Inappropriate Items Left In Cache

September 12, 2004

I was on vacation in Indiana this past week and found a pack of firecrackers in a cache. Ok. Firecrackers are legal in Indiana. I just swapped them out (And used them illegally in Illinois. LOL) But seriously. Kids can get hurt. Certain things should not be left in a cache. I agree. I feel personally that if there is a risk of fire, loss of limb or life, or something that can not be bought by a child of the age of 15. those items should be left out. Otherwise, have fun. I also agree with the statement the fireman made way up on this listing. If a fire were to start as a result of something left in a geocache, that would have a negative impact on what we are trying to do. Imagine local laws preventing us from caching. Seriously. That would suck! Remember this prase. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AN ITEM SHOULD BE BANNED, LOOK AT THE VERY SLEIGHT POSSIBILITY THAT THAT ITEM COULD DO A MINUTE AMOUNT OF HARM. tHEN THINK ABOUT THAT ONE PERSON WHO TAKES IT UPON THEMSELVES TO PUT AN END TO WHAT WE LOVE BECAUSE SOMEONE GOT HURT. Just think twice about items left in a cache. Its all about having fun. Jumping down from my high horse. ahhhhh. thats better.

"EVEN IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AN ITEM SHOULD BE BANNED, LOOK AT THE VERY SLEIGHT POSSIBILITY THAT THAT ITEM COULD DO A MINUTE AMOUNT OF HARM. tHEN THINK ABOUT THAT ONE PERSON WHO TAKES IT UPON THEMSELVES TO PUT AN END TO WHAT WE LOVE BECAUSE SOMEONE GOT HURT."

Hey Toppercat, If that's the case then we had better start thinking hard about all the McToys residing in caches. I don't think that all of them are safe. Have you noticed that when you get them, you have a choice (usually under or over 3 YOA)? What if a two year old gets ahold of an over 3 toy and swallows and chokes on an eye off the Hamburglar?

Personal Responsibility...

May I borrow your horse again sometime? :lol:

**Edit** Sorry Fireman 78, wasn't trying to steal your line. For some reason the "Go TO Last Unread Post" doesn't always seem to go to the right post. I missed yours the first go thru. Glad to see we can agree on something!

Edited September 12, 2004 by 5

September 13, 2004

I was on vacation in Indiana this past week and found a pack of firecrackers in a cache. Ok. Firecrackers are legal in Indiana. I just swapped them out (And used them illegally in Illinois. LOL) But seriously. Kids can get hurt. Certain things should not be left in a cache. I agree. I feel personally that if there is a risk of fire, loss of limb or life, or something that can not be bought by a child of the age of 15. those items should be left out. Otherwise, have fun. I also agree with the statement the fireman made way up on this listing. If a fire were to start as a result of something left in a geocache, that would have a negative impact on what we are trying to do. Imagine local laws preventing us from caching. Seriously. That would suck! Remember this prase. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AN ITEM SHOULD BE BANNED, LOOK AT THE VERY SLEIGHT POSSIBILITY THAT THAT ITEM COULD DO A MINUTE AMOUNT OF HARM. tHEN THINK ABOUT THAT ONE PERSON WHO TAKES IT UPON THEMSELVES TO PUT AN END TO WHAT WE LOVE BECAUSE SOMEONE GOT HURT. Just think twice about items left in a cache. Its all about having fun. Jumping down from my high horse. ahhhhh. thats better.

"EVEN IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE AN ITEM SHOULD BE BANNED, LOOK AT THE VERY SLEIGHT POSSIBILITY THAT THAT ITEM COULD DO A MINUTE AMOUNT OF HARM. tHEN THINK ABOUT THAT ONE PERSON WHO TAKES IT UPON THEMSELVES TO PUT AN END TO WHAT WE LOVE BECAUSE SOMEONE GOT HURT."

Hey Toppercat, If that's the case then we had better start thinking hard about all the McToys residing in caches. I don't think that all of them are safe. Have you noticed that when you get them, you have a choice (usually under or over 3 YOA)? What if a two year old gets ahold of an over 3 toy and swallows and chokes on an eye off the Hamburglar?

Personal Responsibility...

May I borrow your horse again sometime?

**Edit** Sorry Fireman 78, wasn't trying to steal your line. For some reason the "Go TO Last Unread Post" doesn't always seem to go to the right post. I missed yours the first go thru. Glad to see we can agree on something!

First, how many cachers under 12 do not have an adult present while caching? That adult should be adult enough to keep the child from taking something that might hurt them.

Second, I can't think of anything that couldn't some how hurt someone. "Local cacher claimed a price of a coupon for a meal at a local resturant. After his meal the cacher took a cup of coffee to go. As he pulled out onto the highway to head home, the top came off the coffee, burning the cacher and causing him to hit five cars" Is even a food coupon to be banned because someone could get hurt?

The proceeding was a dramatization of what might happen if we take dangerous cache items to an extreme.

September 13, 2004

Wow this thread is going nuts. Fireguy or whatever your name is that started this thread. I see you point. And truthfully I see where you come from. But there are always going to be some people who are going to argue with you. I don't think you can win if you want to call it that. Your point is valid and right. I will tell you that. But there is going to be 50% that is going to argue with you and tell you that you are wrong. The old saying goes guns don't kill people, people kill people. There are 2 sides to that. If people didn't have guns they wouldn't kill people and if a person wanted to kill you they would do it anyway. I look at it this way. I would have a better chance of surviving if someone couldn't shoot me from a hundred feet away and could atleast see it coming. Not saying I am against guns just using it as a reference.

I read earlier that more people are killed by Mctoys than forest fires and I won't argue that but I haven't read anywhere that Mctoys have self ignited and caused a fire either. This person that started the thread has a valid point and it seems everyone wants to slam him for bringing it up. This point was made because he deals with fires as a profession. The same way a cop deals with drugs and guns and crime as a profession.

Is everyone that hard up for matches that they have to find them and lighters in a cache? Can you not find anything else to put in a cache? Is a compass or whatever that much more expensive? If you answer yes to the previous question are you that much of a tight butt you won't spend another 50 cents to leave something that doesn't have the potential to hurt anything?

One day common sense will prevail........................................ :laughing:

Edited September 13, 2004 by krn187

1.6k · September 13, 2004

No, common sense won't prevail as its not that common.

September 13, 2004

NO NO NO, we were just trying to lighten up the room , that's all. [ :blink: ]

September 13, 2004

Well, if someone wants to burn down the forest, he will bring his own matches for that.

If someone "tries" the matches found in a cache and this leads to a wildfire, that's an accident.

Then you might as well say: "don't allow cars on the roads! there might be an accident!"

September 13, 2004

I guess the geocaching webpage says nothing about leavin anthrax in the caches so my understanding is that is ok. What about asbestos? Lead paint chips?

September 13, 2004

Well lets just say that the people that left the matches did not nessarily think of it as a joke but rather as supplies from some one who comes along with a lamp or something

38.2k · September 13, 2004

Your point is valid and right.

To you.

you that much of a tight butt you won't spend another 50 cents to leave something that doesn't have the potential to hurt anything?

Nearly anything misused has a potential to harm. The pencil can put out an eye, or kill someone, McToys can be choking hazards, a porcelain figurine can break and slice arteries, a CITO garbage bag can suffocate, Matchbox cars could stepped on and cause a fatal fall. Sheesh the way things are going here the only thing that will be allowed will be Nerf balls...but wait, someone can bite off a piece and choke to death on that.

One day common sense will prevail.

Edited September 13, 2004 by briansnat

3k · September 13, 2004

After reading these forums for the past three years, I've decided the perfect item to leave in caches is a tube of "Preparation H."

2.1k · September 13, 2004

I may start leaving solar wind atoms that I rescued from the Genesis carsh-site

nfa

September 13, 2004

Not until know have I ever thought about stuffing a fireman that's about 5'7" tall into a cache container and seeing how long it would take him to be found. :rolleyes:

(Please God let him be working the day of the Cache picnic, I hate running from people) :laughing:

September 13, 2004

This weekend I found a pack of cigarettes (containing one cigarette). On three or four occasions I've found one-dollar casino chips (or tokens, or whatever they're called).

Near Dillion, Colorado I found a condom (unused) in a cache. And in a cache in the Pecos I recently found a small empty liquor bottle.

No porn, drugs, guns, or liquor so far. Maybe I've just been getting to the caches too late.

2.6k · September 13, 2004

The angle I cross paths with the most is drugs in caches. Never seen any but boy do the local land managers ask about it.

I found one this weekend that had a bottle of Beano in it. I mean, really. Do you know what happens to gelcaps that sit in a damp cache in the woods for months?

September 13, 2004

After reading these forums for the past three years, I've decided the perfect item to leave in caches is a tube of "Preparation H."

Two days ago I found a packet of "Sphinterine", which is an "a**-stringent" - leaves you feeling minty fresh - even "back there." :rolleyes:

I swear I am not making this up. I took it because I couldn't stop laughing.

Not sure if it was "appropriate" ("Daddy, what's a sphincter?"), but I'd love to know how it could cause damage.... :laughing:

1.6k · September 13, 2004

After reading these forums for the past three years, I've decided the perfect item to leave in caches is a tube of "Preparation H."

:rolleyes: :laughing: That's pretty gross.

38.2k · September 13, 2004

After reading these forums for the past three years, I've decided the perfect item to leave in caches is a tube of "Preparation H."

That's pretty gross.

I've found tampons (new ones thankfully) in a lot of my caches. Some local either thinks they are a great item, or does so as a joke. I've thought about trashing them out, but left them, because hey, you never know.

September 13, 2004

I've thought about trashing them out, but left them, because hey, you never know.

That's right, you never know!

I am always amazed by the HORROR some of the men have expressed at finding NEW (for cripes sake!) tampons in caches. It's a fact of life, boys.

If caching was dominated by women, there'd be tampons and travel TP in every cache!

September 14, 2004

Nothing kills a discussion like Tampax! :rolleyes:

38.2k · September 14, 2004

Actually, I have an issue with fresh seafood left in caches. Unless the cache is insulated and the ice replaced frequently, it will spoil and smell real bad after several weeks. And Heaven forbid that some child finds the cache by accident and eats rotten clams or cod.

Thats the last thing this sport needs and it certainly will give us a black eye if the authorties trace a food poisioning death back to seafood found in a geocache.

Edited September 14, 2004 by briansnat

September 14, 2004

This weekend I found a pack of cigarettes (containing one cigarette). On three or four occasions I've found one-dollar casino chips (or tokens, or whatever they're called).

Near Dillion, Colorado I found a condom (unused) in a cache. And in a cache in the Pecos I recently found a small empty liquor bottle.

No porn, drugs, guns, or liquor so far. Maybe I've just been getting to the caches too late.

First to find is awesome...

I think it might be important to remember that the forums are supposed to be for "Discussion". There's going to be someone with a different opinion no matter what you have to say.

Just try to remember we're discussing a game here, not life and death. Have some fun people...

September 14, 2004

I've thought about trashing them out, but left them, because hey, you never know.

That's right, you never know!

I am always amazed by the HORROR some of the men have expressed at finding NEW (for cripes sake!) tampons in caches. It's a fact of life, boys.

If caching was dominated by women, there'd be tampons and travel TP in every cache!

TTTTTTampax!...There I said it...Are you happy?

September 14, 2004

Well as an EMT I'm not going on a rant when I find something in a cache that can possibly injure some one. Nor will I come to the forums and flame someone because they put a cache on a rocky hillside that is very steep and could cause injury. Nor will I cause discontent when someone places a cache in the woods where rattlesnakes, bears , and other animals can potentially cause someone to become a patient. Oh, and as an EMT that takes his 4 year old grandson geocaching I don't disallow him to take the little plasic toy from the cache that he may fall on and injure himself with. If i felt that strong about it I would trade it out and let it be. In other words quit seeing possible fire scenerios with everything you encounter. Geocaching should be fun!! leave the job at the firehouse. I choose not to see potential patients in everything I encounter. If I did I think life would start to suck! Relax man and cache on.

K

1.8k · September 14, 2004

The other day I saw camoflaged condoms is the surplus store. Anyone want the coordinates?

edit: I guess they're in case you want to sneak up on her?

Edited September 14, 2004 by Robespierre

September 14, 2004

Hey, man. Matches don't kill trees, fires does. (Apologies to the gun lobby.)

5.6k · September 14, 2004

Gee, go away for a week vacation and you miss out on all the fun...

A couple of points I thought of while reading this thread:

1. Matches would be very hard to outlaw during burn bans, as hikers are then told to use stoves, and how would you light the stove without matches.

2. How would the matches be traced back to a geocache? 'Man arrested for starting fire, police question him on match supplier, he blames geocache for supplying matches' :rolleyes:

3. Matches are bad, but toys are good. What about those magnifying glasses (which I've seen)?

Matches are one of the 10 essentials and can save lives. Yes, they can also burn things, building, plants, people, etc. But anything can cause problems if used wrong (many example have been sited in this thread already).

It brings to mind a quote from the old Pogo comic (don't remember the gals name, Mrs. somebody) "This life will be the death of me yet."

September 14, 2004

Hello, I am new to geocaching, only a week and have only 7 finds. Obviously common sense should be used when placing items in a cache, which i know some people dont have. But geeze, there are complaints about everything. I thought the items in the caches I found were cute or funny , sometimes odd, sometimes just junk. But hey it was still fun looking though them. I say ignore what you dont like or replace it with something you do. Anything used in the wrong way can be harmful or dangerous. Maybe someone needs to start a page of only items that they think should be in one........might get a little boring though, but then the complainers would be happy. I mean what exactly do you want to see in every one so you will be happy and not complain ? C'mon.........its suppose to be fun. And 99% of the fun is just being able to find the darn thing.

Go on chew my head off now for being new and stating MY opinion :rolleyes:

September 14, 2004

Consider your head chewed off.

September 14, 2004

PS: My opinion was not directed at any one person, I'd like to make that clear. :rolleyes:

September 14, 2004

I have found batteries in caches many times. They are quite dangerous as well. They are very poisonous, an explosion/fire hazard, and a choking hazard to name a few.

Many people every year are hurt by batteries that were placed in a device wrong and the batteries exploding causing heat and chemical burns.

Children are rushed to ERs all over the land because they are chocking on a battery they tried to swallow. Some do not make it, and others are injured so badly they will never fully recover. Others have to have stomachs pumped or surgery to remove the ones that were passed into the stomach to prevent poisoning.

The hazard they cause in our landfills every year is staggering to say the least from the chemicals leeching into the ground water.

They almost cost people more per year in replacements as do cigarettes. This being dependent on the number of items owned that would be otherwise useless without them.

The danger of these small power plants is staggering to say the least. The total scope of the danger has yet to be fully documented and the public warned in general.

WARNING: The surgeon general had determined that witless acts of stupidity with the contents of this package could cause injury or death. Use care or seek assistances from a person(s) smarter than you when using this product.

:rolleyes:

September 14, 2004

Blue,..........good for you. I have seen a common thing on the forums. When someone makes a valid point it gets disected to the point of it makes no sense anymore. It gets twisted to be something it is not. The point of this thread was that something much more safer could be left other than matches. It has been twisted to MCtoys can be choked on. Mctoys don't have the ability to combust on their own like matches do. A matches intention is to start fire. A Mctoy is not. Some folks aren't willing to see common sense. Deal with it. I have had to reconcile myself with that fact.

3k · September 14, 2004

The other day I saw camoflaged condoms is the surplus store. ... I guess they're in case you want to sneak up on her?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were especially designed for use in those "pickle parks" so that geocachers can't see what's going on between those strange men in the bushes.

September 14, 2004

Hello, I am new to geocaching, only a week

Blue bunny? Do you play the sax? :rolleyes:

September 14, 2004

I was geocaching the other day and not 30 feet from the cache was some poison ivy! On the other side of the cache about 50 feet away we encountered a hornet and some blood-sucking mosquitos. Skeeters in this area have been known to carry EEE which has killed at least 2 people in the last month within 30 miles of my home. Finally, surrounding the cache were a bunch of pointed sticks.

We ran screaming from the woods in fear for our lives, never to return.

Life can be dangerous!

Obviously we're going to have disagreements regarding what is appropriate. I cache with young children and I don't have a problem with matches. But knowing that some people have a problem with them, I won't put them in a cache anymore. I put them in once, was chided in a log, and I got the message. It's not going to ruin my day not to put matches in a cache and I want to be a friendly community cacher, so I will adjust. It seems to me that reasonable people can disagree on the matches issue.

But I was puzzled at one comment in a log I saw recently. A friend of mine left a tiny bottle of "bubbles" in a cache. You know, soapy water and a bubble wand in a tiny tight-closing mini bottle. After she left the bubbles in a cache, a subsequent cacher removed them and called them "inappropriate."

That puzzled me. I probably should email this person, but I don't want to seem dim, or come off as argumentative. As a beginner, I really do want to know. Can anyone tell me why this is inappropriate contents of a cache? My only guess is that it contains moisture (even though it is well-contained). Certainly, it doesn't seem dangerous.

On the moisture/leakage issue, another nearby cache contains a spray bottle of 100% DEET and I haven't heard any complaints about that cache item. In fact, the person who left the log on the bubbles has visited the cache with the DEET in it.

DEET is just as moist and a lot less "non-toxic" than some water with glycerine and detergent in it. So I'm back at square 1. The bubbles were also a fraction of an ounce in size, and the DEET was much larger and appeared at least as prone to leakage.

As a result, I have refrained from putting bubbles into caches because obviously some folks out there object. My daughters were disappointed, because they came up with the idea independently of this other friend. It would be nice if I could tell them why bubbles are so evil. :rolleyes:

Peace,

-JP

38.2k · September 14, 2004

I have seen a common thing on the forums. When someone makes a valid point it gets disected to the point of it makes no sense anymore. It gets twisted to be something it is not.

YOU feel its valid. Others pick it apart to show how silly and baseless it is.

Mctoys don't have the ability to combust on their own like matches do

In my 46 years on this planet I've yet to see a match spontaneously combust. Perhaps you are much more well informed on this subject than I am and have proof that this is a common occurrence. Kindly direct me to your source.

3k · September 14, 2004

... But I was puzzled at one comment in a log I saw recently. A friend of mine left a tiny bottle of "bubbles" in a cache. You know, soapy water and a bubble wand in a tiny tight-closing mini bottle. After she left the bubbles in a cache, a subsequent cacher removed them and called them "inappropriate."

Back when I started geocaching, small bottles of "bubble stuff" were a popular "signature item" ... I remember several people who repackaged store-bought bubbles into tiny bottles, and even one cacher who made a specially-fragranced bubble solution from scratch. A few leaked in caches, many remained in caches untraded for many months, and as a result the fad passed.

... That puzzled me. I probably should email this person, but I don't want to seem dim, or come off as argumentative. As a beginner, I really do want to know. Can anyone tell me why this is inappropriate contents of a cache? My only guess is that it contains moisture (even though it is well-contained). Certainly, it doesn't seem dangerous.

Oh my, yes it IS! Some unsuspecting geocacher might drink the bubbles, become flatulent, and eliminate the gas while lighting a match also found in the cache. The resulting explosion would be catastrophic! :wacko:

September 14, 2004

Back on Sept. 8 New England n00b mentioned feces in a cache. As the cacher who found what he referred to, it wasn’t funny. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be the first person to have a good laugh at someone else who made such a find but when it happens to you there isn’t anything humorous about it. The cache container was a large ammo box and a non-geocaching person found the cache, defecated in the container, made a log entry(no pun intended), put everything back in, resealed the container and put it back where I found it on a hot day some time later. Any more details here would be TMI (too much information). After e-mails to the approver and the cache owner, it was immediately disabled until the owner had a chance to totally replace the cache and rehide it in a nearby location, just in case the sicko should try to repeat his performance.

So I’m actually not too upset about what I find in a cache but I have removed a few items that I felt shouldn’t be there. One item I removed was a 50ml bottle of Kahlua liqueur, which I also had no use for. I did take a nice Swiss-style pocket knife that I am using. The bottom line is that where any of these caches could be found by a family group, is there anything in the container that might be considered dangerous or inappropriate. Also consider smells. I just found a cache in northern Maine where the cache was a Stonyfield Farm 2 pound plastic yogurt container that had been destroyed by some animal. There is currently a cache that is a glass pickle jar and all finders comment on the pickle smell as well as the fact that it is glass. It is nice to see the variety of caching containers and the sometimes bizarre contents out there because it gives us some ideas we could use. There are generally enough cachers out there so the container contents are policed to prevent any questionable item from staying there long. The on line log entries gives feedback to the owner as well as alerting others about any possible problems. I’m sure that some items we might not like were put there with good intentions or without thinking of the consequences.

September 17, 2004

Now you're getting to what my original post was all about... While I think that the placing of matches in a cache was irresponsible, I am also concerned about the public perception of a sport that is pretty much under the radar to most of the public.
We've got a lot of cities out here that won't allow geocaches. They say that its because no one knows what will end up in the cache. It's all BS, and they use it as an excuse, but then we have something like this. Ask any publicist...perception is reality.

I understand your concern...however...herein exists a great opportunity -- why not educate the public about geocaching? One can cast the sport in a favorable light so as to increase the public's exposure as well as improve perception.

For example, NEXT on CNN will have a segment on the sport of geocaching this weekend. Using a different medium, I wrote an article that was recently published in "Adventure Sports Magazine" about geocaching. My purpose for writing the article included the reasons made above (i.e., increase exposure and improve perception). Did the article do any good? I haven't a clue yet...but I believe that it was the correct proactive step for me to take.

Lastly, as an Adventure Racer and active member of my county's Search and Rescue team, I *always* ensure that I have matches within my day & 24-hour pack. Yes, we can't control what people will do if they find matches in a cache -- I suppose that a real nut case could intentionally swing an ammo can and knock someone out. Unfortunately, even people that we rely upon within our society have violated our trust -- Volunteer Fireman Arrested for Arson, as just one of many examples.

--steve

September 18, 2004

Lets face it guys, human beings can injure themselves with just about anything, in just about anyway. Just ask any Fireman thats been on the job awhile and he'll tell you that stupid people and alcohol are the main reason WE have a job. Any object, under the right set of circumstances can cause great bodily injury or harm via that right person and set of choices..... my 2 cents ....

1.8k · September 18, 2004

Just remember that those two cents are a terrible choking hazard for infants. :blink:

24.7k · September 18, 2004

Scrolling through this thread gave me carpel tunnel. We should ban it.

Edited September 18, 2004 by Renegade Knight

September 19, 2004

I was geocaching the other day and not 30 feet from the cache was some poison ivy! On the other side of the cache about 50 feet away we encountered a hornet and some blood-sucking mosquitos. Skeeters in this area have been known to carry EEE which has killed at least 2 people in the last month within 30 miles of my home. Finally, surrounding the cache were a bunch of pointed sticks.

We ran screaming from the woods in fear for our lives, never to return.

Life can be dangerous!

Welcome to Tennessee caching. Here, the running joke is if there is a lot of poison ivy near a cache site, go to the middle of the patch and you will probably find the cache. And then the mosquitos are terrible in the summer.

September 20, 2004

Matches don't start fires, people do.

It seem to me that there's a point being missed here.

Matches are useful for starting fires. What makes them useful is that they are very easy to ignite. You rub the head against a rough surface, and the heat from that friction is enough to ignite it. Heat from friction is not the only way to ignite matches.

I have admittedly not read this entire thread, so forgive me if I've missed something, but it seems that all the concern is with regard to what someone who finds the matches in a cache might do with them.

Some time within the last week or so, my wife and I found a cache where there was evidence that it had become quite hot inside the cache container. It was a dark-colored container, exposed to direct sunlight, in a place where ambient air temperatures have recently been over a hundred °F. If matches had been present in this cache, I think there's a very good chance it would have been hot enough inside the cache container to ignite them, and from there, to start a nasty fire involving all the dry grass and brush in the area where the cache is located.

I have to agree with those who think that it is dangerous and irresponsible to leave matches in a geocache.

38.2k · September 20, 2004

Some time within the last week or so, my wife and I found a cache where there was evidence that it had become quite hot inside the cache container. It was a dark-colored container, exposed to direct sunlight, in a place where ambient air temperatures have recently been over a hundred °F. If matches had been present in this cache, I think there's a very good chance it would have been hot enough inside the cache container to ignite them, and from there, to start a nasty fire involving all the dry grass and brush in the area where the cache is located.

If the ambient air temperature can ignite matches in a cache,then why aren't packs of matchs spontaneously lighting up in hot cars all over the place on a hot summer day? I'm sure the interior of a car sitting in the sun gets far hotter than the inside of a cache, but I've yet to notice cars going up in flames around me because people left matches in their glove comparment. Besides, if the one in a billion event occurs and a match does ignite inside a cache, it will need oxygen to continue to burn. Where will this come from in a closed cache?

I have admittedly not read this entire thread, so forgive me if I've missed something, but it seems that all the concern is with regard to what someone who finds the matches in a cache might do with them.

Had you read the entire thread you would have discovered that many common items, when misused, can be dangerous. McToys and coins are choking hazzards, a pencil can put out an eye, or deliver a fatal injury, a plastic CITO bag can suffocate an infant, a porcelain figurine can break and sever an artery.

Neither the OP, or anyone else here has been able to point to a wildfire being started via matches found in a cache. Does the potential exist? Sure, just as an airplane could potentially crash on my house as I'm writing this.

Common sense comes into play here as well. Should you put matches in a cache hidden in the bushes next to a playground swingset? If course not. But there is no reason matches can't be placed in a remote cache...and as I mentioned in an earlier post, they could save a life and if they save even one life its worth it .

Edited September 20, 2004 by briansnat

September 20, 2004

If matches had been present in this cache, I think there's a very good chance it would have been hot enough inside the cache container to ignite them, and from there, to start a nasty fire involving all the dry grass and brush in the area where the cache is located.

I have to agree with those who think that it is dangerous and irresponsible to leave matches in a geocache.

I believe the primary contents of a match is Red Phosphorus. It has a auto ignition temperature of 500°F. A good question is what would happen first - a match auto igniting or McToy 'melt down'. Maybe I have an experiment to do tonight!

September 20, 2004

If the ambient air temperature can ignite matches in a cache,they why aren't packs of matchs spontaneously lighting up in hot cars all over the place on a hot summer day?

You are correct Brian. According to Bill Nye the Science Guy, an interior of a car can get up to 120 degrees Fahrenheit... not even close to the 500 degrees needed to light matches.

Edited September 20, 2004 by Mxyzptlk

3.9k · September 20, 2004

Pornography is in the eye of the beholder. Well, usually. If anyone has found anything they consider pornographic, please feel free to scan it and mail it to me for, um, evaluation

Just on the original topic: I have found several lighters in tinder-dry wooded areas. Sure, it probably won't be used to start a fire, but if a particularly boisterous 13-year-old opens the cache and starts rummaging while Dad is absorbed in the log (or the pornography), they might just set fire to the undergrowth. It's just "inappropriate".

It's also, frankly, a pretty lame item to leave. At least to get a McToy you have to spend $2.95 or whatever it is on a Happy Meal. A half-empty lighter, to me, just means that someone was intending not to trade, but then saw something they considered "worthwhile" to take.

September 20, 2004

I wouldn't mind waterproof matches in a cache. I'm in Alaska where we had 6 MILLION acres burn this summer, and yes, I worked on them with the Forestry Division. No one has brought up the point that the area was already burned, therefore less likely to burn again due to less fuel. But either way, I don't find it something to argue about.

2.1k · September 20, 2004

You know...the plastic in McToys is essentially frozen petroleum, and will burn like gasoline once initiated...come to think of it, so will tupperware containers :unsure:

The best guide will be good judgement, I don't leave lighters in caches in town, but sometimes do in caches in the backcountry, where the may be a lifesaver.

nfa

3.9k · September 20, 2004

I don't leave lighters in caches in town, but sometimes do in caches in the backcountry, where the may be a lifesaver.

I don't quite see the logic here. If I wanted to save lives this way, I'd nail the matches (or thermal blanket, or long-life high-calorie rations) to a tree with "In case of cold/hunger, open this box" written on a six-foot high fluorescent orange plastic sheet. Putting life-saving items in a well-hidden box which only 0.2% of trail users might even suspect exists, seems to rather miss the point. Unless we want to encourage Darwinian-style survival of cachers above lesser mortals

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