Jump to content

Tip Around Poison Ivy, Oak, Sumac


Red Iguana

Recommended Posts

After a w/e of caching in areas heavily infested with poison oak, I took my usual precautions, and thought that I would share this tip that I picked up from a hiking guidebook, on what to do if you come in contact.

Since the rash is caused by the oils from the plant, and you have six to eight hours before the oil starts working its magic on you, try a shower or washup with Dawn dish soap. Cannot say with certainty this works, but the author is reputable, and I have not had a breakout since starting this precaution.

NOTE: Please do not taint the waters in the field!

Red Iguana

Link to comment

I've heard various estimates of the amount of time you have before the oils are absorbed - anywhere from an hour on up. If I know that I'll be tromping around in the woods where PO might be encountered, I bring a package of baby wipes along in the car. If I wipe exposed skin as soon as I get back to the car then wash with soap and water when I get home I've never had a problem.

 

Also remember to wash your clothes. The oils can linger on the fabric and transfer to your skin.

Link to comment
I've heard various estimates of the amount of time you have before the oils are absorbed - anywhere from an hour on up.

 

It depends on how allergic you are and how much urushoil you have on your skin. But washing thoroughly as soon as possible with cool water and lots of soap does help. Dish soap is even better because it breaks down the oils. There is also a product called Technu poison ivy wash that claims to be effective if used soon after contact. I'd say 8 hours, before washing is really pushing it though because highly allergic people have shown rashes as soon as a few hours after exposure.

 

That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this, because I suspect that this has as much validity as Avon Skin-So-Soft being an effective insect repellent.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment
Is it possible to build imunity to Poisen Ivy? It seems like I'm coming in contact with it more this year than last year but I've only had very mild to no flare ups.

Its possible to build an immunity, just as its possible for people who have been immune to suddenly become allergic. I was immune until I was in my early 30s, then I got a few bad cases. Now I can walk through a patch of it and I may get a few small, itchy bumps, but no major breakouts. Not sure if its because I wash as soon as I get home, or I'm just not that sensitive anymore.

Link to comment
Is it possible to build imunity to Poisen Ivy? It seems like I'm coming in contact with it more this year than last year but I've only had very mild to no flare ups.

Its possible to build an immunity, just as its possible for people who have been immune to suddenly become allergic. I was immune until I was in my early 30s, then I got a few bad cases. Now I can walk through a patch of it and I may get a few small, itchy bumps, but no major breakouts. Not sure if its because I wash as soon as I get home, or I'm just not that sensitive anymore.

That's as bad as it's gotten for me this year. A few ichy bumps no more annoying than a mosquito bite.

Edited by JMBella
Link to comment
That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this, because I suspect that this has as much validity as Avon Skin-So-Soft being an effective insect repellent.

Well, you're talking to a former Avon Lady here, and I can tell you first hand that I used that stuff for YEARS and it has about a dozen uses outside of being a bath oil. INCLUDING bug repelant.

Link to comment
That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this, because I suspect that this has as much validity as Avon Skin-So-Soft being an effective insect repellent.

Well, you're talking to a former Avon Lady here, and I can tell you first hand that I used that stuff for YEARS and it has about a dozen uses outside of being a bath oil. INCLUDING bug repelant.

So some people say, but it's never been scientifically proven and in fact has been scientifically disproven.

Link to comment

When I started this crazy obsession called geocaching earlier this month I Googled "poison ivy" because of all of the likely exposure while hunting. I was fairly discouraged by what I found. First, the variety of plants is discouraging, making identification hard. Second, this website (http://poisonivy.aesir.com/) claims that you may have as little as 30 minutes to get the oil off of you. Third, wearing pants and sleeves can protect you but only in so far as you are careful when taking them off since the oil can remain on the fabric. Yikes! For more information there is another website (http://www.poison-ivy.org/) which even has ID cards and slide presentations, and for the really inquisitive--pictures of horrendous breakouts. I'm ready to try anything and/or everything to avoid that kind of breakout. :P

Good luck,

Bobbyfrass

Link to comment

Ironically, while I was camping on a geocaching trip/contest, an allergist on the radio mentioned sensitivity fluctuates.

 

So yes, you can be less affected as well as more but can't predict which way it might go.

 

Considering issues are directly related to amount of oil contact, things like how much water the plants get, their environment, your conditions (clothing, perspiration, oils in skin, etc) all are more likely to affect your exposure than personal sensitivity.

 

(Thinking to a few years I played paintball and never contracted PI despite belly-crawling through it--full clothing.)

 

I personally witnessed Avon Skin-So-Soft failing a scientific study. Deet, however, definately works.

 

However, if you put a group of folks together, the one emmitting more CO2 attracts more skeeters--if that happens to be a Skin-so-soft wearer, the myth gets reinforced.

 

Considering deet also discourages ticks--I leave it to you to make your own disease exposure risk determination...

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

 

PS: I'd also feel irresponsible not pointing out that anti-bacterial sanitizers expose you to greater bad bacterial exposure as you eliminate the safe/good bacteria that was defending you in the first place!

Link to comment
That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this . . .

I agree. It's an oil and from what I've read requires soap (or something that breaks down the oil) to remove it.

Link to comment
That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this . . .

I agree. It's an oil and from what I've read requires soap (or something that breaks down the oil) to remove it.

I am not a chemist, but is it possible that the “sanitizers” neutralize the irritants in the oils?

 

I have been saying all summer long that I do not know if it is luck, or the sanitizer that I have been using after getting back in the car, but I have not had any reaction to PI this summer. I know I have been in it, but maybe just not getting the oil on my skin.

Link to comment
I'd also feel irresponsible not pointing out that anti-bacterial sanitizers expose you to greater bad bacterial exposure as you eliminate the safe/good bacteria that was defending you in the first place!

Thank you for saying that, Randy. People nowadays are germaphobic to the extreme and don't realize that many "germs" are actually GOOD! My family avoids "sanitizers" and "antibacterial" soaps/wipes like the plague (ha ha!). Your skin is COVERED with "zillions" of natural bacteria that are a first line of defense to protect you from the REALLY nasty stuff. Don't kill them off, let your body do its job!

--laurak

Link to comment

That hand sanitizer contains alcohol. Alcohol dissolves fats and oils, i.e. it also dissolves the urushiol oil. It can probably be effective in removing that oil, provided that you wipe it off with a tissue. If you don't wipe it off but let it dry, the oil will stay there, spread around on your skin.

Link to comment

It is also possible to assist your body in building up an immunity to PI. I did this as a kid at wildlife camp one summer. We started by eating a new bud of PI and continued each week eating successively larger buds, then leaves, until finally consuming a fully mature leaf. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS. However, it worked perfectly for me, I have not had PI since that time.

 

After telling this story years ago to my BiL, who is a GP, he told me that they now have available a prescription based extract course that does the same thing. Obviously, this is a better way to go since the process is controlled by a doctor and you aren't standing out in the woods eating stuff with a worried look on you face.

Link to comment
That hand sanitizer contains alcohol. Alcohol dissolves fats and oils, i.e. it also dissolves the urushiol oil. It can probably be effective in removing that oil, provided that you wipe it off with a tissue. If you don't wipe it off but let it dry, the oil will stay there, spread around on your skin.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert on this, but everyting I've read says not to rub/wipe the poison ivy oil (Urushiol) with anything as this spreads the oil around. The oil must be removed with some kind of agent. As for using alcohol here's an article that says:

 

"oil is soluble in neither water nor alcohol."

 

http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/propofwater.htm

Link to comment
The oil must be removed with some kind of agent. As for using alcohol here's an article that says:

 

"oil is soluble in neither water nor alcohol."

 

http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/propofwater.htm

This article specifically speaks about rubbing alcohol and vegetable oil (used for cooking). The statement is generally not true. In fact, the opposite is true: alcohols generally dissolve fats and oils. Specifically, rubbing alcohol DOES dissolve urushiol oil and removing the urushiol oil with alcohol is often recommended, see e.g. at http://jaxmed.com/articles/Diseases/poison..._dermatitis.htm

 

I don't know how effective the hand sanitizer is for this purpose, but I'm positive that if you apply generous amounts of alcohol-containing hand-sanitizer and you wipe it off immediately (instead of letting it to dry) then you will certainly remove a lot more than if you just don't do anything. And since the hand sanitizer is a gel, you will not spread around the oil too much even if you can't remove it completely.

Link to comment

As for myself , I use knee high gaiters while caching or hiking , so that if walking through PI then it gets on the gaiters and not on clothing next to the skin and , I can take them to a stream after a hard day of thrashing and caching, and give them a thorough cleaning and start fresh in the morning. But if I get into a place that has PI without protective clothing I am usually close to Touch-me Not and use it to cleanse the affected areas. For me it never fails to work. I also have the extract in the fridge at the palace if I should need it. But the best medicine I feel is as others have mentioned . Take a cool shower, with lots of soap, when ya get home.

Link to comment
It is also possible to assist your body in building up an immunity to PI.  I did this as a kid at wildlife camp one summer.  We started by eating a new bud of PI and continued each week eating successively larger buds, then leaves, until finally consuming a fully mature leaf.  I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS.  However, it worked perfectly for me, I have not had PI since that time.

 

After telling this story years ago to my BiL, who is a GP, he told me that they now have available a prescription based extract course that does the same thing.  Obviously, this is a better way to go since the process is controlled by a doctor and you aren't standing out in the woods eating stuff with a worried look on you face.

Can't believe you are trying to futher this "OLD WIVE"S TALE".

 

Extremely dangerous, more cruel than a snipe hunt, dumber than "if you put salt on a bird's tail you can catch it"

 

THIS IS RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH POISON IVY.

 

Can't believe the moderator allowed this to remain. :blink:

 

Just finished my first case of poison ivy and can't possibly imagine the horror of having that creeping plague inside my body as well.

 

Golfguy55

Edited by Golfguy55
Link to comment
The oil must be removed with some kind of agent.  As for using alcohol here's an article that says:

 

"oil is soluble in neither water nor alcohol."

 

http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/propofwater.htm

This article specifically speaks about rubbing alcohol and vegetable oil (used for cooking). The statement is generally not true. In fact, the opposite is true: alcohols generally dissolve fats and oils. Specifically, rubbing alcohol DOES dissolve urushiol oil and removing the urushiol oil with alcohol is often recommended, see e.g. at http://jaxmed.com/articles/Diseases/poison..._dermatitis.htm

I think what we've shown is that there's a lot of conflicting information about poison ivy on the web. The link I referenced came from a website totally dedicated to the topic of poison ivy. They were saying you shouldn’t use alcohol as a wipe. It would be effective as a bath (like if you bathed your hand/arm in it) but you shouldn’t wipe with it, and they gave this link to explain why. There are so many poison ivy webpages I can’t find the one it came from now but the domain name contained the words poison ivy.

 

For the record, I just filled a small jar half full of denatured alcohol and added some household oil (lubricating oil – not vegetable oil). The oil did not mix. It went immediately to the bottom forming balls of oil just like the article said it would. I shook the mixture and, just as the article said, the larger balls broke up into tiny balls, but the oil did not dissolve in the alcohol.

 

If you doubt this, try it for yourself.

Edited by Thot
Link to comment

I've heard of a few "cures" for the poison plants, one was scratch open the blisters and pour bleach on it to stop the itching and dry up the infected area, which personally I thought was stupid but, I know a number of people who swear by it.

 

My own favorite is showering with Fels Naptha laundry soap, it removes the oil, then cover any infected area with caladryl (calamine) lotion. Finally since the reaction is due to an alergy I'll take Benadryl for a couple of days to a week depending how bad I got infected. The Benadryl is key because it helps control the symptoms of the allergic reaction.

Link to comment

Thot,

 

Your experiment is not necessarily relevant. It all depends on what type of alcohol is used in what concentration and what type of oil is in question.

 

The website I linked is a medical web site and it specificially says that urushiol oil is soluble in rubbing (i.e. isopropyl) alcohol. In fact it says that washing the skin with rubbing alcohol is the best way to remove the oil. It also says: "If exposed, wipe the affected area as quickly as possible with alcohol or an alcohol-containing beverage. Some people even carry a container of rubbing alcohol with them to wipe off their skin whenever they run the risk of exposure to the plants. As above, washing with soap and cold water as soon as possible can be helpful."

 

I just looked at a bottle of hand sanitizer. Its active ingredient is 62% ethyl alcohol. It also contains a number of other ingredients, including glycerin, isopropyl myristate, propylene glycol and aminomethyl propanol (the latter two are alcohols). Chances are that this mixture dissolves urushiol oil or at least forces it into a dispersion it which is then easy to wipe off. Certainly not the best solution but probably better than nothing.

Link to comment
Your experiment is not necessarily relevant. It all depends on what type of alcohol is used in what concentration and what type of oil is in question.

I think you're mistaken.

 

The website I linked is a medical web site and it specificially says that urushiol oil is soluble in rubbing (i.e. isopropyl) alcohol.

The article I referenced used isopropyl alcohol. I used ethyl (denatured) alcohol in my experiment. Just for you I repeated my experiment using isopropyl alcohol – same result. So, we now have two kinds of oil that won’t dissolve in either kind of alcohol.

 

I just looked at a bottle of hand sanitizer. Its active ingredient is 62% ethyl alcohol.

According to your reference this is the wrong kind of alcohol. To be clear, I think either type of alcohol would have the same effect. It was your conjecture that one of the two types might not dissolve the oil and your reference specifies isopropyl alcohol while the wipes contain ethyl alcohol.

 

Essentially all authorities agree you should avoid smearing the urushiol oil around or you will make the problem worse. My point all along has been that without a trustworthy authority saying people should use hand sanitizers on poison ivy oil, it may not be a good idea.

 

With this post I withdraw.

Link to comment
I think you're mistaken.

 

No, I'm not. What I said is a basic fact of organic chemistry.

 

Just for you I repeated my experiment using isopropyl alcohol – same result.  So, we now have two kinds of oil that won’t dissolve in either kind of alcohol.

 

Like I said, your experiment is irrelevant. You didn't use urushiol oil for your experiment.

 

According to your reference this is the wrong kind of alcohol.

 

Nope. The article doesn't say anything about any "wrong kind" of alcohol. What's more, it also recommends using alcoholic beverages to wipe of the oil. As you know, those contain ethyl alcohol.

 

Essentially all authorities agree you should avoid smearing the urushiol oil around or you will make the problem worse.

 

That is self-evident.

 

My point all along has been that without a trustworthy authority saying people should use hand sanitizers on poison ivy oil, it may not be a good idea.

 

Anything that helps remove the oil is better than no action. The hand sanitizer definitely helps. Nobody suggested that you should smear around the hand sanitizer over your entire body. Pour it over the affected spot and wipe it off. This is of course no replacement for dedicated poison ivy oil removing cleansers such as Tecnu. But since many people carry hand sanitizer anyway, it may be the best agent from the stuff that you happen to have in your backpack.

Edited by as77
Link to comment
It is also possible to assist your body in building up an immunity to PI.  I did this as a kid at wildlife camp one summer.  We started by eating a new bud of PI and continued each week eating successively larger buds, then leaves, until finally consuming a fully mature leaf.  I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS.  However, it worked perfectly for me, I have not had PI since that time.

 

After telling this story years ago to my BiL, who is a GP, he told me that they now have available a prescription based extract course that does the same thing.  Obviously, this is a better way to go since the process is controlled by a doctor and you aren't standing out in the woods eating stuff with a worried look on you face.

Can't believe you are trying to futher this "OLD WIVE"S TALE".

 

Extremely dangerous, more cruel than a snipe hunt, dumber than "if you put salt on a bird's tail you can catch it"

 

THIS IS RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH POISON IVY.

 

Can't believe the moderator allowed this to remain. :blink:

 

Just finished my first case of poison ivy and can't possibly imagine the horror of having that creeping plague inside my body as well.

 

Golfguy55

I'm sorry you had a bad case of PI Golfguy.

 

I was simply sharing my own personal experience to provide background for what is now a common homeopathic prevention treatment - that has been successful for many people. I specifically said that I was not recommending working with actual leaves but that new extract alternatives are now available.

 

Here are links to several of them:

Oral Ivy

Rush Tox

 

It would seem that PI extract treatments remain debatable in their effectiveness for various people. Some have clearly had success, as I did. However, I can conclude that they are not a health hazard.

 

As alluded to in my OP, if you have a GP who is open to alternative treatments, I suggest you discuss it with him and try a course of extract under his supervision to see if it can work for you.

 

As an aside, here is some very practical info from the FDA regarding PI treatments, which also confirms the ability of urushiol to remain potent for years.

... and "no" the FDA does not endorse PI extract treatments.

FDA Info

 

(edited to add missing link)

Edited by 5nomads
Link to comment
There is also a product called Technu poison ivy wash that claims to be effective if used soon after contact. I'd say 8 hours, before washing is really pushing it though because highly allergic people have shown rashes as soon as a few hours after exposure.

 

 

Yes yes yes

 

There is a reason that this stuff is standard issue in all phone company equipment lockers - because it works.

 

You can also use it as a laundry additive for effected clothing.

 

The quicker you get it off of you, the better. Some people have a longer "window", but still the quicker the better.

 

One last tip - wash your dog. Nothing worse than letting rover run through it, then come in the house and spread the oil all over the place and then have the youngster hug his oil laden fur. :blink:

Edited by Phonedave
Link to comment
Is it possible to build imunity to Poisen Ivy? It seems like I'm coming in contact with it more this year than last year but I've only had very mild to no flare ups.

Its possible to build an immunity, just as its possible for people who have been immune to suddenly become allergic. I was immune until I was in my early 30s, then I got a few bad cases. Now I can walk through a patch of it and I may get a few small, itchy bumps, but no major breakouts. Not sure if its because I wash as soon as I get home, or I'm just not that sensitive anymore.

much to my dismay, i recently read that you become more vulnerable the more you're exposed...why i really hate pi caches... :lol:

Link to comment

I read these posts as I sit treating my almost healed arms. Three weeks now. First time I have ever had a reaction. I usually pull the poison oak up by hand around my caches so that others won't be bothered. This time I cut myself on some branches and the poison oak got into my system that way. Well, the only thing I had in the car was hand sanitizer and I used that. Bad mistake. The stuff just made it so bad. Usually I have Napa hand cleaner that removes oil when you work on cars? I learned to use that on wildfires where we treat a lot of PO. But my husband had cleaned out the car and the hand sanitizer was worse than doing nothing.

 

I had one old timer tell me to boil the bark of a madrone tree but mostly after the rash gets to where you can't stand it any more, putting heat on it will drive you crazy for about 1 minute and then give you 4 hours of relief.

Link to comment
That Instant Hand Sanitizer stuff you can buy just about anywhere supposedly works wonders.

 

I've heard this, but it doesn't make sense. The hand sanitizer doesn't remove dirt, oil, etc... from your skin, it just kills germs. I would think that rubbing it with hand sanitizer would only spread the urushoil around. I'm gonna have to do a little research on this, because I suspect that this has as much validity as Avon Skin-So-Soft being an effective insect repellent.

Well, you're talking to a former Avon Lady here, and I can tell you first hand that I used that stuff for YEARS and it has about a dozen uses outside of being a bath oil. INCLUDING bug repelant.

So some people say, but it's never been scientifically proven and in fact has been scientifically disproven.

It's also been scientifically disproven that bumble bees, humming birds and helicopters can fly.

Edited by village-idiot
Link to comment

I have become so familiar with poison oak that I have a subconsious poison oak alarm, and I am able to avoid most if it in my travels.

 

However, I still get low level rashes all summer long- why? Because I pet my dogs! They are constantly rummaging through the brush while I stay on trail, so usually have some residual urushiols on their coats.

 

I try to wash my hands as much as possible after petting them, but sometimes forget. In the spring we really try to utilize "socked foot petting" to show our affection, so much so that our dogs start nosing our feet for a pet instead of our hands.

 

So if you have a dog that you don't bathe after every hike in PO land, beware! Bowser can carry it around for weeks.

Link to comment
It's also been scientifically disproven that bumble bees, humming birds and helicopters can fly.

Sorry, the Skin-So-Soft studies are true. I've seen several and they all show that the stuff is not an effective insect repellent. I've yet to see one conducted using sound experimental practices that proves the stuff works.

 

As for PI, I've heard many stories about using the hand sanitizers to treat the rash after the fact but not to remove the oils. My only first hand experience leads me to believe that the sanitizer helps dilute the oil to lessen the effect but doesn't remove it. To get it off the skin, you need something that can dissolve the oil, such as dishwashing detergent or a degreaser.

Link to comment
For the record, I just filled a small jar half full of denatured alcohol and added some household oil (lubricating oil – not vegetable oil). The oil did not mix. It went immediately to the bottom forming balls of oil just like the article said it would. I shook the mixture and, just as the article said, the larger balls broke up into tiny balls, but the oil did not dissolve in the alcohol.

 

If you doubt this, try it for yourself.

 

What you say above it all true--In fact, I have done this with students in the past to show that oil and water do not mix. However, the sap from PI and even more specifically the urishol in the sap is not an "oil" like a cooking oil.

 

Urishol is a a mixture of catechols (1,2-dihydroxybenzenes) and resorcinols (1,3-dihydroxybenzenes). A fancy bit of information to say that it is a sterol rather than a fat--a form of alcohol that contains a hydroxyl group (OH).

Since urishol has the oxygen and hydrogen in it, it will mix (or "bind") to either water or alcohol.

That is also the reason that it soaks into the skin so easily. So in short, wiping off with anything (water, sanitizers, baby wipes, alcohol) after exposure to PI is a good idea. The sooner the better---Just beware not to scrub too vigorously, which also removes natural skins oils that may help to prevent some resinous saps from entering the skin.

Link to comment

Hi All....I'm a newbie, I've only completed 5 caches...but have already subjected myself to poison ivy..... :blink: , but this is sooooo much fun, I will print out photos of the leaves and take them with me from now on. As soon as my itchy legs clear up, I off for my next find (with pants this time, not shorts) and photos in my hand. The suffering is well worth the fun that I have trapsing through the woods every weekend! Now I've heard that if you take a low dose of prednisone, it will clear up a case of PI very fast.....any comments? My dad uses that prescription, and I was wondering if I should ask him for a few tablets...

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...