, too much for a 5 year old to climb, but we felt it was close enough.

 

he was also the first finder on this one

[+CYBret]

I logged my second "DNF" on a cache that's about an hour and a half away from me.  We searched for a good hour or so and never saw anything....I did enjoy writing my DNF log, though. 

 

The next day I got an email from the cache owner saying, "if you're going for the numbers go ahead and log it as a find."  Naaaah...I'll log the cache when I log the cache.

 

Bret

Almost three years with only two DNFs? You're a better man than I am!!!

No no..it was my second DNF on the SAME cache.

 

I've logged a LOT of DNFs....love em all!

 

Bret

[CoyoteRed]

A favorite pet peeve of mine.

 

I tend to not allow exceptions, but don't begrudge others allowing a find on a missing cache if conclusive proof the cache was missing.

 

For me, it's simple: viable cache with a markable logbook--no exception. Cache destroyed, clean it up and show me verifiable items from it, yep. Cache missing, nope.

 

Yes, I check logs.

[+carleenp]

On one of my caches a person logged as find when it had gone missing. I actually ran into him when I went to check the cache. His theory was that he knew where it was, although it was a tricky hide, so I was not so sure about that. Regardless, I tend to believe in logging a find only if the actual cache was found. At the same time, I am not the type to go deleting logs. What I did was politely ask him to change his found to a note, which he did. He disagreed and nicely told me so, but he changed his log. If he hadn't, I would have left it but posted my own polite note making clear that he did not find the container so that others would not get confused while I was in the process of replacing the cache and to keep the record straight.

 

I once posted a DNF and the owner wrote to me and told me that since I exactly described the hiding place, I could log a find. I don't care if owners want to extend such an option, but I declined it and left my DNF.

 

The main thing I hope people come to realize is that DNFs are not a bad thing. They don't make the cacher look bad or anything. Plus some of my favorite cache hunts and logs are for DNFs.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

... At the same time, I am not the type to go deleting logs. What I did was politely ask him to change his found to a note, which he did. He disagreed and nicely told me so, but he changed his log. If he hadn't, I would have left it but posted my own polite note making clear that he did not find the container so that others would not get confused ...

Well, you're certainly trying your very best to be PC, but let's pretend for just a moment that the individual hadn't agreed to change their illegitimate "find" to a "note" or "DNF." No matter how "polite" such a note might be, the person whose illegitimate "find" the note addressed might very well be embarrassed and humiliated by your note, and subjected to public ridicule.

 

It would probably have been kinder just to delete the illegitimate "find."

[+carleenp]

... At the same time, I am not the type to go deleting logs. What I did was politely ask him to change his found to a note, which he did. He disagreed and nicely told me so, but he changed his log. If he hadn't, I would have left it but posted my own polite note making clear that he did not find the container so that others would not get confused ...

Well, you're certainly trying your very best to be PC, but let's pretend for just a moment that the individual hadn't agreed to change their illegitimate "find" to a "note" or "DNF." No matter how "polite" such a note might be, the person whose illegitimate "find" the note addressed might very well be embarrassed and humiliated by your note, and subjected to public ridicule.

 

It would probably have been kinder just to delete the illegitimate "find."

Perhaps, although I would word it to avoid that and would let them know my plans to post it. I wouldn't do that without warning. I figure it would provide them with some choice and/or make them ponder whether they really wanted to leave the find log.

 

Of course there is no perfect solution. The best would have been that the person never posted the find to begin with.

[+Car54]

As part of last weekend's caching activity, we posted a DNF on a virtual. We were most definitely in the area, but it wasn't until we got home and read the hint that we realized we hadn't seen what we needed to to answer the question. So I logged a DNF.

 

One of our finds for that weekend was a traditional cache by the same owner. We logged a find on it, although I admitted in our log that I was kind of ashamed to do so. Yeah, we found the ammo box, made a trade and signed the log, so technically it WAS a find. However, we did the cache as night was falling and rushed through it, never seeing the view for which the cache was named.

 

Guess which of the two caches was the better experience for us? Yep, the DNF. The cache owner e-mailed us about the DNF and said we could log it as a find since their intent was to take cachers to a specific area and we had obviously been there. I've left it as a DNF, though, 'cause IMO we didn't meet the requirements stated on the cache page.

 

I did really appreciate the e-mail from the owner, though. In a few weeks, we're going back and try again on the virt and we'll also try to right our geo-karma by visiting that one find again so we can experience the beauty of the area, not just the satisfaction of finding the ammo box.

[CoyoteRed]

I've left it as a DNF, though, 'cause IMO we didn't meet the requirements stated on the cache page.

 

I mean...

 

The "requirements" on a virtual are really just a means of verifying that you were actually there. The owner states on the cache page a bit of information he knows to be accurate and supposedly not Google-able.

 

If you take a picture of yourself there or supply a different bit of information that he can verify, then he can certainly allow it. Doesn't mean he has to, but he certainly can.

[+Car54]

CR,

 

Now that I think about it....that's a very good point about virtuals. Since we live only half an hour from the cache, and since the area is so beautiful in the autumn, it won't be any hardship to revisit. However, if we can't answer the question after our second visit, we'll probably go ahead and log the smiley.

[+WalruZ]

I've seen cachers in my area start adding lines to new caches stating that the log must be signed in order to claim a find. Too many "I forgot my pencil" type logs.

 

"I couldn't find it, but I was there" - ? dee-leet.

[+Hard Oiler]

I've seen cachers in my area start adding lines to new caches stating that the log must be signed in order to claim a find.  Too many "I forgot my pencil" type logs. 

 

"I couldn't find it, but I was there" - ?  dee-leet.

The closest I came to that was finding a cache disguised as a log but being too weak at the end of a day of caching I couldn't open it. So I discretely signed the log instead. The owner allowed the find.

[+ShadowAce]

seems to be lots of logs by people that didn't find the cache

 

they are in the area can't find cache say it must be missing so they should get a credit for a find

 

has geocaching become a numbers game high score wins !!!

 

if you don't sign the log how can you log it as a FIND !!!

 

key word F_I_N_D !!!

 

what's you thoughts on this

Oh we have some even better then that around our parts...

 

"We searched but found no cache, so we placed a container with a logsheet. TFTC" <-- writen as the find log.

 

Now this just makes me laugh because these will be the same people who will go to an event and brag.. As my kids said.. "A find is a bonus, the fun is in the hunt" So we keep hunting and hunting and playing and enjoying the game.

 

Let others play how they wish, we play for the fun and the 'excuse' to get outdoors alot. We have met some very wonderful and caring people in this game. We have alot had the unlucky break of running into some real jerks. This will happen no matter what hobbie you select, so we ignore the jerkocachers and enjoy the geocachers..

 

So many people get fuming over 'Is it legal for X to have done Y' that I have seen cachers willing to give up on the sport, we do our best to help them understand that people will be people.

 

Nobody asked my advice, so I cannot tell anyone to follow our lead and ignore the social challenged. Go find a cache with a friend or better yet, go find a friend when you cache. I just wish we ran into more people caching. Come on down our way and we will show people some great caching locations.

[+Square Bear]

Can't see claiming a find unless you sign the log. I've walked all the way back to the SUV to get a pencil to sign the log. I've also have found missing caches (the swag was lying all over the ground, and verified that some of the stuff on the ground had been in the cache by reading the logs) but still didn't log a find until the cache had been replaced. It was an easy find knew right were it was. Every one has to play there own game, just like some don't like micro caches, some don't like the long hikes, and others are in it for the numbers.

[+Mudfrog]

I've seen cachers in my area start adding lines to new caches stating that the log must be signed in order to claim a find. Too many "I forgot my pencil" type logs.

 

"I couldn't find it, but I was there" - ? dee-leet.

Ive gotten to a couple of caches where i forgot to bring something to write with and there was no pencil or pen inside. Not wanting to hike all the way back to the Jeep, both times i picked up a twig, rubbed it in the dirt and used it like a quill dipped in ink. Doesnt work too good but the log got signed! Heck, im sure there are many other ways i could come up with to leave our mark in a logbook!!!

[AZcachemeister]

If I find the cache and sign the log, it's a find.

If I find the EXACT spot, but the cache is missing/destroyed/stolen by space aliens, it's a DNF!

If the owner replaces the cache; I come back, sign the log, and it's a find.

If the owner archives it; I've saved other cachers from a wasted trip.

If I can't make it back again; hopefully the owner has chosen an enjoyable location and the cache was a bonus!

 

What could be simpler?

[+The Puzzler]

What could be simpler?

Well, you probably don't really want the answer to that question, but many things are simpler. For instance . . .

 

If I look for a cache, it's a .

If I don't look for a cache, it's not a .

 

May not make much sense, but hey, it's simpler.

 

Any other questions?

 

P.S. And I wonder why my kids are so annoyingly pedantic.

 

By the way, I love your avitar AZ.

Edited October 15, 2004 by The Puzzler

[+Mr.Benchmark]

If I find the cache and sign the log, it's a find.

If I find the EXACT spot, but the cache is missing/destroyed/stolen by space aliens, it's a DNF!

If the owner replaces the cache; I come back, sign the log, and it's a find.

If the owner archives it; I've saved other cachers from a wasted trip.

If I can't make it back again; hopefully the owner has chosen an enjoyable location and the cache was a bonus!

 

What could be simpler?

I agree, but I have a "find" on a cache that I truly DNF. It was a fairly long and involved night cache. I didn't end up enjoying it (mostly for reasons beyond the cache hiders control.) The owner of the cache had played a little trick on the finder - just as you got to what was described as the final - you discovered the final wasn't really there - it was a ways further ahead. So I walk over to where it has to be - and it really is gone. So I spent another 45 minutes searching fruitlessly, and getting really annoyed about the whole thing. So I logged a DNF, told the owner that I thought it was gone, and asked if he could just send me the waypoint for the final, since he was going to move it, so I didn't want to have to walk the entire night cache again. (I would have taken the DNF instead of doing the whole thing over again.)

 

The owner emailed me back and said: "Look, you got what I wanted you to get from the cache - the experience of wandering around in the woods in the dark, and had the cache been there, you'd have found it because it was just sitting next to a tree. There's no point in your going back, just change it to a "found it" log." So I said "OK, it's your cache", and changed it to a "Found it." I guess, in retrospect, that was somewhat lame. I rationalized it at the time that I'd put a couple of hours of effort into the cache, the owner said it was OK, and the "find" seemed more legit than some of the 1/1 caches I'd found.

 

I've allowed this on a puzzle cache I had. It really did go missing, but the puzzle required you to spend quite a bit of time working out the solution. Someone worked it out, went there, got the DNF. I checked - it really was gone. I felt bad for the guy, and I subsequently archived the cache, but I told him to go ahead and log the find - he solved the puzzle, which was the main point. I guess I allowed it because I appreciated the fact that he spent a bunch of time working on my puzzle cache, instead of doing some other caches. (Had it not been really gone, I'd have denied a find - it was actually a difficult cache to find, even after you solved the puzzle.)

 

I do agree that expecting to get a smiley every time you hunt for a cache is not reasonable, and logging one just because you feel you should have found it is really pointless - you are just lying to yourself.

[+The Puzzler]

Mr. Benchmark,

 

I think you have hit a good nail on the head with a bent hammer.

 

From reading your post, it sounds to me like there really are some caches out there where the experience of getting there (not finding the physical cache) is really the point of the cache.

 

Gee, do we count vertual and locationless caches in our counts?

 

In cases like these, and with full support of the cache owner (and asside from the fact that I think your stats are your's took keep however you darn well please) I think logging the examples you gave should not result in any rebukes from other geocachers.

 

What was it the bible said about a log in ones line of sight?