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TheWiz

**attention 60cs Owners**

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A consistant problem exists with the GPSMAP 60cs model where a total lock up occurs during a TrackBack of any saved track while displaying the Trip Computer screen for more than about 5 to 10 minutes during a typical commute or road trip. The momentary removal of a battery is then necessary to clear the problem. Obviously a very big flaw in the 60 series, this feature is non-optional in it's need to work very well. I have found this problem in two units now, one of which was purchased new pre-loaded with v3.50 and has never been connected to a PC. The other unit was also purchased new but manufactored at least four months ago also running v3.50 that I loaded. I have since brought the problem to Garmin's attention where they responded saying they have never heard of such reports from other owners. I am though regularly reporting my observations to Joey at Garmin who has offered to record them in hope of characterizing and isolating the problem for a future fix if possible.

 

I am recommending here that everyone test their units for this potentially hazardous flaw in our navigation equipment and report your findings to Garmin as soon as possible.

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You say "during a typical commute or road trip", so I'm assuming you're actively tracking satellites and moving...? Or are you tracking, and then like stuck in traffic and NOT moving?

 

Also, what data fields do you have selected on the computer page?

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as i mentioned in a previous thread there is also a big problem in how the trackback functions works - if i'm on the return leg of a walk (say 1/4 of the way along the return leg) and then activate trackback to "start" the unit will force me to walk that 1/4 of the way back (away from start) and then will take me the way i need to go.

 

this is the operational behaviour even along a straight line track where there are zero turns...

 

the older garmins do not operate this way - only the new 60's 76's and probably the new vista and legend (have not tried them yet).

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Try reloading version 3.3 to your 60. I was having total lockups during regular navigating and solved it by going back. Doesn't take long to do so it's worth a try. You never know!

 

Cheers, Olar

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So, are none of you having lockups during TrackBack on a saved track while monitoring only the trip computer display for @ five minutes or more?

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So, are none of you having lockups during TrackBack on a saved track while monitoring only the trip computer display for @ five minutes or more?

I'd like to try to help you reproduce the problem with my 60C, but you haven't answered my questions.

 

What data fields do you have selected on the computer page?

 

Do I need to constantly keep moving, or can I track back partially and stop for 10 minutes???

 

I can't help you much if you won't help me help you :unsure:

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Well, my original intent was more to alert folk of the issue and secondly as a tally of sorts to determine how wide spread the problem might be. But to answer your question about motion and such. My observations have all been in motion both walking and on the road and my active trip computer fields are as follows: Distance to Next, Distance to Destination, Time to Next, Time to Destination, Speed, Trip Odometer, Destination and ETA at Next.

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Hello all, I am also having a similar problem with the tracback feature

 

failing testcases:

- If the unit has the gps on and using the active track log the unit freezes after pointing at the destination to tracback to. Navigation mode set to "follow track".

- The same happens using a saved track.

working testcases:

- The tracback feature works if the gps is off and using the simulation feature.

 

The lock up for the failing testcases is 100% of the time. The only way to exit the lock up is to switch the unit off. The unit responds two seconds after fading the screen then unit shuts off. After powering on the unit can be used again.

 

Firmware version: 3.50

 

Am I doing something wrong? May it be a software or hardware problem?

 

I have already contacted Garmin and posted the problem in the newsgroup: sci.geo.satellite-nav

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I had the same type of problem. firmware 3.50. I was following a tracback, and I was looking at the "highway" page. Everytime it came to a new trackpoint, it would lock up and I would have to pull the batteries. I sent a message to Garmin, but so far they have not upgraded the firmware.

 

If you are trying to reproduce this, be sure it is set to "follow track' rather than "follow road"

 

(edited to provide additional info)

Edited by CenTexDodger

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Well, my original intent was more to alert folk of the issue and secondly as a tally of sorts to determine how wide spread the problem might be.  But to answer your question about motion and such.  My observations have all been in motion both walking and on the road and my active trip computer fields are as follows: Distance to Next, Distance to Destination, Time to Next, Time to Destination, Speed, Trip Odometer, Destination and ETA at Next.

Well, I walked to the store this evening - toting my 60C. Before departing, I cleared everything except for my maps and waypoints. I traveled 1.2 miles one way, and made frequent turns. Just prior to reaching my destination, I saved my tracks. When I did a tracback, I turned to the trip computer page and left it there. It went all the way.

 

A couple of possible variables:

I had the "Next Turn Pop-Up" option enabled, so the trip computer page was automatically interrupted several times. I also did not change my original trip computer data fields.

 

I'll be repeating the trip again tomorrow. This time I'll turn off the "Show Upcoming Turn" option, and I'll set my trip computer data fields to match yours.

Edited by Neo_Geo

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I do not have a 60cs .. yet. So I really don;t know what I am talking about.

 

But .. I just stumbled to the following web page ..  http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_gpsmap60...pgrades_en.html  .. Where it says that 3.50 is "not compatible with GPSMAP60CS".

 

Just my 2 cents

Thanks Dorothy. That particular link was for the GPSMAP 60C. The same site also has the firmware versions for the GPSMAP 60CS. The 60CS has its own version 3.50 which is different from the 60C.

 

BE ADVISED that these link to an apparent EUROPEAN site! USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with Europeans in general - don't get me wrong! It's just that firmware for European units may be different from that of US units. :o

 

But Dorothy may have stumbled onto the right idea - perhaps a firmware DOWNGRADE might be in order...

Edited by Neo_Geo

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Neo - if you've got the time try this too:

 

instead of activating trackback at the very end of your walk try turning it on after you've walked some distance along the return leg. tell it you want to return to the beginning of your track. no need to save tracks unless you want to.

 

see if it doesn't want you to go back to the store again instead of simply directing you to your home.

 

a FLAWED design!

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A consistant problem exists with the GPSMAP 60cs model where a total lock up occurs during a TrackBack of any saved track while displaying the Trip Computer screen for more than about 5 to 10 minutes during a typical commute or road trip. The momentary removal of a battery is then necessary to clear the problem. Obviously a very big flaw in the 60 series, this feature is non-optional in it's need to work very well. I have found this problem in two units now, one of which was purchased new pre-loaded with v3.50 and has never been connected to a PC. The other unit was also purchased new but manufactored at least four months ago also running v3.50 that I loaded. I have since brought the problem to Garmin's attention where they responded saying they have never heard of such reports from other owners. I am though regularly reporting my observations to Joey at Garmin who has offered to record them in hope of characterizing and isolating the problem for a future fix if possible.

 

I am recommending here that everyone test their units for this potentially hazardous flaw in our navigation equipment and report your findings to Garmin as soon as possible.

Well, it appears that this must be a problem with the 60CS. I was unable to reproduce the problem with my 60C. I had the "Next Turn Pop-Up" option disabled and all of the trip computer fields matching TheWiz's, and it tracked flawlessly. I tried going off course toward the end, but still no problem noted.

 

I'll test Vlad's problem in the next couple of days.

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I contacted Garmin support and they suggested a master reset (with the unit off press ON + PAGE + ENTER) followed by an update to the latest firmware (in this momment 3.50)

 

Altough I did not expect much (My unit had came with sw version 3.50 already preloaded) now the feature at least works. (In my case I suffered from total lock up when trying to use the tracback feature at all)

 

Now i will try to reproduce the problem described by The Wiz.

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Maybe the problems rely in some specific units:

Model: Garmin GPSmap 60CS

sw version: 3.50 (came with it preloaded)

purchase date sep/2004

basemap: eurpean

bougth at: www.aspid.com

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After all the troubleshooting I've been helping them with in real navigations issues.

Just minutes ago I sent them this in response to the v3.60 announcement:

 

Hi Joey,

 

I just noticed "v3.60" has been released and showing only one improvement. What's the status on TrackBack lockups... I'm ready for this to work properly or get my money back for a Magellan or even better make of GPS. Has anything I've explained here, done or sent you getting us any closer to a fix sometime soon? What are the results found by your engineers while operating under the configuration I sent you that I use with my 60cs? I need to know where we are on this while a refund remains a realistic option, cause unlike many, my need here requires a real navigation instrument, not a geocache toy...Please reply soon.

Thanks,

Steve

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By the way everyone...some of my findings on the original issue are:

 

* It doesn't happen while navigating on a saved route

* It doesn't happen after a full reset.

* It only seems to happen for me under my configuration, which is as follows:

 

Custom Fields

 

Compass: Dist to next Accuracy,

Next

 

Trip Computer: Dist to Next Dist to Dest

Time to Next Time to Dest

Speed Trip Odom

 

HighWay: Course Pointer

To Course Heading

 

Barometer: Elevation Vertical Speed

Baro Plot settings: .4”hg and 3.hrs

 

 

Map SetUp

 

General: Track Up Tracks: Auto

300ft Auto

ON 10,000

Normal Course

ON

 

Points: 3 miles Text: Small

8 miles Medium

Auto Small

Auto Small

 

Imformation: American Marine Point

BaseMap Jan 2001 (checked)

 

Marine: Off

On

Auto

International

 

Elevevation Plot Settings: 40ft Elev. by 165ft Dist.

 

 

Guidance Text (Map): Never Show

 

Map Data Fields: Map Only or Dist to Next - Time to Next

Next

(or less Next) Dist to Dest - Time to Dest

with four fields

 

Menu

 

Proximity: Home .02 Work .02

AlarmClock: OFF

Alarms (checked) Tone 10

 

Calculator: Scientific

 

 

SetUp

 

Interface: Garmin (not connected)

 

Display: Auto System: GPS- Norm

Diamond WAAS – Enabled

Peridot Battery – NiMH

30 seconds English

25% Stay ON

 

Tones: 10 Marine: 0.0 feet Routing: Promted

Off (checked) .12 miles Faster Time

1 100 feet Off

11 20 feet

8 Auto

 

 

To claim your $75 reward,

return lost unit intact to

Steve Thompson at

(336)... -....Email:

.......@....com

 

 

Altimeter: On Page Sequence: Sats

Variable Elevation Map

Save Always Compass

Active Route

Trip Computer

Highway

Altimeter

Sun Moon

 

Sorry for the funking wrapping on the site, hope you can make heads or atils of my configuration

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OK so at least someone else has the same problem as me. I have the default highway page on and my 60CS will always lock up sooner or later, but only on the highway page. If I track back using the map page it takes me all the way with no problems.

 

I have lent out my 60CS for the weekend (Thur Fri over here) so I will post all my settings later. Oh, I'm using 3.5 and may downgrade if this is the solution :-( Come on Garmin this is a problem.

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Well, I've been in regular contact with Joey at Garmin and tried to help them with my observations for quite a while now but I must say, I'm much more pleased with how Magelan handles such issues and may just return my Fisher Price 60cs and continue on with my Magelan Map 330 that I wouldnt trade for anything.

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Dear all, below is the reply that I got from Garmin regarding this problem. They were very prompt in there answer and whilst there is no time line it is positive that the problem is being taken seriously and I can only hope that we have a fix soon:

 

David

 

Thank you for your email

 

Yes this is true it does seem there is a problem on the GPS 60cs, and the

problem is being looked at, hopefully with a fix for it very soon.

 

I hope that this is useful

 

Steve

Product Support Associate

Edited by ashoofak

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Well, Garmin left it up to me to figure out the flaw in their system...and I did.

 

So, here is the bug I've notified Garmin about:

 

If you use "Waypoint at Destination" in a (Trip Computer) data field and actively navigate with Trackback while either the large digit 3 field or small digit 8 field Trip Computer display is on screen and left on screen with one of those fields containing "Waypoint at Destination", for a time that varies up to several minutes, you will eventually find that no digits are updating every second as they should while in motion and at that point if you press any button including power, you will find that your unit is completely locked up and requiring temporary removal of a battery to regain normal function.

 

Bottom line - Using "Waypoint at Destination" in a Trip Computer field is causing the lockups while navigating in Trackback with the TripComputer on screen. So, "Waypoint at Destination" needs to be fixed.

 

Try it and report it to Garmin when you see the same.

 

Steve

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I bought the 60cs about a month ago. It locks up all the time. At least once or twice a day. I typically have it on the map page. I am not sure if it happens on other pages. Do you think this is the same problem that you have been discussing.

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If it's still doing what your unit is doing after a full unit reset, you likely have another unrelated problem. So, you might try doing a reset and then plug in all your custom settings without changing any display fields to "Waypoint at Destination" as this is what I have found is consistantly causing my lockups. Do not use "Waypoint at Destination" till they fix it and let us know what you observe.

 

Steve

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Happy Gilmore: If your unit is constantly locking up I think you should try a master reset: (with the unit off press ON + PAGE + ENTER)

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Thanks for the information. Yesterday I tested a couple different units, with tracklogs of around 150 yards, using the simple lock-up solution you provided. I tried to duplicate it several times, but was not able to get a lock-up. I then took one unit home withh me, and tested it on a longer tracklog, of around 20 minutes in length. After 15 minutes of driving the unit was doing fine, but once I arrived home, the unit was locked up. So I was able to duplicate this once. I am going to continue testing these units over the weekend on some longer tracklogs, to see what I can find. Once I get a complete findings, along with yours, I will be able to put this onto the engineers table and let them do what they need to do. I just need to duplicate this problem a few more times, and gain some more information. I just wanted to keep you posted on where I was with the testing. Thanks again.

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I'm in the marrket for the 60cs or a Vista c. Visited the Garmin booth at the Consumer Electronics Show to hold one in my hand and make up my mind. The Garmin guy said that there is no known lockup problems with the 60cs.

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The Garmin guy said that there is no known lockup problems with the 60cs.

If I worked for Garmin I would probably say the same thing. I don't think he is going to bite the hand that feeds him.

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I tried duplicating the lockup this weekend on a track of about a quarter mile. Marked a waypoint, walked a circuitous route, had Waypoint at Desitination in one of the Trip Computer fields, did a TrakBack. No problems.

 

I had cleared my track log before I started, so maybe that is an element, or maybe I didn't have enough turns (21, I think) in the track log.

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Garmins latest response:

 

To answer your question, I do not know when anything is going to come of the report. I've seen firmware updates happen quickly and I've seen them involve a lot of testing which take a while before an update. It is completely in their hands right now, and I am going to let them do their job, and as soon as they have a fix for it, and have an update, they'll be releasing it.

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I do not have a 60cs .. yet. So I really don;t know what I am talking about.

 

But .. I just stumbled to the following web page .. http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_gpsmap60...pgrades_en.html .. Where it says that 3.50 is "not compatible with GPSMAP60CS".

 

Just my 2 cents

I have sent a correction to the owner of this page that his information is not correct

 

If you download firmware for 60C, 60CS, 76C and 76Cs you will see that all uses the file 029101000360.rgn. The files have the same name and same size. If you are not convinced you can do a crc32 test of the files, and you will see that all have the same check sum.

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Whiz, I had similar "lock-up" problems with my 60cs. Then, the power button completely locked up and wouldn't operate. I couldn't even get the unit to power up. I sent it back and am now waiting for a new unit. If I have problems with the new unit, I'll post. Then.........I'm trying a different model or brand.

 

Thanks for you diligence and pursuit of this issue.

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I've had three 60cs units and they all would lockup while in Trackback with "Waypoint at Destination" in any of the Trip Computer fields with the Trip Computer displayed uninterupted while navigating in excess of 15 minutes touching no buttons until no digits are actively updateing in that display.

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got my 60cs in the mail FINALLY today and sure enough after turn 98 it locked.. all i did was hit the page (or was it the enter) button when i realized it locked and it started working normally again. not a big worry to me.. it was quite easy to fix.. now that i know what to do .. no problem... :rolleyes:

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My 60CS locked up also. I was tracking back with the bearing pointer page showing. :rolleyes: It seems that It's just a screen lock-up cuz after I took out a battery and restarted the thing, It had kept a track of from where it locked-up to where I took out the battery.

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WxGuesser

 

Sounds like a different issue than we're discussing here. Please read my earlier notes on the questionable function of the our configuration being being troubleshot there and please let us know what you observe.

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Whiz, I had similar "lock-up" problems with my 60cs. Then, the power button completely locked up and wouldn't operate. I couldn't even get the unit to power up. I sent it back and am now waiting for a new unit. If I have problems with the new unit, I'll post. Then.........I'm trying a different model or brand.

 

Thanks for you diligence and pursuit of this issue.

I think you might have a different problem. I had my 60cs lock up also but it turned out to be a faulty power button. Garmin replaced it and now it works fine.

 

I wonder if this is a common problem with these soft power swtiches? Anyone else have problems turing your 60c/cs on and off?

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You are right...very different problem, see my first and earlier entries here for understanding of the original thread. It appears we are getting off topic.

 

TheWiz

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i'll have to admit.. i didn't verify all your settings.. all i did was open the box put in the batteries went out walking with the gps.. when i got to my destination i told the gps to trackback.. it was tracking back fine until turn 98.. so i realized it and pressed the page button..then it worked fine the rest of the day.

 

i'll read the thread better next time ... ;(

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And other lookups:

 

Fixed lockup that could happen when selecting a Tracback point.

Fixed lockup that could occur when selecting symbols for waypoints.

Fixed lockup that could occur when approaching certain roads on the map.

Fixed lockup that would occur when 'finding by name' and then viewing map information for the point.

 

Added jumpmaster function:

jump.jpg

 

All fixes:

Fixed transfer problem with custom waypoint symbols.

Now report DEM map support to PC software.

Fixed lockup that could happen when selecting a Tracback point.

Fixed shutdown caused by viewing some Marine Light points.

Fixed problem with Indonesian Southern Grid using wrong longitude of origin.

Added advanced NMEA support settings to support certain marine autopilot units.

Fixed problem where the interaction with certain beacon receivers was not displayed.

Added Select Map option for Address and Intersection searching.

Fixed problem where waypoint depth was not being saved as invalid when it was unknown.

Fixed problem where waypoints could not be saved in certain areas of BlueChart maps.

Fixed lockup that could occur when selecting symbols for waypoints.

Added warning message about removing batteries when Pressure Trend Recording is always on.

Fixed lockup that could occur when approaching certain roads on the map.

Added Jumpmaster support under Setup menu.

Made the way intermittent water areas are drawn more visible.

Fixed problem where compass pointer could transition to next turn too quickly.

Fixed problem with bearing being adjusted improperly when projecting waypoints with a non-zero north reference.

Fixed lockup that would occur when 'finding by name' and then viewing map information for the point.

Fixed problem in tide charts where local time axis would not match the station time axis.

Changed tide stations to show selected date when saved on a calendar day.

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Jumpmaster is an application used to determine when and where skydivers should jump out of a plane to land on their desired target. It computes variables such as air pressure, wind speed and direction and altitude to find the best time and place to jump! It has been available on the eTrex Vista for some time.

 

DOWNLOAD THE JUMPMASTER MANUAL for more information.

Edited by Neo_Geo

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I'm also having trouble with lockups - but not in tracking mode but using the 60CS in the car under external pwr.

 

My lockup happens when powered by external pwr. This happens in both cars, after driving for 5-10 mins and I am viewing the map screen, it powers down and freezes. The on/off button does not work, but after removing the cig. adptr for 10 seconds, everything powers up.

 

If I'm using batteries - never happens. Anyone else have the same issue?

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I'm also having trouble with lockups - but not in tracking mode but using the 60CS in the car under external pwr.

 

My lockup happens when powered by external pwr. This happens in both cars, after driving for 5-10 mins and I am viewing the map screen, it powers down and freezes. The on/off button does not work, but after removing the cig. adptr for 10 seconds, everything powers up.

 

If I'm using batteries - never happens. Anyone else have the same issue?

Did you try 3.61 Beta?

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I am also having the problem with external power lockups. It seems that is the only time it happens. I'll monitor it and see if it happens at any other time. Since this upgrade doesn't specifically address this I will wait to hear from the group to see if it helps with this problem too.

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