Stop It!

4.7k · August 18, 2004

PLEASE don't put nice little tags and bugsheets and baggies on my TB's. if i'd wanted to give lots of little instructions i would have done so at their release. if i wanted to order people around on my bug's page, i'd have done it.

i am sick to death of having to track them all down and get this stuff removed.

IF you find one of my TB's, feel free to add items. feel free to paint it. feel free to strand it in a cache in the antipodes. just don't put one of those bug sheets with it.

and IF for some reason one of my TB's becomes so large and tangleprone that you really NEED a ziploc in order to keep it together in your bag, then and ONLY then will i be happy about it.

and now as a special service to other bug owners, i'm emailing people whose bugs i hold and asking them if they'd like me to remove the goofy bugsheets for them. i have sent out requests to the cachig mailing lists to which i belong asking other cachers to remove these things from my bugs when they find them.

i know there are many of us who would appreciate it if everybody didn't assume we want those things on our bugs.

22k · August 18, 2004

whatever

Maybe you should put a sheet with them saying that.

Edited August 18, 2004 by Elf Danach

August 18, 2004

Sorry dude, but when I find just a bug with nothing else attached how am I supposed to know where it wants to go, even if it is just treveling around. People will not take bugs unless they know for sure what it's goal is. Therefore, put an informational sheet with it, it helps it.

2k · August 18, 2004

I think they are his bugs so it is his choice. Before altering any bug I feel you should contact the owner first.

As far as not knowing what the goal of the bug is I always check that before I go out on the cache hunt by clicking on the link for the bug on the cache page.

Personally I don't see a 'major' problem attaching sheets, however attaching sheets and ziploc bags etc. could add to the size of the bug so it may not fit in certain caches.

Edited August 18, 2004 by Eric K

2.5k · August 18, 2004

I don't understand how you don't care how many tags get attatched to it, but you mind that it's in a baggie.... Hmm... change the dynamics of a bug or protect it from getting ruined. Yeah, I see why not to protect it.

24.7k · August 18, 2004

I don't understand how you don't care how many tags get attatched to it, but you mind that it's in a baggie.... Hmm... change the dynamics of a bug or protect it from getting ruined. Yeah, I see why not to protect it.

They don't want anything at all on or around the bug. If the bugs stuffed guts were spilling out all over then the baggie would be ok. That's how I read that post.

2.5k · August 18, 2004

They don't want anything at all on or around the bug. If the bugs stuffed guts were spilling out all over then the baggie would be ok. That's how I read that post.

IF you find one of my TB's, feel free to add items. feel free to paint it. feel free to strand it in a cache in the antipodes. just don't put one of those bug sheets with it.

Looks to me like you can do anything except say what the bug's goal is.

Like I said, I just don't understand why we can paint it purple and make it furry but we can't add a little piece of paper saying this bug is supposed to [whatever it's goal is].

Wouldn't adding 42 tags saying "Welcome to my TB hotel" or whatever take up more space in a cache/cause more problems/etc then adding a baggie to keep it dry?

4.7k · August 18, 2004

do i get to say what i want done with my bug? if y'all are so concerned that it gets its goal right, try the goal of NOT having baggies and tags.

August 18, 2004

do i get to say what i want done with my bug? if y'all are so concerned that it gets its goal right, try the goal of NOT having baggies and tags.

Okay, so put NO goal sheet on the bug and do not put it in a baggie. Then, make a note on the bug's page (in LARGE letters and maybe in some shade of red) that says:

PLEASE DO NOT ALTER MY TB! I *DO NOT* WANT A GOAL SHEET ATTACHED OR HAVE IT PLACED IN A BAG. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, if someone takes your bug and checks the TB's page to see if it does have a goal, they will see your note right there on the TB page with your specific instructions.

I attach goal sheets to my TBs and I do place them in a bag. Personally, I appreciate it when someone wants to help my bug by making a new goal sheet or replacing the bag.

But, you are right. It is YOUR TB and you should be able to have it travel however you like. Emailing the TB owner to see if they mind having their bug in a baggie or with a goal sheet attached would probably be the best answer.

But if any of you find my bugs and they need a new sheet or baggie, feel free to replace them!

4.7k · August 18, 2004

i don't want to clutter up my bug page with more instructions. i think that's just as bad. i also do not want to have to make a note asking people not to allow children to ingest it, or not to drop it in the disposal.

but for reference, if i find a bug that was apparently released with a tag and a bag, if they need replacing, i will replace them with new ones. i will laminate them if i have to. if i am unsure about the owner's intent, i will drop an email and ask. i don't assume.

and i don't care if you alter the TB. if you think it would look good with fur, add fur. if you would prefer it to be purple, purple it is. it's not the baggie and the sheet i really object to. it's all the little fussy instructions. "take my bug here." take my bug there." "only move it on wednesdays." "if you move it in the wrong direction i will email you every other day until it is rectified."

so i really don't want to add more little fussy instructions to mine. if i find yours in need of repair, i'll repair it. if i need to drive it four counties over to help it move, i may do that. if i come upon yours in a remote cache and it has a lot of instructions on it, i'll leave it there.

when i see a sheet that says "only pick this up if you are willing to help it toward its goal" and the goal is "to travel randomly", i giggle in an unkind fashion and wonder how much of a commitment that's going to be. what's the point of the warning?

last night i picked up one that weighs about four pounds and makes a lot of noise. it had no apparent goal, and i took it just to see what it wanted. turns out it wants people to add stories and trinkets. some people have added trinkets, but do they add stories? they do not. instead they say "picked this up. will drop it off soon."

i intend to hold onto this sucker until i have something interesting to add and something interesting to say.

oh. and it has a ziploc. i think it needs it, owning to the massive tangle. i'll send a note to the owner asking what s/he would like me to do. don't cast me nuthin extra, and i'll have been a good citizen.

and by the way, although it's fine with me if you add fur, you probably should ask, because some people would rather you didn't.

2.5k · August 18, 2004

do i get to say what i want done with my bug? if y'all are so concerned that it gets its goal right, try the goal of NOT having baggies and tags.

Of course you get a say, I'm just trying to understand the thought process behind it.

And now, simply because of this thread, if I EVER find one of your bugs, I'm not just adding fur, the fur itself is going to be purple.

9.4k · August 18, 2004

Sorry dude, but when I find just a bug with nothing else attached how am I supposed to know where it wants to go, even if it is just treveling around. People will not take bugs unless they know for sure what it's goal is. Therefore, put an informational sheet with it, it helps it.

That's when you bring it home with you at the end of your caching day. When you log it, you'll find out where it's going. Can't help it? Fine, just drop it off the next time you go caching. No problem.

Bugs without tags just need to move from cache to cache. If you pick one up while you're on vacation and end up moving it 3000 miles away from its destination so what? The bug's owner will be happy that it moved.

I've picked up many bugs that didn't have extra "goal sheets" or baggies. I've always added mileage to them. Sometimes it's in the right direction, sometimes not. I don't leave a bug in a cache just because it doesn't have a goal sheet.

22k · August 18, 2004

No, the problem is that people are looking for perfecton in others, blame the 'schmoes' for not meeting their expectations and then we have to listen to their self-indulgent diatribe of how much a burden everyone else is.

Let me know when there is something worth discussing. Flame off.

4.7k · August 19, 2004

no, the problem is people looking for perfection in others by not just hoping a bug travels to a place, but demanding that it does, thereby creating a culture where everybody has to get instructions for how to handle a honkin' TOY.

and if for some reason the person who sent the toy out just wants to let people play with it without instructions, that has now become an aberration.

d'ya remember when kids used to just go PLAY? now they have to play something with rules.

it's not really the bugsheets i'm against, and i'm CERTAINLY not against the kindness of others. what against is this frightening atitude that people should HAVE to check for a bug's goal before picking it up.

if it has one that the owner cares about enough to tag it, that's great. but i feel it is equally great to allow the elements of chance to sweep it into the current. that's the joy of it for me, and i don't want people to feel they have a duty to kill that pleasure.

imagine me teaching my grandkids about the fun of the unexpected and coincidence and then having the little tykes find out that it was all a setup.

i'm taking a rather extreme position on this to make the point: not all bug owners appreciate the trouble you take to add instructions. all i really want is for you to consider this and maybe ask the bug owner what would be appropriate. if you can take the time to print a card and attach a bag, you have the time to ask it this would be a welcome gesture.

if you're uncomforable not knowing where my bug wants to go, don't pick it up. maybe it just wants to know where you're going. if you NEED to know ahead of time, my bug isn't for you. there's no shame in that. some people do not enjoy randomness. i do. and i want to be able to enjoy it peaceably.

if you take my bug 3000 miles out of it's way, i promise not to be upset. after all, if i was going to get upset, i should have tagged it. if you put purple fur on it, i will enjoy that very heartily.

my dream bug is one that gets interesting logs. people carry it around for a while and play with it and then put it somewhere and maybe post a picture of it and tell me a little about the time they spent with the bug. little stuff is good, too, not just big things: where you went for lunch, what your kids said when they saw it, what the weather's like. i don't care if you move it quickly or how many times it gets moved or how far it goes.

i'm not alone in this. i really, REALLY want people to consider these as valid views, and not just freak occurances that deserve no consideration.

2.4k · August 19, 2004

People will not take bugs unless they know for sure what it's goal is. Therefore, put an informational sheet with it, it helps it.

Maybe you won't, but I will. No goal tag = fair game for where ever I head next. If that helps it GREAT, if it's the complete wrong direction...well, shoulda had a goal tag on it if you were that worried about it reaching it's goal.

2.1k · August 19, 2004

and if for some reason the person who sent the toy out just wants to let people play with it without instructions, that has now become an aberration.

Unless the people playing with it decided that part of their fun will be to add a goal sheet and a plastic bag...then *they're* the aberration...

Have your cake...and eat it too, my dear?

1.9k · August 19, 2004

People will not take bugs unless they know for sure what it's goal is. Therefore, put an informational sheet with it, it helps it.

Maybe you won't, but I will. No goal tag = fair game for where ever I head next. If that helps it GREAT, if it's the complete wrong direction...well, shoulda had a goal tag on it if you were that worried about it reaching it's goal.

dittos to that. exactly how i do it.

1.2k · August 19, 2004

We have found about 60 bugs, and many of them had no information tag, sheet or nothing. In some cases have there been more than one bug in the cache, we pick up one and brings it home, then it turns out that this bug was supposed to stay in that area. One recent example is a cacher from our hometown in Sweden (Europe) that went travelling to New York (USA). He found a cache with a bug in the cache, he took of course the bug with him to Sweden. When he had internetaccess again, did he discover the goal of that TB. It was just released and its goal was travelling from New York to California. Now is it in Sweden.

A simple note had prevented this from happening.

All bugs that we find and place in the TB hotel at Swedens second largest airport do we either place in a zip lock bag (and place a note in it with the bugs name and where it wants to go) or we just drop it without that information (if the TB has it itself in any way). This is to help the bugs get to the right place.

But we don't hunt down bugs to label them, but we do often make remarks in the log if the bug have been sent the wrong way. Like "If this bug had a note saying that it should stay in the area..."

August 19, 2004

So it goes to california va sweden no big deal. It did not say how it wanted to get there so around the world would probebly be ok.

2k · August 19, 2004

My question is why not check the goal of a bug BEFORE you even take it out of a cache?

On the cache page the bugs in the cache are listed. Check the mission before you go out to the cache.

I am leaning more towards flask on this one.

One reason is I was thinking about releasing a geocoin with no baggie just to see how it changes after sitting in caches in the elements over the winter. I shouldn't have to attach a note saying don't put this in a baggie.

I think there should be no modifications or sheets attached to bugs without the owners permission.

If you pick up a bug simply e-mail the owner of the bug first and ASK him if he wants his bug to have a sheet attached or if he wants it in a baggie.

Edited August 19, 2004 by Eric K

1.2k · August 19, 2004

Not everybody is carrying a laptop with wireless access

We went on a cache trip to the capitol of Sweden (Stockholm), and one day we went for a cache and there was two bugs in it that we didn't know about.

Of course do we grab them.. I can't recall right now if these two had information tags, but I think so...

We went also to the bug hotel at the airport and found 3-4 bugs, and NONE of them had information sheets, tags or similar. In at least one case were there no even a photo on the bugs page on GC.com, so it is difficult to know if you are picking the right bug.. (if you are looking in advance at the website!).

So, if you don't want your bug to end somewhere you didn't want to send it, place some kind of information together with the bug. It has also happened that the bug have been seperated from the TB tag, and if I find a toy animal with an information sheet, then I can find out which bug it was and contact the bug owner.

So... Please mark your bugs... That's our opinion.

1.2k · August 19, 2004

Add: Many times are you out hunting a whole day. You find a bug in one cache, and drops it off in an another cache, without knowing anything about the bug.

2k · August 19, 2004

Not everybody is carrying a laptop with wireless access

We went on a cache trip to the capitol of Sweden (Stockholm), and one day we went for a cache and there was two bugs in it that we didn't know about.

Of course do we grab them.. I can't recall right now if these two had information tags, but I think so...

We went also to the bug hotel at the airport and found 3-4 bugs, and NONE of them had information sheets, tags or similar. In at least one case were there no even a photo on the bugs page on GC.com, so it is difficult to know if you are picking the right bug.. (if you are looking in advance at the website!).

So, if you don't want your bug to end somewhere you didn't want to send it, place some kind of information together with the bug. It has also happened that the bug have been seperated from the TB tag, and if I find a toy animal with an information sheet, then I can find out which bug it was and contact the bug owner.

So... Please mark your bugs... That's our opinion.

If you go out and see a bug in a cache then why take it if you don't know what it's mission is? Why not just leave it in the cache?

2.5k · August 19, 2004

Well, if I take a bug and think that I'll be too far off the bug's goal, I'll just drop it in the cache I own in N'ville. It's big enough for bugs purposely, and I prefer to have as many bugs through there as visit and want to stay.

4.7k · August 19, 2004

if you pick it up and drop it in the same general area, you haven't helped or harmed its mission significantly.

if you pick up my bug and don't know where i want it to go, it's MY problem if i didn't tag it. maybe i get a perverse pleasure out of seeing how far off course it will go. i promise not to harrass you if you take it in the wrong direction.

if i want it to go to fiji and don't put a tag on it and you take it to sweden, it's all good to me. if i REALLY want it to go to fiji i will not only tag it, but i will engineer its journey, contacting cachers along the way to make sure it gets passed smoothly.

now THERE'S an idea.

i'm not telling what it is. you'll have to stay tuned.

1.2k · August 19, 2004

Erik, the goal of travellers are just to travel - not staying in caches.

August 19, 2004

when i see a sheet that says "only pick this up if you are willing to help it toward its goal" and the goal is "to travel randomly", i giggle in an unkind fashion and wonder how much of a commitment that's going to be. what's the point of the warning?

The key is to TRAVEL randomly. Picking the TB up and letting it sit on your desk for months is not helping it towards it's goal.

2k · August 19, 2004

Erik, the goal of travellers are just to travel - not staying in caches.

Not quite so. The goal may be to travel towards a specific goal or direction. What I am saying is check the goal on the cache page before you pick it up.

If you don't know what the goal is leave it in the cache for the next cacher that may know what the goal is and be able to help it to achieve it's goal.

My point is attachments are not required if a cacher first checks the bugs mission online before moving it.

1.2k · August 19, 2004

But in many cases are the cache page perhaps not updated when you leave your home. Perhaps are you on a trip and checked it two days ago....

2k · August 19, 2004

But in many cases are the cache page perhaps not updated when you leave your home. Perhaps are you on a trip and checked it two days ago....

I understand that. What I'm saying is if you don't know what the mission of the bug is then why take it all? Why not just leave it? Unless it's some super difficult 5/5 cache most likely another cacher will find the cache in the next several days and be able to move the bug towards it's goal.

2.6k · August 19, 2004

But in many cases are the cache page perhaps not updated when you leave your home. Perhaps are you on a trip and checked it two days ago....

Yeah, I was a while ago on a two and a half year trip in the Central Europe with my wife, and we visited several places, and 20 caches in five different countries and drove more than 3000 km on the way. The cache printouts were made 1-2 weeks before leaving for the trip.

I had only two chances to get online during that trip, both of which I used among other things to log the caches and TB I had found so far. The rest caches & TBs I logged when we finally got back home in Finland. My point is, there wasn't proper chances to check the goal on the cache page before you pick the TB up, so I just unashamedly took every TB with me, and if they didn't have the goal sheet with them (2 of four had), I just unashamedly moved them to some othe cache; brought couple even to Finland.

Now, I could've left those without goal sheet rotting in their caches because I didn't have an option to just go check their goals in their page. But I share the ideology that Travel Bugs should travel. So I made them travel.

2k · August 19, 2004

Divine and Hedberg:

My point is why do you feel you have to move the bugs? If you don't know what their mission is why not leave them for someone that will know what the mission is?

Like I said, unless it is some super difficult 5/5 cache more than likely within a week (or if it's a weekend that same day) another geocacher will be at the same cache.

Most caches, especially if they have bugs in them, will be visited at least once a week.

Why not just take the bugs that have goals and leave the ones that don't? They will be moved by someone.

By the way, thanks for keeping this a civil discussion and not turning it into name calling or personal attacks.

Edited August 19, 2004 by Eric K

2.6k · August 19, 2004

My point is why do you feel you have to move the bugs? If you don't know what their mission is why not leave them for someone that will know what the mission is?

That is a good question, and I have to admit I never thought about it from that angle before reading this thread. Like I said, I thought the TB ideology is to travel, so in those (after all quite rare) cases I've run into goal-sheetless TBs without seeing their pages beforehand, I've just decided to move them a bit further, often dropping them during the same trip to some nearby caches. Like someone else said in this thread, the possible harm done can't be very bad.

On second thought, regarding my story of my recent Central European trip, I just remembered I had checked the TB goals for those couple ones I brought in Finland with me, so I knew it'd be ok.

I have two TBs myself, and especially the first one has a big bunch of goals around the (western) world, but on the TB pages I try to assure it's ok to just move the bugs somewhere if it's not possible to help with the goal.

I may have to rethink my TB moving values now. Most bugs I've met are after all just wandering around without very specific goals, so picking a random TB up without knowing its goal usually doesn't lead into any catastrophes.

2.5k · August 19, 2004

Because moving a bug along generally helps it in some way, even if it's just going over to the next cache 528 feet away.

August 19, 2004

It was just released and its goal was travelling from New York to California. Now is it in Sweden. A simple note had prevented this from happening.

My very first Tbug's page states that I wanted it to stay within the immediate 5 state area from my home state- so I could maybe meet up again this fall.

But I wasnt to upset to see it travel to Aruba, then The Netherlands, then to Norway.

close to 9000 miles in its first year. I am Not upset by any means.

If I see a bug in a cache - I grab it. If i can, I help it. If not I just try to drop it again soon so others might be able to.

I dont like the idea of Rules sheets. We have enough rules. As long as it travels, Im all good.

1.2k · August 19, 2004

Divine and Hedberg:

My point is why do you feel you have to move the bugs? If you don't know what their mission is why not leave them for someone that will know what the mission is?

Like I said, unless it is some super difficult 5/5 cache more than likely within a week (or if it's a weekend that same day) another geocacher will be at the same cache.

Most caches, especially if they have bugs in them, will be visited at least once a week.

Why not just take the bugs that have goals and leave the ones that don't? They will be moved by someone.

By the way, thanks for keeping this a civil discussion and not turning it into name calling or personal attacks.

This might vary alot being different countries/states, but sometimes can I bug get stuck for several months over here. Sometimes it moves within 1 hour... You never know!

So, when we find a bug do we grab it to move it. We don't really like the idea of going out to caches just to open the lid and write down the numbers on every bug we see. We move them - because that is the purpose of travellers: travel.

Our opinion: If you mark your bug, then it is a better chance it will reach it goals..

If the goal of the bug is to travel around the world without any special requirements, feel free to write it on an attachments... The risk is otherwise that some Erik-type comes along and finds a bug he doesn't know about. It isn't mark, so he leaves it in the cache. So if all bugs were marked, could you easily see if the bug should be moved or not.

BTW, we are organizing a bugrace, and there were a couple of bugs located at the bughotel at our local airport. There were some logs where cachers didn't bring them to other countries since they were not going to South Africa (the goal of the bugs). There are no direct flights from Göteborg, Sweden to South Africa, so they must go via some other place, so I can't really understand why people didn't grab them?

And yes, people don't always read what are written, so sometimes does it feel like the bug sheet could be skipped.

I have seen a number of reports here on the forums about GeoCoins getting lost, might that have something to do with that they travel without any information what they are? Or perhaps they are just so dadgum beautiful so people keep them?

August 19, 2004

"if you can take the time to print a card and attach a bag, you have the time to ask it this would be a welcome gesture"

I like this statement. None of the 16 bugs I have let loose have tags, I did not wish them to have tags. 12 of them were very similar, based on the characters from Comedy Central's South Park. Now, because of someones blind gesture, and not knowing anything about the bugs, and without letting me know my WLG Eric Cartman bug is in Bavaria with a tag that says "WLG Ike Broflowski". If I had been informed of this I could have told this person not to attach the tag. I don't care if people alter my bugs, it's part of the adventure. Lack of notes gives me the sense that their travels are truely random, whether they make their goals or not. All of my 12 SP bugs were designed to be able to fit into a micro/35 mm canister to help them move, adding a log sheet, baggie, etc. only makes it bigger and less likely to fit. I for one am completely against travel bug goal sheets. It is contraindicative of what a tb is supposed to be. If you want your TB to go to Fiji, put it in a suitcase and buy a plane ticket!!!! Then you can be assured of it's attainment of it's goals.

Peace!

4.7k · August 20, 2004

<snip>
so picking a random TB up without knowing its goal usually doesn't lead into any catastrophes.

there AREN'T any TB catastrophes. there just aren't. the WORST thing that happens is a toy disappears. less "tragic" is when a TB tha't in a race goes the other way, but this stuff happens. it's part of the game.

and if you're fussy about where it goes, it SHOULD have a tag. you SHOULD tell people what you want if you need them to know.

i'm fussy about the concept of randomness. i'm a big entropy fan. i LOVE to pick up a TB that i don't know where it goes. i get it home and race upstairs to find out.

here are five things that have actually happened:

1- i note that it has no particular goal and i drop it anywhere i like. usually somewhere interesting. sometimes i take it someplace and take pictures with it.

2- i see that i have taken it in a direction it wants to go. i am pleased to have helped.

3- i have taken it out of its way, but then by some odd coincidence i place it somewhere that somebody who was going there very soon picked it up, so in essence i had helped the little bugger by taking it off course.

4- i notice where it's going and drive it there myself. interestingly, the owner found this last one to be kind of antclimactic, nevermind that i drove over a hundred miles to do it.

5- i've very carefully moved it toward where it was going only to have it moved somewhere else.

if you don't like the lack of bugsheet there's no reason you have to pick it up. i often pass over ones with bugsheets in favor of more interesting bugs. i wouldn't for a moment suggest that other people should not use bug sheets; i certainly wouldn't remove one that somebody had put there on purpose.

there are a lot of people who get REALLY upset if their bug isn't moved "correctly". those people probably need bugsheets. and when i see something from someone who got upset about a bug they didn't tag that got moved against the "mission", i think they ought to have tagged it.

as we all know, the tag-and-bag practice is not the greatest blight on geocaching. the greatest blight on geocaching is the use of the word "muggle".

August 20, 2004

I just released my first TB, and I've never found one, so I don't speak from experience. My TB has no specific goal, and I really don't care where he goes.

What I hope will happen is that people will take the time to write a bit of a log for him and maybe snap a goofy photo. I'd rather him move three times in a year and get some great logs and photos than have him go 100,000 miles with logs that say "dropped him in X cache."

After all, I thought the whole point of TBs was that they "picked up stories."

Of course, I suspect he'll be stuck in the cache he's in now for 1-2 years before being picked up... Hope he isn't lonely. Hope to find my first TB this weekend -- one popped up in my area.

2.6k · August 20, 2004

Of course, I suspect he'll be stuck in the cache he's in now for 1-2 years before being picked up... Hope he isn't lonely.

Now you have what I would call a challenging caching territory.

2.6k · August 20, 2004

Wow, Gonzo, I was just amusing myself following your caching. There were some great pictures in people's logs (take more!).

I particularly liked that last cache, because the map was just a big beige square with "Yukon Territory" on it and a pushpin icon.

August 20, 2004

I dont know if I should lmao at this thread or cry. You get ticked off because its a toy for fun. But yet are getting so worked up over people tagging the goal sheet to your bug so others know of it if they happen upon it. Next you say I can attach fur and paint it purple if I want but I cant attach paper with words on it. So I can totally deface your toy destroy it and you are happy, but put on a piece of paper to HELP others know what they came across you get bent out of shape.

2.1k · August 20, 2004

there AREN'T any TB catastrophes. there just aren't. the WORST thing that happens is a toy disappears.

Yes, but why aren't you trying to convince yourself of that yet?

If your item gets goal-tagged by someone (and you didn't put a comment on the TB page asking that it not be tagged), then post a note to the cache it was next placed at and ask the next finder to remove the tag.

4.7k · August 20, 2004

would it help if i added THESE tags?

</tongue>

no, no, no. the disater isn't the tags being added. the disaster is when people feel it's their duty to make sure they have tags. it just goes back to the "can we please have more rules" debate.

i'm perfectly capable of asking people to remove these things for me. the unfortunate thing is that people will go to a lot of trouble to do this thing and i'll aks for it to be undone.

the reason i keep harping on this is that i'd prefer for the prevalent view to be that it would be polite to ask first. it's all about ed-yoo-kay-shun. unless somebody speaks up and keeps speaking up, people will blithely continue to add these things and to congratulate themselves for doing it.

if just ONE person thinks twice before altering a bug in this way and sends a little note before doing so, i will have done my job.

in the meantime, i get to rant about something that's much less important than, say, world politics and even bicycle races or what's for dinner, and since the great "muggle" debate died down i have to get my giggles somehow.

i will happily revive the "muggle" discussion instead if you like.

August 20, 2004

If its all about asking the owner then why say its fine to alter your tb in the first place? I personally will not wany ANY of my tbs that I am about to release to be altered. Adding a tag because mine fell off, or I didnt include one doesnt affect the toy, unless of course they had to drill a hole through it. As for them going "out of their way" to put a tag because your tb didnt have one. I don't think it was really out of their way, if it was they probably would have not done it. I dont think I ever read a log --- "I picked up tb and it had no tag so I painstakinly had to look up the bug, copy the text over to word resize the fonts small enough then use my own ink and paper to print it out, then had to drive to Kinkos to get it lamenated then go toSears and byuy a drill press to add this tag."

They did it because they felt it would Help others know what it was they found and what the mission of it was for. Some cachers AND MUGGLES may come across your cute little toy and say aww how cute a fuzzy bunny stuffed animal. Eww whats the metal tag, (rip) there thats better. i think I will keep it and hug it and name him George. The tag isnt adding any more rules that you didnt set up on the TBs page. (Or atleast shouldn't be). If your bug is set out to travel freely, then someone shouldnt be attaching a sheet with "move me freely but only on thursdays of a full moon if it s a leap year and the day number is even."

4.7k · August 20, 2004

what? even *I* don't get the point of that.

it's kind of like a bumpresticker i saw this weekend:

"when all the trees are gone, you can wipe your @!! with a snowy owl".

the problem with this is that the meaning is unclear; when the trees are gone, so will the snowy owls be gone. is it a cautionary tale, or does the speaker want to use the owl as toilet paper? does he want all the trees to disappear? when the trees are gone, the logging jobs will be gone too, so i'm not sure why this is a good idea for anybody on either side of the debate.

maybe he's trying to tell us that if all the owls were gone it would be easier to make toilet paper, or that if the owls are preserved there wil be a great toilet paper shortage. in any case, i don't think it's effective communication.

there isn't really that much of a parallel between that and the post i don't fuly understan, but i'm a stream of consciousness kind of person.

2.1k · August 20, 2004

the reason i keep harping on this is that i'd prefer for the prevalent view to be that it would be polite to ask first. it's all about ed-yoo-kay-shun. unless somebody speaks up and keeps speaking up, people will blithely continue to add these things and to congratulate themselves for doing it.

Maybe you're just being too pessimistic about it. Think about it this way, someone gets to sit down with their kid and show them how they do something nice for someone by helping them keep the bug save in a bag and tag it so it can be moved even better than before. They go away with the greatest of feelings because they bettered your bug AND taught their kid how to leave things in a better condition than they found it (score two happy feelings for adding a tag to your TB). You are mad, because they added a tag you didn't want (score one bad feeling). You ask someone else to "rescue" your TB from its current tagged state and someone swoops in to destroy the evil tag and save the day (score one good feeling for them being a TB hero to you and one good feeling for you knowing that your TB is back out there un-tagged). Net result: 4 happy with a temporary bad! It's a win-win! :unsure:

i will happily revive the "muggle" discussion instead if you like.

I'll start a new "Let's make a leaderboard and require it to be opt-out" thread for you if you feel the need to get geared up on one of your good rants.

4.7k · August 21, 2004

yes! i LOVE that rant! if ony i could combine it with my best rant on world politics, i'd be a happy person, and i wouldn't need so much medication.

p.s. i already have false stats. if you look at my profile, my numbers are NEVER accurate. i don't log all of my finds. so in essence, i already do what i threatened to do.

Edited August 21, 2004 by flask

August 21, 2004

Hmmm. I have two TBs out without travel orders or bags. If I had known about travel orders I would have added them and bagged the little guys myself.

Should anyone find "Cache Viking" or "Viking Escape" please bag'em and tag-em. thanks

Stop It!

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