Is This Legal?

September 4, 2004

I was wondering if political items are allowed in caches. Would a political bumper sticker count as a soliciting cache?

3k · September 4, 2004

Yes, it is legal. No one is obligated to take such an item in trade. But if you're offended by such a thing, trade fairly for it and then place it in the nearest refuse container.

2.3k · September 4, 2004

I was wondering if political items are allowed in caches. Would a political bumper sticker count as a soliciting cache?

Not always. It will depend on what you place and how you word the cache page.

The guidelines state:

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

Your best bet is to contact your local reviewer before you place the cache

Edited September 4, 2004 by CO Admin

1.6k · September 4, 2004

As cache trade items they may or may not be illegal, but they seem to be in bad taste. Some time ago, we had a burst of activity where people would leave religious materials as trade items. This was seriously frowned on.

Take it political, you are a Bush fan (for example), you hike 2 miles one way to a geocache. Its described as a normal geocache and when you get there, its full of nothing but a log book and Kerry handouts. Yea!

Leave political, take it from a cache half-life perspective. When caches are full of one thing (toys, buttons, etc) and this is not described in the listing (eg.: its not a "toy cache"), people go to the cache thinking it will be a normal cache. I bring my trade item (mini FM radio), I get to the cache and find that its full of 4H pins and membership apps for 4H. Do I trade, or do I TNLN? Most often than not, geocachers will TNLN. The cache will stagnate.

From a number of perspectives, being nice to other cachers, or being nice to the cache, political junk is right down there with religious tracts. No, they are not good, find something else to trade.

24.7k · September 4, 2004

Insofar as Polital SWAG or especially signature items.

SWAG is iffy at best. A sig item? Sure why not, a sig items represents you.

I would hike 10 miles for an unopened can of Billy Beer.

That violates at least one other guideline. And yet political or not it's a collectors item well worth the hike (but not forking over 5 bucks at a swap meet).

As in all things YMMV.

If you are talking a politcal cache on a part with a commercial cache, like CO_Admin says, email your local approver (if you don't know who that is email CO_Admin and ask, he's got the list) and ask.

3k · September 4, 2004

As cache trade items they may or may not be illegal, but they seem to be in bad taste.

Well, if I hiked several miles to reach a cache and it had campaign pins or stickers, I'd say "Great!" I started collecting such stuff back when Nixon was campaigning against Humphrey. Let me tell you ... as time wears on, it is not necessarily the items from the winning ticket that increase in value the most.

1.6k · September 4, 2004

There's one cache a few miles from my house called Cast Your Vote. The theme is completely political.

September 4, 2004

Does a Red Sox cache count as religous?

2.3k · September 4, 2004

Does a Red Sox cache count as religous?

Not to a cubs fan

2k · September 4, 2004

Old political memoribilia can be a treat. I've got some Dukakis buttons I got from an auction box i'm thinking of leaving as swag.

The stuff in the box is just stuff in the box, as long as it isn't harmful or edible.

2.3k · September 4, 2004

Old political memoribilia can be a treat. I've got some Dukakis buttons I got from an auction box i'm thinking of leaving as swag.

The stuff in the box is just stuff in the box, as long as it isn't harmful or edible.

Dukakis buttons? OLD????

Ive got Hoover and I like Ike buttons, those are old.

darn youngsters

3k · September 4, 2004

Dukakis buttons? OLD???? Ive got Hoover and I like Ike buttons, those are old. darn youngsters

Awww; don't ya feel so bad for those "old timers" who had to write their ""guzzintas" on the backs of their shovels?

(2 guzzinta 4 twice, 2 guzzinta 6 thrice ...)

1.8k · September 4, 2004

Dukakis buttons? OLD????

Ive got Hoover and I like Ike buttons, those are old.

I'm looking for ancient Sumerian "Nimrod for President" buttons.

3.8k · September 4, 2004

I would hike 10 miles for an unopened can of Billy Beer.

Now, that would be illegal in a cache. BTW, ever tasted that stuff?..naaaaasty.

Old political swag is not really political; it's historic memorabilia, and that would make cool swag. (I remember wearing, as a kid, a huge, saucer-sized "I Like Ike" button.)

I would not be offended if I hiked 5 miles and discovered "W." propoganda.

Nor would I be offended to find Kerry or Nader materials. Now, if the cache owner designed the cache to be a platform for an agenda, that would be considered by TPTB to be in bad taste (and I would probably have little interest in visiting it).

2.2k · September 4, 2004

Old political memoribilia can be a treat. I've got some Dukakis buttons I got from an auction box i'm thinking of leaving as swag.

The stuff in the box is just stuff in the box, as long as it isn't harmful or edible.

Dukakis buttons? OLD????

Ive got Hoover and I like Ike buttons, those are old.

darn youngsters

i've got an old dewey/bricker button. no way is that gonna become swag.

38.2k · September 5, 2004

I put a Reagan bumper sticker in one of my caches and I found one of the old WIN (Whip Inflation Now) buttons that lead to the quick end of the Ford presidency in a cache. I thought that was real cool. I also had a stack of "Friends don't let friends vote Democrat" bumper stickers that I placed in some of my early caches.

I don't see a political item in cache as a problem. People are free to take them, ignore them, or burn them (as long as they trade evenly :lol: ). But to set a cache up specifically to push a political agenda is against the guidelines of this website.

2k · September 5, 2004

I have a cache I placed, Vote 2004, that is completely political. The idea is to find the cache, vote for president, and the results will be tallied shortly before the election. The cache itself doesn't advocate one candidate over another.

September 5, 2004

Of course legal but against the spirit of the geocaching.com guidelines.

2k · September 5, 2004

I have a cache I placed, Vote 2004, that is completely political. The idea is to find the cache, vote for president, and the results will be tallied shortly before the election. The cache itself doesn't advocate one candidate over another.

Interesting concept.

Would never work in Florida, though.

2k · September 5, 2004

I have a cache I placed, Vote 2004, that is completely political. The idea is to find the cache, vote for president, and the results will be tallied shortly before the election. The cache itself doesn't advocate one candidate over another.

Interesting concept.

Would never work in Florida, though.

I've got a punch, and explicit rules against hanging chads. If you can't figure out how to punch a hole, then you have no business voting!

September 5, 2004

No problems here, as long as the cache itself is not promoting one side or the other. The "Vote 2004" cache sounds like an interesting and fun one; however a "John Kerry is better than George Bush" cache theme is not. Leaving political material in a cache is like leaving religious materials. The offense is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm thinking of leaving some "Republicans for Kerry" bumper stickers a friend is making up in his shop in my next cache stop, or in my next maintenance visit to one of my own. Who knows, maybe they'll be valuable collectors' items someday, one way or the other. (Of course, I'm hoping it will be my way...)

September 5, 2004

Hey Brian-- I saw almost the same bumper sticker here just last week, only the parties were reversed. I'll bet the same company is selling them to both sides. I really can't say my favorite bumper sticker's message in a family friendly forum though. Let's just say I saw it in the first Bush election (HW), then in the 2000 (W) race, but haven't yet seen it on the roads. It consists of two words, four letters each, the second of which was Bush. A great double entendre worth a chuckle, no matter waht your party affiliation... To keep this on topic: Boy, would I like to find one of those in a cache!

2.6k · September 5, 2004

I'm looking for ancient Sumerian "Nimrod for President" buttons.

Ehhhhh...they're all nimrods, if'n you ask me.

And back to the OP...legal, maybe, but I'd personally be bummed by it. I'm rabidly political, myself, but one of the things I appreciate about geocaching is that it's largely free of that sort of thing. It's a relief to interact with people in a fun way without getting tangled up in the same old things we keep getting tangled up in everywhere else.

For once, let's just play...

2k · September 5, 2004

The "Vote 2004" cache sounds like an interesting and fun one; however a "John Kerry is better than George Bush" cache theme is not.

I would agree with that. A "George Bush is better than John Kerry" cache, however, would be ok. :lol:

2k · September 5, 2004

I've also thought about putting out two caches nearby one another, "Bush 2004" and "Kerry 2004", each filled with appropriate political stuff for the cache. While the caches themselves are political, they would balance each other out.

It would be interesting to see if people would not visit one or the other!

September 5, 2004

I would agree with that. A "George Bush is better than John Kerry" cache, however, would be ok.

I'd rather be fair to both sides of the political debate, and like Auntie Weasel,

I'm rabidly political, myself

and

one of the things I appreciate about geocaching is that it's largely free of that sort of thing.

September 6, 2004

Ive got Hoover and I like Ike buttons, those are old.

"I Like Ike" was one of the all time best slogans. I once said that if the Bush people came out with "I Like Bush" that I'd vote for him. Not to worry....neither will happen. :lol:

September 6, 2004

Or, if you REALLY wanted to, you could create a multi-cache:

You go to the listed coordinates and find a sheet that says:

If you like Bush, go to <coords>

If you like Kerry, go to <coords>

Then, its only one cache, and the cacher can decide which one they want to visit, or they can visit both.

~Jared

2.7k · September 6, 2004

I have a cache I placed, Vote 2004, that is completely political. The idea is to find the cache, vote for president, and the results will be tallied shortly before the election. The cache itself doesn't advocate one candidate over another.

Interesting concept.

Would never work in Florida, though.

I've got a punch, and explicit rules against hanging chads. If you can't figure out how to punch a hole, then you have no business voting!

The Dems gonna be suing to get the votes in your cache COUNTED in Florida.

(unless, of course, they are mostly for Bush)

2.5k · September 6, 2004

If you like Kerry, go to <coords>

N42°26.075', W83°59.099' map

Edited September 6, 2004 by cachew nut

September 6, 2004

That's funny! Thankfully I won't have to go there...

~Jared

September 6, 2004

I can feel the bipartisan love flowing in this thread... Is there a cache at

N42°26.075', W83°59.099'?

Why such anger --the original poster asked a legitimate question, several responded with reasonable discussion, then comes the nastiness. Aren't you glad you don't live in a one-party nation where free speech is non-existent?

For the record, I wouldn't be offended to find interesting political bumper stickers or buttons from either side in a cache, and Chilihead's balanced view to placing politically themed caches keeps it fun. I'm not also offended by other people's political views, when reasonably and politely debated. If it's garden variety "Bush/Cheney '04" or "Kerry/Edwards '04" stuff, I wouldn't take it. More interesting trade items, I might. There's a lot of witty bumper and button messages floating around out there for and against both parties' candidates. I guess that's what makes this nation so great -- no matter what the outcome of the election next fall, we're still Americans, and will recognize the winner as our President, no matter what party he represents.

:blink:

Edited September 6, 2004 by Metaphor

2.5k · September 6, 2004

Why such anger --the original poster asked a legitimate question, several responded with reasonable discussion, then comes the nastiness. Aren't you glad you don't live in a one-party nation where free speech is non-existent?

I guess that's what makes this nation so great -- no matter what the outcome of the election next fall, we're still Americans, and will recognize the winner as our President, no matter what party he represents.

No anger or nastiness, just exercising my free speech by providing the missing coordinates. By the way, the election is this fall. Why wait until the next election to recognize the winner as our President? Why not start recognizing the winner of our last election?

September 6, 2004

I'm not sure of your point. I did recognize the election of the President in 2000, and still do, even though he's not of my party affiliation. George W. Bush is the President of the United States, and as such, I respect him as the President, though I may not agree with all he does. By the way, I didn't always agree with everything President Clinton did, and in fact, strongly disagreed with some of his policies and actions. However, I respected him as being President of the United States. When the election results are announced, I will recognize the winner of the election as my President, regardless of his party affiliation. That's why I prize the way this country works. In a lot of places on the earth, riots would have broken out in the streets after the outcome was announced. They didn't here.

But this thread was about political memorabilia in a cache and whether it was legal. If it is creative memorabilia, I'd trade for it, no matter what the party represented was. Hey, a Ralph Nader Bumper sticker might be worth something someday.

2.5k · September 6, 2004

I guess it took a wrong turn when I read that your friend is making up Republicans for Kerry stickers and you planned on leaving some in caches. It just sounds kind of deceiving. I honestly don't know of any Republicans who would vote for Kerry and don't believe that you really do either. I certainly would remove them from any caches I found them in.

Edited September 6, 2004 by cachew nut

September 6, 2004

I actually have a couple of registered Republican friends who have said they are voting for Mr. Kerry. I also have a couple of registered Democrat friends who haven't yet made up their minds on Mr. Kerry yet. I will also be voting for my Republican Congressman, who I believe is the better choice for my district than his Democrat rival. It would be your prerogative to remove political stickers from a cache, if you so chose to. But if I left one from each party, would you remove them both, or only the with which you took umbrage?

That's what I liked about Chilihead's (and Jared and Tanis' follow up) cache ideas. They were more tongue-in-cheek and not really partisan. They made light of what is pretty much a volatile subject, and they offered an opportunity for playful banter in the logs, as long as people took it the way they were intended. Had your coordinates sent me to LostOutdoors and a map of Kerry's Massachussetts home rather than to the coordinates it did, I probably would have chuckled and not responded.

I'll be interested to see how Chilihead's Vote 2004 cache fares -- let's hope it doesn't get vicious, from either side. Keep it fun, keep it positive, keep it in the spirit of geocaching. I'm sure enough fur will fly between now and November in the media...

3.8k · September 6, 2004

GeoPals launched two travel bugs from central Texas, Mr. Kerry Goes to Wachington and Mr. Bush Goes to Washington

Stated goals( from Mr. Bush):

Moving this travel bug is your vote for president! If you'd like to see George Bush elected in 2004, move this travel bug closer to the nation's capital. If you'd like to see someone else elected in 2004, move this bug further away from Washington D.C. This travel bug is competing with Mr. Kerry Goes to Washington, whose mission is the same!

Who needs exit polls? Geocachers can just check the progress of these two travel bugs to predict who will be sent to the White House in November, 2004!

Mr. Bush is currently in Colorado, while Mr. Kerry is in New Jersey, but its not November yet.

2k · September 7, 2004

I'll be interested to see how Chilihead's Vote 2004 cache fares -- let's hope it doesn't get vicious, from either side. Keep it fun, keep it positive, keep it in the spirit of geocaching. I'm sure enough fur will fly between now and November in the media...

I haven't been back to check the cache, but a couple posters have noted there are a lot more votes than log entries. This could be because a family might log once, but vote 4 times (one per family member).

I'd be upset if cachers are voting multiple times (even if it's for *my* guy) ... I mean really ... this doesn't count for anything. It's not an official polling station!

September 7, 2004

GeoPals launched two travel bugs from central Texas, Mr. Kerry Goes to Wachington and Mr. Bush Goes to Washington

Stated goals( from Mr. Bush):

Moving this travel bug is your vote for president! If you'd like to see George Bush elected in 2004, move this travel bug closer to the nation's capital. If you'd like to see someone else elected in 2004, move this bug further away from Washington D.C. This travel bug is competing with Mr. Kerry Goes to Washington, whose mission is the same!

Who needs exit polls? Geocachers can just check the progress of these two travel bugs to predict who will be sent to the White House in November, 2004!

Mr. Bush is currently in Colorado, while Mr. Kerry is in New Jersey, but its not November yet.

Now that is a cool idea! They'd be TBs that I'd actually pick up.

Is This Legal?

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