E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hello, As a geocacher in PA, I was wondering how cachers in other states who currently allow Sunday hunting stay safe. PA will allow sunday hunting next year, and it scares me and frustrates me, as this was the "safe" day when we could cache during the best season of the year. Has anyone had problems? Having someone telling me to wear orange is not a solution, we live in rural PA and I could be driving a huge orange bus on a major highway and still get accidentally shot. Is this something just accepted? Does wearing orange do the trick? I'll be looking like an orange fireball if so. Quote Link to comment
+cache chasers Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 E&D...Where are you getting your infomation from about PA allowing hunting on Sundays next year....That's news to me. Quote Link to comment
+greende Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 (edited) I grew up in PA and now live in New York where Sunday hunting is allowed. No matter how much orange you wear, you are never guaranteed to be safe. You just have to decide if going out in the woods during hunting season is for you. The hunting accidents that I have seen here in Syracuse tend to be Hunter/Hunter. I do not have the stats to look at but I cannot remember a Hunter/Hiker shooting in this area. I did a cache last weekend where I felt a little uncomfortable but everything went well. Like I said, you just have to find your own comfort level. Edit: added some content. Edited October 7, 2004 by greende Quote Link to comment
magellan315 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Wear blaze orange, at the very least go to walmart and get a blaze orange ball cap. I have been Geocaching and run into hunters who are wearing blaze orange vests and hats and I can see them from a distance. The hunters just assume that I am hunting as well. Usually I avoid an area if I pull up and see a sign warning me of hunting season. I wear a blaze orange hat when I am in the woods and carry a vest in my back pack in case I stumble into a hunting zone. Quote Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I've been hearing shotgun blasts a lot lately (NH, MA). It's time to wear orange whether you are sure of an area or not. Quote Link to comment
E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 Thanks for all your replies. I will likely not cache in many areas, common sense will prevail. Wearing orange and taking my chances isn't for me. I have House Resolution 743 P.N. 3883 for cache chasers, you can look it up also on the www.state.pa.com site and search the keyword hunting. If you read this resolution, it really comes down to money/income for the state. It is just a bummer, Sunday was our favorite day to cache, and we love to cache in the cooler months, before heavy snow. Quote Link to comment
Pto Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 It's time to wear orange whether you are sure of an area or not. I agree 100% ! Anytime I venture into the woods, generally from Labor day on I wear at_very_least a Blaze orange ball cap. Anytime after mid September when grouse/duck season, bow deer hunting, then rifle season begin its Always a Blaze vest, hat and if needed my gloves. I also hunt, so its just second nature for me (common sense in my book) It really helps make others aware of where you are, and that you are Not the furry creature they are intent on blasting. I avoid caching in any known hunting areas, since my presence could most likely interfere with the hunting in that area. Nothing makes a guy in a tree stand madder than some fool tromping thru the area they are watching - or scaring up a flock of mallards 2 guys have been creeping on all afternoon. Angry hunters with guns............angry at You . . . . . (Of course, wearing orange allows them to track you down easier.... Quote Link to comment
E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 I think underneath it all, my beef with this is why couldn't Sunday have stayed a non-hunting day in PA? But that was decided on a level way above my head, so I certainly don't wish to engage everyone in a knock-down drag-out debate about it. What's done is done. Quote Link to comment
E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 (edited) this topic was just in time with the new safety vests! there is my answer! Edited October 7, 2004 by E&D Quote Link to comment
Dukie 'n' Dad Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Believe it or not, the more remote you are, the safer you will be as most trouble occurs in easy access areas. Certainly wear something non-natural in color. Blaze Orange is good, but a lime green or really bright yellow can work too. Noise helps in some areas depending on the terrain. In Texas, you hunt at 200-300 yards so nobody would hear you, but in New England a 100 yd shot is unusual and most are < 30 yards so you are likely to be heard. Encourage the kids to sing. () Seriously, the best choice is to avoid the hunting areas if possible. Remember, state game laws are there to control animal population and if hunters didn't take a calculated number each year, the population would grow too large to support and many would die of starvation. Regardless of anyone's opinion of the 'hunt', it does serve a valuable purpose and it is a lot cheaper to let those who WANT to go hunt control populations than raising taxes to have government do it. On another note, leave Fido at home. Their actions are more likely to be seen as 'target' than yours and even with a orange coat are not nearly as safe. Dukie and I stick to the no hunting zones this time of year. Hunters are not nearly all that bad. Just like the bad drivers are a pretty small minority, so are the bad hunters. I have found a lot of nice local businesses talking to hunters. One of my favorite meat butchers was recommended by a hunter. Now I have a nice local supply of venison, bear, jerky, and other stuff not usually found fresh. Quote Link to comment
E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 I do know many safe hunters, and I hope by my post that you all don't think I wander around in camo caching during hunting season. We always wear bright colors and take precautions, my husband hunts as well as the rest of my family. Of course culling the herds is necessary, I'm not attacking hunting in general. I think anyone who grew up here in McKean/Elk County realizes it is a huge part of both men's and women's lives, but I'm still going to miss my Sunday! Quote Link to comment
+The red-haired witch Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Well, I never even thought some places would regulate hunting according to the day of the week (is that for religious reasons?), but hunting is definitely permitted on Sundays in Canada, though the big game hunting season is rather short. Two good ways to stay safe : the security vests, as other people have said, are good (as long as you don't meet color-blind hunters), but even better is going caching in parks where hunting is not allowed... if you have those in the States And don't go caching in a fur coat! Quote Link to comment
E&D Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 i'm sure it started out for religious reasons, but after reading the legislature, that was not addressed in any way. they did have some good reasons, beside the greed, about people need more exercise, blah blah blah. I guess the thrill of caching can't compete with hunting I know how hard it is to find time to get out there for everyone. One nice thing about PA is that there is a plethora of places to hunt and hike at the time. not sure how trusting to be, i'll keep the situation scoped out. while in my orange snowsuit with orange paint on my face and orange boots on Quote Link to comment
+Team Willow Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I might be wrong, but I think that this is being blown out of proportion. I believe that bill (House Bill 326?) only provides for the hunting of antlered dears on Sunday. That’s a two week season after Thanksgiving. Further, I think that it’s only applicable on the gamelands, state parks/forests, and certain federal lands (moot anyway). You know, hunting was never completely precluded on Sunday– foxes and coyotes are fair game. If this bill has become a law that’s news to me. However, I’m certainly not in the legislative loop, so if anybody has further insight, let’s hear it. Quote Link to comment
+ironman114 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I believe if you did some research you would find there is a greater chance of getting hit by a stray bullit in city/urban areas than in the country during hunting season. How many of you refuse to enter a city/urban area because of fear of getting hit by a stray bullit? Quote Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 How many of you refuse to enter a city/urban area because of fear of getting hit by a stray bullit? *raises hand* But not because I fear bullets. I hate cities. Back on point, I would not avoid going somewhere, but that does not preclude taking safety precautions when you know firearms are going to be in an area. And as always, no matter where a cache is, if someone doesn't feel comfy for whatever reason, their safety is in their hands. They have to make the decision for themselves. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I believe if you did some research you would find there is a greater chance of getting hit by a stray bullit in city/urban areas than in the country during hunting season. How many of you refuse to enter a city/urban area because of fear of getting hit by a stray bullit? That's true. While there are hunting accidents every year they are almost ALL hunter/hunter. A non hunter being accidently shot by a hunter is extremely rare. You're more likely to be struck by lightning while looking for the cache. Still, take common sense precautions like wearing orange and if you hear shots try another spot. Do not, and I repeat DO NOT wear a white fanny pack, a suede jacket and tie branches to your head and walk around the woods. This can be very dangerous. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 According to an article in The Erie Times News, they are looking at various options for Sunday hunting. As mentioned, select areas, select seasons, etc. However, it all will come down to MONEY $$$. That has already become their argument to refute opposition to the bill. " But, think of all the added BUSINESS it will bring to your communities." There have been issues raised as to religious reasons (ie, sabbath), agricultural reasons, and having one day without gunfire, brought out. I used to hunt, but quit when I watched a dozen hunters shooting from the road into the side yard of a home at deer that were pushed out through private property. I don't condemn hunting, but personally, I want to see sunday left hunter free. Theres no way I'll venture into the woods for a cache during hunting season, no matter how much orange I have on. Quote Link to comment
+Phone guy Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Well I am an avid hunter. I live in California and we are not required to where orange while hunting(some states have this requirement). You have a much greater chance of crashing on the way to the woods than being shot by a hunter. If the hunters scare you, then stay home and by all means don't drive!!! I do not know any hunter that just shoots at any moving object and I don't know any hunters that have a desire to shoot another person. In fact they may notice you in the woods but we dont look much like deer. Most accidents occur due to a hunter dropping his or her gun while with thier buddies or shooting him or herself while unloading the gun. I know these cases are so few that even here in the most populated state in the country it hardly happens. Quote Link to comment
+strikeforce1 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 One way to avoid the uncomfortable feeling, is to go caching during the week, do some night caching, and “urban” caching. Next weekend bow opens up here in NY, it’s not bad till gun opens. Leave Friday, Saturday and Sunday for the hunters. Those are the most used days of the week except for opening day and the immediate Saturday and Sunday. Then the final weekend of the gun season would be the next busiest times. If you need to go out to public land, call ahead, if you can. Ask if they allow gun hunting. Some county/state land is not open to hunting/ or gun hunting. Others are open to bow hunting only. --Bow hunters will usually see you coming, before you see them.-- They are dressed in camo. You should be wearing “Blaze Orange” NOW! Get a baseball cap and vest, about $15 at your local hunting/fishing shops. Go caching and enjoy! SF1 Quote Link to comment
Rupert2 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 I am a hunter and a cacher. Unfortunately I am not familar with the hunting laws in PA. What kind of hunting is allowed? If you are dealing with bow or slug gun season, there is not alot of reason to worry. Typically a responsible hunter will not take shot with either of these from more than 30 to 40 yards (of course you never now who is responsible and who is not). The range of these is fairly short. If rifle hunting is allowed, just stay the heck out of the public lands (hunting with rifles in not allowed in Indiana so I do not have to worry about that). Keep in mind that unless there is an advertised special hunt, there should not be any hunting in state or local parks. Typically hunting is limited to public lands such as state recreational areas or state forrest (check your local listings for correct terminology). Other than that, hunting should be limited to private property. Most of the public parks should be free of hunters and OK for caching. Cache On! Rupert2 Quote Link to comment
+GeoRoo Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 I didn't know there was a state that didn't allow hunting on certain days. That's not right!..... Wear bright clothing and you should be fine. Pick up a copy of your states hunting regs or check online and know what areas are open to rifle hunting and stay out of those places. There are plenty of in town, parks, no hunting areas I would think in PA that you could cache everyday of the week and never worry about seeing a hunter. I would bet you're far more likely to get injured in your drive to and from caching than by any hunter. As much as the animal rights activists would have you believe, there aren't hoards of drunken hunters out there taking pop shots at everything that moves. Well, at least not here in WA state...... Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Sounds like you're better off hunting than caching during hunting season. At least you can shoot back! Quote Link to comment
+RoyalRed Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hunting season is why the great geocaching gods invented urban micros. Quote Link to comment
+BadAndy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 There are states that ban hunting on sundays??? Quote Link to comment
+Tread-n-Lightly Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Do not, and I repeat DO NOT wear a white fanny pack, a suede jacket and tie branches to your head and walk around the woods. This can be very dangerous. ROTFLMAO You guys KILL me.... haaahaahaaa oh, sorry I got a mental picture of that one..... T-n-L Quote Link to comment
+Prof_Fate Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 THere is a cache near me on State Game Lands that i got near a couple of weeks ago, and thought i'd try again on Saturday - oops, opening of small game season - there were no less than 7 trucks at the trail head, some of the hunters were milling about in their orange. Umm, no way in heck i'd go wandering in there and crawling about the underbrush looing for a cache. Just my luck, i'd be on my knees, take off my orange hat and gloves, and the cache would have a stuffed rabbit it in that i'd set on the side and sure enough, i'd get shot. Many county parks around here to cull the deer population allow a short bow or shotgun deer season as well. PA seasons... http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&q=151322 and as for the suggestions to go at night... http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter141/s141.4.html to quote "Raccoon, fox, skunk, opossum, coyote, bobcat and weasel may be taken any hour, day or night," And while non-hunters getting shot is rare, there are 3 or 4 HOUSES that get shot every year....accidentally...i think last year someone died when the bullet went through their home. Chris Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 There are states that ban hunting on sundays??? New Jersey is one....though with all the deer we have here, it would be better if they allowed hunting all year round. Agent Orange on hooves we call them. Quote Link to comment
+Two Geeks and a GPS Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hunter and cacher here. WEAR ORANGE!!! I personally do not hunt the deer gun season on public land. I did once and it scared the hell out me. Agreed, most hunters are careful and all the rest, but if you cram hundreds of people in a parcel of woods there can be problems. The sun came up and it sounded like a battle. As I looked around, I saw no less than ten other hunters (in orange) within 100ft of me. In the dark, nobody knew anybody else was there! That's not hunting. On topic. Cachers have as much right to the woods as hunters. Each group needs to respect the rights of others. Since I do both, I am better able to avoid hunters while caching, I know what to look for. I would still avoid caching in lands open to big game gun hunting. Small game, bird, and bowhunters, because of the nature of their sport and weapon are far less likely to shoot at "something" rather than actually seeing their target. The projectiles also travel alot less distance on a legit miss. Quote Link to comment
+niskibum Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 A few things to consider before denying hunters their chosen sport on Sundays for what I suspect started out as a religious reason, which would be unconstitutional due to seperation of church and state. 1. Hunters pay a lot of money to participate in what is a very short season for most, and the money they pay in the form of tags and liscenses primarily goes to conservation of wildlife in your area. This is outside of the normal taxes that everyone pays, along with expenses such as camping gear, rifles, ammunition, etc. How much do you pay to be in the woods? 2. You can cache all year round, and can select which areas to go to according to your preferences, not what the rulebooks tell you when and where you can. Hunters (the legal ones)have to follow very specific rules that you are not subject to. 3. How would you feel if the new rules stated that due to hunting season you are no longer allowed to go into the woods to geocache from Sep. to Dec.? Banning hunting on Sundays so that non hunters can go into the woods without having to hear rifle shots is essentialy the same thing. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Yes, there are bad hunters out there that make "sound shots", but you have the option of finding caches in other areas during those seasons if you are worried about it. Hunters don't have those kinds of options. Luckily in Idaho we don't have such silly laws (although we have enough of our own), so the only thing I can't do on Sunday is buy liquor (another stupid religous reason I'm sure). So in short, go find some other place to cache hunt during hunting season. The hunters will appreciate your not crashing through the woods scaring all the game, and you'll be less likely to have to deal with Bambi running out in front of your BMW on the way home from caching next spring. Everyone wins. Quote Link to comment
rescue557 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Does wearing orange do the trick? I'll be looking like an orange fireball if so. I've talked to a few hunters about hiking during hunting season. Their advice is to make a LOT of noise that sounds like human activity, such as shouting, blowing whistles, etc. Since hunters must remain perfectly silent to allow animals to come to them freely, making noise scares away the animals and the hunters will accordingly move away from you (likely in disgust) in search of quieter surroundings. My solution is to wear blaze orange, stay near public places such as roads, and create a lot of noise. Quote Link to comment
+GeoRoo Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 With that advice I'd say you would up your chances of getting shot about ten fold. Hunting is being attacked from all sides now days and anyone out in the woods blowing a whistle, making an excessive amount of noise shouting etc. puts a target on their back as a antihunter. Many areas are singled out by animal rights activists and "protested" in just that manner. Our state (WA) several years ago passed a law preventing these groups from acting in this manner as it was getting so volitial that someone was going to get killed. The further from a road you go the less chance you'll see hunters. I'm amused by some the stereotypes I see coming out in this thread by nonhunters. There is some form of hunting 365 days a year in our state and there isn't a crazed drunk hunter waiting behind every tree just ready to shoot you!..... My advice as a hunter of 30 plus years is to be aware of your surroundings and use some common sense. Have an idea of the major hunting seasons and dress appropriately. You have a much higher chance of a rabid squirrel biting you and dying than getting killed by a hunter, so enjoy the woods and get out there and find that cache before the snow covers it up. Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 and the hunters will accordingly move away from you (likely in disgust) in search of quieter surroundings. Or they will just shoot you to get you to be quite As a geocacher and someone that enjoys a relaxing day of hunting, I stand by all the previously mentioned comments about wearing plenty of blaze orange. Quote Link to comment
Bobthearch Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Working in the National Forests in Arkansas, we stayed home for the entire duration of gun season. Just too many shooters out there all at once, and it seems there were fatalities every year. Of course they were mostly hunter-hunter shootings, who else is out there? For bow season we went out, but wore plenty of orange. -Bob Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Two good ways to stay safe : <snip> but even better is going caching in parks where hunting is not allowed... this past sunday i was caching in a clearly posted NO HUNTING ZONE, so i was not wearing my BRIGHT RED COAT and FLASHING LIGHT. guess who i ran into? yup, three guys with rifles. none of 'em took a shot at me, or even looked to have been likely to do so, but still. and then i ran into a nice couple later on on the same trail network and told them to watch out for hunters. they very angrily told me that hunters are not permitted there. "i know", i said. "but i am not a game warden and do not think it prudent to argue with armed men." somehow they still seemed to think it was my fault. oy. Quote Link to comment
+trail hound Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 niskibum said it best.... Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 (edited) Banning hunting on Sundays so that non hunters can go into the woods without having to hear rifle shots is essentialy the same thing. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Yes, there are bad hunters out there that make "sound shots", but you have the option of finding caches in other areas during those seasons if you are worried about it. Hunters don't have those kinds of options. Luckily in Idaho we don't have such silly laws (although we have enough of our own), so the only thing I can't do on Sunday is buy liquor (another stupid religous reason I'm sure). No hunting on Sundays is to give the deer... ...a chance to cache. No booze on Sundays should be changed to allow booze on Sundays and no booze Monday through Saturday. Who needs drunken hunters? Edited October 26, 2004 by Alan2 Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 i will not stay out of the woods just because it's hunting season; something is always in season and hunters are always out there. i have no problem with legal hunters using legal areas in a responsible fashion. i have a little problem with guys hunting on clearly posted land from ATVs leaving a trail of empty beer cans. it only takes one of these bozos to really mess things up for everybody. aside from the fact that they were hunting on land that was VERY, VERY posted, the guys i ran into sunday were sensible guys who were not taking potshots or nervously figering the trigger,waiting for something to move. they were hunters, as opposed to guys with guns. it's an important distinction. when i am in the woods, i wear an unnatural color. i am careful to make distinctive noise as i walk; not crashing or yelling, but the purposeful sound of a person's gait, which has a rhythm not duplicated by any animal. i don't stomp loudly, but neither do i walk stealthily. i want those guys to be able to hear me clearly. if i break my stride and am nervous that there are hunters that i think are present but i can't see, i'll whistle just enough of a tune for them to know clearly that i am a person. a few notes will do it. from my experience this does not frighten wildlife off. wildlife are for the most part accustomed to seeing and hearing human traffic. once i have seen hunters and know they have seen me, i become very, very quiet, but not suddenly quiet. any deer that would be frightened off would just as surely be frightened off by my sudden stopping of activity. any hunter that has seen me is a hunter i feel comfortable being near. ..unless he's that guy we saw last year riding his ATV with a gun in his hand and a beer on the seat. i am always nervous when i see a guy noticing me notice his failure to hunt legally. seems to me that being an unarmed person in a remote area witnessing firearms and hunting violations is an untenable position... Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 they were hunters, as opposed to guys with guns. it's an important distinction. The problem is not knowing whether those guys around the bend waiting for a shot at game are hunters or, well, just guys with guns!! Quote Link to comment
+Runaround Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I've talked to a few hunters about hiking during hunting season. Their advice is to make a LOT of noise that sounds like human activity, such as shouting, blowing whistles, etc. In Ohio that could get you a ticket or arrested. It's against the law to purposely disrupt a hunt a in a known hunting area. The rangers watch for this sort of activity and they have a wide range of discretion when to ticket. The best advice is to go caching somewhere else for a few months and let the hunters have their chance. If you must be in a hunting area, wear blaze. Avoid red, blue, brown, or white. I don't hunt anymore but I still buy a hunting license and duck stamps. An overwhelming percentage of the money goes back into programs that support conservation and wildlife. Plus, it help keeps the friendly park ranger who supports caching employed. Quote Link to comment
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