Shunra's Punk Watch

3.5k · August 25, 2004

Moved this topic out of the Buck's Crossing topic.

Here is what it is about:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...79-3df0ad25df2e

Edited August 25, 2004 by EraSeek

1.2k · August 25, 2004

Moved this topic out of the Buck's Crossing topic.

Here is what it is about:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...79-3df0ad25df2e

Thanks, Eraseek, for bringing this up. It took me a long time to get to writing that log, but yesterday I pushed myself to writing it. One has to move on. So far, Rose has been y main concern, but she is doing a great deal of recovering by telling the story and expressing the terror she felt in pictures (among other places in cache log sheets), so I should be able to do the same by writing about it.

According to a policeman friend, this incident would count as 'assault with a deadly weapon'. He also says that premeditation is not an issue, which, in my layman's opinion, qualifies this assault as attempted murder. Both I and the punk wanted me to get off that car. I would have jumped if I could, if he had slowed down a bit. He, however, preferred to shake me off at high speed, and that's what he did. That's a choice he made, in my book.

The punk appears to live in Stanwood (Snohomish County), but the incident happened just north of the county line, in Skagit county. I hope this won't complicate things. The Skag.Co. detective on the case wrote to me yesterday:

I have been able to identify the suspect through my investigation and
have developed probable cause, which is what I need in order to arrest

someone. A photo line up is not critical and at this point in time, I do

not plan on using one (for many reason's that are difficult to

explain....).

The family of the suspect has been extremely cooperative. They are

trying to convince him to turn himself in.

The suspect currently has two outstanding warrants for his arrest,

therefore it is not critical that an arrest warrant concerning this

matter be issued ASAP, however, if he is not in custody by weeks end, I

will take the necessary steps to request an arrest warrant.

At this point I wonder how long this is going to take. The man is still on the run. I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

August 25, 2004

That is just so scary. Things could have been so much worse. Lucky that Tolmaus was there to hang onto Rose. I hope they find that punk soon.

August 25, 2004

Punk is too nice a word.

9.5k · August 25, 2004

Gald to hear you and Rose and Tolmaus are doing better from the first time you and I messaged on this. I hope the guy turns himself in soon. It will certainly bode better for him rather than staying on the run.

Stay with the force Shunra. Even after the physical healing is over, it takes a longer while to get over these issues and future fears and paranoia.

1.2k · August 25, 2004

Punk is too nice a word.

It's a word that just stuck. We needed a word to use in conversation with Rose, so as not to create a taboo atmosphere. Talking is important. I wasn't going to use 'white trash' around Rose, although that's the other phrase that came to mind. Similarly, Rose now refers to Mill Town Crossing as the Burglars Cache, so that's what it's going to be.

1.3k · August 25, 2004

Hopefully Leatherman will be guarding him in no time.

5.9k · August 25, 2004

FYI: The GC.com site is no longer available through the AF firewall. So for those of us that cannot folllow that link, what is this about?

9.5k · August 25, 2004

That sucks, Criminal.

Here's the text of Shunra's log:

Washington Sunday, August 15, 2004

Shunra found Skagit Cache Raiders #4 - Mill Town Crossing (Traditional Cache)

This is a hard log to write.

I returned to this cache with my daughter Rose (6) and tolmaus, intending to clear up a DNF. My previous visit must have been during a bad hair day for the GPS, as it led me across that bridge and into the river. This time it behaved nicely, and we found the cache quickly.

As we returned towards the car, we saw that another car was parked next to ours, and that a stranger was sitting in our car. I rushed toward him, and as he saw me he jumped out and into his own car, carrying one of our daypacks with him. I caught up with him just as he jumped into his own car, and I reached into his half-open window in order to get that bag back. He stared at me, and suddenly he sped of. My arm was stuck inside, and he dragged me along, hanging on the outside of his car.

He meandered across the road at at least 40 MPH trying to shake me off. Of course, there was nothing I wanted more than being let off, but at that speed I didn't dare let go. As he was driving, he threw some of our items out of the car. My PDA and GPS, tolmaus's camera... Perhaps he thought I'd let go if I got my stuff back, but at that point, I wasn't after him or our bag anymore; all I wanted was to survive, and at the speed I was going I was hanging on for my life. I yelled for help and called on him to stop. He never slowed down. I don't know if he realized that trying shaking me off at the speed he was driving could have killed me, but that's what he was trying to do.

About half a mile down the road he succeeded in shaking me off, and fled the scene. As I'm writing this 10 days later, he's still fugitive. Tolmaus took his license plate, and the Skagit County sheriff's office says they are on the case.

As I fell onto the road, I managed to make a roll to limit the impact. Oncoming traffic had stopped on the side of the road, and several people had called 911. I stayed on the road for what seems to me like a long time, then I checked whether anything was broken, and when I found I could walk, I limped back to our own car, picking up some of our items on the way. I must have been on an extreme adrenaline rush.

Rose's impulse had been to ran after me, as she saw her daddy being dragged away, but Tolmaus hugged her and shielded her from what might have been a gruesome sight. I really appreciated that. After getting back to them, I spent the very long time that it took the deputy to arrive hugging Rose; she was thoroughly shaken, and she still is, whenever she thinks about it. I have seen people with post-traumatic stress in my life, and I know that the feeling of helplessness as you're daddy is being dragged away might stay with her for a long time. And of course, with Tolmaus and myself as well.

After the deputy made his reports and left, we started to concentrate on healing. We continued the caching day as planned, and told and retold the story, expressed our fears and feelings about the assault in words and - in Rose's case - in pictures in cache logs.

As I'm writing this ten days later, I'm still sore, but the wounds are healing. Rose and Tolmaus appear to be OK, for now. The young man - an 18 year old punk from Stanwood - is still fugitive.

We used to like to visit Stanwood; we always stopped at the Cookie Mill for a cinnamon roll. We should soon go there again, visit the place of the assualt, and then go for a cinnamon roll and enjoy stanwood the way we used to. We need closure, and we won't let that bastard ruin the memories we like.

Especially since there's two more caches in Stanwood that I haven't done yet

1.3k · August 25, 2004

I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

I'm no lawyer, but I've cached with a few.

I don't think you'd be harmed by retaining counsel. At the very least they can help explain the process, charges and possible outcomes for the punk.

Edited August 25, 2004 by Wander Lost

2.7k · August 25, 2004

Punk is too nice a word.

I agree! That is scary!! Hope they catch him before long.

1.1k · August 25, 2004

I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

I'm no lawyer, but I've cached with a few.

I don't think you'd be harmed by retaining counsel. At the very least they can help explain the process, charges and possible outcomes for the punk.

In the criminal proceedings the prosecuting attorney will represent you and the rest of the community. That’s who will put him into Leatherman’s care.

Now if you wanted to go after the punk in civil proceedings to recover damages ($$) you would need to retain a lawyer on your own. The problem there is that punks usually don’t have enough current net worth, or future income to garnish, to make it worthwhile.

August 25, 2004

What a terrible experience ! Sounds like it certainly could have turned out even worse. You are a lucky man. . The saddest thing is to see a little bit of innocence taken from child when something like this happens. I wish you all the best outcome, and hope the punk is behind bars soon ! L.

3.5k · August 25, 2004

'white trash'

Mind you, trash is trash. No qualifier needed.

2.6k · August 25, 2004

I'm happy to offer my sevices. However I dought, if he is caught, he would get more than six months for this crime. Maybe even time served.

Sorry.

1.2k · August 25, 2004

Meanwhile, if you need a good laugh for therapy, do a google search for dumb criminals and you'll feel better.

1.3k · August 25, 2004

I'm happy to offer my sevices. However I dought, if he is caught, he would get more than six months for this crime. Maybe even time served.
Sorry.

Yeah. Sad.

Shunra said something about attempted murder. While I don't disagree with him, if the worst would've happened, I bet there would've been a plea to vehicular manslaughter or something lame like that. Maybe something a little more stiff because it was in the commision of a crime like second degree manslaughter.

In any case, it's lame that the Leatherman won't be supervising this guy.

1.2k · August 25, 2004

'white trash'

Mind you, trash is trash. No qualifier needed.

I know. That's what upset me about the undertones in the other thread, where the non-white ethnicity of Ronnie was showcasted, and the entire thread evolves about Ronnie's process, and not about the one of his white co-conspirator and co-assailant, about whom nobody seems to care in that thread.

That's why I said I was sticking with 'punk' in this one.

1.2k · August 25, 2004

I'm happy to offer my sevices. However I dought, if he is caught, he would get more than six months for this crime. Maybe even time served.
Sorry.

Yeah. Sad.

Shunra said something about attempted murder. While I don't disagree with him, if the worst would've happened, I bet there would've been a plea to vehicular manslaughter or something lame like that. Maybe something a little more stiff because it was in the commision of a crime like second degree manslaughter.

In any case, it's lame that the Leatherman won't be supervising this guy.

Actually, in prison he's continue to be a burden to the taxpayer.

I'd rather see the guy rehabilitated. Make this a win-win-win situation for him, society and myself.

As long as he's on the run, none of this is relevant, of course.

1.3k · August 26, 2004

'white trash'

Mind you, trash is trash. No qualifier needed.

I prefer "human debris."

1.3k · August 26, 2004

I know. That's what upset me about the undertones in the other thread, where the non-white ethnicity of Ronnie was showcasted, and the entire thread evolves about Ronnie's process, and not about the one of his white co-conspirator and co-assailant, about whom nobody seems to care in that thread.

I think you're reading too much into it. It's an easy way to differentiate: Ronnie and the white guy.

You'll meet my friend Jarod at Mt. St. Helens who is black (some will say African-American, but he's kind enough not to call me a European-American, so I return the curtesy of kicking the hyphenation). Anyway, if we're standing next to each other and someone wants to know which is which, there is a verrrry easy way to tell the difference.

Actually, in prison he's continue to be a burden to the taxpayer.
I'd rather see the guy rehabilitated. Make this a win-win-win situation for him, society and myself.

You're way more optimistic than I would be in your situation. I worry, though, that this guy who already is obviously known by the police is always going to be a burden on society. I worry about the next guy who might actually be killed in front of his kid when his rehab doesn't take.

But, you're the victim, so hey, you can take that up with the DA, I guess.

9.5k · August 26, 2004

Anyway, if we're standing next to each other and someone wants to know which is which, there is a verrrry easy way to tell the difference.

Ummmm.... you're bigger than he is?

1.3k · August 26, 2004

Anyway, if we're standing next to each other and someone wants to know which is which, there is a verrrry easy way to tell the difference.

Ummmm.... you're bigger than he is?

No we're about the same size, which makes telling us apart so hard.

24.7k · August 26, 2004

Sorry to hear about your mis-adventure. You will heal, I think your focus on Rose is the right angle, that is a much, much, tougher issue.

4.8k · August 26, 2004

Crikey I'd say something, but I'm afraid I'd just spew and make my warn meter go up.

Our prayers are with you, and your family Shunra.

Just remember, the good people in the world way outnumber the crappy ones.

3.5k · August 26, 2004

I agree with Bull Moose. You've read too much into that. I worry about people who are so hung up on race and hyphenations. It's really not a healthy for us as individuals or as a society. I also have a friend at work. He isn't an African-American, he's an American.

The probable reason that they are going after Ronnie alone is that is was the focus of the assault. They'll probably threaten his buddy and use him in the prosecution.

3.5k · August 26, 2004

Our prayers are with you, and your family Shunra.

Just remember, the good people in the world way outnumber the crappy ones.

I also wholly agree with this post.

August 26, 2004

Wow! What a horrible experience to go through and even worse to have it happen in front of Rose! Hope both of you make a speedy re-adjustment back into the “normal” world.

Actually, in prison he's continue to be a burden to the taxpayer

But at least he would be a well behaved burden under Leathermans supervision!

3.8k · August 26, 2004

I have been able to identify the suspect through my investigation and
have developed probable cause, which is what I need in order to arrest

someone. A photo line up is not critical and at this point in time, I do

not plan on using one (for many reason's that are difficult to

explain....).

The family of the suspect has been extremely cooperative. They are

trying to convince him to turn himself in.

The suspect currently has two outstanding warrants for his arrest,

therefore it is not critical that an arrest warrant concerning this

matter be issued ASAP, however, if he is not in custody by weeks end, I

will take the necessary steps to request an arrest warrant.

At this point I wonder how long this is going to take. The man is still on the run. I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

Shunra,

So sorry to read about all this. I hope you, Rose, and tolmaus can get a handle on this and can move on soon. You're right, of course, taking care of Rose has to be first on your list.

If the cops know who he is, and if the jerk's family is "cooperating", WTH are they waiting for him to give himself up? If the family is being so helpful, seems to me they could just tell the cops where to find him.

And he already has two warrants out? And the cops knew where to find him? What kept them from picking him up on the other warrants? Krispie Kreme have a sale that day???

Absolutely get a lawyer. The family knows where he is, but won't roll him over. I would find a good lawyer, and see what I could do to them for all their "help".

Other posters are right. If you sue the creep, you probably will never get anything. On the other hand, if you did, and won, maybe you could slap a lien on anything he ever did buy. Like a house.

I'm not a big believer in rehabilitation. I also do not believe in getting "even". There is no joy in a tie. I am a VERY BIG believer in revenge. The jerk's 18, let him take the fall. He wants to be an adult, and do bad adult things, then hammer him into the ground.

All I can say in closing is, if it were me in your shoes, I would do everything I could to this guy, and, if needed, his "helpful" family.

Take care,

Mark

1.2k · August 26, 2004

I know. That's what upset me about the undertones in the other thread, where the non-white ethnicity of Ronnie was showcasted, and the entire thread evolves about Ronnie's process, and not about the one of his white co-conspirator and co-assailant, about whom nobody seems to care in that thread.

I think you're reading too much into it. It's an easy way to differentiate: Ronnie and the white guy.

You'll meet my friend Jarod at Mt. St. Helens who is black (some will say African-American, but he's kind enough not to call me a European-American, so I return the curtesy of kicking the hyphenation). Anyway, if we're standing next to each other and someone wants to know which is which, there is a verrrry easy way to tell the difference.

I'm entirely with you, Bull Moose. I am entirely un-PC and don't like the hyphenation hype and the liberal touchy-feeliness which, oddly, is hardly ever shared by the 'beneficiaries' of those titles themselves. But I *do* look at substance, and in that case, the focus on one guy and the lack of of follow-up on this forum about what happened to the other guy was too obvious to ignore. Maybe I read too much into it, but the reason is certainly not PC-ness!

Actually, in prison he'd continue to be a burden to the taxpayer.
I'd rather see the guy rehabilitated. Make this a win-win-win situation for him, society and myself.

You're way more optimistic than I would be in your situation. I worry, though, that this guy who already is obviously known by the police is always going to be a burden on society. I worry about the next guy who might actually be killed in front of his kid when his rehab doesn't take.

But, you're the victim, so hey, you can take that up with the DA, I guess.

First of all, I'm a survivor. I won't let that punk make me into a victim, nor will I take on a victim attitude. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm looking forward.

(I know you didn't mean to imply otherwise, but it's something I feel very strongly about right now, and which is important for Rose too to overcome this situation)

To the point of what you say: you're obviously right. But I hear on this forum that he won't get more than 6 months. Well, even if he got 6 years, he'd be out there again in a short while, attacking other people. So, if they're going to let him go anyway, I'd prefer rehab, community service, and long-term probation. I prefer to have even just a 5% chance of success if the legal system is going to let him out onto the streets in a few months anyway.

Edited August 26, 2004 by Shunra

1.2k · August 26, 2004

I have been able to identify the suspect through my investigation and
have developed probable cause, which is what I need in order to arrest

someone. A photo line up is not critical and at this point in time, I do

not plan on using one (for many reason's that are difficult to

explain....).

The family of the suspect has been extremely cooperative. They are

trying to convince him to turn himself in.

The suspect currently has two outstanding warrants for his arrest,

therefore it is not critical that an arrest warrant concerning this

matter be issued ASAP, however, if he is not in custody by weeks end, I

will take the necessary steps to request an arrest warrant.

At this point I wonder how long this is going to take. The man is still on the run. I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

Shunra,

So sorry to read about all this. I hope you, Rose, and tolmaus can get a handle on this and can move on soon. You're right, of course, taking care of Rose has to be first on your list.

If the cops know who he is, and if the jerk's family is "cooperating", WTH are they waiting for him to give himself up? If the family is being so helpful, seems to me they could just tell the cops where to find him.

And he already has two warrants out? And the cops knew where to find him? What kept them from picking him up on the other warrants? Krispie Kreme have a sale that day???

Absolutely get a lawyer. The family knows where he is, but won't roll him over. I would find a good lawyer, and see what I could do to them for all their "help".

Other posters are right. If you sue the creep, you probably will never get anything. On the other hand, if you did, and won, maybe you could slap a lien on anything he ever did buy. Like a house.

I'm not a big believer in rehabilitation. I also do not believe in getting "even". There is no joy in a tie. I am a VERY BIG believer in revenge. The jerk's 18, let him take the fall. He wants to be an adult, and do bad adult things, then hammer him into the ground.

All I can say in closing is, if it were me in your shoes, I would do everything I could to this guy, and, if needed, his "helpful" family.

Take care,

Mark

Dear Mark,

I am asking myself the same quaestions, and I have only partial answers.

What I was told is:

- the family cooperates, but doesn't know where he is. He has occasionally called someone on the phone, and then they talk to him and try to convinve him to turn himself in. The family, of course, is not required to cooperate with law enforcement, and the sheriff's dept. considers their willingness to talk him into surrender himself a positive thing.

- The warrants that were out are bench warrants, which apparently allows law enforcement to take the guy into custody if they happen to stumble upon him, but doesn't allow them to actually go after him. The Skag.Co. detective told me that the latter kind of warrant would be issued if he hasn't turned himself in by the end of the week.

Personally, I find those answers unsatisfactory and frustrating, but what can I do?

As to "Find a good lawyer" - how do I go about that? Should I look for an ambulance chaser type, who will try to get the maximum for a percentage? Do I look for someone here in Jefferson County, which will save me out-of-pocket expenses, or do I look for someone in Skagit, who might know the people there?

As to nailing the guy for life: Of course I want a lien on everything he'll ever buy. But if he stays on the course he's on right now, he's never going to buy anything. So what's the point? I don't believe in revenge, but I believe in tough love. Very tough love. I won't have satisfaction from knowing that he's going in and out of jail for the rest of his life, courtesy of my tax money. I will have satisfaction from making him work hard to earn what he needs to compensate me.

1.3k · August 26, 2004

First of all, I'm a survivor. I won't let that punk make me into a victim, nor will I take on a victim attitude. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm looking forward.

(I know you didn't mean to imply otherwise, but it's something I feel very strongly about right now, and which is important for Rose too to overcome this situation)

Yeah. I certainly meant victim only in the technical sense that if there was a crime, there was a victim.

From the little I know of you from the forums and such, I'm sure you won't let anyone victimize you. Heck, that's what got this going. Many people just would've too scared to do anything but watch the guy leave and then call the cops. You took it to him.

1.2k · August 26, 2004

Our prayers are with you, and your family Shunra.

Just remember, the good people in the world way outnumber the crappy ones.

Yes, thank you all for your prayers, wishes, sympathy, and good advice.

I really appreciate being part of this community.

And as to the good people outnumbering the crappy people: I think we all have good and crappy sides, and fortunately, in most people, the good parts outnumber the crappy parts.

Thanks!

3.5k · August 26, 2004

A minor thing, but how's your GPS and PDA. You said he tossed them. Are they still functional? Also what injuries did you get in the experience?

August 26, 2004

I have been able to identify the suspect through my investigation and
have developed probable cause, which is what I need in order to arrest

someone. A photo line up is not critical and at this point in time, I do

not plan on using one (for many reason's that are difficult to

explain....).

The family of the suspect has been extremely cooperative. They are

trying to convince him to turn himself in.

The suspect currently has two outstanding warrants for his arrest,

therefore it is not critical that an arrest warrant concerning this

matter be issued ASAP, however, if he is not in custody by weeks end, I

will take the necessary steps to request an arrest warrant.

At this point I wonder how long this is going to take. The man is still on the run. I wonder if this is the right time to seek an attorney, and whether that would obstruct or speed up police efforts to convince the man to turn himself in. The Skag.Co. Detective is not authorized to advise me, she can only update when something happens. Which, for two weeks, hasn't been the case.

Shunra,

So sorry to read about all this. I hope you, Rose, and tolmaus can get a handle on this and can move on soon. You're right, of course, taking care of Rose has to be first on your list.

If the cops know who he is, and if the jerk's family is "cooperating", WTH are they waiting for him to give himself up? If the family is being so helpful, seems to me they could just tell the cops where to find him.

And he already has two warrants out? And the cops knew where to find him? What kept them from picking him up on the other warrants? Krispie Kreme have a sale that day???

Absolutely get a lawyer. The family knows where he is, but won't roll him over. I would find a good lawyer, and see what I could do to them for all their "help".

Other posters are right. If you sue the creep, you probably will never get anything. On the other hand, if you did, and won, maybe you could slap a lien on anything he ever did buy. Like a house.

I'm not a big believer in rehabilitation. I also do not believe in getting "even". There is no joy in a tie. I am a VERY BIG believer in revenge. The jerk's 18, let him take the fall. He wants to be an adult, and do bad adult things, then hammer him into the ground.

All I can say in closing is, if it were me in your shoes, I would do everything I could to this guy, and, if needed, his "helpful" family.

Take care,

Mark

Ok, thanks for the kind words ...Have you considered that as a Law Enforcement Officer I would probably love to take every warrant to jail? Unfortunately, most of the time, the jails have no room. Or, I can't afford to lose an officer off patrol for two to three hours for transport and booking. Did I mention that the vast majority of the time, when we do take someone to jail on a warrant, they see the judge, promise to return, pay their fine, comply with restrictions, etc., get released and then disappear until they are picked up on the next warrant? Can you say "FRUSTRATING"?!

Unfortunately, having an address for him doesn't mean much. These types don't usually make very good tenants/roomates. They tend to move around a lot.

Anyway, I'd love to pick him up for you Shunra...

1.2k · August 26, 2004

A minor thing, but how's your GPS and PDA. You said he tossed them. Are they still functional? Also what injuries did you get in the experience?

A minor thing indeed. My PDA (well, the one I am borrowing from my son since I lost mine two months ago) is doing remarkably well. The stylus popped out of its socket and is gone (and other styli obviously don't fit), but the PDA itself is doing just fine.

The GPS too! Although I found it with it's screen side on the concrete, there's only one big scratch on it, and a tiny bit of the rubber casing is chipped of where the external antenna connects.

I can still cache :-)

For a while I had intense pain in my jaw, but nothing is visible, and X-rays showed nothing. I was going to go to a dentist, but it's less pain now. I don't have dental insurance, and dentists are a big out-of-pocket expense.

For the rest, just skin and tissue damage. Internal bleeding, some muscle tissue torn. No fractures. On Friday I'll have a follow-up date with the doctor, and I'll pick up the report. A copy has already been sent to the sheriff's dept.

1.2k · August 26, 2004

If the cops know who he is, and if the jerk's family is "cooperating", WTH are they waiting for him to give himself up? If the family is being so helpful, seems to me they could just tell the cops where to find him.

And he already has two warrants out? And the cops knew where to find him? What kept them from picking him up on the other warrants? Krispie Kreme have a sale that day???

Ok, thanks for the kind words ...Have you considered that as a Law Enforcement Officer I would probably love to take every warrant to jail? Unfortunately, most of the time, the jails have no room. Or, I can't afford to lose an officer off patrol for two to three hours for transport and booking. Did I mention that the vast majority of the time, when we do take someone to jail on a warrant, they see the judge, promise to return, pay their fine, comply with restrictions, etc., get released and then disappear until they are picked up on the next warrant? Can you say "FRUSTRATING"?!

Unfortunately, having an address for him doesn't mean much. These types don't usually make very good tenants/roomates. They tend to move around a lot.

Anyway, I'd love to pick him up for you Shunra...

Thanks, Sarge!

Do you think internal pressure might help? I'll be happy to give you the e-mail address of the detective in charge of the investigation.

Edited August 26, 2004 by Shunra

August 26, 2004

Unfortunately, my stomping grounds are some distance from both you and the Skagit County SO. However, It should be just a matter of time until this maggot gets picked up. It sounds as if the detective has made decent progress. When the judicial process gets moving, remember to stay in contact with the prosecutor, and let him know what you'd like to see happen with this case. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. Anyway, I'm glad to glad to hear that you feel at least somewhat better.

1.3k · August 26, 2004

I worry about people who are so hung up on race and hyphenations. It's really not a healthy for us as individuals or as a society. I also have a friend at work. He isn't an African-American, he's an American.

Slight off topic but I had to comment on this one. Whenever I have to fill out a form and there is a spot for race, I mark myself down as OTHER and fill in the blank provided HUMAN. I even did this on our 2000 Census forms. I just hope that somewhere someone gets a slight chuckle out of it or it makes them think for a second.

On topic, glad to hear your electronics are okay. I could have offered up a spare unit if you needed it.

Edited August 26, 2004 by Wander Lost

1.5k · August 26, 2004

I can tell you from personal experience that it's most likely not going to be worth the trouble to hire your own lawyer to seek compensation from a dirtbag like that. You'll likely win in court, but all he has to do is declare bankruptcy and he won't ever have to pay you a dime. Worse, you'll still have to pay your lawyer.

August 26, 2004

Unfortunately, my stomping grounds are some distance from both you and the Skagit County SO. However, It should be just a matter of time until this maggot gets picked up. It sounds as if the detective has made decent progress. When the judicial process gets moving, remember to stay in contact with the prosecutor, and let him know what you'd like to see happen with this case. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. Anyway, I'm glad to glad to hear that you feel at least somewhat better.

MAGGOT! thats much better

August 26, 2004

Hey, Shunra. I'm deeply saddened by your story and really wish that everything comes to a closure in the near future.

How is your daughter doing? With a 1yr old daughter myself, I'm instantly going over in my head how I'd react and I see myself probably doing the same thing. Do you think you would have acted any differently if you and she were the only ones there? I'm reassured that you were lucky enough to have someone else with you.

In a couple of years, I would no doubt be taking my daughter out caching so that I can get into my pre-baby caching pace. Even though this happened far from my stomping grounds, it really does freak me out a bit.

Here's hoping that the coward is brought to justice.

1.2k · August 26, 2004

Hey, Shunra. I'm deeply saddened by your story and really wish that everything comes to a closure in the near future.

How is your daughter doing? With a 1yr old daughter myself, I'm instantly going over in my head how I'd react and I see myself probably doing the same thing. Do you think you would have acted any differently if you and she were the only ones there? I'm reassured that you were lucky enough to have someone else with you.

In a couple of years, I would no doubt be taking my daughter out caching so that I can get into my pre-baby caching pace. Even though this happened far from my stomping grounds, it really does freak me out a bit.

Here's hoping that the coward is brought to justice.

Hi CW,

That's a very tough question you're asking. What I did was pure instinct - run after him and get my bag back. I hear that police offers are taught to resist such instincts. And indeed, the man could have had a gun. I suppose it would have been wiser if I had just let him get away with our things and not risk my life.

The realization that I was doing something dangerous only dawned upon me when he was taking off and I couldn't get my hand out fast enough. I had never expected him to do that. I wasn't being heroic, holding on to a criminal's car. At that point, I just wanted him to stop and let me go. He preferred to try to shake me off at high speed.

To get back to your question: I believe my instinct to stay with my daughter would have been stronger if tolmaus hadn't been with me. But now I knew she was safe with her, and I acted intuitively, not rationally.

I don't know what I would do if it were to happen again. Maybe I'd act more rationally next time and just let him get away. But maybe I will project my anger at this punk on the next one, and try even harder not to let that one get away. In addition to my instinct, I would be following a need for closure. The chances that I act rationally and let the NEXT one get away will be better if I get closure on THIS event.

In light of what I hear from you guys about the likelihood that he will be out of jail in a few months if he will be caught at all, and that he will never pay me a penny, I don't know how I will get that closure. That is frustrating.

Indeed, rerunning the event through my head with variations, thinking about what might have happened, what I would do another time, etc., is my current nightmare material. it started only a week after the event, once I could afford to take some attention of Rose's successful coping mechanism. Initially, I thought I had come off pretty well, but I believe I have managed to take over the burden from her. That's my job as a daddy. She sleeps well now. And I should remember that if I had been killed, I wouldn't have been able to take on that burden.

It's complicated

3.5k · August 26, 2004

From what I've seen of such things, you can never win, or come out even, you always end up with a loss, even though it is never the fault of the victim. So expect that. Keep you loss to a minimum and move on. Do whatever you can to help justice deal with the guy. As you know, family comes first. Passing events in life are a side bar. Be sure to keep it that way. Keep it from becoming the monster in the house by not over-emphisizing it.

1.2k · August 26, 2004

I never did have kids (and now I am starting to get to the age where it won't be a consideration).

BUT, if I had a daughter, I would raise her on "Xena" and "Buffy" and other "females kick butt" TV shows. Also enroll, her to kid karate and Krav Maga classes. (Krav Maga practically translates to "Don't mess with me. EVER.")

She would grow up to know how to kick serious you-know-what and take names if necessary by the time she reaches 10 years old. That's one kid female who could really take on the world with a minimum of psychic trauma and real confidence, if or when when serious crap happens.

Then we'd both would both volunteer to protect the guys in any geocaching groups we hang in. Rock on, kid.

I really wish I had been raised that way. Mine would have been a better life if I had. Just my thought du jour, for what it's worth...

Edited August 26, 2004 by Sparrowhawk

1.2k · August 26, 2004

From what I've seen of such things, you can never win, or come out even, you always end up with a loss, even though it is never the fault of the victim. So expect that. Keep you loss to a minimum and move on. Do whatever you can to help justice deal with the guy. As you know, family comes first. Passing events in life are a side bar. Be sure to keep it that way. Keep it from becoming the monster in the house by not over-emphisizing it.

Thank you, Jim. Those are very wise words, Jim, and my gut feeling is the same. Family first, minimize emotional damage, things are just things, move on.

And for almost two weeks now, I have been trying to live by that. Getting it out of my mind. Absolving Rose of her burden.

But I have lived for 16 years in a war zone, albeit in a relatively shielded way. I know how old traumas suddenly resurface. Single events are not side bars. Real closure is needed. Lack of closure might express itself in bad intuitions next time I'm in danger - see my response to CW.

I am not having high expectations of the American legal system - and nothing that's been said here encourages me to raise them, although a pleasant surprise would be very very helpful. I'll have to find other ways of closure. If I find them, I'll have become a stronger and better man, and I'll have come out as a winner. That's what I intend to do.

I'lll move on, but unfinished business has to be taken care of, on various levels.

August 26, 2004

Al-Anon has pretty much co-opted it as theirs, but I think the serenity prayer is very applicable in helping get past events like this. "Help me to have the strength to change the things I can, patience to accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference".

Being in law enforcement, I have had to deal with critical stress many times over the years and with what comes after, usually for me, lying awake while my mind races thinking about all the what ifs and how I could have reacted, or worse, the dreams where the event replays over and over just on the edge of being awake. I find that I have to consciously stop myself, then have a little conversation to remind myself emphatically that the event is in fact OVER AND DONE and what could have happened didn't and nothing will ever change that. I can't go back and do it again better, and whatever worse that could have happened to me or someone else also didn't happen. I tend to be pragmatic that way anyway, but it really helps me stop the endless replay loop of the event and get back under control.

This is not denying an event occurred or denying your emotions. It's closure of the event that has passed, clearing your mind to deal with what is to come. Whatever successes or failures I had I learn from and take with me so that I can do it better next time. Stress can be destructive or productive. You sometimes have to consciously decide that it will not be destructive and channel it into something productive. This will always be an event in your life, hopefully just not one that defines you. I hope you heal quickly, mentally and physically.

On a side note, the prosecutor could look at this crime several different ways - Assault 1, Vehicular Assault or even Robbery 1, since the assault was used to facilitate the theft, which would also be a Theft 1, given the value of the items taken. Once the suspect is in custody (and it doesn't matter what kind of warrant it is, the cops can arrest him just the same) find out what he is being charged with. If it doesn't amount to much, talk to the prosecutor about these other charges and find out, politely, why he's doing what he's doing.

August 27, 2004

Shunra, I'm very sorry to hear what happened. How horrible. It sends shivers up my spine. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured. Give Rose lots of hugs and continue to talk to her about it. If things like this are discussed, everyone will heal from it faster.

BUT, if I had a daughter, I would raise her on "Xena" and "Buffy" and other "females kick butt" TV shows. Also enroll, her to kid karate and Krav Maga classes. (Krav Maga practically translates to "Don't mess with me. EVER.")

Our girls have seen just about every episode of Buffy (thanks to mom) and took 6 years of karate. We hope they can defend themselves if necessary but they are still just kids. If something like this happened I'm sure they would be quite shook up.

Our thought are with you and Rose. Maybe we'll meet on the trails some day.

1.2k · August 27, 2004

Shunra, I'm very sorry to hear what happened. How horrible. It sends shivers up my spine. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured. Give Rose lots of hugs and continue to talk to her about it. If things like this are discussed, everyone will heal from it faster.

Thanks, 4G, that's exactly what we're doing, it it helps.

Writing here helps me too.

As to meeting you on the trails - I might be caching in your backyard on Sunday :-)

3.5k · August 27, 2004

Indeed, rerunning the event through my head with variations, thinking about what might have happened, what I would do another time, etc., is my current nightmare material.

Thought this quote might fit in here.

"Every individual... has to retain his way of thinking if he does not want to get lost in the maze of possibilities. However, nobody is sure of having taken the right road, me the least." ~Albert Einstein

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