Earthenware Cone?

[+choude]

Hello,

 

I've lurked here on the forums for a bit and searched for a previous post about this subject without luck. My question is about finding an earthenware cone benchmark.

 

Odds are this benchmark, MY4778, is long, long gone. That said, how would one go about finding one of these? Has anyone tried one of these before? I'd like to at least take a look around the area and be able to report a fair DNF after some searching!

 

I have a number of old benchmarks in my area that have never been recovered since their initial log. I'd love to track them down and an 1846 one would be quite a catch! How many points would that be worth?

 

Thanks a bunch!

[Z15]

This one is going to be impossible to find unless you survey it in. The easy way would be to use RTK, you could narrow the spot down enough to dig a hole for a look see. But it will be costly to do as that equipment is not cheap nor is the time to do it. When I was working as a GPS Survey Tech I might have tried to find such a mark had it been near our project areas.

 

 

RTK - Real Time Kinematic GPS (gives u position to within 2cm)

 

You would have to set a mark close by using a hand held GPS, then set up a geodetic survey grade receiver and collect data for a few hours, take that data, convert it rinex format and send in to NGS OPUS on line positioning service. Within a few minutes you will get back a precise solution to you point, Enter that into you GPS survey receiver as your coordinate system, enter the position of the point you want to find and chose the stake out option and go to it and dig. Simple if you have the right tools. Did that many times with much success.

Edited September 20, 2004 by elcamino

[+choude]

This one is going to be impossible to find unless you survey it in. The easy way would be to use RTK, you could narrow the spot down enough to dig a hole for a look see. But it will be costly to do as that equipment is not cheap nor is the time to do it. When I was working as a GPS Survey Tech I might have tried to find such a mark had it been near our project areas.

 

I feared that Many of the ones in my area were marked DNF by the 1930's CGS surveys of the area, so I didn't hold too much hope for amateur me! Maybe if I had one of those underground imaging rigs, the so-called ground sonar...

 

As a point of interest, any idea what these things look like? I've been to a number of mark picture galleries, but I've never seen a cone. I would imagine it's just as it's name says, a cone made of earthenware, but perhaps someone has saved one that would have been destroyed and posted a pic. Curious is all

[evenfall]

What say a different 1846 catch in your area?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=MY4736

 

A bolt in lieu of an earthenware cone, Same realative age. You could be the first to see it as a geocacher...

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I have found one under another mark.but keep those finds to myself or the next searcher.

These being historic and easily disturbed may be one reason.

 

And there are a number of ways of getting in (close).

RTK-GPS,handheld-GPS,map,description,metal detector etc.

 

If you really stop and think about it a coordinate gets you within a credible distance,from experince you go on things you know,like most marks on on the highest point or best visible point,easily accessed for instruments.

usually in bedrock or placed for longevity.

Look for things(rocks) out of order,stacked,clearings,marks on trees.

most marks have(had 2 or 3 references),witness trees,witness corners.

I believe that with experince,like I have found you too will find this mark if still there.

 

It is like finding treasures with new meanings.

3 ' underground, I would make shure before digging to contact the landowner first.

[+choude]

It is like finding treasures with new meanings.

3 ' underground, I would make shure before digging to contact the landowner first

 

Oh certainly I've driven by this area and the odds are it was lost under a house anyway.

 

It's an interesting thing to think about, but really it's probably all for naught. I think I'll be chasing down the bolt mentioned earlier.

[evenfall]

Hi All,

 

Just a thought...

 

This is a good place to address this. Call it taking a topic to a next step. It goes without saying we as Bench Mark Hunters like finding old marks. But looking through a Zip Code search on the GC site, or a Radial search in the NGS Database can be mind numbing after awhile. I mean it is like easter eggs, you are in a target rich enviroment and there are many side tracking diversions that are of interest as well.

 

I want to offer an alternative way of surfing for oldies. The trick is to click the "view original datasheet" link. This is not a hard and fast Rule of thumb, but often when you pull the NGS Datasheet, such as the one you can view off the GC website, There is sometimes a section on the Datasheet that will detail Reference Objects. This section if it is available is usually a listing of Stations that were in existence at the time the Station in question was monumented. If not, I have found that many of them are of the same era. The important thing here is that this list is a list of old stations. Some may be lost, some may be officially destroyed and no longer listed, but it is how I found MY4736, the Bolt that was monumented the same year as the earthenware cone.

 

This is what the section you are looking for may look like on any given Datasheet:

 

MY4736| PID    Reference Object                    Distance      Geod. Az  |

MY4736|                                                          dddmmss.s |

MY4736| MY4756 DREAD LEDGE BEACON                  APPROX. 4.3 KM 0103048.5 |

MY4736| MY4705 SUMMERHOUSE CHURCH SPIRE            APPROX. 7.3 KM 0133045.7 |

MY4736| MY4706 PHILLIPS BEACH OCEAN HOUSE CUP      APPROX. 7.5 KM 0184059.9 |

MY4736| MY5050 HALFWAY ROCK BEACON OLD            APPROX.14.2 KM 0483413.5 |

MY4736| MY2810 POWDERHORN 1846                    APPROX.10.5 KM 2595447.8 |

MY4736| MY4742 LYNN HIGH ROCK POLE NEAR SWING      APPROX. 6.6 KM 3274205.3 |

MY4736| MY4722 LYNN EAST CHURCH TOWER              APPROX. 6.2 KM 3342216.0 |

 

You have to admit, it is something that can make you go Hmmmmm.

 

Now I have no idea what is there and what is not until I run each PID, but sometimes you get lucky. In 2004 who knows. As a Survey team would see it, you could find something you can use that has modern stability. I would not survey from an earthenware pot, as I would be expected to find a more modern and stable for of control than that, and there is plenty of control in the field to choose from. With a total station we may need to find Survey we can use today, in say, 1873, the Station was there, but in 2004 trees and buildings can obscure the view from that location, Further, there is so much State and County, even City Survey in place today, which we may choose to use instead that it might not be an issue. But this aspect of finding old Survey Markers could be a new spin on hunting. A good bit of this would be hunting you can do from home. Then you can take your list and go see what is and is not there. Call it another spin to the adventure. Surf on!

 

Rob

[+choude]

The important thing here is that this list is a list of old stations. Some may be lost, some may be officially destroyed and no longer listed, but it is how I found MY4736, the Bolt that was monumented the same year as the earthenware cone.

 

Interestingly, the actual monumenting year is not known exactly for nearly all of the "1846" marks in MA. According to a NOAA document on the history of geodetic surveys, there were many surveys completed in the state from 1834-1838. These were mandated by the Commonwealth in order to prepare maps. The results were not published until 1846, thus resulting in a large number of marks listed for that year.

 

I want to offer an alternative way of surfing for oldies. The trick is to click the "view original datasheet" link. This is not a hard and fast Rule of thumb, but often when you pull the NGS Datasheet, such as the one you can view off the GC website, There is sometimes a section on the Datasheet that will detail Reference Objects.

 

Yeah, definitely! I'm intrigued by MY5050 which is not in the database due to a lack of descriptive text. It has coordinates and I occasionally have access to a boat in that area, so why the heck not check it out!

 

I haven't been benchmarking long, but I don't know that finding marks with spray painted arrows pointing at them is really my cup of tea. I'm a long way from being up to finding these really difficult ones, but I'm willing to give them all a try with the idea that I can keep coming back to try again!

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I haven't been benchmarking long, but I don't know that finding marks with spray painted arrows pointing at them is really my cup of tea. I'm a long way from being up to finding these really difficult ones, but I'm willing to give them all a try with the idea that I can keep coming back to try again!

 

Oh please oh please

GEO*TRYAGAIN

[+California Bear]

I have found one under another mark.but keep those finds to myself or the next searcher.

These being historic and easily disturbed may be one reason.

Do you have a photo you could post that wouldn't give away the location? I would like to see what one looks like so I would know what to look for if I find a mark like that.

[+California Bear]

On the subject of unusual marks, does anyone have a photo of a vitrified tile? Many of the older marks listed in my area at one point had these placed (usually replacing a buried bottle and redwood stubs) before being replaced with disks.