Need Opinions On Cemetery Question

[Luffliffloaf]

Hello. I have a question:

 

There is a no-longer-used abandoned cemetery nearby. One of the once-tall tombstones has fallen over into a few pieces. There is a small hole in the top of one of these toppled pieces of tombstone that a 35mm canister would fit in perfectly. Only the top of the canister would stick out a little. I would place the canister in the hole and then cover the top of the canister with glued-on sand, so as to emulate the sandstone tombstone it would be sitting in. Think about those caches with the hollowed out stick stuck into the side of a tree basically.

 

I don't know if anyone has ever placed a cache in a cemetery where it is actually touching a gravestone. Is this forbidden or worse, desecration? I actually want to draw people to this place and maybe help organize something to get it cleaned up and soforth if possible. If the concensus is that a cache touching or sitting on a tombstone is not allowed or illegal or whatnot, I would have to then at least ask why any physical caches are allowed anwhere in any cemeteries at all. I mean is a micro behind a tombstone or in a tree in the cemetery any less disrespectful than a cache sitting on a tombstone? Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

Edited August 20, 2004 by Luffliffloaf

[+briansnat]

I have no problem with cemetery caches done tastefully, but putting a cache in a headstone is overstepping the bounds of good taste IMHO.

Edited August 20, 2004 by briansnat

[+2qwerqE]

Cemeteries that are owned by the city/county are public property; but each of those plots was bought and paid for by a family or individual, and is private property. No matter how long 'abandoned' that plot is, the person it's intended for is still 'in residence,' in perpetuity.

 

Find a place along the perimeter, in a tree, or in a common area such as a gazebo, to place your film canister.

[koz]

and remember: no digging!

[+eddthejailer]

i would have to agree with brian on this one.touching an upright ok to me but to actually be in one that is damaged would not only look bad on us but using damaged headstones to hide caches may incourage other who know where these no longer "used" cemetaries are to break one so they can hide a cool cache.

 

a little off topic but arent the poor souls in these cemetaries still "using"them????

 

just because there no longer burying psople in this cemetary dosent mean it dosent have visitors who visit there loved ones here.

 

when i die tho i was thinking very hard about having a tombstone with the flower pot holes in the top with a cache in it hopefully maintained for me bu someone who is living but the longer i thought about it i guess that not kosher either is it!!

 

find i great place close by to hide your cache but please dont use a headstone out of respect for its "user"

[Keystone]

In Ohio, where you hide caches and I review them, cemetery caches seem to be extremely popular. There are any number of caches that are tastefully placed, at a comfortable distance from any headstone. Some take you to a piece of Revolutionary or Civil War history. Some use information from *viewing* the tombstones as clues in extremely clever puzzles. Some just offer a nice spot for a walk. And I know of several where the hider has proudly told me that the cache is placed with the full knowledge and encouragement of the cemetery, who recognize that having geocachers as visitors is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

I am fairly liberal in assuming that the owner of the cache has obtained permission, or at the very least has placed the cache tastefully. There are other reviewers who question the owners of cemetery caches very carefully, on the theory that they are, in many cases, private property of the church or other non-governmental association that owns and operates them.

 

But I can safely state that the reviewers would be unanimous in telling you that you cannot place a cache right on a grave, tomb, etc., without obtaining permission from either the cemetery owner/manager or the family of the person buried beneath your microcache. If I can tell from reading the cache description during the review process, including the encrypted hint, that the cache may be hidden on or near a person's grave, expect an e-mail from me. Likewise, when a cache hidden in this manner has come to a reviewers' attention following the cache being listed, we've been quick to ask the cache owner to confirm proper permission or else move or remove the cache.

 

I very much appreciate your asking IN ADVANCE of placing your cache. I hope that this response is both clear and helpful. I am very happy to see all the new caches sprouting up in your area, and I look forward to hunting for them in a future roadtrip.

[+joefrog]

But I can safely state that the reviewers would be unanimous in telling you that you cannot place a cache right on a grave, tomb, etc.

Yeah, and not to mention the fact that you'd be breaking some serious horror movie rules....

 

Joefrog's Cemetary Survival Guide

 

When it appears that you have killed the monster, *never* check to see if it's really dead.

 

If you find that your house is built upon or near a cemetary, was once a church used for  black masses, had previous inhabitants who went mad or committed suicide or died in some horrible fashion, or had inhabitants who performed satanic practices in your house move away immediately.

 

Never read a book of demon summoning aloud, even as a joke.

 

Do not search the basement, especially if the power has gone out.

 

 

If your children speak to you in Latin or any other language which they should not know, or if they speak to you using a voice which is other than their own, shoot them immediately.  It will save you a lot of grief in the long run.  NOTE: It will probably take several rounds to kill them, so be prepared.

 

When you have the benefit of numbers, *never* pair off and go it alone.

 

As a general rule, don't solve puzzles that open portals to Hell.

 

Never stand in, on, above, below, beside, or anywhere near a grave, tomb, crypt, mausoleum, or other house of the dead.

 

If you're searching for something which caused a noise and find out that it's just the cat, *leave the room immediately if you value your life.*

 

If appliances start operating by themselves, move out.

 

Do not take *anything* from the dead.

 

If you find a town which looks deserted, it's probably for a reason.  Take the hint and stay away.

 

Don't fool with recombinant DNA technology unless you're sure you know what you're doing.

 

If you're running from the monster, expect to trip or fall down at least twice, more if you are of the female persuasion.  Also note that, despite the fact that you are running and the monster is merely shambling along, it's still moving fast enough to catch up with you.

 

If your companions suddenly begin to exhibit uncharacteristic behavior such as hissing, fascination for blood, glowing eyes, increasing hairiness, and so on, get away from them as fast as possible.

 

Stay away from certain geographical locations, some of which are listed here:  Amityville, Elm Street, Transylvania, Nilbog (you're in trouble if you recognize this one), the Bermuda Triangle, or any small town in Maine.

 

If your car runs out of gas at night, do not go to the nearby deserted-looking house to phone for help.

 

Beware of strangers bearing tools such as chainsaws, staple guns, hedge trimmers, electric carving knives, combines, lawnmowers, butane torches, soldering irons, band saws, or any devices made from deceased companions. 

[+Mr Smiles]

I suppose that I am just horribly irreverent, but this is what came to mind when I read this thread:

 

My Epitaph

 

Here lies Smiles, his caching days through.

Batteries went dead and he did too.

Hide or seek ‘em here...log your find,

A dadgum sure thing...Mr Smiles won’t mind!

 

Mr Smiles

[+Spencersb]

I hid this one:

Old Raleigh Cemetery

for much the same reason you want to, hoping to generate some iterest in saving a neglected historical site. I was not comfortable placing the cache itself actually IN the cemetery, which the historical society in charge frowned upon as well. There was a large city park nearby so I hid the cache itself there and used numbers from a couple of old broken monuments (sound familiar?) to perform a math problem to get the cache numbers. I agree, some people would not mind, I know I wouldn't, I may even have a film canister built into my tombstone, but I think it's disrespectful to assume, especially if there's no way to ask the family. I'm sure the DECEASED doesn't care, not now anyway, but I do. JMO, but I think there are ways to do a unique hide without messing with headstones.

 

Now a FAKE headstone, designed to look real old and blend in with the rest of them, in an area where there are no real graves...hmmm

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

I love old cemeteries and would not hesitate to do one like that, and I would enjoy it............but...........knowing how much damage someone can do when they dont find the cache right away, then this type of cache in the cemetery seems wrong. I can see one cacher moving all the pieces around and tearing up parts of the grave in an effort to find the cache. That kind of impact would fall under desecration to me.

 

Cemetery caches are popular there? I wish they were here. Only 2 in my state that I know of. Ive been debating about doing a couple in some small cemeteries and one on a statue shrine in another in my area.

[+Team ARK-ville]

I am involved in a lot of genealogy research and use cemeteries extensively for such purposes. I would have no problem with a micro near a cemetery as long as it is nowhere in, on, under or around a gravestone or other marker.

Vandalizm of cemeteries and deteriation of very old cemeteries is becoming a problem in our area and any added problems from folks like ourselves looking for a cache is just not the right thing to do.

Given the problems we are having placing (any) caches in the Catskills is enough. Let's not give the Powers That Be, any more excuses for not letting us place caches.

[Luffliffloaf]

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

I am glad that I started this post. Now, having read your responses, I clearly realize that placing the cache which I had contemplated would be a bad idea. Cemetery caches are such a sort of taboo/tricky area that I felt it was best to ask before I just went and placed something. Hopefully others in the future who have similar questions will find this thread and learn from it. I think that I will for now put the idea of a cemetery cache on the back burner and give it some more thought.

 

Thanks for your input. More thoughtful discussion on the good and bad of cemetery caches would also be welcomed.

[+n5psp]

There is a cemetery multi-cache around here that ultimately is more of a "milli" rather than a "micro" - big enough for small to medium travel bugs, that the actual container is a flower vase, complete with artificial flowers sticking out the top.

 

You have to calculate coordinates from several other headstones criss-crossing the cemetery, and learn a lot about the history of the area.

[+tirediron]

I have no problem with cemetary 'caches in concept, however.... A couple of random thoughts... Could you explain exactly how a cemetary can be abandoned? Unmaintained, dis-used, okay, but abandoned? Short of digging up all the graves and relocating the "inhabitants"...

 

As to the question of putting the 'cache in the headstone, my concern would be that this would lead to greater damage of the already crumbling marker. Granted it would be unintentional, but over time, it could be significant. As has already been pointed out, unmaintained or not, the plots are still owned by someone....

[+Natureboy44]

I've place a cache in a cemetery but was very careful to ensure that nothing had to be trample or walked over and could be found without violating the respect that I feel should be preserved in a cemetery. I think this can be done a number of way, but ultimately the ability to find the cache without violating this respect should be the final evaluation. I also suggest you clearly indicate on the cache page that others should remember to not only be respectful of the surroundings, but other people or mourners who may be there for more personal reasons.

[+WebbyCat]

I have several cemetery caches that I've placed, but I just don't like to put a cache near a gravestone. I always place the cache in an area that is not close to any gravestones.

[+SerenityNow]

Cemetaries make wonderful cache sites as long as the cache is tastefully placed. We have one placed away from the graves but a walk through the graves themselves provides a great history lesson!

 

One inner city cemetary cache we did recently in Cleveland Ohio was incredible. While the hide was fairly straightforward and respectful of the surrounding graves, we stumbled upon the tombstones of two American Indian chiefs in the process. There were ears of corn on the graves. Yup, their ancestors remember them often and in the Indian tradition, bring gifts to the gravesite. We spent along time reading the stones and marveling at the cultures of other nationalities and ethnic groups.

 

The cemetary you are describing, Luffliloaf, sounds like one we would enjoy exploring. Since we are near your area we hope you will find a site within it to hide your cache so we can go investigate! How about on the edges or something?

 

Happy Caching!

[+Alan2]

Tacky and disrespectful and probably illegal as its private property.

How would like someone walking on your grandmother's head while they are playing a game?

Edited August 22, 2004 by Alan2

[+Colorado Cacher]

Very tacky and disrespectful.

[+Torry]

Would be neat for sure but I side with the majority. Along the perimeter, at the gate, under a bench, bit NEVER on a grave or stone.

[+ChileHead]

How about the next one of us who dies makes their tombstone hollow with a cache in it?

[+The Puzzler]

When I die, you are welcome, no encoraged to go ahead and use my headstone as a hiding place for a geocache. I think it would be a great momento for a cache enthusiast to have his/her grave marker as a cache hiding place. Hmmm. Maybe a custom headstone that had a speacial hinding place in it?

[+Robespierre]

I'm surprised that no one MARKWELLED you to old threads, but here's the gist:

-you need to be very considerate of the living who may be in the cemetary.

-the deceased are not a consideration (Biblically) unless in your background they are, hence a guilty conscience. ("absent from the body = present with the Lord" - for those religions which follow Scripture).

-you need to be very considerate of the property.

Now, we have a very active cemetary here which could still have a cache in the woods, but I think it is best NOT to use.

But I have a nice little cache in Jackson Twp. cemetary which is seldom visited. The cache is not among any graves, but in the fence row of a back corner. It also is an interesting place to look around.

You might search for old threads, too.

[rebapac]

Placing a cache to draw attention to a neglected historical site will take a long time for that seed to gerninate and grow. There are better ways to get such a project off the ground, of course they require your commitment to the project from begining to end. You can never depend on "THEM" or "THEY" to pick up the ball you have thrown onto the field. Place the cache tastefully, but talk to the powers that be to get your preservation/restoration project rolling.

Edited September 18, 2004 by rebapac

[+Beta Test]

If I keel over any time soon my headstone will be part of a cache. Either the container itself, or having the coord inscribed on it.

[+geoSquid]

I would consider a cache hidden in a known cemetary to be rather disrespectful and inappropriate - even if the cemetary has fallen into some disrepair.

 

Perhaps that's just me. YMMV.

 

Near a cemetary, but outside is ok, but in a cemetary or worse, on a stone in a cemetary, crosses the bounds of good taste and propriety.

Edited September 19, 2004 by geoSquid

[+Awsome Ev]

ask sixdogteam they have alot of cemetary caches. maybe they can help:)

[+Team Neos]

Cemeteries are great places to visit. Our views of them have changed over the last hundred years or so. I did a study of some local cemeteries when I was in college, and learned many,many things that I did not know before.

 

For instance, here in the midwest, many very old cemeteries were located on hilly land that had large nut-bearing trees. The land couldn't be used for farming (too hilly and the soil was too acidic) but using it for a cemetery offered a great solution. When loved ones died, they were buried on the hill, near the trees--offering a perfect excuse to visit the graves when the nuts were ripe. You could visit the gravesite and pay your respects to the dead, and gather nuts to use for baking.

 

That attitude carried over into families, and some folks had regular days that they went to the cemetery to tend to the graves. My aunt had been raised that way, and all her life she went once a month to visit the grave of every family member (She rotated through various cemeteries each Sunday). I remember as a child being taken with her to vist the cemetery. She would pack a lunch, and make a day of it. She would tend the grave (weed, replace old flowers with a new arrangement or a wreath for the holidays, etc.) while I wandered about reading te stones. I would call out the names on the stones and she would tell me tales about those people that she remembered---or stories that her relatives had told her about the ones she had never met. When the work was done we would have our picnic lunch on a bench nearby, or even on a blanket spread near the graves.

 

Judging from the number of people I meet when I am in cemeteries doing genealogy, my aunt was not an unusual person.

 

I love cemeteries...they are peaceful interesting places to me. I like caches hidden in cemeteries...but I agree with the majority here

__The headstones are not the place to hide the cache___.

Too much chance of accidentally harming a fragile stone, especially in the East where acid rain has weakend the rock. Most cemeteries offer many places to place a cache without getting near a headstone. Walls, fencelines, trees, bushes, directional signs, etc. are all super places to hide a cache, and offer a variety spots to hide different caches sizes, too.

[Fire_Fly]

Hiding a cache in a cemetary does not mean you have to hide it right on a grave. There is very interesting history to be found in cemetaries. Also, it is my understanding that Victorian cemetaries were more like parks, people would pay their respects, and spend time there, even having picnics. I may be wrong, but I am almost certain I have read about that. I have gone to several caches in cemetaries, I don't find it to be a problem. Maybe that is also because I live right across the street from one. I don't know, just be respectful.

[+westumbledonit]

Here is what I think is a good example of a muti micro cache that used gravestones for gathering information for the coordinates. The final was on the property, but not at a grave site. "Tour de Sequim (part 1)" (GCGMZV)

 

Beardedbosn

[+Anonymous']

I don't like the idea of the original post because its disgracing the deceased person.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I don't see the "disrespect" everyone else seems to. The occupants haven't had any visitors for a while, the way it sounds. When you're there getting the cache be sure and say 'Howdy" to those inhabitants.

 

The only ones worried about disrespect are the kinfolk and if they really cared about their relatives they would have spent a little time keeping the place in better condition.

 

Was it disrespectful of the old pioneers to bury their dead in the middle of the "road" so all the wagons, horse, and cattle would trample the graves, in an effort to hide the grave from those who would desecrate it?

 

I'd be pleased if when I'm gone, someone goes to all the trouble to get others to visit me.

 

John

[+joefrog]

I don't see the "disrespect" everyone else seems to.

Me either. In fact, if I DO have a tombstone, it'll have a space for a micro or even an ammo can.

 

And for you bicycle riders, I'll be buried "buns up" so you'll have a place to park your bike!