No Trespassing Signs

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

Can anyone explain why - when the State opens areas up for hiking, etc - they make the effort to post signs (WMA, SP, etc), but never take down the old "No Trespassing" signs.

Edited September 22, 2004 by Skully & Mulder et al.

[BassoonPilot]

Don't know for sure, but perhaps the signs are left in place as a reminder that use of the area is limited to specific activities during specific hours and/or seasons, and all other activities are considered trespassing. Or perhaps locating and removing all those old signs is simply too time-consuming/labor-intensive for the available work force.

Edited September 22, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

Or perhaps locating and removing all those old signs is simply too time-consuming/labor-intensive for the available work force.

That was my thought as well. Personally, I wouldn't mind helping out and taking down some of the signs when I visit these areas, but I wouldn't know which signs should be taken down - it would not be a good idea for people to go into an area and "willy nilly" start removing "No Trespassing" signs.

 

It is just a shame that the places are made available for hiking, etc., and people are relucant to walk past the signs.

[+briansnat]

Don't know for sure, but perhaps the signs are left in place as a reminder that use of the area is limited to specific activities during specific hours and/or seasons, and all other activities are considered trespassing. Or perhaps locating and removing all those old signs is simply too time-consuming/labor-intensive for the available work force.

Its the latter. The area east of Split Rock Res (where Team Magster's cache is) is an example. Same in in parts of Wildcat Ridge WMA. They simply don't have the manpower.

 

You'll also see it on the newer Bergen County owned tracts in the Ramapos like the former Glen Gray property.

[BassoonPilot]

It is just a shame that the places are made available for hiking, etc., and people are relucant to walk past the signs.

Yes, but some areas posted with "no trespassing" signs are open to hikers with the proviso that hikers will remain on the "official" trails at all times, or the trails are open to hikers only during certain hours, days and/or seasons.

 

I suppose people should be reluctant to walk past the signs if they are not familiar with the regulations. Unfortunately, finding out exactly what the regulations are is often quite difficult or time-consuming.

Edited September 22, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[+Mxyzptlk]

Don't know for sure, but perhaps the signs are left in place as a reminder that use of the area is limited to specific activities during specific hours and/or seasons, and all other activities are considered trespassing.  Or perhaps locating and removing all those old signs is simply too time-consuming/labor-intensive for the available work force.

Its the latter. The area east of Split Rock Res (where Team Magster's cache is) is an example. Same in in parts of Wildcat Ridge WMA. They simply don't have the manpower.

 

You'll also see it on the newer Bergen County owned tracts in the Ramapos like the former Glen Gray property.

 

I would volunteer to remove those signs from Splitrock/Wildcat WMA if someone could explain which ones to take down. There are a number of different no trespassing signs; Jersey City, Kohler the III, Rockaway Hunting Club, etc. The Kohler signs seem to be located in the middle of the WMA. They are bold looking signs.

Edited September 22, 2004 by Mxyzptlk

[+briansnat]

It is just a shame that the places are made available for hiking, etc., and people are relucant to walk past the signs.

Yes, but some areas posted with "no trespassing" signs are open to hikers with the proviso that hikers will remain on the "official" trails at all times, or the trails are open to hikers only during certain hours, days and/or seasons.

 

I suppose people should be reluctant to walk past the signs if they are not familiar with the regulations. Unfortunately, finding out exactly what the regulations are is often quite difficult or time-consuming.

Those are usually on private property where an easement for the trail was negotiated with the landowner.

[nikcap]

Curiously enough, I asked this specific question to the NJ States Parks Department and the WMA several weeks ago. The general answer was (I did not get a specific answer): The area is designated for specific activities; hiking, hunting, etc... These signs allow a maximum enforceable penalty especially regarding dumping, cutting down trees or removing/damaging plants or off roading and dirt bikes.

 

I followed up my quest by hypnotizing if the local PD or State PD caught me hiking or walking on the lands, would I be ticket, or arrested and put into a cell after relinquishing my wallet and belt.

 

The answer to that question was; it depended on the mood of the officer, but most likely they’d tell me to skadaddle.

 

In short, the signs are there for a reason … what reason is for the superintendent and lawyers to figure out.

 

BTW, unless otherwise posted these properties are open from 6am – 9pm

[+briansnat]

Curiously enough, I asked this specific question to the NJ States Parks Department and the WMA several weeks ago. The general answer was (I did not get a specific answer): The area is designated for specific activities; hiking, hunting, etc... These signs allow a maximum enforceable penalty especially regarding dumping, cutting down trees or removing/damaging plants or off roading and dirt bikes.

 

I followed up my quest by hypnotizing if the local PD or State PD caught me hiking or walking on the lands, would I be ticket, or arrested and put into a cell after relinquishing my wallet and belt.

 

The answer to that question was; it depended on the mood of the officer, but most likely they’d tell me to skadaddle.

 

In short, the signs are there for a reason … what reason is for the superintendent and lawyers to figure out.

 

BTW, unless otherwise posted these properties are open from 6am – 9pm

I think what Skully is referring to are old signs. The ones that are left from the previous owner when the state buys the land. In most cases they have the name of the former landowner on them. In many states (and I think NJ is one) for no trespassing signs to be valid and enforcable, they have to have the name and contact info for the owner on them. Since these old signs no longer have valid info on them, they are no longer worth the plastic they're written on.

 

I do see state issued no trespassing signs at times where public access is allowed, but they are rare. One area that comes to mind is the area around Long Pond Ironworks in LPI State Park. It is surrounded with official NJ state park no trespassing signs, yet hiking trails go through the area and people are welcome to explore the ruins.

 

I was told that the signs were there specifically for the reason you mentioned, to allow them to more leeway prosecute anybody who causes trouble in the area.

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

I really posted this topic to see if there are any "Clear-Cut" rules as to where you can hike - or not hike. I'm really not looking for a sign that says "OK to hike here" With so many new areas being opened to the public it would help if the users of the area knew if they ok hiking where they are hiking (I understand these areas are boardering on privite land - so probably no easy solution).

Edited September 23, 2004 by Skully & Mulder et al.

[+Renegade Knight]

They confuse me too.

 

This past weekend I found the right trail and it was clearly marked "No tresspassing" so I took the next one over that wasn't marked. All the trails connected once you got off road a bit so it didn't matter in the end except I could of got a ticket had I exited the trail system at that one point.

[+briansnat]

I really posted this topic to see if there are any "Clear-Cut" rules as to where you can hike - or not hike.  I'm really not looking for a sign that says "OK to hike here"  With so many new areas being opened to the public it would help if the users of the area knew if they ok hiking where they are hiking (I understand these areas are boardering on privite land - so probably no easy solution).

 

Generally, if there is a blazed hiking trail, then you're good to go. I know the NYNJTC keeps abreast of all closures and will immediately de-blaze a trail that the land owner has closed. The only exception to this that I can think of is the NWCDC property where you need a permit to hike on trails that cross their property.

 

Usually, the landowner will contact the state, or the TC and let them know that they are closing the trail to the public. Sometimes however, its just a subtle hint, like the time we found all the blazes removed from the trees and left in a bucket at the property boundry.

Edited September 23, 2004 by briansnat

[+lostinjersey]

I'm not entirely clear on just where these signs are. literally I mean, are on the trail itself, or alongside? If a trail skirts close to the edge of the park property, then couldn't it mean that going off trail here constitutes trespassing since it would be outside parkland boundaries? I cant personally think of any examples, but I'm just curious if thats a reason.

[+briansnat]

I'm not entirely clear on just where these signs are. literally I mean, are on the trail itself, or alongside? If a trail skirts close to the edge of the park property, then couldn't it mean that going off trail here constitutes trespassing since it would be outside parkland boundaries? I cant personally think of any examples, but I'm just curious if thats a reason.

I think Helmut is referring to places like Farny State Park and Wildcat Ridge WMA. They've been piecing together small chunks of land, 10 acres here, 50 there for the past 10 years or so (I just read about a 37 acre purchase Tuesday that will be added to Wildcat Ridge WMA...more cache territory ). Also, Morris County is buying up a lot of land the past few years. Same deal, a small parcel here and there.

 

Most of these parcels still have the No Trespassing signs from when they were privately owned, which can make things confusing.

Edited September 23, 2004 by briansnat

[+BMSquared]

The only exception to this that I can think of is the NWCDC property where you need a permit to hike on trails that cross their property.

Brian, What is the NWCDC?

[+briansnat]

The only exception to this that I can think of is the NWCDC property where you need a permit to hike on trails that cross their property.

Brian, What is the NWCDC?

The Newark watershed property along route 23 and Clinton/Echo Lake Rd. It stands for Newark Watershed Conservation and Development Corporation.

Edited September 24, 2004 by briansnat

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

The only exception to this that I can think of is the NWCDC property where you need a permit to hike on trails that cross their property.

Brian, What is the NWCDC?

The Newark watershed property along route 23 and Clinton/Echo Lake Rd

Brian,

 

It's very hard to take you seriously when you are wearing that pink dress.

[+Squealy]

"willy nilly"

...you said willy-nilly...

[+Team Bam Bam]

Brian,

 

It's very hard to take you seriously when you are wearing that pink dress.

I take him very seriously - in a 'Silence of the Lambs, messed-up, psycho-killer' sort of way.

[+MREAGLEWO1]

 

You'll also see it on the newer Bergen County owned tracts in the Ramapos like the former Glen Gray property.

Please be advised that you see it at Camp Glen Gray is because the camp requires reservations to be there. I reccommend the camp to anyone, it is a perfect family weekend trip. I always went there ever since cubscouts, and i still go there now.

 

To get a reservation:

 

Online at WWW.glengray.org

 

Phone: 201-327-7234 (camp office)

[+JMBella]

Or perhaps locating and removing all those old signs is simply too time-consuming/labor-intensive for the available work force.

Amazing that they have the available resources to restrict geocaching and remove caches that don't comply with their rules.

[+briansnat]

 

You'll also see it on the newer Bergen County owned tracts in the Ramapos like the former Glen Gray property.

Please be advised that you see it at Camp Glen Gray is because the camp requires reservations to be there. I reccommend the camp to anyone, it is a perfect family weekend trip. I always went there ever since cubscouts, and i still go there now.

 

To get a reservation:

 

Online at WWW.glengray.org

 

Phone: 201-327-7234 (camp office)

You do need a reservation to camp at Glen Gray and to use the facilities in the camp, including parking. You do not need a reservation to use the hiking trails. They are open to everyone.

 

Glen Gray is a great place. Its relatively unknown to people outside the Boy Scout community. They have cabins available to the general public for rent, tent sites and backcountry (backpacking) camp sites. I think the latter are only like $3 and there are some nice ones.

 

I was thinking it would be a great place for a Geo-jamboree type event. If there are enough people, we can rent the entire place. Mess hall, bonfire area, cabins, etc...

[+avroair]

Sweet, would they be amenable to placing some caches there. Since the nearest happen to be the hiker series.

 

Labor Day weekend?

[+lakelady]

a GeoJamboree at Geln Gray would be really neat.

[+MREAGLEWO1]

 

You'll also see it on the newer Bergen County owned tracts in the Ramapos like the former Glen Gray property.

Please be advised that you see it at Camp Glen Gray is because the camp requires reservations to be there. I reccommend the camp to anyone, it is a perfect family weekend trip. I always went there ever since cubscouts, and i still go there now.

 

To get a reservation:

 

Online at WWW.glengray.org

 

Phone: 201-327-7234 (camp office)

You do need a reservation to camp at Glen Gray and to use the facilities in the camp, including parking. You do not need a reservation to use the hiking trails. They are open to everyone.

 

Glen Gray is a great place. Its relatively unknown to people outside the Boy Scout community. They have cabins available to the general public for rent, tent sites and backcountry (backpacking) camp sites. I think the latter are only like $3 and there are some nice ones.

 

I was thinking it would be a great place for a Geo-jamboree type event. If there are enough people, we can rent the entire place. Mess hall, bonfire area, cabins, etc...

You can hike through there, but you are not suppose to park there and leave with out a reservation. As I was there at a meeting when they suggested NO DAY TRIPS so it wont ruin the enviroment, it will be a overnight facility. I believe that there are some day trips still happening, but it is reservations,,,,check the sign right after the camp gate near the big sign...."Come sit a while..." on midvale mtn rd.

[+briansnat]

Sweet, would they be amenable to placing some caches there. Since the nearest happen to be the hiker series.

 

Labor Day weekend?

There are like a gazillion caches within 2 miles of Glen Grey including at least two on the property.

 

You can hike through there, but you are not suppose to park there and leave with out a reservation.

 

I think that's what I said.

Edited May 6, 2005 by briansnat

[+MREAGLEWO1]

sorry briansnat, iread the post totally wrong.....