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60c Is Leaving Me Dissapointed, Comments?


AJ of Dunbar

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I was trying out my 60C today in the outdoors while hiding a multiple. When i first fired it up i hit menu on the sat screen and turned it off and played with it. I saw the location the gps thought it was at was in tiawan. I turned it on was suprised to find i had gotten a satalite lock in wv usa while on the road for the first time in just barley over a minute. ( i wasnt driving, lol)

 

loved all the features and every thing, i love the gps, but here is where i am starting to hate it.

 

today i went to lay out my new multiple with my sportrak map and 60C in hand. im in a area that has a little tree cover but not a lot. my sportrak got sat lock in under a minute, I stood there for about 5 minutes waiting on the 60C AND NEVER GOT A LOCK!

So i left it on and started down the trail and it finally locked on, only to hear the 'lost reception' beep less then a minute later while my sportrak still has 3 strong sat locks and a crappy 4th.

 

so i find the spot for my first cache which its under s location where its not possible for a sat lock. So i get a couple feet from it, right now neither gps has a satalite lock. so im holding both gps' in hand under some tree cover, and my spotrak nearly immideatly gets a lock, once again i set there, this time nearly 10 minites, averaging the coords on my sportrak and once again my 60C NEVER gets a satalite lock.

 

for a $400 GPS this is really sorry. I love all the features (even if the base map is rediulously inaccurate, where the smaller basemap on my Spotrak is FAR MORE accurate.

 

I dont know, this just seems really dissapointing to have a $400 GPS and it wont get me any where once i get off the road. ANy one else have this problem or comments? Maybe i have a setup function wrong.

 

aj

Edited by AJ of Dunbar
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Are you using WAAS? It might have that turned on by default. It makes it much harder to get a lock with it enabled, though some claim it improves accuracy (I don't notice any difference). On my Garmin eTrex Legend, it's in the System configuration, as I recall. Turn it off if necessary, and see what happens.

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yes i am using WAAS, ill try again without it. I have forgoten how my spotrak WAAS system works, i think it doesnt use it till you try to get a mark (stop moving and try and get a good fix) then it kicks in? I dont see why having WAAS enabled would make it that much harder for a lock though... never know.

 

aj

Edited by AJ of Dunbar
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:lol: Check your "set up" . . . enable your WAAS setting as well. See if that works. I have a 60CS and it locks on HARD and FAST . . . even inside of my house ! You may have just gotten a funky unit, a lot of mail order houses and online purchases are returns from stores. ;) Edited by Alpha Geo
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okay heres what my gps says on the following screens (havent changed since i was outdoors)

 

main menu

setup

system

GPS - normal

WAAS - enabled

 

im going to go outside now (nothing over head) and see what kinda of differeance there is with waas on/off

 

went outside, stood under a tree, but it wasnt completely blocking the sky. got a solid lock fast. with waas on or off. i just dont understand this, actully i did take this gps to a cache last sunday and it ddi the same thing, had a hard time locking onto a sats, once it did it quickly lost signal and dint regain as where my spotrak had and kept a signal :lol:

 

I dont think its a funky unit, i got it from ebay NIB, with full garmin warrenty. like i said i dont think its funky cause i have gotten solids locks before like the first time i it got a lock that i mentioned above. its just wierd how once i get under some tree cover it loses it.

 

im going back to the multi tommaorw, ill try it again and see what happens.

 

aj

Edited by AJ of Dunbar
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When I got my 60CS last spring I fired it right up and had the same issues. Eventually after using it for a week or so, it started picking up satallights much better. I think it might have something to do with creating an almanac or something. Even now it does not lock on like I want it too. What I did was to purchase a powered antena that locks on from GPS geek and now I always have a good lock. It really makes me wonder however why Garmin does not buy one of these antenna, and cut it open, and see how to make a good antanna. For over $400 they should at least have the best antenna technology. Maybe it is because the Garmin headquartes in in Kansas where there is always a clear view of the sky. How can they develop the best GPS when they never have issues like partial sky views, mountains or tree cover? Maybe Garmin should move to Colorado or Wyoming. don't get me wrong I really do love my 60CS but come on for that price, I should not have to go and buy an external antanna just to go find a Cache!

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Yes, WAAS with delay locks but I do find that test coordinates made with WAAS and averaging will be more accure days later when searched for with WAAS enabled.

 

Haveing the unit off or off without batteries will delay a lock also. The more recent it has been used, the faster it will lock.

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Even now it does not lock on like I want it too. What I did was to purchase a powered antena that locks on from GPS geek and now I always have a good lock.

im going back out in the woods in a few minutes and once again ill have the 60C and my sportrak in hand. Ill try it with WAAS off, i dont know of any more options that might make it recieve better. if it does bad i guess ill have to contact garmin.

 

BTW woogs, how do you use the external antenna?i mean use you plus it in, but it has that long cord where do you hold/mount the antena when your walking through the wilderness?

 

aj

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From what I read one of the Magellans uses averageing all the time in a fix and Garmin doesn't it's an option for waypoints.

The constant averageing is not as relieable because you think it's getting that accuracy but it isn't. When the Garmin is run properly it is a good in accuracy.

 

I think you might be playing around with it too much and have corrupted the almanac.

 

You should try to leave it out in the open for a couple of hours to lock in good with waas on. Shut it off then turn it on. It should fire right up. If not you might need a reset to acquire a new almanac.

 

My 60cs does a fantasic job I use it hiking,leave it on all day long. I don't ever want one's like they made back a few years ago again.

 

. I have a $1,500 Northstar to compare it to.

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well i took it out today, turn it and the sportrak on in the parking lot, they got sat locks in about the same time frame (fast) the 60C had more sats then the sportrak.

 

got udner tree cover and was ready to be dissapointed when it kept the signal. I never lost reception today infact t normaly had more sats then the sportrak. man this gps is playing with my head! BTW, i didnt turn the WAAS off, i kept it one.

 

and just for my referance, what is the almanac in the GPS? I havent read all of the manual (a gps is farily easy to use once you explore its options)

 

aj

 

aj

Edited by AJ of Dunbar
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:blink: I just purchased a 60c. I love it. The first time I turned it on it took about 3-5 minutes to get satelites and its location straightened out, after that it locks in fast. I did lose the signal on my first cache with it, but I was in a small vally with steep sides and there was mucho tree cover and it only lost the signal in one particular spot. Not sure any GPS would get a signal there. If you keep having troubles send it back to Garmin, but be sure to contact then first to get a work number for repairs. As for the external antenna, they are really for car use, I'd be afraid of dragging the conecting cord into the woods. well good luck.
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well i took it out today, turn it and the sportrak on in the parking lot, they got sat locks in about the same time frame (fast) the 60C had more sats then the sportrak.

 

got udner tree cover and was ready to be dissapointed when it kept the signal. I never lost reception today infact t normaly had more sats then the sportrak. man this gps is playing with my head! BTW, i didnt turn the WAAS off, i kept it one.

 

and just for my referance, what is the almanac in the GPS? I havent read all of the manual (a gps is farily easy to use once you explore its options)

 

aj

 

aj

The GPS has to know where the satelites are and what their relation to eachother is. This is downloaded into a database in the GPS. If you didn't know where the satelite was you would know your distance from each but not where you are. For instance if satelite 1 was directly over San Francisco and satelite 2 was over Washington DC and you were equidestance from both you would be somewhere around Kansas. If satelite 1 was over London and salelite 2 was over Japan you would be somewhere inside of Russia.

 

(Maybe my geography is off but you get my point.)

Edited by webscouter.
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yeah i understand. I dont think i ever got into any options that would make it act up but you never know. it was really wierd cause today it acted completely oppisite of yesterday. I hope it stays acting like this.

 

I found some very heavy tree cover and compared the sat locks on my two gps' the 60c has about 5 medium locks, where my sportrak had 3 good locks. which is good they both performaed equally through out he day. 60c said i was 22 feet away from the place i marked my cache, the sportrak said 23 feet. pretty good. maybe it was just a glitch, i hope.

 

thanks for all the help

 

aj

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Well, I used to have a Magellan Sport Trak Map that worked adequately for me. All my friends with Garmins seemed to get and keep satelites while I was praying to the GPS gods to please at least figure out what state I was in. I say I used to have the Magellan because it fell off my pack while I was hiking and now it is gone. No really... It did fall off... I even had prior wife approval to purchase a new unit anyway without losing the old one...

 

Anyway, I decided on the Garmin 60C. I cannot say I have done side by side tests but I've taken the 60C into areas my SportTrak never could keep a lock and the Garmin just kept humming along.

 

I've found some good Garmin 60C advide in DejaNews (http://www.dejanews.com). Just search on Garmin 60C. There is a guy there who has posted his side by side comparisons of his SportTrack Pro and his Garmin 60C.

 

I do like my new 60C (especially the feature that allows me to put my name and phone number on the start up screen).

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Maybe Garmin should move to Colorado or Wyoming. don't get me wrong I really do love my 60CS but come on for that price, I should not have to go and buy an external antanna just to go find a Cache!

I live in Colorado and I have NEVER had trouble with my 60cs. B) The only time it has ever lost a signal is when I had it in the door pocket of my car and it didn't have a view of the sky at all. It gets a signal in my house, in dense tree cover (accuracy of +/- 35 feet but it was still getting a signal) and driving in the mountains and canyons here in Colorado.

 

Maybe you just got a weird unit and it needs to be replaced? I would call or email Garmin and explain what the trouble is. Maybe they will have you do a reset and let it build an almanac again or send it in for a replacement.

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I'm having a little difficulty following the timeline here, but I doubt you have a problem. Initially you mentioned turning the unit on, but switching the GPS off only to find it thought it was in Taiwan. That's normal the first time you use the unit, which I'll assume to have been the case here. They evidently test the units when first manufactured, and the unit initially thinks it's where it was last used. If you headed off into tough terrain right away, the unit will have trouble tracking the sats. You need to give it 15 to 20 minutes with a good view of the sky to collect all of the data it needs initially. If it's sorted itself out now, I wouldn't worry about it.

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yehai think i got my timeline mixed up in the posts left me reclarify.

 

first time i got the unit i turned the gps off seconds after it got past the welcome screen and played with it becuase i was on the road. I noticed it thought its current position was in tiawan. After i played around for a bit I turned the gps on (while on the road still) and it got sat lock in just over a minute (wow i thought becuase it took my sportrak 15 minutes). PLayed with the routing options. and had the gps trcing for about 10 minutes.

 

Got to the location and turned the gps on and off radnomly through out the day and it would get sat locks inside the house.

 

last sunday was the first time I took it into the woods, it took a while but got a lock, then lost it and never regained.

 

and my first post starts yesterday when i expericaned the problems again when i had the 60c and sportrak side by side.

 

Hopefully the problem is sorted out, i got the gps on now seting by the window trcking satalites. Ill let it trck for about half an hour or so then go back into the woods to see if it fixes the problem.

 

but unfortunantly there is no way to fix the basemap's inaccuracy. the map says I am in the middle of the kanawha river when in fact im atleast 500 feet from the shore of it! and the map shows the kanawha river 3x wider then it is, when you try to use a exit on the interstate it normally doesnt show up till you are at the portion of the exit where cars are getting on the interstate. but it does give you the exit name so its not that bad. looking at some lakes on the base map i can tell they are extremely innacurate. i dont see how garmin could let such crappy work get into their fine gps units...

 

thanks!

 

aj

Edited by AJ of Dunbar
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Based on my find experience (and whether or not you agree that matters is a diffferent topic) I agree - any of my three Magellans (330, STMap, Plat) will out-receive my 60CS. (I've done a mere 300 finds with the Garmin while more than twenty times that many with the Magellans combined.) So I, too, am disappointed with the 60's.

 

That said, I find myself picking up the 60CS when hunting becuase the user interface sucks less.

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I have a link to a glossary of GPS terms including ALMANAC http://www.navtechgps.com/glossary.asp , it is the second entry in the list. The almanac that is downloaded into any GPS, tells the GPS the Altitude, Position, Direction of travel of the satellite, and the speed of travel, and maybe the health of each satellite. This Almanac data downloaded to the GPS is required before the GPS can do high level calculations of it's positioning, each and every second it is turned on. When you put the GPS into DEMO mode(with gps receive turned OFF), it will play off of it's previously downloaded almanac, and you can see this by watching the satellights moving around on the sat page while in DEMO mode, and you can see other satelights coming into view on the sat page while still in DEMO mode.

 

IMPORTANT:

For best operation of the GPS, you need to turn on the GPS without touching any other buttons, after turning it ON. NEXT, you need to leave it motionless for 5 minutes while it's searching for the almanac and getting a LOCK, then when you have all your stuff for caching loaded into your car, you can start driving.

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It's not that strange, because as it receives the data about the positions of the SATS, you cannot allow trees and stuff block the path of the signal path, as the GPS is recieving the positioning data of all the SATS. Once the data is received, then the GPS will work off of it's ALMANAC of data, and it's built-in clock, and the timing signals from each satellight to figure it's position. If the Almanac is corrupted and/or the GPS's internal clock is off, that will cause the GPS to act screwy as you are driving down a tree lined street, and maybe never get a good almanac download, and never get a LOCK, untill you are absolutely out on an open road with perfect clearing ahead, also if it is a winding road, it will never get a good LOCK, especially if you turned on the GPS while on a winding road.

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It's not that strange, because as it receives the data about the positions of the SATS, you cannot allow trees and stuff block the path of the signal path, as the GPS is recieving the positioning data of all the SATS. Once the data is received, then the GPS will work off of it's ALMANAC of data, and it's built-in clock, and the timing signals from each satellight to figure it's position. If the Almanac is corrupted and/or the GPS's internal clock is off, that will cause the GPS to act screwy as you are driving down a tree lined street, and maybe never get a good almanac download, and never get a LOCK, untill you are absolutely out on an open road with perfect clearing ahead, also if it is a winding road, it will never get a good LOCK, especially if you turned on the GPS while on a winding road.

Well, I think almanac data once recieved stays valid for some time - 40 minutes maybe I don't know. I definetely had a valid almanac data already when I turned it on under trees.

 

I can try it again.

Edited by vr12
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I'm disappointed in the antenna quality of the 60CS also. I hadn't done anything "funky" with it when I first turned it on, and all was well, picked up sat locks quickly and located me no problem. All was well until I actually carried it "in the field" the next week. I picked up strong locks before entering the woods, however intermittently I would hear the beep indicating "weak reception". At that time it didn't seem like a huge deal as it would usually have a lock again within 10 seconds or less. Yes, there was fairly heavy tree cover, however I was carrying my old Magellan ST Color with me as comparison and it never lost lock during those same times. Still, I was convinced that my 400.00 GPSr antenna was somehow better.

 

I wasn't super-disappointed until this past weekend when I took my 60CS hiking in the Adirondacks. I like to save my hiking track data and output to my computer to massage into graphs and elevation profiles. Again, I had strong locks before entering the trail, however during the next 8 hours of hiking it lost sat lock for large chunks of 30 mins to an hour or more, or a mile of trail or more, several times. Not very useful for downloading an accurate track profile. Meanwhile, my brother is using his really old Maggie 330 I believe, and has lock the entire time, recording all the track data for the entire hike. I didn't bring my ST Color with me, but I can only assume it would have been fine, since I had used it several times on previous similar hikes and even when kept in my pocket it held lock the entire time. I went on another shorter hike a few days later and the same thing occurred.

 

I noticed some folks mentioned WAAS, I had it enabled the entire time and never had a problem getting a lock to start, only had problem keeping a lock. Is there any real reason why using WAAS would decrease reception? Also anyone note the position of the unit when they carry it? I noticed the 60CS seemed to have slightly better reception if kept inside my pocket with the antenna pointed up, vs carrying it in my hand with the antenna horizontal. This is all BS as far as I'm concerned. A unit that expensive with an antenna that looks that big shouldn't be losing reception under a bit of tree cover. How else were they expecting them to be used? I can understand my even older Vista having that problem. Yes, I'm slightly disappointed, but will probably still use the 60CS for caching as long as it doesn't become notorious for losing sats. However on my next long hiking trip, I'll probably leave the ST in my pack turned on, and will likely track the entire trip that way.

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Yes, there was fairly heavy tree cover, however I was carrying my old Magellan ST Color with me as comparison and it never lost lock during those same times. Still, I was convinced that my 400.00 GPSr antenna was somehow better.

 

Where exactly you were carrying 60CS and Magellan ?

Anyway this question was already discussed, the fact that magellan does't beep does't really mean it doesn' loose the signal.

Edited by vr12
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Yes, there was fairly heavy tree cover, however I was carrying my old Magellan ST Color with me as comparison and it never lost lock during those same times. Still, I was convinced that my 400.00 GPSr antenna was somehow better.

 

Where exactly you were carrying 60CS and Magellan ?

Anyway this question was already discussed, the fact that magellan does't beep does't really mean it doesn' loose the signal.

The fact that the ST records the track data and creates a trackpoint with position and elevation every 'n' minutes tells me it hasn't lost a lock. Beep or not, I know it still had reception the entire time, more or less. Also, in my usage of the ST to find about 200 of my caches, never had a major reception problem. Vs. the 60CS which lost lock several times for 30 mins to an hour or more....

 

I was considering purchasing the external antenna.

Edited by Crouching Hiker, Hidden Cache
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The more you use it the better it gets. Had the same problem. Mine is 4 months old now at it locks on quick and strong ;)

I really hope so. Like I said I have no problem getting a lock ever. Its keeping the lock under tree cover. I'm convinced after side-by-side comparison under identical circumstances with now 2 Maggies vs my 60CS, that the Maggie antennas are simply better. The Maggies will tell you on screen if they lose reception, and mine simply usually do not lose reception. I admit I was slightly jaded after my original GPS, a Vista, had the same tree cover problem. But I assumed the new quad antenna in the 60CS would not suffer the same fate.

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I took my 60c in the woods again today, in the rain from whats left of hurrican frances. Today it did MUCH better. I lost reception twice, but i got it back quickly. I had my sportrak in my pocket and it never lost reception (well i didnt hear it beep). I dont under stand why it would work better the more you use it, but i hope it does.

 

to people who use the powered antenna in the woods, How excatly do you have it mounted? it would seem like 10' of cable would easily get tangled up. or how easiy is it to cut the cord and solder it (or how ever) to make it shorter?

 

aj

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I noticed that 30 cm difference give you different signal distrubution.

 

Any position change will slightly affect the signal quality. But over the course of a few hours of the units being at varied positions with each other, and never seeing the screen on the Maggie say it lost reception, and having all trackpoints in tact for the time period, vs. the 60CS losing reception intermittently and missing trackpoints, offers enough data for me to say the 60CS's antenna (or at least mine in particular) is simply not as reliable. Further empirical evidence such as caching and hiking side-by-side for several hours, with others carrying Magellan 330 and ST Maps, supports what I'm saying, and is the source of my disappointment.

 

Anyway as I said earlier comparison of magellan and 60cs was discussed in othere thread.

 

Thanks, but I'm adding my personal thoughts and experiences to this thread which involves being "disappointed" in the unit due to bum satellite reception. The reasons I'm disappointed stem from my previous experience with this and other units, and are quite on-topic. On a side note, this is the only quality of the 60CS I find sub-par, in all other aspects I prefer it over the Maggies.

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Thanks, but I'm adding my personal thoughts and experiences to this thread which involves being "disappointed" in the unit due to bum satellite reception. The reasons I'm disappointed stem from my previous experience with this and other units, and are quite on-topic. On a side note, this is the only quality of the 60CS I find sub-par, in all other aspects I prefer it over the Maggies.

You should read that thread, you disappointment may disapear.

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One thing to keep in mind when discussing the sensitivity of the receiver, is whether or not the unit should be picking up a signal. The design of the GPS system requires that you have a direct line of sight to the satellite, otherwise the position solution will be inaccurate. In playing with most consumer level units, in areas like say a metal overhang, or a deep canyon, you’ll sometimes see the unit pick up a satellite that it obviously doesn’t have a direct line of sight to. I mention this, because my own side by side testing of assorted units didn’t indicate that much of a reception difference in different conditions, other than where multipath seemed to come in to play. As for the effects of multipath, in flat areas, you can generally get away with it because the bounced signal didn’t travel all that far out of it’s way. In the mountains, or desert canyons however, it can become a problem that results in serious positional errors.

 

For some of my initial impression of the sportraks “Sensitivity” in canyon type areas, read http://searching_ut.home.sprynet.com/Angels%20Landing.htm and check out my sample out and back track. I wrote this a couple months after buying my sportrak map. A couple hundred miles of trail time later, I gave up completely on the units and gave them to the kids. Again, in flatter terrain the accuracy problems probably wouldn’t have mattered all that much to me. Since I like to head for the mountains and deserts however, I find the so called “Increased sensitivity” comes at too high a price.

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