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Garmin Software On Apple Imacs ?


Egballe

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Hi Forum,

 

I am about to buy a new GPS unit when I get back from vacation. Since we have just taken up Geocaching as a family activity, the Garmin 60CS looks like an obvious winner. HOWEVER, the danish distributor told me that the Garmin software only works on PCs and not on my iMac OSX. This is of course extremely anoying, but before I give up I thought I would ask all you good folks at the geocaching forum if anyone has invented a fix ?

 

SO, are there anyone out there using the Garmin software and/or the mapsource software on iMacs? How about virtual PC ? Would that work ?

 

Thank you for taking the time to help a newbie.:o

 

Best regards

Jørgen

 

By the way, if you answer and wonder why I don't reply - I'll be offline for two weeks - but don't hold back I will probably buy the unit right after I get home. B)

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Hi Forum,

 

I am about to buy a new GPS unit when I get back from vacation. Since we have just taken up Geocaching as a family activity, the Garmin 60CS looks like an obvious winner. HOWEVER, the danish distributor told me that the Garmin software only works on PCs and not on my iMac OSX. This is of course extremely anoying, but before I give up I thought I would ask all you good folks at the geocaching forum if anyone has invented a fix ?

 

SO, are there anyone out there using the Garmin software and/or the mapsource software on iMacs? How about virtual PC ? Would that work ?

 

Thank you for taking the time to help a newbie.:P

 

Best regards

Jørgen

 

By the way, if you answer and wonder why I don't reply - I'll be offline for two weeks - but don't hold back I will probably buy the unit right after I get home. :D

Garmin Mapsource and Virtual PC are very friendly to one another.

 

Depending on your iMac's processor speed and memory you should have no problems.

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I recall hearing unhappiness when trying USB under VPC, but joy with serial. Can anyone confirm if the HCI's are sufficiently virtualized to allow the Garmin USB serial driver to work? (I don't own Macs, I just have a soft spot for anyone that isn't running windows.)

 

It's my plan to support OS/X with GPSBabel for Garmin USB, but I'm still awaiting answers from Garmin on a number of spec deviations...

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The Garmin software won't work with Macs (except for with Virtual PC), but there is plenty on Mac software out there that happily communicates with Garmin units via the serial connection.

 

The only things that you can't (currently) do without resorting to Virtual PC is upload new maps to your GPSr and use the USB connection... It looks like gpsbabel will soon solve the USB issues, however I think that hell will freeze over before Garmin writes software to allow Mac users to upload maps to their units. But then I have always found the base-map that comes with the GPSr perfectly adequate for what I do with it.

 

Try searching for GPS at VersionTracker to see a selection of the available software.

 

JeremyA

Edited by JeremyA
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Thank you all for the help. It looks a lot like I can do all the waypoint thingy from the Mac with various third party software, but I may need to dig out the old ball and chain (old PC laptop) to change maps. Too bad, but "doable" although I had promised myself not to stray from the path to enlightenment :o (Mac users will understand) :(

 

Best regards

Jørgen

 

Off on holiday in a matter of hours !

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Thank you all for the help. It looks a lot like I can do all the waypoint thingy from the Mac with various third party software, but I may need to dig out the old ball and chain (old PC laptop) to change maps. Too bad, but "doable" although I had promised myself not to stray from the path to enlightenment <_< (Mac users will understand) :)

 

Best regards

Jørgen

 

Off on holiday in a matter of hours !

join the club...

 

You are not alone here. It is something Mac users have to live with. Garmin's insistance NOT to provide OS X support. Sux to be us. DAMMIT, GARMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So a couple of comments, though everyone seems to have said everything.

 

For VPC, the processor is certainly an issue with, but a bigger issue is RAM. It's best if you can dish out for lots of RAM for your MAC and then give VPC about 768MBs. That speeds things up considerably. I upgraded my PowerBook just for this purpose, and it seems to have been worth it.

 

The other thing is, even though MacGPS pro can't upload routable maps (maybe it can, but I haven't been able to figure it out), it works pretty well. Their site mentions Garmin USB devices, so I'm not sure whether there's any problems. I use the GPS V (which is serial) so can't really comment. The upgrade (which is emailed to you free for a year), just arrived today, so the latest version is 5.2.0. What I do, when I can afford to, is have the Route 66 maps loaded into MacGPS Pro, and then leave the Garmin GPS V hooked up to it, and follow the directions on the much larger powerbook screen....This is incredibly inefficient and cumbersome....but it's an awfully big screen!

 

It's really too bad about Garmin. I love the routing and auto-re-routing software....but if they would just support Mac, we Mac users would have it so much better. Then again, none of the GPS manufacturers I know of support Macs, so it's a bummer....I'll tell you this, though. The first company to support Mac will win a customer right quick....I'll switch without blinking (unless it's Cobra...fo course)

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I recall hearing unhappiness when trying USB under VPC, but joy with serial.  Can anyone confirm if the HCI's are sufficiently virtualized to allow the Garmin USB serial driver to work?  (I don't own Macs, I just have a soft spot for anyone that isn't running windows.)

 

It's my plan to support OS/X with GPSBabel for Garmin USB, but I'm still awaiting answers from Garmin on a number of spec deviations...

That's correct. USB/GPS relationships are broken. But VPC7 (due out in a few weeks) is rumored to have fixed the problem.

 

As far as VPC speed I don't find it that slow at all. As long you you aren't trying to run something heavy on graphics it's very impressive. At least it ran fast on my TiBook 550. (I have an Aluminum 1.5 now) About the only complaint I really have with Mapsource is that with full map detail it takes a few seconds for the screen to update when zooming in/out. But that's more of a minor annoyance. Small price to pay for not having to invest in a PC just to do my GPS transfers and so fourth.

 

Also Windows 2000 runs much more efficiently than any of the other Window OSes via VPC.

Edited by jollybgood
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That's correct. USB/GPS relationships are broken.

 

What you're saying is that Garmin's USB drivers are broken under VPC, right? Not that USB in general broke under the last OS update?

 

Because USB is not broken for all adapters and drivers. My el-cheapo generic RS232-USB adapter (based on Prolific PL2303 chipset) works just dandy with under Mac OS X 10.3.5 and VPC 6.1.1.

Edited by lee_rimar
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I have a Garmin eTrex Vista C which is very nearly the same unit as the 60C/CS, softwarely speaking, except smaller, slower, different (internal) antenna, and less memory. It also only has a USB connection, not Serial/USB. It seems that any of the Garmin units that have serial ports, you can connect to the mac through a serial port or a serial-usb converter like the ones from keyspan (which have nice mac drivers). But if you plug the USB connection from the garmin into the mac VPC6 cannot use it. Basically it shows up in the USB device list as "unknown device" and you can select it but it won't stay selected and never becomes visible to Windows. If anyone has gotten a Vista C to work, I'd love to hear how. I'm using Windows 2000 in the virtual pc.

 

That would be really nice if VPC7 corrects this problem -- right now I'm stuck using an ancient dell laptop to do the mapsource stuff, not my shiny beautiful powerbook =)

 

-s

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I am very loyal to mac also. I bought a Lowarance ifinder specifically because I wouldn't have to use any windows based applications. I simply put the 256 meg card of my provience into the ifinder and I have all the detail that I will ever need for 99% of my trips. It's like a mac in that regard, just put the map in and it works. :D

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I, too, have been annoyed by the lack of GPS software for the Mac,

So I'm writing one.

 

CacheKeeper will run only on OS X initially, and if I get enough support, I'll release Windows and Linux versions as well.

 

CacheKeeper will be very Geocache-friendly. The initial list of features is: ability to save waypoint lists, logging of waypoints you've nabbed, drag-and-drop of .loc files into the app for immediate upload to your Garmin, and maybe the ability to auto-create routing for a bunch of waypoints. The goal is to make getting geocache waypoints into and out of the gps without relying on VPC. :D

 

I'm early in development now, but hope to have at least a beta out sometime in October. So far I'm talking happily to my GPS III Pilot and GPS 12 over a Keyspan serial adapter. Thanks to Garmin's developer-friendly attitude, I plan to support all Garmin GPS units available at the time the app is released (however I'll really depend a lot on beta testers to provide feedback for units I don't have access to).

 

So that means I could use some beta testers. :mad:

 

Let me know if you're interested. When I can find the time I'll throw together a registration page and progress page. For now, the basics can be found at geocache.aviate.org. Links will appear sooner or later on that page for more detailed info.

 

-PilotMike-

Programmer/Pilot

Apple Computer

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Hmmm...I'd have to say you're correct. :/

 

I don't know much about the Garmin USB models. However, given the driver protocol info, a USB driver can be written fairly easily (I've written USB drivers for OS X before). I did not see any information about USB protocols anywhere on the site, and it'd be a rather involved process trying to "sniff" out the specifics by listening to the port itself.

 

Then there's the small issue of not having one here to even fiddle around with!

 

If I ever get my hands on a USB model I may look into it. For starters, only serial models will be addressed.

 

-PilotMike-

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However, given the driver protocol info, a USB driver can be written fairly easily (I've written USB drivers for OS X before). I did not see any information about USB protocols anywhere on the site, and it'd be a rather involved process trying to "sniff" out the specifics by listening to the port itself.

I've spent scores of hours with a USB protocol analyzer capturing traces from Mapsource & their driver with intent of coding GPSBabel to implement it with libusb which should work on OS/X. Their doc isn't complete enough to do it from scratch.

 

The protocol is a train-wreck. The doc is worse. I pointed out a wild number of discrepencies between their doc and reality and they published a new doc that omitted many of the things that were wrong. I guess that's one way to fix it. :-)

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I have a Garmin eTrex Vista C which is very nearly the same unit as the 60C/CS, softwarely speaking, except smaller, slower, different (internal) antenna, and less memory. It also only has a USB connection, not Serial/USB. It seems that any of the Garmin units that have serial ports, you can connect to the mac through a serial port or a serial-usb converter like the ones from keyspan (which have nice mac drivers). But if you plug the USB connection from the garmin into the mac VPC6 cannot use it. Basically it shows up in the USB device list as "unknown device" and you can select it but it won't stay selected and never becomes visible to Windows. If anyone has gotten a Vista C to work, I'd love to hear how. I'm using Windows 2000 in the virtual pc.

 

That would be really nice if VPC7 corrects this problem -- right now I'm stuck using an ancient dell laptop to do the mapsource stuff, not my shiny beautiful powerbook =)

 

-s

see my other post in this forum -- VPC7 was released today.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virt...?pid=highlights

 

According to the compatibility lists Garmin USB Progammer is NOT compatible. No mention of Garmin USB enabled units however. So who knows?

 

But this doesn't look good. Hopefully someone whill buy VPC7 and post the verdict.

 

I'm not going to upgrade unless I'm certain it's a fix.

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Just to throw something into the mix, there's an odd thing that's always puzzled my about VPC with USB. There are really TWO different ways to get VPC to see a USB device on your Mac:

 

1) Install Windows drivers for the device into your virtual/guest operating system, and make sure "enable usb" swicth is set in VPC preferences.

 

2) Do not "enable usb" in VPC preferences. Instead, install Mac drivers for the device, and configure your virtual/guest system to treat the Mac's USB port as if it were a standard serial device at COM1: or COM2:

 

Intuitively, I would have though option 2 would work better: A regular com port should be easier for VPC to emulate, and letting the Mac handle the complexity of the USB port natively should work just fine. But whenever I've tried it that way, it's been unreliable.

 

On the other hand, option 1 works just fine. Any idea why that is?

Edited by lee_rimar
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I don't have experience with OS/X directly, but I have some background with serial, USB, and OS innards.

 

Option 2 sounds tempting, but there can be problems with that if the native OS driver doesn't naturally provide a service needed by the emulated OS interface. For example, if you're using the Windows API that interleaves bytes of data and control information and the serial driver you're using for OS/X doesn't provide that because OS/X doesn't need it. (I don't know if it does or not, it's an example) things are going to be dicey in the program that sets that specific mode.

 

Also note that option 2 isn't an option if there are no native drivers available; for example you couldn't get install the Garmin 60/USB (USB, not serial) driver for OS/X becuase there's the minor detail that it doesn't exist.

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... For example, if you're using the Windows API that interleaves bytes of data and control information ...

In computer terms, RS232 is an ancient standard for conveying a simple stream of bits; the OS shouldn't do any more than deal with documented send, recieve, and handshaking lines. No wonder things break; all them "helpful" APIs make emulation/conversion is a moving target.

 

... isn't an option if there are no native drivers available; for example you couldn't install the Garmin 60/USB (USB, not serial) driver for OS/X becuase there's the minor detail that it doesn't exist.

I know; I made my original comments only thinking of USB->RS232 converters. Up until now the biggest problem USB posed for me (and I imagine many other people) was getting legacy RS232 equipment to work on USB-only equipped computers. But as vendors start making their own custom USB implementations, things will get a lot worse.

 

Makes me wish for the good old days :P when getting a SCSI chain working was a matter of black magic and sheer luck. USB is rapdily becoming today's SCSI - supposed to make life easier, but just makes more work for the techs.

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just so you know there are other things that you can't update on the garmin other than than the maps....

 

their software updates.

 

That is where i am running into trouble. I would like to update the sys os on my legend but can't do being it is an .exe file.

 

Guess i will have to either find a PC user willing to let me sabatoge(borrow) for second, or give VPC7 a try...

 

jb

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Here what I've been told recently (correct me if this is untrue).

 

Serial works just fine because of two things. Low bandwidth requirements: Serial based protocols use less bandwidth and as such can exist in emulation mode inside a faster physical connection (i.e. USB). that's why COM port setups work so easily. Second and more importantly, it's unrecognized by default in Mac OSX, so OSX never tries to supercede any applications trying to take control of this emulation-mode port.

 

USB on the other is a a physical connection and protocol that IS recognized by the Mac OSX. So the Mac OSX and any other applications or virtual operating systems conflict when attempting to take control of the port.

 

Hmmmm....don't really know whether this is true, but it rigns true to my non-eeducated ears.

 

If VPC7 really fixes the problem, I'll be happy. But, many OSX users won't have a G5 (those of you who do are lucky), and all the optimization work for VPC7 is focused on G5, leaving the rest of us G4 and under users either very slow, or without compatibility in many areas. I'm fearful here.

 

Someone else asked how I have MacGPS Pro and Route 66 working together. The answer is, I don't. It had been some time since I've used non-VPC methods for connecting to my GPS V, so i forgot what i had done. Route 66 works as is, and with MacGPS Pro, I used a web map. I stopped using this method because it is quite frankly useless for anyone who needs to adjust routes on the fly, have new routes created on the fly, or for anyone who makes wrong turns even with a GPS (that would be me...yes). For Garmin GPS's, only MapSource data files can give you the POI database, road direction database, and speed limit database inside a GPS. Nothing else works.... So I've been forced to use VPC and MapSource over Serial. Pre-loading maps is usually useless because on a multi-city trip, I have to reload new maps to my GPS at night in the hotel room.

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Just grabbed the USB SDK from Garmin. It looks like I may be able to write USB support into Mac CacheKeeper after all and support USB GPSr's from Garmin. :rolleyes:

 

[ inserts hysterical laugher here ]

 

Yeah, be sure to let me know how that's going for you. When I reported thirteen discrepancies between their LAST protocol spec and what I observed on the wire with a protocol analyzer, their response was to release the revised USB SDK with _even less_ information.

 

That's seemingly the Garmin way of curing doc outtages. Remove the doc...

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