Media Exposure

[+canadazuuk]

Looking for a broad based response regarding geocaching and media exposure.

 

It would be preferable to see many replies from many areas, and not just replies from those in BC who were either 'for' or 'against' media exposure on a recent secret topic at the BCGA website.

 

Media exposure: Is it good, or bad? And more importantly, why?

[+RobertM]

It's bad, VERY BAD. It's in fact a dumb idea to promote media exposure. It looks like you want the authorities (parks boards, etc.) to find out about our little hobby. People find out about it okay on their own.

[+canadazuuk]

Are you suggesting we just try to keep it a secret until they do find out, and just say 'no thanks, take your hobby elsewhere'?

[+RobertM]

People find out about it on their own, there's no need to "promote" it. We don't need/want any more cache rogues, and the like.

 

Why do you think the BCGA withdrew the offer to the media for the upcoming event? Because the majority of the members do not want it. Seems you do and are now stirring it up in here. There's only 2 people who are pro-media, you and "someone else" in my neighbourhood.

Edited August 17, 2004 by RobertM

[+canadazuuk]

I'm curious to know how it was that you heard about geocaching? It wasn't on TV by chance was it?

[+Keith Watson]

I learned about it from TV, and glad I did.

[+Gonzo-YT]

For those of us who aren't in the know about this issue, maybe you can provide some background. I'm in public relations, I might be able to give you some free advice.

Edited August 17, 2004 by Gonzo-YT

[+Gorak]

For those of us who aren't in the know about this issue, maybe you can provide some background. I'm in public relations, I might be able to give you some free advice.

Background:

• The BC Geocaching Association organized a Novice Night cache event.
  
• Either someone invited the media or the media invited themselves - this is not clear as the people at the centre of the issue are not saying.
  
• Huge backlash from experienced cachers who had volunteered to help out with the event. They did not want media present for several various reasons.
  
• Several forum discussions on the media and caching take place on the BCGA and The Sandbox forums. Most of it is non-supportive of media coverage of caching.
  
• BCGA executives stated that they voted and agreed that media coverage would not be appropriate for the event.
  
• BCGA executive requested the person at the centre of the issue to ask the media not to cover the event.
  
• Person at centre of issue asks media not to attend, but posts note on forum that the media 'might' attend uninvited anyway.
  
• Some of the volunteers state that they will not attend and help out at the event if the media is present.
  
• Forum discussions on the topic go quiet for several days.
  
• Canadazuuk comes out of forum exile to resurrect the topic.
  

[+Rogue_monkey]

well I found out about geocaching from a tv show. like keith i'm glad I did or i don't think i'd be here doing this.

 

as for am i pro media or against it. media coverage can either be good or bad. it will either promote our hobby for good or for bad. it will prodivide others an insite to this and others will join. while others will destroy caches. It may help up us with parks and state lands or it may not.

 

media coverage of our hobby will happen no matter what we do. We must make sure that it is for the good and promotes us.

 

 

 

Use what you have to your advantage

[GawnFishin]

I was introduced to Geocaching through the TV and I'm totally glad to have found out about it. The problem isn't the method of promotion it's the people, those who willingly destroy caches are a royal PITA to everyone not just cachers! Or are we attempting to make this an exclusive activity? Healthy promotion with an active agenda of approaching governments openly and actively seeking cooperation with land managers such as Parks departments, I feel it can only be a good thing not to mention programs like CITO can only go to high lite our activity as being environmentally friendly.

 

I agree you have to make the best with what you've got, though I think we need to get more coverage and be prepared to do the hard work to show that our activity is indeed healthy, otherwise I might as well take off the geocaching.com stickers I've now got on my car. You know...don't want anyone else to find out what I'm doing...

 

dadgum I knew that guy who asked me about geocaching was going to destroy every cache he could find, I just couldn't help myself...I had to talk...

[+Algonquin Bound]

Like Rogue Monkey, I suspect that media will cover the hobby, whether we like it or not. My preference? I think that Geocaching is already becoming diluted with too many cachers and too many bad caches, i.e. caches clearly placed only to increase numbers, since there is no reason to take someone to the area and no challenge.

 

I'd love it if we could all keep it as "our little secret", but that is obviously not realistic. Yes, I found out about it on TV and yes, I am being selfish, but I kinda wish we could put a lid on it now.

 

With some background in writing, I have often considered writing articles promoting geocaching, but the truth is that I don't want to promote it. This is really crazy, because if I don't write it, someone else will. Maybe I will still do it, but my heart is still torn. Who knows?

[+geoSquid]

I'm curious to know how it was that you heard about geocaching? It wasn't on TV by chance was it?

Read a newspaper article about it. Didn't try it for years, until I got bored this spring with playing computer games and decided I needed to do something outside.

[+res2100]

And why are these certain people against media exposure? I think there are thousands of people that would be very interested in our hobby, but they just don't know about it. Anyone that I have talked to and told about it, have always been excited, and I have received very positive feedback from a recent newpaper article that we were featured in, including some new geocachers as a result of it, and even people asking me to take them out geocaching.

 

I found out about geocaching by accident as I was look up information on hiking on the Bruce Trail..I wish I had known about it a lot sooner though.

 

So the event was a "Novice Night"...isn't that all about introducing new people to our hobby and educating them on it? Has the event happened yet, and if so was the media kept away?

 

I think the important thing is how the media protrays geocaching and that they portray it accurately.

[+Gonzo-YT]

Thanks Gorak, for the background.

 

For my $.02, here is how I would advise the BCGA.

 

First off, whether the members support it or not, if the media are interested in geocaching they will cover it. That point isn't optional.

 

What the BCGA need to decide is if that story gets written with or without their input.

 

By refusing to speak to the media, they run the risk that the reporter will write a story using less informed sources. Instead of quoting experienced cachers and representatives of the BCGA, they may quote the guy in the newsroom's buddy who has done three caches, or the newbie they collared in the parking lot since you wouldn't let them attend the event. Maybe this is the headline of the story:

 

High-tech treasure hunt: Geocachers use GPS technology to grab booty

 

Worse still, let us imagine that the reporter finds an anti-caching source. In the absence of the other viewpoint, that becomes the lead on the story. Possible headline number two:

 

High-tech trespassers are ruining BC wilderness, official says

 

On the other hand, here you have an opportunity to promote your key messages -- things like geocaching responsibly, respecting the land, treating caches properly.

 

Forget about stopping people from finding out about geocaching -- it's too late. Instead, worry about WHAT they are going to find out, and make sure that it's the right information. Hopefully, you'll end up with a headline more like this:

 

Eco-friendly gamers follow their GPS to outdoor adventure

 

Reporters appreciate all the help they can get. If you provide them with solid background material and some good quotes from your spokesperson, you'll increase the chances that the messages that you consider to be important will make it into the story.

 

You also have the opportunity to establish the BCGA as a credible media source for information on the sport. Next time someone does a story on geocaching, you want them to call you, and not someone else.

 

Regarding the event specifically, it is pretty hard to uninvite the media, especially since the event is open to the public. However, reporters are people too and they'll work to accomodate you. If you don't want them running around with mikes and cameras everywhere, then make arrangements. Identify a person to be the media spokesperson. Have them help reporters get the stuff they need, they'll respect that and work with that person. They'll want to talk to some of the new cachers, but you can screen people beforehand to find out who is comfortable.

 

Find out why the volunteers are uncomfortable: If it because they don't want to speak to the media or be seen on cameras, that is manageable, since you've designated a media liaison. If they are upset over the whole issue, you've got to work to resolve that internally.

 

Regards,

Anthony

[GawnFishin]

<-snip->

 

I'd love it if we could all keep it as "our little secret", but that is obviously not realistic.  Yes, I found out about it on TV and yes, I am being selfish, but I kinda wish we could put a lid on it now. 

 

<-snip->

 

But if we try keeping it secret and it's a hobby for the "in" crowd only then I can see it getting harder for us to expect government bodies(read Parks Department) to open "public" areas for use by an exclusive crowd. Maybe it should be harder to find the cache locations, for example country specific associations and memberships required to access cache location information on a per country basis.

 

Also maybe there number of caches is a problem for you but once I've done the ten or so in my area then I've got hundreds of kilometers to travel to find another cache, I'd like to see more caches in my area as it is now the closest cache to me is 70km as the crow flies. Remember also that just because you may not like a certain cache for whatever reason doesn't mean other may not find it enjoyable.

[+Gonzo-YT]

People find out about it on their own, there's no need to "promote" it.  We don't need/want any more cache rogues, and the like.

 

I think that Should we promote geocaching? is not the right question. The question is, how do we want newcomers to learn about geocaching?

 

The best advice I can give you is if you don't want the bad cachers, then make sure that people who are finding out about the sport find out the right information. Being protectionist won't help this issue. Instead, be advocates and leaders for the sport and make sure that newcomers learn to cache responsibly.

 

The other question I have is more an ethical issue. What makes it right to try to keep other people out of a sport that all of us enjoy, particularly since we're making use of public spaces and resources?

 

If the sport continues to grow, I believe that people need to start thinking about how to ensure that geocaching is sustainable, rather than trying to keep newcomers out of it. A key issue of keeping the sport viable will be maintaining public goodwill to use public lands and resources. Being open goes a long way towards that goal.

 

Regards,

Anthony

[+Gorak]

These are my reasons avoiding media coverage of caching. I've cut and pasted them from a similar members-only discussion on the BCGA forums.

 

• Media promotion of caching is not focused on attracting the right demographic. While it may attract a number of new cachers, it can also attract more cache thieves or new cachers who will hide a couple of caches then get bored and abandon them. We've already seen this.
  
• Publicity, in any form, raises the visibility of caching to those in the position to regulate it such as various levels of government officials and bureaucrats who might believe that the most expedient way to deal with "the problem" is to ban it outright. This is very common in the US where there has been quite a bit of media attention.
  
• Most people who discover caching on their own tend to be technically minded outdoors types. By casting a wide media net aimed at promoting caching, you are likely to attract people who are less concerned about environmental damage, respecting private property or even maintaining the caches that they hide.
  
• You have no control as to how the reporter will actually portray caching or the people involved. Reporters are not the most straight-up people and will promise you one thing and deliver quite another. I've had experience with this in the past, unrelated to caching. While the resulting story could be well written and informative, it could also be edited to make caching and cachers look like a bunch of geeks and nutbars. You must remember that the media is more interested in entertainment and sensationalism (which equal ratings) than in factual, balanced reporting. A bunch of whacked out nutbars trampling the underbrush and littering the forest with plastic boxes is much more entertaining than a story about a unique family-oriented pastime.
  

While all of my points are generalizations that will have many obvious exceptions, I believe they are all valid concerns that should be considered before becoming involved with the media.

 

I agree that you can't stop the media if they really want to do a story. The question is, how much effort will the reporter put into a puff piece if nobody wants to talk to them? I disagree that one can influence how a reporter writes his story as most reporters go into these types of stories with a predefined angle that they would like to convey and will twist your words and actions to suit that angle. Facts become less important when they are not reporting 'hard news' - especially when that story is distilled down to a 2 minute filler to be aired on a slow news night.

 

In regards to the Novice Night, it is happening tomorrow evening. The reason the organizer was asked to 'uninvite' the media is because many felt that a media presence would distract from the educational nature of the event and the focus would shift from helping and educating the new cachers to catering to the media. Additionaly, many of the experienced cachers who had volunteered to help with the event stated that, under no uncertain terms, would they participate if the media were present.

[GawnFishin]

Work with the media to convey the image of the sport you wish to portray. Though it is true your not going to get the exact coverage you want every time out but hell it's got to be better than being totally rejected every time for having an elitist attitude...

 

If you don't work with the media to try to get the type of promotion you would like then the media will have an open day portraying your sport the way they want. Now what is the better option? Work with them or against them?

 

I can only imagine the type of story a journalist would write after talking to some of the posters from around here.

[+Larry.s]

I subscribe to the Beautiful BC magazine and found out about it from an article in one of those. At the time, I thought it was something brand new. Told a guy at work and he said he's known about it for years. So if not for that article, I guess I still wouldn't know about it.

[+canadazuuk]

One of the reasons I am not hesitant to see geocaching being covered by the media, even TV media, is that I have confidence in geocaching.com's well founded guidelines and operating structure.

 

Through the efforts of the full-time staff and the many volunteers, the community at geocaching.com almost seamlessly puts forth it's best foot when issues arise.

 

Take for example, a recent incident where a well known geocacher tried to bring undue grief upon gc.com and another cacher, by contacting the Burlington Northern Railway, and saying that gc.com allows caches to be placed on railway property, or near train tracks, thus potentially causing legal concerns for the various parties. One account of this incident that I heard was that this 'complaint' was refuted very quickly with an exacting response, and that the BNR was very satisfied with the guidelines and approval process that gc.com has.

 

Now I realize this recent incident isn't neccessarily 'media related' (though it could have been...), the point I am trying to make is that gc.com has a very functional set of guidelines, and I'm not worried that a so-called flood of new cachers are going to water down the hobby... If media exposure does indeed bring new cachers to the hobby, it is only for the benefit of the hobby. The system gc.com has to deal with cache approvals works.

 

Some say media exposure may attract cache rogues/pirates/thieves. I can't say that this is or isn't the case with 100% certainty, but I am highly suspicious of the idea that media exposure will cause someone to go out and buy a $250 GPS so they can steal $10 geocaches.

[+Renegade Knight]

Media is either your friend your your enemy but they are there just the same. The job of any cacher or site is to turn even bad media contacts into good ones.

[thorin]

Some say media exposure may attract cache rogues/pirates/thieves. I can't say that this is or isn't the case with 100% certainty, but I am highly suspicious of the idea that media exposure will cause someone to go out and buy a $250 GPS so they can steal $10 geocaches.

I agree 100%

[+Volanges]

I found out about geocaching through CBC radio, first about a cache in Labrador then when Sheila did an interview with the original geocacher. Wanted to try it from the very first moment but it was about a year later that we spluged on a GPS.

 

In our small town there are 3 families & 1 youth trio who geocache with a few cachers in a community 500 Km away. We've gone from 2 caches within a 100 mile radius on March 25/04 to 19 caches as of yesterday.

 

It caused great excitement when a new name popped up on a cache site recently -- a visiting military person from Italy. But would a lot more publicity improve things? I don't think so.

 

There was an article on Confluence hunting in this months edition of Downhomer magazine (read by Nfld & Lab ex-pats all over the world), with a sidebar about caching. Interest might pick up everywhere due to that.

[thorin]

Wow that's alot of really big special blue text.

[+Gorak]

One of the reasons I am not hesitant to see geocaching being covered by the media, even TV media, is that I have confidence in geocaching.com's well founded guidelines and operating structure.

Geocaching.com is not geocaching, but merely a listing site. GC's guidelines only apply to the hiding of caches that are listed on GC. Those guidelines do not and cannot direct the behavior of cachers seeking those caches nor do they affect caches hidden and listed on other sites. In other words, GC is not the governing body of geocaching as much as they would like to represent themselves as such. There is and there always will be caching activities occuring outside the auspices of GC that have little regard for the policies and guidelines of GC. Any competent reporter will be able to figure that out pretty quickly.

 

If you don't work with the media to try to get the type of promotion you would like then the media will have an open day portraying your sport the way they want. Now what is the better option? Work with them or against them?

So, if I understand you correctly you are suggesting that, when the media comes calling, we should all be obligated to cater to their whims and demands as a form of damage control lest they portray caching negatively? Sorry, I don't buy into that, nor do I accept that this game needs to be promoted. There is another option besides either working with the media or against the media. You can also choose to not interact with the media at all.

[+canadazuuk]

Geocaching.com is not geocaching, but merely a listing site.  GC's guidelines only apply to the hiding of caches that are listed on GC.  Those guidelines do not and cannot direct the behavior of cachers seeking those caches nor do they affect caches hidden and listed on other sites.

While I agree with you that geocaching.com cannot directly control the actions of geocachers, they DO control the listings, and the guidelines used to approve listings.

 

Since 99% or more of the geocaches around here are on geocaching.com, it is an easy conclusion to make that the game a} has guidelines and b} caches are monitored to ensure they don't contravene the guidelines.

 

Again, what does this mean in relation to 'media exposure'?

 

It means I am not worried about new cachers taking up the hobby and flooding the area with bad caches, and/or caches that would contravene the guidelines and bring the hobby into disrepute.

 

While some may argue that media exposure will bring the wrong kind of person into the hobby, I totally disagree. To say that we only want a certain kind of person taking part in geocaching is elitist, and I don't think that's the position even those who are against media exposure want to take. Everyone is welcome to geocache.

Edited August 18, 2004 by canadazuuk

[+Gonzo-YT]

As I said earlier, the way you mitigate having the event become media-focused is you designate someone to work with the media. That person's job is to help the reporters get their story while keeping them from affecting the event. I assume that you're breaking out into small groups to do cache hunts -- why not have a volunteer with a couple of extra GPS units take the reporters out on their own hunt? It sounds corny, but you could even have one of the "prizes" in the cache be a media backgrounder on geocaching.

 

If you're worried about media attention causing a backlash against the sport, why not be proactive and start your own campaign to inform politicians and officials. Urge them to develop a policy that supports responsible caching as a legitimate and environmentally friendly outdoor activity. Emphasize the benefits to them -- geo-tourism, healthier populations (it gets all the geeks out of their chairs )... Show them examples of other jurisdictions that have supportive policies.

 

It's better they hear it from you first than in the media. You might find out a decision has already been made and you weren't even at the table.

 

At any rate, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I'm just making some suggestions.

 

I'm interested to hear how it works out. I'd really appreciate it if people in this forum could keep this thread updated with what happens tonight, and also link to any relevant media stories that come out of it.

 

Regards,

Anthony

[GawnFishin]

[*]Media promotion of caching is not focused on attracting the right demographic.  While it may attract a number of new cachers, it can also attract more cache thieves or new cachers who will hide a couple of caches then get bored and abandon them.  We've already seen this.

I believe anyone with this attitude is a perfect example of the wrong demographic.

 

Anyone who think that the media is going to present whatever story they want with complete disregard to the people who participate in an activity is certainly wearing a tin hat that's a few sizes troo small.

[GawnFishin]

Hey I got an idea! Why don't we stop listing our caches all together, you never know, the wrong people might find out about them.

[+Gorak]

Anyone who think that the media is going to present whatever story they want with complete disregard to the people who participate in an activity is certainly wearing a tin hat that's a few sizes troo small. 

I was wondering why this topic was giving me a headache. I'll run out right after work and shop for larger hat.

 

You're absolutely right. The media would never twist an interview or story to make it more sensational or to further their own agendas. Everything you see in the media can be taken as absolute gospel.

 

It's a shame you felt it necessary to degenerate this discussion into a personal attack.

Edited August 18, 2004 by Gorak

[+Dagg]

Geo 96 N

[+Gorak]

Geo 96 N

 

Geo 138 101

[GawnFishin]

You're absolutely right.  The media would never twist an interview or story to make it more sensational or to further their own agendas.  Everything you see in the media can be taken as absolute gospel. 

 

If you have some thing to hide or the media is trying to expose a corrupt situation then I suppose you wouldn't want the media involved because be dadgum sure they wouldn't necessarily be interested in the story you expressly want told.

 

This is a sport! Do you see the difference? We are not trying to cover things up! We have not done anything wrong. All we want to do is introduce people to new things, maybe encourage someone to get their lazy butts outdoors and understand the nature and land they live on. Very bad thing this must be and I can understand why the media would portray this in such a bad light. Don't you think this is a little bit too much conspiracy theory?

 

When was the last time the news media portrayed the Olympics badly, probably only when cheating and drugging is involved. Personally I think this is a good thing because then bad people get caught, not good people.

 

Also further to my argument...

 

We've been getting some great press out there. So much, in fact, that we've dedicated a page to document all the great stories from the media.

From here.

Since Geocaching was first profiled in the New York Times in October of 2000, the sport has been on tv, radio, national and local magazines and newspapers.

From here.

 

Have a read of some of the horror stories listed on that last link, geocaching will never recover.

[+Gorak]

Have a read of some of the horror stories listed on that last link, geocaching will never recover.

The issue of media integrity (an oxymoron if I ever saw one) is not really my main concern. My biggest concern is the media raising more public awareness of caching to the point that various regulators feel they need to address the activity by somehow regulating it.

 

From your moniker, I gather you are a fisherman. When you find a great private little fishing hole, do you wave a flag to let all the other fishermen know about it? Do you call the press to publicize what a great spot you've discovered so that everyone else can converge on it with their stereos and jetskis? If so, my too-tight tin hat is off to you. How long do you think your great little fishing hole will last?

 

Bringing too much attention to a good thing will usually ruin it.

 

Geo 54 104

Edited August 18, 2004 by Gorak

[+canadazuuk]

The analogy would be stated better:

 

You are a fisherman, you like fishing, and you like fishing with your buddies. Would you like to keep fishing a secret from the rest of the world?

 

I agree with you Gorak, about 'where' you fish, and maybe you wouldn't advertise all your secrets if you were a fisherman.

 

But the difference with geocaching is that, unlike fish, geocaches are left behind even after someone has enjoyed their day in that great spot.

 

A further irony, is that geocachers by the very nature of the hobby, explicity share their favorite places with others.

Edited August 18, 2004 by canadazuuk

[+Gorak]

You missed the point Zuuky. The point is, that overpublicizing a good thing generally ruins it.

 

Whistler used to be a great spot to spend the weekend. I wouldn't even stop there for gas anymore. Wreck Beach used to be a great place to soak up some rays away from the tourist hordes. Now there is a food or beer vendor every few meters and a steady stream of tourists with cameras. Meager Creek used to be a great little hidden hot springs to spend the weekend at. Now it is closed because of the resulting excessive traffic on the logging roads and wild weekend parties.

 

There are lots of other examples of things or places that were ruined by too much publicity and the masses of people, commericalism and/or regulation that resulted.

 

Geo 12

[GawnFishin]

Have a read of some of the horror stories listed on that last link, geocaching will never recover.

The issue of media integrity (an oxymoron if I ever saw one) is not really my main concern. My biggest concern is the media raising more public awareness of caching to the point that various regulators feel they need to address the activity by somehow regulating it.

 

With an active governing body or association of Geocachers lobbying MP's and the media and presenting OUR side of the story we better promote what we do and who we are. Sure I can see how the media might run headlines about "Nutcase conspiracy theorists leaving covert messages amongst the rocks for fear of the goverment finding out what they do". Or should we present ourselves to the media explain what we do and that we are not enviromental terrorists, and promote CITO events and the like, demonstrating that we are approachable friendly and enviromentally conscious because this would certainly be more convincing to government departments the next time we ask for permission to use parks and public areas. Wouldn't you agree?

 

From your moniker, I gather you are a fisherman.  When you find a great private little fishing hole, do you wave a flag to let all the other fishermen know about it?  Do you call the press to publicize what a great spot you've discovered so that everyone else can converge on it with their stereos and jetskis?  If so, my too-tight tin hat is off to you.  How long do you think your great little fishing hole will last?

 

Don't assume, you'd be wrong but I can work with the analogy. I would be keen to talk to people about fishing just as I would Geocaching I would show them a couple of nice fishing spots(Caches) but I wouldn't necessarily tell them about all the great fishing spots. I would expect them to do their home work also and find some of their own caches (I mean fishing spots). I would if it was my position to talk openly about fishing and explain how responsible fishermen practice enviromentally friend caching activities (Oops I meant fishing habits). I would encourage other fishermen to be considerate of others when fishing by being open about promoting healthy caching activities.

Lead by example, do not hide in shame. Because ultimately if your going to hide people are going to think your hiding something and will tend to think less of you and your activity.

 

Bringing too much attention to a good thing will usually ruin it.

 

Maybe, but hiding under a rock while someone else tells everyone about your little secret only protects it for so long and, eventually others will find out as they are already finding out about geocaching. So why not control the information before someone else takes all the control out of your hands completely and present us all badly. Being in control or at least being active in the process of spreading the information will only attract those who are genuinely interested anyway.

 

People are going to find out about geocaching anyway no matter what you do. As is evident by the new members who keep joinging. How can you possibly know that all of these people are well intentioned people? You can't! Stopping the publicity doesn't stop asshats from finding out about geocaching it only reduces the number, beside as has already been asked who is going to spend $200 on a GPSr to destroy a $10 cache?

[+Gorak]

With an active governing body or association of Geocachers lobbying MP's and the media and presenting OUR side of the story we better promote what we do and who we are. Sure I can see how the media might run headlines about "Nutcase conspiracy theorists leaving covert messages amongst the rocks for fear of the goverment finding out what they do".

So your suggesting that the primary focus of a caching association should be as a lobby group to defend the actions of cachers? And what if that is not the story that the media wants to report?

 

Or should we present ourselves to the media explain what we do and that we are not enviromental terrorists, and promote CITO events and the like, demonstrating that we are approachable friendly and enviromentally conscious because this would certainly be more convincing to government departments the next time we ask for permission to use parks and public areas. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't agree. I don't ask permission to use parks and public areas because they are public. I don't feel that I need to ask someone's permission to pursue a legal activity in a public place.

 

Don't assume, you'd be wrong but I can work with the analogy. I would be keen to talk to people about fishing just as I would Geocaching I would show them a couple of nice fishing spots(Caches) but I wouldn't necessarily tell them about all the great fishing spots. I would expect them to do their home work also and find some of their own caches (I mean fishing spots). I would if it was my position to talk openly about fishing and explain how responsible fishermen practice enviromentally friend caching activities (Oops I meant fishing habits). I would encourage other fishermen to be considerate of others when fishing by being open about promoting healthy caching activities.

Lead by example, do not hide in shame. Because ultimately if your going to hide people are going to think your hiding something and will tend to think less of you and your activity.

It was obviously a bad analogy since both you and Zuuky totally missed the point of it entirely. I was not comparing fish to caches. I was trying to point out that bringing too much attention to a good thing will usually ruin it for everyone. Not everything is scalable to the masses.

 

Maybe, but hiding under a rock while someone else tells everyone about your little secret only protects it for so long and, eventually others will find out as they are already finding out about geocaching. So why not control the information before someone else takes all the control out of your hands completely and present us all badly. Being in control or at least being active in the process of spreading the information will only attract those who are genuinely interested anyway.

I'll agree that regardless of how many people choose not to participate in a media event, there will always be a media hound who will not only participate but actively seek their 15 minutes of fame. We have a couple of them in our own caching community. But just because someone else chooses to participate in something I am opposed to does not mean that I am going to compromise my principles and join them. To believe that you can control the media or how they choose to report something is simply naive.

 

People are going to find out about geocaching anyway no matter what you do. As is evident by the new members who keep joinging.

Of course people are going to find out about it. But let them find out about it the way the rest of us did - by stumbling across it on the internet or by word of mouth.

 

How can you possibly know that all of these people are well intentioned people? You can't! Stopping the publicity doesn't stop asshats from finding out about geocaching it only reduces the number, beside as has already been asked who is going to spend $200 on a GPSr to destroy a $10 cache?

Exactly. It reduces the number of "asshats". BTW - caching is not the only reason people buy a GPSr. It certainly isn't the reason I initially purchased one. And the price of a GPSr is not going to stop some teenage wanker who saw a story on the news and decided it would be cool to borrow dad's GPSr and steal a few caches. Besides, within a couple of years all new mobile phones will have GPS technology embedded (DAMHIKT) so the cost of admission will not be an issue.

[Team Cache-away]

The sport of Geocaching has grown so fast and spread so far in such a short time it is bound to attract attention. Those that may be attracted for the wrong reasons will shortly become bored and move on. It may take some time for the sport to level out. In 2000 the pendulum was on the one side with no one involved, now it is swinging to the other side with many people participating. Many people will leave, some may leave because they believe the wrong type of people are geocaching. Others will leave because they are bored. Those that stay and play will be the most satisfied. they will be part of a sport that has matured and shaken off the growing pains. Through all of these changes the press will be there watching and asking questions. The press is not going to go away. We can present ourselfs as a fun clean family type activity, or we can allow the press to tell their story of geocachers out in the bush destroying the environment looking for caches. The choice is ours to make.

[gm100guy]

people who participate in an activity is certainly wearing a tin hat that's a few sizes troo small.

 

That's why we must go hunt tupperwear in the woods. The pot I took from my kitchen along with all my wife's tupperwaer is to tight and making me do crazy things in the woods.

 

[gm100guy]

I would show them a couple of nice fishing spots(Caches) but I wouldn't necessarily tell them about all the great fishing spots. I would expect them to do their home work also and find some of their own caches (I mean fishing spots).

 

This is not personal but gawnfishin should take his own advice here and maybe learn about all the issues they are talking about in BC and not just this thread.

 

[+cyber-hunter]

Back in May of 2001 I heard about Geocaching because of a media artical. Caches were few and far between. If the no media idea would have been put forward then we would still have to travel great distances to fine new caches. So bring on the media. There are people starting and people stoping all the time. Media = new blood.

 

[GawnFishin]

Gorak Geocaching by it's very nature is telling people about your favourite fishing spot. See where you analogy fails. So you don't want to publicize the fact that your posting the location of your favourite fishing spot, well sorry you can't stop that from happening people are going to talk.

 

As for lobbying well let's see, we seem to be losing access to various public areas such as Parks Ontario and SEPAQ controlled parks in Quebec and probably a lot of other areas around the country, are these areas lost forever? Well we just might have to lobby the government to regain access to these areas and to do this is would be much easier if we had some good media coverage wouldn't you think?

 

No, I wouldn't agree. I don't ask permission to use parks and public areas because they are public. I don't feel that I need to ask someone's permission to pursue a legal activity in a public place.

You do realise there are bans on certain so called public areas? Does this concern you? Or are you just going to disregard these bans and make it harder for everyone else in the long run?

 

Now I can see why you don't want to draw attention to what we do.

[GawnFishin]

I would show them a couple of nice fishing spots(Caches) but I wouldn't necessarily tell them about all the great fishing spots. I would expect them to do their home work also and find some of their own caches (I mean fishing spots).

 

This is not personal but gawnfishin should take his own advice here and maybe learn about all the issues they are talking about in BC and not just this thread.

 

And what would your point be? Some places are being destroyed by ignorant cachers or that access to certain areas is being limited?

 

If some areas are already being damaged or destroyed by ignorant cacher then wouldn't you want to some how control geocaching in you area with a club or something similar where everyone could see who the worst offenders are? But I see from "the sandbox" that an association of cachers in BC is really an unpopular idea. Go figure.

 

I'm not necessarily interested in the issues within BC as it is not in my backyard so to speak. I do know that we are losing areas in the east and what other way do you propose that we regain access to these areas? Certainly parks departments aren't going to be very receptive to our ideas if we are not open about what we do and not presenting ourselves well.

[+Renegade Knight]

If you don't work with the media to try to get the type of promotion you would like then the media will have an open day portraying your sport the way they want. Now what is the better option? Work with them or against them?

So, if I understand you correctly you are suggesting that, when the media comes calling, we should all be obligated to cater to their whims and demands as a form of damage control lest they portray caching negatively? Sorry, I don't buy into that, nor do I accept that this game needs to be promoted. There is another option besides either working with the media or against the media. You can also choose to not interact with the media at all.

Be ready for it, and it will steal their negative thunder leaving them either with a positive story or at least no ammo for a negative one. As for not interacting, as a person that is your choice. However the media will find someone and that someone by default will become the voice of geocaching. If they are not ready then they can do a lot of harm. A better question is who should be the media contact and what should they be doing to be an excellent spoksman?

[gm100guy]

And what would your point be? Some places are being destroyed by ignorant cachers or that access to certain areas is being limited?

 

Read my nick name and then go to this thread and see what some of us are trying to do

 

[+Gorak]

No, I wouldn't agree. I don't ask permission to use parks and public areas because they are public. I don't feel that I need to ask someone's permission to pursue a legal activity in a public place.

You do realise there are bans on certain so called public areas? Does this concern you? Or are you just going to disregard these bans and make it harder for everyone else in the long run?

 

Now I can see why you don't want to draw attention to what we do.

Of course I realize there are bans on certain activities in certain parks and other public areas. That would make those activities illegal in those areas. You quoted my words but you obviously didn't read them, so I'll quote them back to you.

 

I don't feel that I need to ask someone's permission to pursue a legal activity in a public place.

How you came to your amazing conclusion that I advocate violating bans is beyond me. BTW - as far as I am aware there are currently no bans on caching in BC.

 

Geo 17

[GawnFishin]

And what would your point be? Some places are being destroyed by ignorant cachers or that access to certain areas is being limited?

 

Read my nick name and then go to this thread and see what some of us are trying to do

 

I have read the page you linked to and if I may say the group in general or at least some of us are coming off as.

1. Not wanting of public awareness

2. Want little in the way of organising besides to seek permission for a select few to use public areas.

3. Are content to be an activity mainly organized through a U.S. web site with contact being a lone Canadian approver.

 

I could be wrong and I hope I am, give me this benefit being new here myself. In my line of work, actively seeking land use approval usually means presenting yourself as a properly structured organisation with all information open and available to everyone. Actively speaking with media and presenting proposed land use including the positive and negative aspects of such use. Strangely we never seem to have much difficulty getting land use approval.

[GawnFishin]

How you came to your amazing conclusion that I advocate violating bans is beyond me.

 

Actually it's your apparent desire to keep your activity so secretive which draws suspicion.

 

BTW - as far as I am aware there are currently no bans on caching in BC.

I'm glad to hear so. What then is your problem rogue cachers? Wouldn't being better organised help solve these problems? Being so secretive would make me less inclined to open areas I was managing to your activity. Although being a caher I can understand where you are coming from but I think your getting it all wrong.

[+Gorak]

What then is your problem rogue cachers? Wouldn't being better organised help solve these problems? Being so secretive would make me less inclined to open areas I was managing to your activity. Although being a caher I can understand where you are coming from but I think your getting it all wrong.

Yes, roque cachers have been a recent problem. I'm not sure, though, why you want to turn this thread into a land use issue when the topic has more to do with BCGA participation in a TV interview with a junior reporter for a local station doing a puff piece for the local news.

 

Maybe you should start a thread about land use issues and dealing with land managers. Judging from your posts and your profile, it sounds like you have a wealth of experience to share.