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TheNomad

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You know, one thing I see quite often is how newbies get hammered when they ask questions that have been answered somewhere else in the forums.

 

But, in fairness, the search features of this forum are rather limited (being nice), and somewhat capricious.

 

For example, I haven't figured out how to search for the term "DPM" which was a thread at one time regarding lame caches. I've tried "Lame and DPM", I've tried "lame dpm" I've tried many things, but all fail. Yet, I know for a fact that such a thread exists.

 

Consulting the help on searching isn't all that enlightening either. Apparently, your search terms must all comprise at least four characters, and you can't reliably search for a phrase in a thread title.

 

I've provide an example that's easily demonstrable. On the Geocaching.com Web Site forum, there's a thread at the top about the off-topic forum being for premium users only.

 

Let's say that it has been several weeks, and the topic has gone by the wayside. A newbie enters the forum, and wants to search for that topic.

 

I've tried the following searches, all of which result in error, or it returning completely useless information:

 

ot and for and premium - failed

"ot for premium" - failed

'ot for premium' - returns completely unrelated information

 

Bottom line,

 

a- People around here (no specific dispersions being cast) should cut newbies (and heck, even longtimers) a bit of slack when it comes to searching these forums. It seems that even when you know a topic, and even the topic title, you can be totally unable to find it.

 

b- The search routines really need to be better documented (if there's a way to perform that search, I can't find it), or be fixed so that relevant information can be returned from a reasonable search.

 

edited to fix the inappropriate smilie as a bullet point.

Edited by TheNomad
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For example, I haven't figured out how to search for the term "DPM" which was a thread at one time regarding lame caches. I've tried "Lame and DPM", I've tried "lame dpm" I've tried many things, but all fail. Yet, I know for a fact that such a thread exists.

 

You mean this thread? Found it in about 30 seconds.

 

BTW, if you're looking for a geocaching term, you're better off first going to one of the geocaching dictionary lists, such as GeoLex. The meaning of DPM can be found here.

Edited by Prime Suspect
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Precisely my point! What exact search terms and syntax did you use to locate that thread? I can construct a correlated subquery with multiple joins in DB2, Oracle and MSSQL2k, but I can't seem to coax the forum search engine into returning meaningful data on a thread I know exists.

 

It appears (on the surface) that more alchemy and less science is involved in querying data in this forum.

 

And do you have a useful search term/query for my other example? The 'ot for premium only' query? What would that be?

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A common oversight when using the search feature is that the default setting searches for matches within the past 30 days. I would support the request, made a couple times previously, to adjust the search settings so that the default search looks for matching topics or posts within the past 365 days.

 

Of course, I don't know whether the canned software is customizable on this point.

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Actually, I'd considered the date limitation (which was why I specified the ot for premium example).

 

If you search for 'lame and dpm' for example, you simply get this:

 

====

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

 

The error returned was:

 

One or all of your search keywords were below 4 characters or you are searched for words which are not allowed, such as 'html', 'img', etc, please go back and increase the length of these search keywords or choose different keywords.

====

 

Well, if all I know is that DPM is somehow a secret code for lame caches, there is no way for me to get to the thread. I don't have enough information to formulate a query.

 

With trial and error, I was able to ascertain that I can search for a phrase by surrounding it with double-quotes. So, I was able to find the thread Prime Suspect posted above by using the following:

 

"DPM in my log"

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Precisely my point! What exact search terms and syntax did you use to locate that thread?

I researched this before, when I wrote the DPM entry for GeoLex. I had come across the thread before, and knew that it was an abbreviation for a French term that meant "dead clams". So I searched for "dead clams", and finally found it.

 

This time, however, I just went to GeoLex, copied a few words from the entire French phrase (any post containing those would have to be about DPM), and searched for them. I got a couple of hits, but I remembered from the last time that it was in a regional forum, which narrowed it down to one thread.

 

I'll admit that the search engine is pretty lame (Google, it ain't). But my point is, it's not the only resource. There are a number of FAQ pages, and informational topics that are pinned at the top of the forum sections, like this, where you would have found this post, telling you where you can find the meanings of various geocaching terms and acronyms.

 

And BTW, hats off to you for wanting to search for the answers. Many people don't even bother.

Edited by Prime Suspect
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I too have always found the 4 character search limit annoying. In particular it makes searching these forums for posts relating to the use of Apple Macintosh computers in geocaching very difficult - Why? well because very few people put the words 'Apple Macintosh' in their post, they usually just put 'Mac'.

 

JeremyA

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I agree that the search engine is really lame. In addition, the default settings just don't make sense, I always have to modify them and the stupid thing does not even remember the last settings. Another really stupid feature is that if you press the Back button on the search results page, in the hope to be able to modify your search, it just does the same search again and returns the same results.

 

Actually, I have noticed that all the commonly used forum engines use a similarly idiotic search engine. The guy who programmed this obviously never tried to use it in real life. I just can't believe how lame it is. I hate it.

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I'll admit that the search engine is pretty lame (Google, it ain't). But my point is, it's not the only resource. There are a number of FAQ pages, and informational topics that are pinned at the top of the forum sections, like this, where you would have found this post, telling you where you can find the meanings of various geocaching terms and acronyms.

Taking your lead, I went to:

 

This link and searched for DPM. I then followed that up, and went to the GC knowledge base, and searched for DPM.

 

Nada. I get this:

 

-------

Your search - DPM - did not match any answers in our knowledge base.

Please change your search terms and try again.

 

Back to Browse

-------

 

I guess that I'm saying - if I knew what the exact search term was, I'd be able to find what I already know is there. I guess. But, all I knew at the time of my original quest was DPM = lame cache. That's it. I didn't have any knowledge of "dead clams" or anything leading up to that.

 

And the search engine for the forum is less than enlightening.

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I'll admit that the search engine is pretty lame (Google, it ain't). But my point is, it's not the only resource. There are a number of FAQ pages, and informational topics that are pinned at the top of the forum sections, like this, where you would have found this post, telling you where you can find the meanings of various geocaching terms and acronyms.

Taking your lead, I went to:

 

This link and searched for DPM. I then followed that up, and went to the GC knowledge base, and searched for DPM.

 

Nada. I get this:

 

-------

Your search - DPM - did not match any answers in our knowledge base.

Please change your search terms and try again.

 

Back to Browse

-------

I'm not sure how doing something different than what I suggested is "following my lead".

 

Let's see, I'm trying to figure out about the geocaching term DPM. In the pinned topic, less than halfway down the very first page, I find this post. It says, in great big bold letters, all the better to be seen, Meanings of Acronyms and Terms Used in Geocaching. Wow! I wonder if that's something I should read? Let's see. I'm looking for the meaning of the term DPM. And this post has links to where the meaning of geocaching terms and acronyms can be found. Gee, I wonder if those links could be usefull.

 

Maybe. But instead of clicking on any of them, I'll just go post another message about how I can't find anything. That's a much better idea. :D

Edited by Prime Suspect
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Another really stupid feature is that if you press the Back button on the search results page, in the hope to be able to modify your search, it just does the same search again and returns the same results.

Returning to the most recent page is not a "really stupid feature;" rather, it is how a browser behaves when commanded to do that.

 

Have you tried pressing the "back" button TWICE, really fast, one right after another, before the search has a chance to regenerate the results? You'll be amazed.

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Returning to the most recent page is not a "really stupid feature;" rather, it is how a browser behaves when commanded to do that.

 

Have you tried pressing the "back" button TWICE, really fast, one right after another, before the search has a chance to regenerate the results? You'll be amazed.

The "Thank you, the search has been completed, please stand by, blah" page is completely unnecessary. When I do a search then in my mind there are two pages: the search page and the search results page. Having to trick the browser to get back to the search page because pressing the Back button once just regenerates the existing page instead of actually going back is really annoying.

 

BTW I'm not looking for workarounds for the weaknesses of the current search engine. What I would like to see is a better search engine, with reasonable defaults and intuitive behavior.

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I'll admit that the search engine is pretty lame (Google, it ain't). But my point is, it's not the only resource. There are a number of FAQ pages, and informational topics that are pinned at the top of the forum sections, like this, where you would have found this post, telling you where you can find the meanings of various geocaching terms and acronyms.

Taking your lead, I went to:

 

This link and searched for DPM. I then followed that up, and went to the GC knowledge base, and searched for DPM.

 

Nada. I get this:

 

-------

Your search - DPM - did not match any answers in our knowledge base.

Please change your search terms and try again.

 

Back to Browse

-------

I'm not sure how doing something different than what I suggested is "following my lead".

 

Let's see, I'm trying to figure out about the geocaching term DPM. In the pinned topic, less than halfway down the very first page, I find this post. It says, in great big bold letters, all the better to be seen, Meanings of Acronyms and Terms Used in Geocaching. Wow! I wonder if that's something I should read? Let's see. I'm looking for the meaning of the term DPM. And this post has links to where the meaning of geocaching terms and acronyms can be found. Gee, I wonder if those links could be usefull.

 

Maybe. But instead of clicking on any of them, I'll just go post another message about how I can't find anything. That's a much better idea. :D

Oh, I see.

 

To find this "pinned topic", I needed to know go to the "Getting Started" forum - the "New to the game? Feel free to ask questions here. We're glad to help!

Forum Led by: crashmore, Keystone Approver, mtn-man" instead of going to the "Geocaching Topics" forum.

 

Since I'm not new to the game, I don't go into that forum.

 

But that's ok. I then go to the "Read First! Geocaching Frequently Asked Questions" page and scroll down 28 posts to find the specified link.

 

Yes, you're right Prime Suspect. That's completely intuitive, and you have every right to be sarcastic and abusive.

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Oh yeah, after I get to the section of meanings and acronyms, I have to open the Geocaching.com Glossary (not there), the Markwell's Personal Website (not there), the NeoGeologisms page (not there), and finally the GeoLex, the Lexicon of Geocaching where it is.

 

Wow.

 

Seems like I'm the search engine.

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Oh yeah, after I get to the section of meanings and acronyms, I have to open the Geocaching.com Glossary (not there), the Markwell's Personal Website (not there), the NeoGeologisms page (not there), and finally the GeoLex, the Lexicon of Geocaching where it is.

 

Wow.

 

Seems like I'm the search engine.

that's our motto! :D

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You had to go to the forum FAQ? Then you had to actually scroll down? :)

Well, in fairness, scroll-down 28 posts, and then use a trial-and-error algorithm to search each of the referenced glossary sites to find the one that mentioned the search term I was looking for.

 

I think the topic of this post was pretty much on mark.

 

I had/have a reasonable search criteria, but am unable to coax the search engine to produce valid/usable results.

 

For those that are content with:

 

a) Go to forum you've never been to because you're not new to geocaching.

 

:lol: Load the FAQ page.

 

c) Scroll down 28 posts.

 

d) Open each of the four glossary/term pages to see if it contains the information desired.

 

Then great - the system is working fine for you.

 

For those that think that searching the forum in one place for meaningful results should be possible - well, that's what this thread is about.

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As mentioned, the forum search is not as good as google. However, google does produce slightly better results.

 

In the google search box add: site:http://forums.Groundspeak.com then your keyword - here's the search for

 

mac

 

Bizarrely, the first time I checked DPM, it brought up one thread (in german), but now it will not display any results. Anyway - try google out....

Edited by AJK
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I agree with Nomad, the search feature has lots of room for improvement, which would help newbies answer their own questions. This should cut down on the bashing of people asking a question for the 13943rd time... I mean, cut down on people asking a question for the 13943rd time.

 

Maybe something as simple as explaining that the text in the search field has to be an exact string.

 

For instance, the first post in this thread contains the words "newbies get hammered". When I searched for "newbies hammered" I got no matches. And when I searched for "newbies and hammered" I got nothing. "+newbies +hammered" - also nothing.

 

(Obviously if you try these searches now you'll get a link to this post since I just used them.)

 

However, when I searched for "newbies get hammered" it gave me a result!

 

Could an explaination of how the search engine works, on the search page, be added?

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I agree with Nomad, the search feature has lots of room for improvement, which would help newbies answer their own questions.  This should cut down on the bashing of people asking a question for the 13943rd time... I mean, cut down on people asking a question for the 13943rd time.

 

Maybe something as simple as explaining that the text in the search field has to be an exact string

 

For instance, the first post in this thread contains the words "newbies get hammered".  When I searched for "newbies hammered" I got no matches.  And when I searched for "newbies and hammered" I got nothing.  "+newbies +hammered" - also nothing.

But it doesn't have to be an exact string. You could have found it if you had used newbies % hammered. You could find this thread by using words from your post, such as question % 13943rd. As you may have guessed, you can use % as a wildcard. You can also use the underscore "_" as a single-character wildcard.

Edited by Prime Suspect
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But it doesn't have to be an exact string.... you can use % as a wildcard. You can also use the underscore "_" as a single-character wildcard.

Ahh, I learned something new today! Thanks for the tip!

 

See, this is useful information that could be spelled out on the search page. From the posts above it's obvious that people think the search will return matches that contain the words, but not necessarily the phrase. I made that mistake myself lots of times before I figured out it was a phrase search.

 

And now I have wildcards to use in the phrase. Huzzah!

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