Ftfba

[+SeventhSon]

FTFBA = First To Find Before Approval

 

I know I'm not the first one who has done this, but I'm definately the first in my area. I found one today before it was approved. How did I do it? I was watching a bug that was placed in the cache and received the email alert as anyone watching it would, as would the bug owner. In this email, there are five links: the log entry, the bug's page, the cache hider's profile, the cache page itself and a search for caches from this location.

 

In this last link, right there in blue and white, are the coordinates that are or will be listed on the cache page, shown in decimal degrees. If the cache is a traditional, those coordinates are to the cache, and anyone owning a bug or watching a bug that is logged into a cache before it is approved now has the coordinates.

 

I found the cache using this method, and grabbed a couple bugs. They were "grabbed" back from me because one was "stolen from a cache" and one was "taken in a dis-honest manner". Then I received this email:

 

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate.  Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

 

I used information provide to me by GC.com. Information anyone can get by owning or watching a bug. I don't feel as though I'm a thief or dishonest or that I have broken any rules.

 

I could use some feedback on this, especially anyone who has logged an FTFBA or had one logged on one of their caches. I'll take an opinion from anyone, good or bad.

 

7

[+planetrobert]

i think it is 100% fair

 

if they don't want that information out to the public don't post the bug drop till it is approved.

 

i have done it a couple times, also found two that i had ZERO knowledge of, even before they were even listed.

 

here is one i found before it was even submited for approval by like 2 days... Give me a quarter.

Edited September 24, 2004 by ralann

[+Renegade Knight]

Good question.

 

I don't watch TB's so I really haven't had the chance to do that. Though I might if I ever get the urge to Ace our local FTF kings. Since no one person dominates FTF here there is no reason to 'ace' them.

 

Anyway, the bug was placed. It was reported as placed. It may be a flaw in the system but that is the system, and it is fair to grab a bug that has been placed in a cache. That’s why they are out there.

 

As for finding before approval. You found it, you get it. But the catch 22 is that if the cache is one that isn't approvable for reasons of being in NPS, lands, Too close to a Rail Road, in a sensative location etc. It would not be a good thing.

 

If you did that to one of my caches I'd congratulate you on your ingenuity and never put a bug in a cache I don't want found before approval again.

 

I know I haven't given you a clear answer but that's my thoughts on it.

[+Sagefox]

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate. 

This guy is all wet. Your find is a combination of luck and cleaverness but you found the cache none the less and if you signed the logbook then you are the FTF and, I assume, you have the bugs in your possession. I can't imagine anyone else trying to claim FTF after seeing your name in the logbook.

 

If he reports this to gc.com I'm sure they would not consider your action as a problem. In fact I would be a bit worried if I were him. He was wrong to "grab" bugs that you have in your possession.

 

I'm surprised that someone with his experience would take your find so negatively rather than giving you credit for being lucky. I'm amazed at some of the things that tick people off.

 

If it were me and if I was from the same area as this guy I would keep a low profile and not get into an email war that might cause an escalation. I'm sure I would draw a line in the sand though at his request that you take the bugs back to his cache. I'd probably take his tb and place it in a nearby cache asap and then place the other one at my convenience. I would probably write an inert, simple email to him stating that I disagree with his interpretation and that his bug will be in another nearby cache asap and then try not to respond to any future nastiness from him. You did nothing wrong and taking the bugs back to his cache because he demands it rubs me the wrong way.

 

If he wants to keep on this rag he can delete your find of the cache and his bug and even though that would be reportable to gc.com I don't think I would. In the big picture it won't matter to your stats if he takes these from you. If he doesn't drop it there though and keeps harrassing you then I'd report him immediately. Hopefully this will pass quietly.

 

Good luck.

[+ShadowAce]

Yeah, there was a wallet there but it had no ID in it and I found it. If it had not have been there in the open I would not have found it so it is a legal find and I am entitled to keep the money.

 

You might agree, but the wife of the man who was slain in the parking lot will see it differently.

 

His cache. His Opinion.

 

Your find. Your opinion.

 

If you have to get others to say you are correct then maybe there is an issue to start with. If you dont like there attitude, dont go for there caches.

 

If it was not an approved cache, I would delete any logs posted as they are not found. You cannot find a cache before it is a approved, Until this point it is just a container. Then again, everyone has there own opinion. This was mine.

[+briansnat]

This was pretty common back when people could view caches in the approval queue if they knew the URL. Some people would keep typing in the next sequential cache number to see of there was one awaiting approval in the area.

 

It's not something I would do, but I really don't see the big deal. The owner placed the cache so it would be found and the TB's so they would be taken and moved around and you did just that.

 

He's gonna report you? For what? And how is he going to keep you from logging his caches? I guess by deleting your legit found it logs, which in my eyes is a far greater transgression than jumping the gun on a cache hunt.

[+strikeforce1]

I found the cache using this method, and grabbed a couple bugs. They were "grabbed" back from me because one was "stolen from a cache" and one was "taken in a dis-honest manner". Then I received this email:

 

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate.  Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

7

Congrads 7 on the FTFBA.

 

I tried to look up the cache to post the gc# for all to see. I think you have a disgruntal person on your hands. <snip> "I will report you to the GeoCache Web site " </snip>, and what ?? ...... You found it legally, logged the find - well not yet "it's still not approved" and logged off the tb's. All is legal, from this side .

 

So, you're suppose to bring back the tb's ...... "I don't think so" they were taken fair and square. If they don't like it .... too bad! If they "grabbed it" back from you... it will sit in limbo. They can't drop it , because you have it.

 

I'd wait till the cache is posted, then re-log-off the tb's. And post a message in your log, that you will not play this game, with the cache owner. If he/she chooses to delete your logs, so be it. We'll all know how low that person is. I would also post to the tb page that you have the tb's and explain that you will do your best to move them towards their goal.

 

If by chance one of the tb's are the cache owners, let him delete your log. It's his tb that isn't moving right.

 

<snip> "I will make sure everyone knows how you operate"</snip> and nobody will know how he/she operates. Too funny!

 

Keep us posted, I'll have to "tap" your profile and watch to see your log.

At any rate don't loose sleep over it, just go caching and enjoy. SF1

[+Sagefox]

How wonderfully ironic.

 

His tb page has a note on it that says (paraphrased) "It would be good to place this travel bug on your watch list to give you a heads up on new listings."

[+SeventhSon]

Just for clarification, the bugs do not belong to the cache hider, but to two of his buddies.

 

7

Edited September 24, 2004 by SeventhSon

[+Sagefox]

Just for clarification, the bugs do not belong to the cache hider, but to two of his buddies.

O.k. I see they each have a different number following the name.

[+strikeforce1]

After doing some checking, I had to re-read the bottom half of the button, but I got there first! Yes you did. Here's the link to the tb FTF tb.

 

Being it's his I wouldn't log it, till he sends you an email about moving it. Yes, let it sit. Maybe he will cool off. Or if you want to fume him, do a drop and retriever once a week in various caches. Your still legal in moving it, just not with his wishes/goals.

 

I would attempt to log your finds properly, if he deletes them, here would be my solution.

 

Now if it was me, I might place it in a seldom hit 4.5x4.5 and let him go retrieve it.

Sorry for being a tad bit nasty, but he should not have grabbed it from you.

 

SF1

[+Sagefox]

Being it's his I wouldn't log it, till he sends you an email about moving it. Yes, let it sit. Maybe he will cool off. Or if you want to fume him, do a drop and retriever once a week in various caches.  Your still legal in moving it, just not with his wishes/goals...

...Now if it was me, I might place it in a seldom hit 4.5x4.5 and let him go retrieve it.

Sorry for being a tad bit nasty, but he should not have grabbed it from you.

One should be prepared to lose some of their caches before they take this course.

 

I know about Salina, KS. My wife was born and lived there for many years. It is not a big metropolis. These two will have to continue the game in close proximity to each other. A quiet death of this fracus would be best. Let the guy get out of it without losing face.

Edited September 24, 2004 by Team Sagefox

[+SeventhSon]

If you have to get others to say you are correct then maybe there is an issue to start with. If you dont like there attitude, dont go for there caches.

 

If it was not an approved cache, I would delete any logs posted as they are not found. You cannot find a cache before it is a approved, Until this point it is just a container. Then again, everyone has there own opinion. This was mine.

I'm asking others' opinions because there are two sides to every story. He sees it his way, I see it mine. I don't think I've done anything wrong, but I might be missing something.

 

I have emailed him a link to this thread so he can read it and post if he sees fit.

 

7

[+mtn-man]

I know about Salina, KS. My wife was born and lived there for many years. It is not a big metropolis. These two will have to continue the game in close proximity to each other. A quiet death of this fracus would be best. Let the guy get out of it without losing face.

I think this is good advise. It would probably be better to try to "be the better man" and let it blow over. I will tell you that the site will not get involved in disputes over deleted logs. I know, I have been there myself. I do think it is wrong to deny your found it log if you found the cache personally, but it is their cache and they can treat found it logs as they wish.

[+norbu]

you could even try going one step further and make nice-nice.

[+briansnat]

you could even try going one step further and make nice-nice.

But if the story is as SS says, he really didn't do anything wrong, and this guy jumped all over him. I think his e-mail was incredibly rude. Even if SS did something wrong, it could have been worded a lot more tactfully. "I will report you to the GeoCache Web site ", "it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again", " I'm a little tired of you and your games", then accusing SS of stealing the TB. Is that any way to open a dialog with someone? I'd tell the guy where he could shove his caches and TB until he apologizes.

 

Instead of:

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate.  Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

 

He could have tried this:

Hi, I see you found my cache before it was approved.  While I applaud your resourcefullness, I'd rather you didn't do that with my caches. I like for everyone to get an equal chance at a FTF.  Since you were the FTF, feel free to keep the bug and move it along in accordance with its mission but in the future, please wait until my caches are approved before seeking them.  Thanks!

Edited September 24, 2004 by briansnat

[+Robespierre]

OK, you've waited long enough. It's time for the right opinion.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

If it were I? I might well have committed the first offense, along with you. I have offerend ftf coords to my own caches, but KA was so fast on the approval...

 

But now that we're in a pickle which we didn't want to be in: we meant well.

My email would be conciliatory. My behavior would be contrite. I'd give him whatever he wants...to a point. I don't think the "sin" is yours, but if it is, fix it. If the "sin" is his, then you can "cover" it (see Proverbs), and get the blessing. I'd even return the bugs to the cache. I'd even forget the "find." I'd probably try going back to that or another of his caches in a couple of weeks and see how he treated me. If he carries a grudge, then you know that you did all you could. Nothing to feel guilty about.

 

If you lose a "find," you haven't lost much. You could lose worse here.

Now, if you like more exact Scripture, you could email me. I'm trying not to be a Preacher, just a friend. You can probably tell that I'm not real big on that self-assertiveness training. Robespierre

[+necron]

Norbu: good advice coming from someone with an avitar like that. I agree, fighting will only make the situation worse... it will quickly move on to trashing each others caches. email the guy, apologize and see what he says. you may be in the right here, but sometimes that's not what matters.

[+Charles Street Gang]

If he is really concerned he could get approval before physically placing the cache...THAT WOULD SOLVE IT!

[+Renegade Knight]

If he is really concerned he could get approval before physically placing the cache...THAT WOULD SOLVE IT! 

Some people do that... It creates different problems.... I suspect you know that though.

Edited September 24, 2004 by Renegade Knight

[+CompuCash]

If he is really concerned he could get approval before physically placing the cache...THAT WOULD SOLVE IT! 

Some people do that... It creates different problems.... I suspect you know that though.

RK -

 

so what problems are created by dropping the TB after approval?

 

There was a thread recently about this same issue (seeing unapproved caches via the bug link) - I pulled the bugs and deleted the logs after that.

 

Then when approved I dropped the bugs again.

[+Team Tigger International]

FTFBA = First To Find Before Approval

 

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate. Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

 

Ok , I don't see that you did anything wrong here, but what does bother me is the last line of his e-mail to you "Actually I am a little Tired of you and your games "

Have you perhaps had some kind of disagreement with him in the past ?

I do agree with other posters though that it may be best just to make nice. It wouldn't hurt either of you .

Star of Team Tigger International

[+briansnat]

Ok , I don't see that you did anything wrong here, but what does bother me is the last line of his e-mail to you "Actually I am a little Tired of you and your games "

 

Yeah, thatt made me wonder if there wasn't a little more to this story than meets the eye.

[CoyoteRed]

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate.  Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

 

Quite frankly, I 'd be afraid of making a statement like this as the person I'm speaking to might just go back and pick up my cache. "Opps, went back to put everything back, but the cache is gone! What now?"

 

This game, and our game pieces, are just too vulnerable for this kind fo chest thumping.

[Pto]

Sorry, but it was His mistake for dropping the bugs in before approval. OOppps! HIS bad! Grabbing a bug back from you, his email ,etc- all seem to point him out as the one in the wrong-

[+SeventhSon]

This is what started the bad feelings.

 

7

[+junglehair]

Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

 

Sounds to me like this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. This guy has it in for you for whatever reason. I would say he over reacted on this issue however.

[CoyoteRed]

Okay, let me get this straight. A person is mad because a you were able to find his cache before it got approved yet he was unable to figure out one of your caches--or at least it was too hard for him to find right away.

 

Sounds to me like sour grapes.

 

This just illustrates we play with folks that run the gamut of intelligence.

 

I see two elements at play here. One is the fact that not everyone will have the ability to find every cache. Two, once a cache is placed, it's fair game regardless of if and where it is listed. Seems some folks miss these two points.

[Pantalaimon]

This is what started the bad feelings.

 

7

I'm confused. That thread seemed perfectly civil. Was it that CACHE that started the bad feelings? Was the person with the problem above not able to find the cache?

 

More info please.

[+SeventhSon]

I'm confused. That thread seemed perfectly civil. Was it that CACHE that started the bad feelings? Was the person with the problem above not able to find the cache?

 

More info please.

The cache mentioned in the thread is what I feel caused the problem to start with.

 

7

[Pantalaimon]

I see two elements at play here. One is the fact that not everyone will have the ability to find every cache. Two, once a cache is placed, it's fair game regardless of if and where it is listed. Seems some folks miss these two points.

To play devil's advocate of sorts, I think I disagree with point 2.

 

Why is it okay to find a cache before its approved? Might geocaching.com argue that the approval process is a somewhat vital condition precedent to finding a cache? Otherwise you might be searching for a cache "buried under some railroad tracks in the middle of a National Park."

 

Personally, I think all loopholes like this should be closed, and hunts should not be able to be begun until the listing is official.

 

I'm probably biased though, because when people used to type in URLs with increasing geocache numbers until they hit an as-of-yet-approved cache in their area in order to be the FTF, I would go insane. Especially when I was out there, on Easter morning, hunting for the newly approved cache... which s/he logged two days ago because s/he "hacked" the system.

 

Luckily that loophole has been closed, it facilitated my release from the asylum.

[+geoSquid]

This is what started the bad feelings.

 

7

Heh, he'd hate doing GCJKZ9

[+Renegade Knight]

If he is really concerned he could get approval before physically placing the cache...THAT WOULD SOLVE IT! 

Some people do that... It creates different problems.... I suspect you know that though.

RK -

 

so what problems are created by dropping the TB after approval?

 

There was a thread recently about this same issue (seeing unapproved caches via the bug link) - I pulled the bugs and deleted the logs after that.

 

Then when approved I dropped the bugs again.

We are on a different wavelength here.

 

What I was getting at was getting a cache approved then placing the cache container. We had some local FTF skunks when someone did this and they were not quick enough in getting the cache out there.

[+CompuCash]

I see two elements at play here. One is the fact that not everyone will have the ability to find every cache.  Two, once a cache is placed, it's fair game regardless of if and where it is listed.  Seems some folks miss these two points.

To play devil's advocate of sorts, I think I disagree with point 2.

 

Why is it okay to find a cache before its approved? Might geocaching.com argue that the approval process is a somewhat vital condition precedent to finding a cache? Otherwise you might be searching for a cache "buried under some railroad tracks in the middle of a National Park."

 

Personally, I think all loopholes like this should be closed, and hunts should not be able to be begun until the listing is official.

 

I'm probably biased though, because when people used to type in URLs with increasing geocache numbers until they hit an as-of-yet-approved cache in their area in order to be the FTF, I would go insane. Especially when I was out there, on Easter morning, hunting for the newly approved cache... which s/he logged two days ago because s/he "hacked" the system.

 

Luckily that loophole has been closed, it facilitated my release from the asylum.

In general I have to agree -

 

see my posting above - took the bugs out and killed their logs -

 

this is a simple fix - just don't drop them until it is posted -

[+CompuCash]

If he is really concerned he could get approval before physically placing the cache...THAT WOULD SOLVE IT! 

Some people do that... It creates different problems.... I suspect you know that though.

RK -

 

so what problems are created by dropping the TB after approval?

 

There was a thread recently about this same issue (seeing unapproved caches via the bug link) - I pulled the bugs and deleted the logs after that.

 

Then when approved I dropped the bugs again.

We are on a different wavelength here.

 

What I was getting at was getting a cache approved then placing the cache container. We had some local FTF skunks when someone did this and they were not quick enough in getting the cache out there.

 

ya we are - my fault - I didn't read it closely enought - I agree - not placing the CACHE before aproval would not be a good idea -

 

thanks -

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I don't understand this guy's hostility to your find. I guess in some sense you did jump the gun - but others could have used the same exploit, could they not? I don't understand why he's so upset - I could understand it (maybe) if there were some kind of large FTF prize associated with the cache. I've hidden some with fairly large ($20-$40) prizes, and I might have been upset had you done this to me when a prize like that was on the line. (Although I'd probably have congratulated you on your cleverness and kicked myself in the butt for stupidity!) But what did you get - a travel bug and FTF bragging rights? Give me a break! This cost him hothing.

 

Personally, I wouldn't hunt any more of that person's caches. Life is too short to deal with obnoxious people in your hobby. (That's what your JOB is for!)

 

I also think this guy is a fool. This game is based on mutual trust between relatively anonymous players. Making an enemy is an incredibly stupid thing to do, as it's very easy for someone to retaliate against you, and you'll never be able to prove it or do much about it. I'm not advocating that you do this. That would be wrong and a very much worse thing to do. I'm just pointing out that this kind of thing COULD happen, and that people would do well to think of this before sending angry emails to others.

 

Having said that - you might consider that the same applies to you, and if he's mad at you about this cache, and your puzzle cache, he might decide to retaliate against you. (You do sound like you are being a lot more reasonable about this, though.) So trying to find a way to work this out seems like the best approach to me.

 

I thought some of the notes on your cache page were pretty shocking. It sounds like the cache hider had a grudge against you for creating a puzzle he couldn't solve. Maybe your puzzle was terrific and he was stupid, or maybe your puzzle sucked and he was right - but in either case there's NO reason for him to nurse a grudge against you. That's just flat wrong in my opinion.

[+Robespierre]

Just in the last few minutes we've suspended two boys for individually attacking a third. For 3 day I've stood in the way and watched every move, but today I gave 'em a chance...and nailed one. The other was on the playground. So, don't make me come out there!

 

Actually this seems a little too simple...

I'm confused. That thread seemed perfectly civil. Was it that CACHE that started the bad feelings? Was the person with the problem above not able to find the cache?

So, I'm voting for some not-so-nicely-worded email...?

Hey, neither of the boys is justified in attacking...no matter what has gone on before, or back in the hood....

[+strikeforce1]

  Especially when I was out there, on Easter morning, hunting for the newly approved cache... which s/he logged two days ago because s/he "hacked" the system.

 

Edited by SF1 to highlight.

 

He didn't hack the system, he just utilized some tools that all cachers have at their finger tips.

 

He also capitalized on the fact that placing a tb in a new cache, before approval, revealed the cache. That was the hiders "BIG Mistake" , to drop a tb in a new cache! And now, he blames his mistake on someone else that found a legal-work-around for "Cheating".

 

If he actually "hacked the system" - I'd agree that he was wrong! But, he didn't hack it.

 

Again, Congrads on the FTFBA. Nice job utilizing the tools at hand! I'm in "your corner" 100% .

 

And yes, I was on the other side of the fence a year ago, with one of my hide.

It was found before approval, but the Rules state: You are the FTF if you sign the log book first. And you don't have to log on-line either, to be a FTF! It mentions "Nothing" about being "Approved". I accepted that rule, and stand 100% behind it!

 

Again, I would just go post your log's as usual. If they get deleted, so be it! Then, go drop the tb's as usual and be done with it.

 

On the same note: If you go find another of their caches, and be FTF, I wouldn't post the find on the cache page for a few days, either! Signing the "Log Book" is all that's required to log a find! SF1

[+Jamie Z]

utilized... all cachers have at their finger tips.

capitalized... he blames his mistake on someone else that found a legal-work-around...

"hacked the system"...

sign the log book first.... log on-line either, "Nothing"... stand 100% behind it

post your log's as usual...

"Log Book" is all that's required

Off-topic pet-peeve.

 

You're killing me. I think all these underlines are links.

 

Jamie

Edited September 24, 2004 by Jamie Z

[CoyoteRed]

I subscribe to a relatively simple philosophy of what is considered a "find."

 

If you are able to retrieve the cache and sign the log, it's a find.

 

While there can be certain situations where something less would be considered a find--wet or missing logbook, for example--I can't think of a situation where something more is needed to be a find.

 

We allow muggles, or even a cacher, to claim a find on a cache they stumble across.

 

We allow finds on multis where someone was smart enough to skip parts.

 

We allow finds on offsets where someone is smart enough to figure out the final coords without visiting the starting point.

 

Personally, while I would consider it bad form and think less of the people involved, I'd even allow a find on claims where a previous finder pointed their finger right at the cache. Bad form, but still a find.

 

Without getting into other aspects and elements of what is and isn't a find, a person using whatever ability they possess to find a cache and sign the logbook should be able to claim the find because that is exactly what they did, they found it. Even if a cache owner deletes a truthful found log that doesn't change the fact that person actually found the cache.

 

Why should we penalize anyone for being smart enough to find a cache while allowing a find where someone trips over it?

 

Don't take this to mean any loophole shouldn't be closed--that's for TPTB and/or the community to decide--but don't deny a find claim on someone who actually cache in hand and signed the logbook.

[+SeventhSon]

I'm aware of what he could do. But as I see it, I have nothing to lose.....

 

He can steal my caches ...

 

When I place a cache, I consider my responsibility to be maintenance. That's it. I don't consider it belonging to me. It belongs to the community, to search and to find. Taking them will not take anything away from me; it will take away a hunt for others.

 

He can delete any future and past finds I have on his caches ...

 

If you haven't looked, I've been caching for just over 2 years and have 89 finds. I'm not a numbers runner. I do this at my pace for my enjoyment. When I log a cache, I print the sheet out and put it in a binder. I keep track myself. I use GSAK with my queries. If my found caches are no longer considered found by the site, I can change that in GSAK and filter them out before I upload to my GPS.

 

He can get his buddies to delete any and all logs from any of their TB's ...

 

There were 5 TB's in this cache ... I took 2. I'm not a TB monger. I take those that grab my interest. I'm not interested in a massive TB list.

 

I can delete his finds on my caches ...

 

Will I?? Not even on a bet. That's not how I play the game.

 

I earned those bugs, and I earned that FTF. I used info they had, I just used it first.

 

I haven't received another email from him, and I'm not sure if he's reading this thread, but someone needs to just step out of the sandbox and walk away. So I'll deal with this tomorrow and walk away ... backwards.

 

Thanks for all the posts

 

7

Edited September 24, 2004 by SeventhSon

[+Spencersb]

Wonder what this guy would have done if a muggle had found his cache first?

 

I don't see anything wrong with what 7th did. When I hide a cache, I hide it to be found. The fact that someone found it quicker than I could get it approved indicates (to me anyway) A. I didn't hide it very well, or B. Someone saw me hide it. This is especially true around here, where I've had caches approved, literally, within 5 minutes of entering them. Took me a lot longer than that just to drive back. But the main point is, once I leave something laying in the woods unattended, it's pretty much fair game. Having had one destroyed by a developer's bulldozer , I think a "too-quick" find is one of the MILDER fates a cache could face!

 

As for the "problem" cache, I remember seeing it in the previous thread. Yes it looks very hard, especially to my math challenged mind, but there's nothing wrong in and of itself with making a cache too hard! No one is forcing anyone to hunt any cache.

 

And I've been PO'd at some folks before, but sending that kind of email, over a GAME, is just ignorant! No, on second thought, it's STUPID. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Provide the knowledge, and you fix the ignorance. You can't fix STUPID!

[+strikeforce1]

Off-topic pet-peeve.

You're killing me. I think all these underlines are links.

Jamie

Sorry Jamie,

I'll try to curtail the underlines. I'll didn't realize how it might come across! I am just so caught up in the conversation too deep! Maybe, I need to get away from this topic. I'm real hot, over the accusation of calling someone a cheater, because of one's own mistake.

 

Note to All: See how easy it is to work things out, Nicely , with poilte conversation. Yeah, I was about to underline "Nicely" Self moderation!

 

Please don't move this to OT, it's relevant to the OP topic , on how things can be discussed nicely !

SF1

[+Jamie Z]

I'll didn't realize how it might come across! I am just so caught up in the conversation too deep!

Italics and color are fine.

 

In fact, underline (in old-school typewriting) was the equivalent to italics. Maybe you're just trying to be old school.

 

Jamie

[+Renegade Knight]

... underlines...

I have to admit I've clicked on one or two links only to have nothing happen.

[+Team Tigger International]

I'm confused.  That thread seemed perfectly civil.  Was it that CACHE that started the bad feelings?  Was the person with the problem above not able to find the cache?

 

More info please.

The cache mentioned in the thread is what I feel caused the problem to start with.

 

7

I dunno , They logged finds on this said cache if anyone cares to look . I feel that perhaps the hostilities started way before this . .

 

Thing is , why would one go so far as to grab back TB's and geocoins when you dont physically have them in possesion , that makes no sense.

 

I still think that making nice would be the thing to do here. Unless there is some other underlying problem . I had a look at said profiles of the cache owner and bug owners I noticed they were all Police Officers . I know I wouldnt wanna be on the wrong side of any of the local Police here .

Star Of Team Tigger International

[+fly46]

He also capitalized on the fact that placing a tb in a new cache, before approval, revealed the cache. That was the hiders "BIG Mistake" , to drop a tb in a new cache! And now, he blames his mistake on someone else that found a legal-work-around for "Cheating".

I agree.

 

In fact, I had the cords to a members only cache because of a tb on a watchlist getting placed into a new cache. Not only was it not approved, but I'm not a member.

 

(Of course the cache was named in my honor and placed because of me, so I'm thinking I'm allowed to have the cords anyway)

[Pto]

I had a look at said profiles of the cache owner and bug owners I noticed they were all Police Officers .

 

I'd be worried if the police in my town acted this way towards a GAME. . . ..

[thorin]

You can take the first to find bug back, the MIA coin back and play the game fair or I will report you to the GeoCache Web site and it will be a cold day in hell before you ever log one of my caches again and I will make sure everyone knows how you operate.  Actually I'm a little tired of you and your games.

Shrug it off, you haven't done anything wrong. Invite him to "report you to the GeoCache Web site" (hehehe....is this "THE" website? ), no-one is going to care because you haven't done anything wrong. I mean seriously just because you used yer head (and he didn't) and found a cache based on the bigs he placed (and logged) why should that be your problem. It's not rocket science to figure out that when you log a bug it's location becomes visible (BTW you aren't the first to do this and won't be the last).

 

I had a look at said profiles of the cache owner and bug owners I noticed they were all Police Officers .

Ya because everyone is always truthful in those things ..... BTW I'm "King under the mountain" believe it?

 

Thorin

Edited September 24, 2004 by thorin

[ju66l3r]

I would kill them and turn myself in. While in my jail cell, I would carve my bar of soap into a "GPSr" and pace around my cell mumbling things like "I know it's around here somewhere"...and..."I can't get very good reception inside these cement walls". Every now and then when the guard passes I'd pounce on something in the room (the mattress corner, pillow, mirror) and scream "I *FOUND* IT!...First to find! First to find!". Be sure to trade some lint for a cigarette and sign the bottom of whatever you "found". Come trial time, they'll deem you not guilty by mental defect and you can sober up in the mental ward in a month and be free to use TB coordinates to find non-offset caches.

 

 

To the truth of the matter, GC.com is _a_ listing service. *Any* cache is viable without even being accepted here (even one under a RR track in a NP). As soon as it's in the wild, it can be found and if that means utilizing a certain loophole in how things are listed here, that's the way it goes. If he *really* had a grudge, he'd hide a multi and put some TBs in it that you might be interested in and sit back near the first stage coordinates (which don't have the final coordinates...since there's math on the cache page you'd need to do AND email before getting the final coordinates). Not only could he have fun watching you run in circles looking for the TBs before you find the math...he could sit on your e-mail for a week and apologize later for not getting to it right away...or some stupid garbage like that.

 

But at this point, I'd do what you were suggesting (know that you found it and be happy with how you play the game). As for the TBs at this point, I'd place them in another cache and relog your stage of their adventure right before you put in the drop log too. Hopefully it'll stand since at that point, he may be more interested in seeing that their logs make sense than vengence.