+briansnat Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 To the truth of the matter, GC.com is _a_ listing service. *Any* cache is viable without even being accepted here (even one under a RR track in a NP). As soon as it's in the wild, it can be found and if that means utilizing a certain loophole in how things are listed here, that's the way it goes BINGO! A lot of people just don't get this. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips. I was using "hacked" in a colloquial way. I think my point was a little clearer than you made it out to be. For the record, however, I'm not against people using the information they're given to be the FTF, I simply think that the loopholes such as this should be closed by TPTB. Quote Link to comment
+planetrobert Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips. I was using "hacked" in a colloquial way. I think my point was a little clearer than you made it out to be. For the record, however, I'm not against people using the information they're given to be the FTF, I simply think that the loopholes such as this should be closed by TPTB. if they are closed then some of us will figure out how they encode the url's and then the secret will be out again. I think that fixing this should be right after the iraq forum in priority Quote Link to comment
+CompuCash Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips. I was using "hacked" in a colloquial way. I think my point was a little clearer than you made it out to be. For the record, however, I'm not against people using the information they're given to be the FTF, I simply think that the loopholes such as this should be closed by TPTB. whywhen there is a simple work around - just don't drop your bugs until the cache is approved - I learned that lesson - doesn't seem that hard to me - Quote Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 (edited) To the truth of the matter, GC.com is _a_ listing service. *Any* cache is viable without even being accepted here (even one under a RR track in a NP). As soon as it's in the wild, it can be found and if that means utilizing a certain loophole in how things are listed here, that's the way it goes BINGO! A lot of people just don't get this. Agreed. God forbid that a muggle finds the cache before it gets listed... would that count? ---------- I think that it might be a good idea for TPTB to put a disclaimer in the cache creation process that says "If you put TB's in caches that haven't been approved you may allow others to find the cache before approval". Of course, I also think it is a good idea to close the loophole, to prevent the POSSIBILITY of somebody hiding a cache in a dangerous and/or offlimits location and people looking for it before it can be "archived" (not approved) by the approvers. ------- Incidentally - why not invite the person who emailed you to this thread? Seems that most people are in agreement that this isn't that big of a deal - but the person who emailed you should be allowed to see this. sd Edited September 24, 2004 by southdeltan Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips. I was using "hacked" in a colloquial way. I think my point was a little clearer than you made it out to be. For the record, however, I'm not against people using the information they're given to be the FTF, I simply think that the loopholes such as this should be closed by TPTB. if they are closed then some of us will figure out how they encode the url's and then the secret will be out again. I think that fixing this should be right after the iraq forum in priority I'd seriously reply, but your last line seems to imply that you were just arguing for the sake of arguing. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 whywhen there is a simple work around - just don't drop your bugs until the cache is approved - I learned that lesson - doesn't seem that hard to me - I agree its not hard, but people usually don't learn the lesson until after they've done it once or thrice. Let me ask it this way, if you don't want a loophole such as this closed, are you, or have you, used it in the past to find a cache? If not, what do you care? Would it be particularly difficult to close the loop? Quote Link to comment
+strikeforce1 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 ... underlines... I have to admit I've clicked on one or two links only to have nothing happen. Sorry RK ! I guess I started a new thread without knowing it. I'll put a pad lock on the underline tags after this comment, and don't click on it ......... it's just underlined . Jamie , I'm not "old school". After so many years, an auto is considered an "antique". I fall into the "historical" class. OK, no more underline police work required. I'll save the underlines for "hyper-links" only. ! SF1 Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 ... underlines... I have to admit I've clicked on one or two links only to have nothing happen. Sorry RK ! I guess I started a new thread without knowing it. I'll put a pad lock on the underline tags after this comment, and don't click on it ......... it's just underlined . Jamie , I'm not "old school". After so many years, an auto is considered an "antique". I fall into the "historical" class. OK, no more underline police work required. I'll save the underlines for "hyper-links" only. ! SF1 Just wanted to point out what I use when I "underline" something of greater importance. First, it's fast. Second, it's not confused for a link. Just put an _underscore_ before and after the words you'd normally add the "underline" tag to. Works well. Quote Link to comment
+strikeforce1 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Let me ask it this way, if you don't want a loophole such as this closed, are you, or have you, used it in the past to find a cache? Until recently, NO ! I never had a need to use it. I usually just clicked on Buxley's and looked at a glance as to what's new. Now I have a PQ set up, emailed to me daily, to do the same thing. Which may/may not help contribute to the clog, on the GC site. Which is heavily discussed in another thread. But now, I will probably have to use it, to get the 10 minute jump on some one else. SF1 Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Incidentally - why not invite the person who emailed you to this thread? Seems that most people are in agreement that this isn't that big of a deal - but the person who emailed you should be allowed to see this. He said he was doing that in his Sep 24 2004, 02:32 AM post. Quote Link to comment
+strikeforce1 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Just wanted to point out what I use when I "underline" something of greater importance. First, it's fast. Second, it's not confused for a link.Just put an _underscore_ before and after the words you'd normally add the "underline" tag to. Works well. Neat Idea! For sure a quicker shortcut! I'm going to start an OT thread on this. We've hijacked too much on this thread, already. Thanks ! SF1 Quote Link to comment
+Robespierre Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I would kill them and turn myself in. While in my jail cell, I would carve my bar of soap into a "GPSr" and pace around my cell mumbling things like "I know it's around here somewhere"...and..."I can't get very good reception inside these cement walls". Every now and then when the guard passes I'd pounce on something in the room (the mattress corner, pillow, mirror) and scream "I *FOUND* IT!...First to find! First to find!". Be sure to trade some lint for a cigarette and sign the bottom of whatever you "found". Come trial time, they'll deem you not guilty by mental defect and you can sober up in the mental ward in a month and be free to use TB coordinates to find non-offset caches. That's what I thought you'd do. Quote Link to comment
+Mr.Benchmark Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I'm aware of what he could do. But as I see it, I have nothing to lose..... I earned those bugs, and I earned that FTF. I used info they had, I just used it first. I think you have the right attitude. You certainly seem to be in the right on this matter. You found it fair and square. The other fellow seems pretty unreasonable. Best of luck to you, I certainly hope the actions of others don't spoil your enjoyment of the game. Quote Link to comment
+planetrobert Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips. I was using "hacked" in a colloquial way. I think my point was a little clearer than you made it out to be. For the record, however, I'm not against people using the information they're given to be the FTF, I simply think that the loopholes such as this should be closed by TPTB. if they are closed then some of us will figure out how they encode the url's and then the secret will be out again. I think that fixing this should be right after the iraq forum in priority I'd seriously reply, but your last line seems to imply that you were just arguing for the sake of arguing. not at all, more along the lines of, 'I think there a lot of much more important things to fix first.' The coordinate info will have to be passed along somehow at some point and then all this will be brought up again. I think without a MAJOR effort this is not an easy ifx. Quote Link to comment
+Team Tigger International Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Someone must have been paying attention to this thread. The grab backs have been removed from the TB and the Coin. Quote Link to comment
+Wreck Diver Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Chess isn't a game of great skill or of cunning, it is simply recognizing mistakes and exploiting them to one's advantage. Allowing the mistakes to continue to occur and be exploited doesn't make the game any less valid. While I am not into the whole FTFBA drive, I can't condemn it if it is an ongoing weakness that's well-reported and generally open to anyone with the same attention to detail and motivation. If you have concerns about the FTFBA weakness, then wait for approval before placing the travel bugs in the cache. Until the web-side coding issue is corrected, it IS user correctable with simple patience. Quote Link to comment
+1stimestar Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 So can you physically place a tb in a cache and just not log it until your cache has been approved? I'm just learning all the intricacies and cachaquette. Quote Link to comment
+Eartha Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Someone must have been paying attention to this thread. The grab backs have been removed from the TB and the Coin. The bug and the coin still show as being in the hands of Saso792. Why they would grab back a bug they do not have in their possession is beyond me. The whole e-mail situation bothers me. Especially coming from a deputy sherriff. 7, you are right not to respond in any way except mailing them the link to this thread, although that will probably inflame them even more, seeing that most people feel you did nothing wrong. No need to fuel a flame. You do not have to look for their caches and they don't have to look for yours, sad as that mey be. But the whole thing was blown way out of proportion when he sent you that first e-mail. Letting the whole thing die down is the best way to go now. Quote Link to comment
+strikeforce1 Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 So can you physically place a tb in a cache and just not log it until your cache has been approved? Yes, you can place it in the container. Just don't log it online until the cache has been approved! If the cache doesn't get the green light, just go back and pull the container/contents and the tb. Then drop the tb elsewhere. SF1 Quote Link to comment
+1stimestar Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 So can you physically place a tb in a cache and just not log it until your cache has been approved? Yes, you can place it in the container. Just don't log it online until the cache has been approved! If the cache doesn't get the green light, just go back and pull the container/contents and the tb. Then drop the tb elsewhere. SF1 Thanks! Quote Link to comment
+SeventhSon Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 I'm sure some of you are curious about how this turned out. The owner hasn't contacted me since that first email, and I haven't contacted him since I replied with a link to this thread. I'm not sure if he has read any of this, but I'm guessing he has. Even though I felt it was the wrong thing to do, I decided to return the bugs to the cache. Do I feel cheated? It's hard to think of anyone being cheated in a game where there is no winner, but, yes, I do feel a little cheated. While bugs are not a major part of my caching, I do grab the ones that grab my interest. The FTF bug is a great idea. A good way to start new caches, and I was planning on putting it in one of my new caches I'm working on. I guess it'll have to settle with being the Second To Find bug this time. The POW bug, another great idea, a very interesting coin. When I get to the cache, what do I find? A container that is empty, except for my trade item. I have to admit, for the first time since this all started, I actually felt mad... because of a game! My first thought: hmm, geotrache, I better CITO this container. But, that's not the way I play. So I took my trade back, placed the item I traded for in the container, along with the bugs. Somehow, the bugs ended up back in my inventory, but I have no way of logging them into an empty container, so they'll sit until someone grabs them from me. If you haven't noticed, the cache has not yet been approved, which makes sense now since it is not actually a cache anymore. If it does become active, I will log it, I will date my find log with the date that I found it, and I will mark it as an FTF. What he does after that is up to him. I will always know I found it first. I will continue to cache as I always have. No one will steal that from me. Thanks to everyone who took the time to voice an opinion. 7 Quote Link to comment
+Robespierre Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I think that what you did was the right thing...or at the very least, you made the effort to solve a problem. Now what will really suck is if you still have to take some crap for it. I hope not. Congratulations on doing well. I hope you can resolve to be at peace about it too. Quote Link to comment
+Spencersb Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 (edited) Okay, I'm lost now. You went back to the cache and found it empty? Someone took everything (except the trade item YOU left in it) out? Even the log book? But left the (nearly) empty container? You don't suppose this "conversation" took place do you? "I'll show Seventh Son! I'll trash MY OWN CACHE! That'll teach him" Edited September 27, 2004 by Spencersb Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 not at all, more along the lines of, 'I think there a lot of much more important things to fix first.' The coordinate info will have to be passed along somehow at some point and then all this will be brought up again. I think without a MAJOR effort this is not an easy ifx. I figured since you were quoting me, it was tongue-in-cheek. If not, I agree that there may be bigger fish to fry. Quote Link to comment
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