Member Only Caches

[+thisismeisthatu]

In my local area there are no Premium and Charter Members caches. Not sure why. I guess the cache placer want to get as many people to there caches as possible. My way of thinking is if you really like geocaching then the $30 US dollars anuually is a small price to pay. In a effort to try and promote more people to pay the membershp fee. I am going to make every cache I set from now on a Premium and Charter Members only for the first month. That way the first to find honour will be someone who support Geocaching finanically. I realize that non paying member support Geocaching by placing caches. But it cost a significant amount of money to run the web site like this one. Without the moeny there would be no central location to find caches.

 

First reason I 'm posting this is to encourge other to do the same.

 

Second reason is to promote discusion on this topic to see if I am way of base on my thinking.

 

Please comment I would like to hear other geocahers view on my proposal

Edited August 27, 2004 by thisismeisthatu

[+fly46]

As a Free member to the site, I have to say this...

I don't mind member's only caches, so long as they're made available to everyone at some point. So deciding after the first finder.. after a month... after the first full moon, whatever... is okay.. Leaving it members only forever irks me.

[Pipanella]

I don't see a problem with Members Only caches. It's just a perk of paid membership. When I wasn't a paying member, it didn't bother me either, because there are plenty of caches out there for me to do without doing the Members Only caches. And if I can't see the what the Members Caches are, then I don't know what I don't know anyway, right?

 

I think your proposal, thisismeisthatu, seems like a very nice compromise.

[+Robespierre]

Early in the summer I had a lot of hits, and I added some caches. For the last 3 weeks, though, I've had maybe one cacher down from a little north and hit 3 caches. I think that's pretty close. Cache owners like to see hits.

As expressed above, I plan to pony up the dough. My civic duty. But I con't plan to pony up the hits on my caches. What would I be trying to accomplish? Do I want to force others to pay? Reward the paying cacher? Feel superior? what? I can think of no goals I wish to accomplish in this regard. I think, BTW, that MO caches usually open up after a few weeks - just to get hits.

[BassoonPilot]

In my local area there are no Premium and Charter Members caches. Not sure why. ...  In a effort to try and promote more people to pay the membershp fee. I am going to make every cache I set from now on a Premium and Charter Members only for the first month. That way the first to find honour will be someone who support Geocahing finanically.

 

If the feature is available to you, there is no reason for you not to use it. The manner in which you envision using the MOC feature is both appropriate and reasonable. Many people have utlized the feature in that manner before you.

 

I plan to pony up the dough. My civic duty. But I con't plan to pony up the hits on my caches. What would I be trying to accomplish? Do I want to force others to pay?

 

Wow, you must place the most amazingly wonderful caches if John Q. Geocacher would feel compelled to purchase a membership because he couldn't resist, dare I say couldn't go on living, without finding your MOC?

 

Reward the paying cacher?

Why not? But in many areas, all of the "regulars" are already paying members.

 

Feel superior?

Will you also refuse to use other premium features that come with a paid membership, such as PQs, to refrain from feeling "superior?"

[OuttaHand]

I see NO problem with your making the cache members only for a week, a month, or forever. BUT... as a member who is seeking it, I would certainly expect to see something that is just a bit nicer than every other XYZ cache out there.

I ponied up my money a couple months ago specifically because I was hoping to find some caches of a bit better caliber. So far I have not been disappointed. I've done two member-only caches so far. One was a foreign coin exchange -- had to have a foreign coin to exchange in the cache. The other was a foreign currency exhcange -- foreign paper money only to trade. They were both excellent caches. But I fear that if they had been "opened up" to the general caching population, they may soon have been over-run with McToys, etc.

I know -- I know --- paying for a subscription does not automatically make someone a good cacher who is going to respect the cache and the owner's wishes. But you have to admit that it's a lot more likely to be respected by those who have made a financial commitment to the hobby.

So go ahead and make it Members Only! But make it a good one, too! Try to make a cache that might make other say, 'gee -- maybe I'll pay to play!'.

[4x4van]

Most of you probably know my opinion on MOCs (discussed ad-naseum), but your idea sounds like a reasonable compromise.

[+LaPaglia]

Why is everyone picking on the ponies???

[AC Student]

I am going to make every cache I set from now on a Premium and Charter Members only for the first month.

Your idea sounds fine. Except, if it catches on in my area I'll have to become a paying member. I just couldn't wait a month to hunt every new cache.

[+JoGPS]

I have 20 or so members only caches and they will stay that way forever, why , because that is a perk to someone who supports the site like I do, and we are playing the same game…………… JOE

 

If you don’t like this pay up or shut up just stop complaining

[+TeamK-9]

Right now, I'm planning two geocaches. One of them is in a compromisable location. If the neighbors saw 20 cars at the trailhead parking lot in a one week period, they'd be concered. That cache is going to be members only for a month or two to try and limit the number of people who try the cache any given day...

[MOCKBA]

I am going to make every cache I set from now on a Premium and Charter Members only for the first month.

If you consciously wanna jump into a contentious and divisive issue, that's up to you. You may or may not get some flak for it. IMO you'll probably deserve it, since you lump yourself with those who call us non-paying members riff-raff, thieves, and/or vandals. But I suppose you've given it a consideration.

You should also consider that your cache will never be listed by Buxley's Waypoint, not even after you open it in a month, and thus those cachers who use Buxley's maps as a primary resource may never even notice that you've hidden something.

 

pay up or shut up just stop complaining

with all respect Jo ... you make a clear and loud statement by your hides and your posts. So, try being consistent & let others to speak up too.

But if you don't wanna hear any criticism, then you should change your ways or shut up and stop complaining.

[+JoGPS]

Part of what I pay in being a charter member goes to off set the “slackers” that do not and that gives me the right to complain.

 

Think about for a minute if everyone paid, the money would be flowing in to buy bigger and faster severs, there would be more funding for site enhancements.

 

Just about every Sunday when the site is soooooo slow, it gets me to thinking that if all the slackers paid their way all of this could be running so much faster.

 

And to keep this on topic “I Love MOC” ………….. JOE

[BassoonPilot]

Part of what I pay in being a charter member goes to off set the “slackers” that do not and that gives me the right to complain.

Is that true? I don't think so. You would be offsetting "the slackers" only if you were donating money above and beyond the membership fee charged. If you are, then good for you; "the slackers" are in your debt.

 

Think about for a minute if everyone paid, the money would be flowing in to buy bigger and faster severs, there would be more funding for site enhancements.

Why would you assume the increased revenue would necessarily be rolled back into the site? Would you expect, or demand, to pay less if everyone who used the site was a paying member?

Edited August 27, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[Colonel Mustard]

Part of what I pay in being a charter member goes to off set the “slackers” that do not and that gives me the right to complain.

 

Think about for a minute if everyone paid, the money would be flowing in to buy bigger and faster severs, there would be more funding for site enhancements.

 

Just about every Sunday when the site is soooooo slow, it gets me to thinking that if all the slackers paid their way all of this could be running so much faster.

 

And to keep this on topic “I Love MOC” ………….. JOE

Or if all the "slackers" got off the site, then the "paying" members would have very few caches to find and log. Bet that would REALLY speed up the servers!!!

[+JoGPS]

It seems only “slackers” don’t get the point. ………..JOE

 

Back on topic, think I will go hide more MOC caches

[BassoonPilot]

It seems only “slackers” don’t get the point. ………..JOE

Your point, which was absolutely clear, was that you don't have the vaguest idea what you are talking about.

 

I admire your consistency.

[MOCKBA]

think I will go hide more MOC caches

LOL make your future event caches members only ... that will teach 'em.

 

It's funny though that it's you who's complaining here ... about server overload and insufficient revenue and ingrateful users. Lighten up! I was just trying to warn the topic starter against stepping into a potential minefield, that's it.

======================================

As to the merits of member rewards and the shortcomings of Groundspeak's business plan... it's been discussed ad nauseum elswehere, why do it again, a markwell will do.

[4x4van]

Man, I really didn't want to get into this again, but being called a slacker changed that. Jo, who do you think you are, and what makes you think you're better than me? The fact that you've paid $30 to this site and I haven't? That's all? I've got news for you, if all the "slackers" archived their caches, you'd be pretty dang bored. I'd be willing to bet both your paycheck and mine that more caches have been placed by "slackers" than the "high and mighty PMs" such as yourself (and for clarification, I don't have anything against PMs, only against the "high and mighty" ones who seem to think that class and respect can only be purchased). If you don't consider "placing caches" supporting geocaching, then you have a mighty narrow view of this sport/hobby/activity, and I'd venture to say that you are hurting the sport more than you are "supporting" it.

 

A good number of my geocaching-related purchases have been made through websites listed on geocaching.com, which I've been led to believe a portion of those sales finds it's way back to this site. I've hidden a couple of well-received caches to support the sport, and have more planned. I've brought a number of new people into the sport who have also placed caches (for everyone, you included, to seek). I always trade up, CITO, tread lightly, improve caches that need help, provide help and answers to others in the forums, and try to never speak ill of other cachers. I'd suggest you get off your high-horse and accept the fact that ponying up $30 is not the only way to support geocaching.

 

In closing, Jo, I'd like to know if you put your mouth where your money is and only seek MOCs. If not, it would seem to me that you're being somewhat hypocritical.

Edited August 27, 2004 by 4x4van

[+welch]

Second reason is to promote discusion on this topic to see if I am way of base on my thinking.

 

Please comment I would like to hear other geocahers view on my proposal

My thinking is that if I'm going to place a cache in a public place for anyone that wants to seek and find, then it makes no sense to make it a MOC. If I wanted to place it for a certain set of people I wouldn't bother listing in it here, I would contact them some other way. Maybe with an email, or maybe with a closed site.

 

oh, and I think you need to correct this statement a little bit "That way the first to find honour will be someone who support Geocahing finanically.", since being a paid member at gc.com finanically supports part (a bit important part yes, but only a part) of 'geocaching'.

[Pipanella]

Man, I really didn't want to get into this again, but being called a slacker changed that.  Jo, who do you think you are, and what makes you think you're better than me?  The fact that you've paid $30 to this site and I haven't?  That's all?  I've got news for you, if all the "slackers" archived their caches, you'd be pretty dang bored.  I'd be willing to bet both your paycheck and mine that more caches have been placed by "slackers" than the "high and mighty PMs" such as yourself (and for clarification, I don't have anything against PMs, only against the "high and mighty" ones who seem to think that class and respect can only be purchased).  If you don't consider "placing caches" supporting geocaching, then you have a mighty narrow view of this sport/hobby/activity, and I'd venture to say that you are hurting the sport more than you are "supporting" it.

 

A good number of my geocaching-related purchases have been made through websites listed on geocaching.com, which I've been led to believe a portion of those sales finds it's way back to this site.  I've hidden a couple of well-received caches to support the sport, and have more planned.  I've brought a number of new people into the sport who have also placed caches (for everyone, you included, to seek).  I always trade up, CITO, tread lightly, improve caches that need help, provide help and answers to others in the forums, and try to never speak ill of other cachers.  I'd suggest you get off your high-horse and accept the fact that ponying up $30 is not the only way to support geocaching.

 

In closing, Jo, I'd like to know if you put your mouth where your money is and only seek MOCs.  If not, it would seem to me that you're being somewhat hypocritical.

 

That was very well said, 4x4van.

[+JoGPS]

This is great, the only difference between me and a slacker is that I paid 30 bucks, you are so right and have had 30 buck worth of fun in this thread alone.

 

I will ask straight up, are you having 30 bucks worth of fun geocaching or not and if you are why not support this site.

 

Yes there are other ways to support geocaching like hiding caches finding caches. Then you could but a T-Shirt or to but that puts very little money where it needs to go.

 

The 30 bucks is show of respect, and support for a sport that you love and appreciate all that that goes on behind the scenes

 

If you don’t like the sport, stop playing but if you do it just the plain right thing to do to…………. JOE

 

Back on topic, a member only event now that sounds like something cool to try.

[+welch]

If you don’t like the sport, stop playing but if you do it just the plain right thing to do to…………. JOE

 

Going off topic, but that statement comes out a lot better then

'pay up or shut slacker', maybe you should use that instead??

[+thisismeisthatu]

I did not realize the can of worms I was opening here. I do think it is important to finanially support Geocaching. Servers and internet access all cost money.. But that said I do recongnize the contribution the non-paying members do by hiding caches for everyone to fine. Myabe there should be some sort of credit system. For a certain amount caches hidding you can get a credit towards anything Groundspeaks sell so you use to pay or subsidize your membership or to by GC stuff. A Points program essentially.

Edited August 27, 2004 by thisismeisthatu

[BassoonPilot]

I will ask straight up, are you having 30 bucks worth of fun geocaching or not and if you are why not support this site.

"Why not support the site (financially)?" A few of the reasons I have seen mentioned in these forums since the inception of paid memberships:

 

1.When "subscriptions" were originally offered, some people were offended by the very concept of paid memberships. As I recall, they believed it smacked of "elitism."

2. People have expressed neither interest in nor need of any of the "premium features."

3. People have expressed a dislike of any number of site rules, guidelines, and/or policies.

4. People have complained bitterly that those rules/guidelines appear to be arbitrarily conceived and/or implemented.

5. People have complained that they have been mistreated, or treated unfairly, by paid or volunteer administrators.

6. People have flat-out stated, "I never pay for something I can get for free."

 

I offer no opinion as to the validity of any of those reasons. Personally, I was a "Charter Member" for two years. I am not currently a paying member.

Edited August 27, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[+sbell111]

Interesting thread.

 

I opened it up thinking that it was just going to be a rehash of the 'elitist' thread of a few months ago. As I was reading through it, I initially found it to be rather uninteresting. I was torn between markwelling the earlier topic or not responding.

 

Then I got to the incredibly rude posts of JoGPS. Shame on you. You are old enough to know to treat others with more respect.

 

The comments in this thread and the previous ones more than ably outline ways in which people give to the game and support the site in other ways than paying for a premium membership. A simple search will also find Jeremy's comments on this subject.

 

As far as BP being a slacker, I find this to be silly. I've been wandering around these forums for years now. I have participated in a number of threads in which BP has contributed. We have not always agreed, but his positions are (generally) well-reasoned and presented in a way that does not attack others personally. His participation has increased the quality of the forums and, therefore, given back Groundspeak.

 

In comparison, almost every post by JoGPS has been an angry attack on all those who disagree with him. Bah!

[+Triac]

There has been a lot of talk about this issue around Kansas City. I mostly started it too. Here's where I stand on it:

I DO support the site with 30 dollars per year. However, geocaching is not the only site I support with my hard-earned money. All total I probably spend over 100 dollars on just a couple of websites, geocaching.com being the cheapest and probably the best value.

I recently purchased my wife a gpsr. Since then, she created her own account and started logging the finds we both did together. That's cool and all, but she doesn't drive and will not go out caching by herself. Her and my sister recently took a trip where they both did one and she got to log it on her account.

The problem is...recently KC has been flooded with MO caches. Now I'm not against them by no means. But if we go out caching one day, we hit an area and do all the caches around, when we get home, she doesn't get to log them unless I buy another membership for the very few MO caches that are around.

We've discussed it around KC, and figured the best bet would be a family membership. Maybe 45 for your most bennies (pq's and such) and another log-in that gets to log MO caches but not PQ's.

I'd be all for that. Others have stated both ways of this topic...no MO caches...all new ones MO caches...

I just wanna cache!

[+Robespierre]

QUOTE (Robespierre)

I plan to pony up the dough. My civic duty. But I don't plan to pony up the hits on my caches. What would I be trying to accomplish? Do I want to force others to pay?

 

Wow, you must place the most amazingly wonderful caches if John Q. Geocacher would feel compelled to purchase a membership because he couldn't resist, dare I say couldn't go on living, without finding your MOC?

Really have to admire your consistency, creativity, and effort. You must have worked very hard to assume such poor motivation on my part, and to find a reason to oppose me at all times, and to fail completely to understand the point. Good work.

[+JoGPS]

Sbell111 said: Then I got to the incredibly rude posts of JoGPS and :In comparison, almost every post by JoGPS has been an angry attack on all those who disagree with him. Bah!

 

Steve I have invited you to dinner every month for the last six months and you have not changed a bit always trying to do something sneaky and pop good ole Joe on the forums and I have let you get away with it wishing we could get together and work things out, but I can tell this is not what you want so bring it on big boy take your best shot…….. JOE

[+SerenityNow]

Hey, hey, hey! What the heck is going on here? I thought personal attacks were off base in the forums! Maybe it would be a good idea for everyone to step back and take a deep breath!

 

Serenity NOW!

[+Renegade Knight]

There are also politics that go with the membership question. What's good for geocaching in the long run? That's where your money should go. That's where my money will go. For some that answer isn't Groundspeak. For others, it's thirty bucks of fun and games and cheap at the price.

[+=BB=]

Why not simply do whatever you feel is best for your cache placement?

 

To all who are non-paying members who whine: Are you really so cheap that you won't pay $30 for an annual membership to something you enjoy? Think about it - that's only 2 movies at the cinema! Bet you have no problem with paying for that!

 

To all who are non-paying members who do not whine: I am sorry if you feel like you are being lumped into the same crowd as the dead-beats by other users here. It is the whiners that really get us paying members riled up.

 

To all who are paying members: There are no members only caches in my area. Did any of you join just to have access to these caches? I joined because Pocket Queries are so convenient and because I believe in supporting something that I am so involved in.

[+SixTen]

Great idea thisismeisthatu.

 

Took me a while to cut through all of the posts here that have absolutely nothing to do with the question posed by the author...I think it's a good idea....let us know how it is received in your area.

[BassoonPilot]

Really have to admire your consistency, creativity, and effort. You must have worked very hard to assume such poor motivation on my part, and to find a reason to oppose me at all times, and to fail completely to understand the point. Good work.

Thank you. Your point was that you consider it your "civic duty" to financially support the website. I suppose that's as good a reason as any.

 

More to the point, I notice that you have been using the services of the website for over a year now, and have yet to "pony up the bucks." I'm not sure if that speaks of your "motivation" or your "procrastination."

 

I responded to those silly rhetorical questions you included in your post to point out that their inclusion served to obfuscate your point rather than support it. Didn't think I would need to spell it out like this.

[BassoonPilot]

Getting back on topic, I checked the logs on the last MOC I had placed. I had converted it to a "public" cache at some point after the FTF. When viewing those logs, it occurred to me that all of the cachers who sought the "public" version were subscribing members, anyway. I suppose that must speak well of how the geocachers in my area fulfill their civic responsibility.

[+sbell111]

Just out of curiosity, did you see any difference in the trading styles while it was a MOC v after it was converted to public. Many say they have MOCs because they put good stuff in and the trades are better for MOCs. I was wondering if this were true.

 

JoGPS- What does the fact that you invite all the local members to eat out together have to do with your behavior in the forums (or anywhere else)? I've invited you to play golf. The fact is, we will never eat or golf together. Also, how was my comment sneaky? I called you by name regarding your behavior. As far as shots go, you've been taking them locally for years, either pesonally or through your pals. Get over yourself and act your age.

Edited August 28, 2004 by sbell111

[BassoonPilot]

Just out of curiosity, did you see any difference in the trading styles while it was a MOC v after it was converted to public. Many say they have MOCs because they put good stuff in and the trades are better for MOCs. I was wondering if this were true.

Not in my experience. In the MOCs (that I've done) in my region, I've never noticed any difference in the value or quality of the cache contents in comparison to "public" caches. (It would be remiss not to mention that several "public" caches in the area have had far better quality trade items than any of the MOCs.)

 

My MOC was no different; the original cache contents were a few "Where's George" dollars and several of the usual types of trinkets. At the time the cache was active, people in my area were mostly non-traders or traded "WGs." The "WGs" were the only items I recall being traded.

[+Robespierre]

I responded to those silly rhetorical questions you included in your post to point out that their inclusion served to obfuscate your point rather than support it. Didn't think I would need to spell it out like this.

Actually, the rhetoricals were examples of reasons that don't hold water for me in my thinking. And the year...so far, I keep spending the bucks on swag and ammo boxes, but it will happen.

[BassoonPilot]

Actually, the rhetoricals were examples of reasons that don't hold water for me in my thinking.

 

I know. "Obfuscate" means "to make obscure." They clouded or weakened your point rather than supporting or clarifying it.

 

I responded to those silly rhetorical questions you included in your post to point out that their inclusion served to obfuscate your point rather than support it. Didn't think I would need to spell it out like this.

 

It boils down to this: Each of us decides if and when to support the site financially. We either do or don't, and the reasons for our decisions really don't matter at all to anyone but ourselves. But when we do become supporting members, we enjoy the ability to place MOCs in the manner described in the OP.

Edited August 28, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[+Robespierre]

Glad you clarified that you know what the word means, now if you can just learn to use it in an apporptiate place. You're making progress.

[BassoonPilot]

Glad you clarified that you know what the word means, now if you can just learn to use it in an apporptiate place. You're making progress.

Though I do have skills in several languages, I must admit I have never encountered the word "apporptiate" prior to today. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

Your post is a perfect example of why it is an absolute waste of time "being gentle" with people that do not know how to communicate in a clear, concise manner. I won't make that mistake with you again.

[+Anonymous']

In my local area there are no Premium and Charter Members caches. Not sure why. I guess the cache placer want to get as many people to there caches as possible. My way of thinking is if you really like geocaching then the $30 US dollars anuually is a small price to pay. In a effort to try and promote more people to pay the membershp fee. I am going to make every cache I set from now on a Premium and Charter Members only for the first month. That way the first to find honour will be someone who support Geocaching finanically. I realize that non paying member support Geocaching by placing caches. But it cost a significant amount of money to run the web site like this one. Without the moeny there would be no central location to find caches.

 

First reason I 'm posting this is to encourge other to do the same.

 

Second reason is to promote discusion on this topic to see if I am way of base on my thinking.

 

Please comment I would like to hear other geocahers view on my proposal

I've seen this idea used before. It's a good idea because us non premium members still get to find the cache eventually.

[Neos2]

Weird question here---out of curiousity---

If I were to place cache and make it members only for the first month, would I be able to see it--since I am not a member?

Could I even place a members only cache if I am a non-member?

[Not that I would do it mind you--although I plan to become a member someday, I will never place a members only cache]

[+welch]

Weird question here---out of curiousity---

If I were to place cache and make it members only for the first month, would I be able to see it--since I am not a member?

Could I even place a members only cache if I am a non-member?

[Not that I would do it mind you--although I plan to become a member someday, I will never place a members only cache]

No, and its same if your own a MOC and your paid membership lapes.

 

I don't know, but I would assume you can, unless a different cache submission form is loaded for paid members.

[Neos2]

Thanks Welch. I appreciate the info.

[avroair]

I brought up the same topic in the NE forums. After reading the thread, there seems to be no benefits to placing a MOC.

 

Neither of the two cachers with the most finds in our area (around 5000 between them) have premium accounts.

[+Mudfrog]

I have 20 or so members only caches and they will stay that way forever, why , because that is a perk to someone who supports the site like I do, and we are playing the same game…………… JOE

 

If you don’t like this pay up or shut up just stop complaining

I saw a couple of replies above stating that they thought it was ok as long as the caches didnt stay MO so they could have a chance at it later. Thats a bunch of bull malarchy! These people need to pay their measly $30 (or $3 a month) and become a member. It not only allows them the priviledge of finding MOCs, but more importantly, helps support the site that brings all of this together!!!

[Colonel Mustard]

You wouldn't be planning on hiding any of those "member's only" caches in public parks supported by non paying "Slackers", would you? I'd hate to think that a closed private group would be using a public facility for an ongoing activity.

[4x4van]

I saw a couple of replies above stating that they thought it was ok as long as the caches didnt stay MO so they could have a chance at it later. Thats a bunch of bull malarchy! These people need to pay their measly $30 (or $3 a month) and become a member. It not only allows them the priviledge of finding MOCs, but more importantly, helps support the site that brings all of this together!!! 

Don't get me wrong, I feel that geocaching.com is great, and is a major reason that caching has grown the way it has. It is by far the best site out there for this sport/activity. But it is not the reason for geocaching; that's simply putting the cart before the horse. If this site didn't exist, geocaching would still go on. The site doesn't make geocaching possible, geocaching makes the site possible. Sure, it might be a bit more tedious to find coordinates to caches without GC.com, but they would continue to be placed/hunted regardless, perhaps using other sites or a combination of various sites.

 

My position continues to be that there are a number of ways to support this sport, which either directly or indirectly supports GC.com. Paying $$ to the site is not the only way. Yes, premium members have every right to place MOCs, and to leave them MO. Just don't expect everyone to give you "high fives" for purposely excluding many worthwhile cachers based only on your idea of what is or is not "legitimate" support of the sport.

 

Again, I ask (the question that seems to be avoided by many MOC placers): "Do you put your mouth where your money is and seek only MOCs as well?" It just seems hypocritical to tell someone that while they are not good enough to seek out your caches, their caches are good enough for you to seek.

Edited August 30, 2004 by 4x4van

[+Charles Street Gang]

I'm doing a members only cache soon because I can count on members putting the cache back the way they found it (it will be a little complicated), Also, I like the idea of putting better things in the caches for the cachers that have found 300/500/ 1000 caches. They deserve something out of ordinary.