Better Directions Please

[+Longfram Kev]

Is it just me or do others have the same problem.

It would be nice to have a bit more info on some cache sheets, so when caching on holiday or in an area that is not known at least you would know where to park or where to start from.

Recently while on holiday in Scotland, 150 miles from home, I went to several caches with only the end cache co-ords listed. Not knowing the area I had a few problems finding the best place to park. Also some thing along the lines of approach from such and such.

I know you can follow the arrow but some times it can take you the wrong way, and it's always when you have the wife and kids with you, then all you get is

" well you've got the GPS so you should know where we are going, where the cache is and what;s in it "

" But I've never been here before "

" That's what you bought the GPS is for isn't it ? "

I'm not asking for road names just a bit more info for people who may not know the area as well as the cache hider.

Hope I've explained it properly and I'm not the only one who seems to have this problem.

[+DesG]

We have just returned from a weeks break in Cornwall and had the same problem, took longer to find suitable parking places on some of the caches than finding the cache itself. This was the first time away using a PDA, in the past I would print off loads of caches and maybe print a map on the back if needed. I suppose the next stage is to purchase map software for my gps but it's hard to know what's best, I've been looking at the new topo map that came out recently and have asked for opinions on it but are still waiting and watching.

 

Good caching all.

 

Des & Bren

snerdbe

[+Birders]

Presumably you do not have Memory Map (or something similar) or a PDA with GPX Sonar? If you did we don't think you'd have too much trouble. A GPS can't find you parking areas but a good map will give you some ideas.

 

At least 80% of the caches we have visited have been in places we have never previously visited, despite the fact that some are close to where we live.

 

Many cache sheets include suggestions for local parking but rarely do we follow those directions. We simply use Memory Map (or, prior to getting MM we used Landranger maps) to take us to the best location which appears to be us to be convenient for the cache. We then decide where to park, etc. Rarely has this procedure caused any problems. In fact, on many occasions we have found parking in more convenient spots than those suggested.

 

For Des and Bren... Memory Map uses "Landranger" maps, ie 1:50:000. 1:25,000 maps are available for certain areas but the Landranger maps have never failed us and we've done birdwatching, walking and geocaching all over the UK. Memory Map also has the rather clever facility to draw atrack on the map and then examine the vertical profile on-screen.

 

Lastly, instead of LR maps or expensive software you can always download maps of the immediate area to several different scales free from http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ . That's what we used to do if we didn't have our own LR map of the area.

 

Good lucik..

[+Pengy&Tigger]

Presumably you do not have Memory Map (or something similar) or a PDA with GPX Sonar?

It's not always lack of a map that is a problem. There is one cache that we have gone for twice that we just can't get to. It is surrounded on one side by a river and the other side by a very tall wall. We have memory map, tom tom and GPXsonar. There is no marked path on any maps.

 

The cache description for this one just says 'take the footpath by the river' , but not where the path starts. We couldn't find a trace of a path anywhere. If the placer had said something like 'take the path that starts at the village church' for example, we would at least have known where to start. Others have had difficulties with this cache as well. As it is not near home, we have given up on both occasions as time is precious when caching away from home.

 

The other thing that irks me sometimes is when people use right and left instead of North, South etc. For example, 'arrive at the co-ordinates and the cache is 100ft to your left', without giving a reference point of the direction you are facing.

 

T

[+Sue and Bernie]

...isn't that half the fun!

 

Recently during a trip to Cyprus, my friend & I went for this cache:

 

GCGZ4C Kalia

 

We had only a poor photocopied road map provided with the borrowed car. We blindly followed the arrow on the GPS and ended up trekking a couple miles to the cache. We were scratched and bloodied on the journey down to the cache and again on the trip back...

 

... and found a car park about 1000m from the site that, using a dirt road from the opposite direction, would have made things far more easier.

 

However, it was the most satisfying cache we chased that weekend. We did others in the same fashion - taking the most direct line - and ended up driving over mountains on dirt tracks and along riverbeds! Don't tell Craig who lent us the car!

 

Steve, a geo-virgin, and I saw more of Cyprus in those 2 short days out in the sticks than in all our past trips - and a lot of that was down to not having a highly detailed road/contour map of the area.

Edited August 29, 2004 by Sue & Bernie

[+Longfram Kev]

.[in the past I would print off loads of caches and maybe print a map on the back if needed. ]

 

I've only been caching for about 10 weeks and am still getting used to the GPS. I've got a basic Yellow Etrex.

I still print of the cache sheets and print a map of the area on the back from the map provided on the cache page

I have maps gor the area where I live but to buy a map for caches in other areas of the country for a couple of caches, it's quite a bit of an expense. I know you would have them for future caches...but still.

[+DesG]

For Des and Bren... Memory Map uses "Landranger" maps, ie 1:50:000. 1:25,000 maps are available for certain areas but the Landranger maps have never failed us and we've done birdwatching, walking and geocaching all over the UK. Memory Map also has the rather clever facility to draw atrack on the map and then examine the vertical profile on-screen.

Thanks for that. We'll have to look in to Memory Map or something similar before long, we have the Landranger/Explorer maps for our local area which are great for caching and to have a mobile version would be even better.

 

We use streetmap all the time, it's a lot better than Mapquest but it's hard to access when you're away from a computer, suppose we'll have to spend some more money and buy a few high tech gadgets.

 

Des & Bren

snerdbe

[Deego]

I use map source to plan my road trip there. But use 12 landranger 1:50,000 paper maps (I know they are a bit old fashioned ) for the paths. Most time the hardest thing is finding somewhere to dump the car (Must get rid of all my teenage kids, so I can sell the people carrier and get a small car ) If there is parking co-ords on the cache page I will always use them.

 

But out of My 8 caches only 1 gives parking co-ords, 2 give ideas from the direction that is best, 3 can be reached by a number of well marked paths and 2 have obvious in parking area's if you look at a map.

 

Maybe I will add parking locations from now on

[+John Stead]

At first I did put parking coordinates with my cache descriptions but don't now unless there is real help to be given that way. Half the fun of caching for me is planning the route and using a good map which has always been a major interest (I was a surveyor).

But I can understand the problem for those who like Kev are in a strange area without map reading skills, maybe we should be more careful in suggesting parking spots and reasonable guidance on access - after all we don't have to follow suggestions. I must admit I have got lazy and taken to using TomTom to get me near the cache - sometimes with predictable results!

[+Daisy&me]

I wish everybody would include car parking coordinates in their cache descriptions. To me, caching is about walking in the country with Daisy, not driving around looking somewhere to park.

[+Team Ullium]

I agree with you there Daisy&me

 

And sometimes on occasion even when given the co-ords of a parking place... it can be quite tricky to find the bleeding place....why they don't just say park in such and such a place and here is how to get to it!!

 

The number of times I have input the co-ords of the suggested parking place and spent ages driving around in an impossible area for ages trying to get to it following the indicated directions from the GPSr on my dashboard.

 

Nowadays if I am given co-ords to a parking place I look it up first in something like Multmap and take a printout of it with me on the journey

 

More and more I finding out the benefits of forward planning when geocaching...however there are occasions where one finds an unexpected opportunity and just go for it totally unprepared....or change one's mind at the last moment and head of for some unprepared caches. But that's life

 

Ullium.

[+roolku]

Since there seems to be a show of hand developing here:

I am against car park co-ordinates on cache pages as I generally find them patronising (park here and then take the footpath to the north) and also ignorant of the fact that there are other modes of transport (I want co-ordinates for bus stops! ). Geocaching to me includes planning the approach to the cache all the way from my computer to the actual location. But I acknowledge that different people have different needs and fortunately there is a wide variety of cache descriptions out there. Leave it up to the owner to provide whatever information he/she wants to make available and pick caches that you think you will like and/or can cope with.

 

Roolku

[+Team Ullium]

I hear what you are saying Roolku...but I think that this is one of those subjects that it appears different from different angles of approach....a bit like geocaching

 

Seriously, yes I think you have a point....and if there are no suggested parking co-ords then well and good ... one knows where one stands then...or should that be parks !?

 

And as you say...giving parking co-ords assumes you will be travelling by car....which might very well not be the case. I must keep this point in mind when I eventually get around to placing some caches of my own

 

But you might admit that you are perhaps in the minority (though not unique perhaps) in having to rely on public transport if your trusty bike or just walking is not an option!

 

But I still think if co-ords are given and they could be awkward to get to...then that should be made plain in the description....just my opinion of course

 

Ullium.

[+wildlifewriter]

I am against car park co-ordinates on cache pages as I generally find them patronising (park here and then take the footpath to the north) and also ignorant of the fact that there are other modes of transport (I want co-ordinates for bus stops!  ).

I think it's a mistake to generalise about this subject.

 

Many caches are in rural areas, and often in AONB. Surrounding roads can be narrow and even single-track in places. In such places, it's far better to be aware of a nearby parking place than to abandon our vehicles at the point where the needle went sideways.

 

And it might not end there: the cache placer might - and indeed SHOULD - be aware of any environmental sensitivities at the location. I have visited a number of cache sites where aimless rambling about on the approach would be postively harmful, by causing disturbance to fauna and flora.

 

In such cases, giving directions is not merely helpful - it's socially responsible.

[+roolku]

But you might admit that you are perhaps in the minority (though not unique perhaps) in having to rely on public transport if your trusty bike or just walking is not an option!

Not "having to" but "wanting to"!

 

But I still think if co-ords are given and they could be awkward to get to...then that should be made plain in the description....just my opinion of course 

 

You could just treat it as the first stage of a difficult micro.

 

Roolku

[+roolku]

In such places, it's far better to be aware of a nearby parking place than to abandon our vehicles at the point where the needle went sideways.

Where in my post did I suggest you should do that? Planning ahead is the key. (PPPPPP as Haggis Hunter would say ) Heck, I just invested £150 in mapping software for my holiday area so I can find out precisely where to go so I don't need to "aimlessly ramble".

 

It appears to me you want to shift the guilt from the cacher who is doing damage to the environment onto the cache hider? Why shouldn't the cacher take responsibility for his own action?

 

In my message I also wrote to leave it up to the cache owner to provide whatever info he feels is required. If this includes parking co-ordinates, so be it. I can simply ignore them (and trample down the vegetation. ).

 

What I have a problem with is when it becomes a requirement (technically or socially) for cache pages to have parking co-ordinates as already discussedhere.

 

Roolku

[+wildlifewriter]

Where in my post did I suggest you should do that?

Where in my reply did I say you suggested it?

[+Mike+Mary]

I have maps gor the area where I live but to buy a map for caches in other areas of the country for a couple of caches, it's quite a bit of an expense.

 

You don't need to buy them. If you're happy to use 3x3km blocks, go to Streetmap, enter your destination, select your scale and print a map in OS Landranger format. Streetmap (or Multimap) plus a road atlas works fine.

[+Team Maddie UK]

I believe in the Golden Rule...Give that which you would like to receive. Parking co-ordinates in an area that I am unfamiliar with are greatfully welcome and I try to post them with our caches as well. We do not have a PDA so do our research with maps as best we can..Multis get a bit hard to do this way especially when you do not know the end co-ords and don't want to drive home 50-60 miles just to check them out.

Geo-caching is not suppose to be a game of who has the most/best toys to get the end result. Parking Co-ords are not much more than an "extra clue" and if that is the only clue there is then I will gladly accept them.

Lynn

[+roolku]

Where in my post did I suggest you should do that?

Where in my reply did I say you suggested it?

In the bit that I quoted?

[+Team Maddie UK]

Many caches are in rural areas, and often in AONB. Surrounding roads can be narrow and even single-track in places. In such places, it's far better to be aware of a nearby parking place than to abandon our vehicles at the point where the needle went sideways.

 

We also live in an area where parking can be awkward at best. Therefore we always provide car park coordinates. I see no problem with this as, as stated, the walking part is what most of us enjoy most.

 

As to the use of PDA etc. well what can I say? We debated at some length when we started this activity whether to even buy a GPS. Somehow the use of a map and compass seemed so much more elegant. If the technology improves sufficiently, and it probably will, the whole activity may cease to pose any challenge at all.

 

Martin

[+Team Ullium]

I think Wildlifewriter was making a fair enough point Roolku in that there are occasions where parking in the country...possibly down single track roads or farm roads (where one could possibly obstruct the farmers vehicles) could present a problem and although it might not be the cache owners responsiblity....it surely would be sensible and considerate of him or her to direct those who go after their cache to sensible parking place!?

 

More and more I finding out the benefits of forward planning when geocaching

 

As I said I take more care now planning my caches....but even so there is only so much one can do given the amount of information one has at hand ... or lack of it

 

But I do agree I would not like to see it a fixed requirement .... I much prefer (having taken everything that has been said) to leave it up to the cache owner!!

 

Although as one cacher commented that he used to think geocaching was a walking pursuit...but has now learned that it is a driving one really

 

As cachers bag all the local caches they are forced to search further and further afield...and that usually means driving to places you have never been to in your life....and driving about with your attention centered on GPSr's or looking for street names can be dangerous!! Anything that makes this exercise more simple and safer is fine by me! Like others have said...I want to be walking and geocaching....not driving about searching for a good place to park.

 

Sorry if I implied that you were obliged to take public transport as opposed to it being your choice....but it was a natural mistake surely ???

Not everyone has passed a driving test ... or can afford to run a car for that matter ... and there is no shame in that !!

 

Ullium.

[+Team Maddie UK]

I agree with all of the above points especially Ullium's. Perhaps we should also bear in mind that if the cache placer does not travel by car themselves they would not necessarily even think about posting car parking coordinates.

 

Martin

[+minstrelcat]

I agree with providing parking co-ordinates - I always do if the parking place isn't obvious (like a great big cark park nearby for instance). My take if someone doesn't want to use the co-ordinates, they don't have to enter them into their GPSr!

 

Lisa