Vandalized Caches

[+Team ARK-ville]

I found a cache box today that had been vandalized and the log book missing. The contents were soaking wet and some obviously missing. I took it upon myself to remove this box and logged the find. I also have emailed the owner and told him of the actions I took and to let him know I will mail the box and contents to him.

My question now is, should I have not done this and just left it there?

It just seemed the right thing to do and I did it. Oh, yes, when I logged the find tonight, I then saw that this had been archived. I had printed this cache back in June so hadn't checked the recent logs.

What a shame this happened. The cache was in a good hiding spot and the area had some great views. Hope the owner can replace it in a near by spot.

Edited August 15, 2004 by arkville

[dampeoples]

Since the cache is the property of the owner, you shouldn't have taken it at all. Since it was archived, you shouldn't have logged it.

[+Team ARK-ville]

My mistake. Won't happen again and I will still return contents and box to owner. I'm still a newbie at this. Thanks for reply.

[+Imajika]

Taking the entire cache is considered bad form. Your best bet would have been to email the owner and let him/her know that the cache is there but was severely damaged.

 

Since the cache was archived at the time you tried to find it, I wouldn't have logged it as a find either. You can always email the owner and ask their opinion on you logging it as a find if you are worried about it.

[+Team ARK-ville]

Have deleted the find and have sent two emails to the owner explaining my errors and await his reply. Thanks everyone for setting me straight and believe me I will not make that mistake again.

[+CompuCash]

OK - I understand the bad form of taking the whole cache - but what was he supposed to do - unless he really knows where the cache was supposed to be hidden is he to just leave there in the open and all wet and walk away?

 

This sound like bad form to me too. When I asked about rehabbing caches I was told I did good and was acting for the best of geocaching.

 

Now you tell arkville he did wrong.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to start a war hear - but it seems to me that he rather did well. Took the cache so it got no further dammage and offered to send it to the owner. Like I said, I do see how this could be bad form "stealing the cache" but it seems better than the alternative to me.

 

Now, he could have cleaned it up - added a log and pen and put some swag in it and tried to replace it where he thought it should go -- and THEN e-mailed the owner - but he is newer than I am and most likely does not have the goodies to really rehab this cache - have to admit, I couldn't without going home for a new log book. He likely may not even know about rehabbing a cache.

 

{ arkville - do a search on rehabbing caches and you will llikey see a few }

 

so I would like to see some input from some of the officials here -

hang in there arkville - you apeal is being argued now

[+Jeeters]

Plus there's the problem of the cache owner going MIA. There's a cache I visited last year that was recently discovered to be vandalized... the finder found the remains of the container in the ashes of a fire along with scattered log pages and some other contents littered all about. The remains were left as found but now the cache owner seems to be missing. Hasn't logged on since January. Has like three finds to his name and appears to be long gone. Poor cache... orphaned, murdered, then not given a decent burial.

Edited August 15, 2004 by Jeeters

[+RichardMoore]

akrville,

A bit of advice, something that I learned the hard way:

Check the site to make sure the cache is still listed the day that you go out to find it.

Before I got a computer and went on-line I printed the cache pages at the library. On a couple of occasions I spent over an hour looking for a cache that wasn't there, because the page that I had was printed a couple weeks ahead of time.

 

Oh, and by the way, you did find the cache, even if it had been archived, so I think it's alright to log the find. But see what the cache owner says, he would be the one to approve/disapprove the find.

[+briansnat]

Since the cache is the property of the owner, you shouldn't have taken it at all. Since it was archived, you shouldn't have logged it.

Why not a find? He went for the cache in good faith, not realizing it was archived, and found it. Is it his fault the owner was too lazy to remove it after archiving it? It's a find in my book, especially considering many of the specious finds that people claim. This one was legit.

 

As far as removal, that's a tough call. In most cases I'd say no. Since this was archived, he was doing the owner a favor by removing it and offering to send it to him. Of course he didn't know that it was archived when he set out for it, but the end result was a positive one. If the owner had intended to retreived the cache, he saved the owner a trip and if the owner had simply abandoned it, he got rid of litter.

 

In most cases however, its best to leave the cache be. Only make minor repairs unless you have the consent of the owner. If the owner has abandoned the cache then I it's OK to do as you please with it, which could range from making repairs, to adopting it.

[+Crouching Hiker, Hidden Cache]

Have deleted the find and have sent two emails to the owner explaining my errors and await his reply. Thanks everyone for setting me straight and believe me I will not make that mistake again.

Don't be too hard on yourself, your intentions were good.

 

I found an irreparably cracked cache container with a soaked-through, ink-faded logbook and one or two defunct items. I left it in place and contacted the owner, who had moved out of the area since he placed it and I was then in fact closer to the cache location, so I replaced it the next day with new everything. Thats probably not the usual situation though. (The cache was later archived for other reasons, so the problem of who would take care of it became moot).

 

I'd suggest leaving whatever you find in place and disguising it if it wasn't. Then contact the owner and go from there. Likely he/she will want to make their own visit and decide what to do with their own cache. As far as logging the find on an archived cache, is there a rule against this? I would log a find in the situation, since I would have found an intact cache at the listed coords, with a logbook. Its one way to let the owner know it still exists and decide if it should be un-archived, and who will take over ownership if necessary.

 

edit:edited.

Edited August 15, 2004 by Crouching Hiker, Hidden Cache

[+Ttepee]

Plus there's the problem of the cache owner going MIA.

Whoa!! hold the phone! Owner MIA geeze.. I decided to sit in front of the boobtube tonight rather than in front of the computer, I'd only been away from the screen for maybe 3 hours before I got Arkvilles mail and started responding with a long rambling reply that took me awhile to compose. Minus the ramblings here is my (being the cache owner) response.

 

Hey don't worry about it at all. I am grateful that you cito'd out the remains of the cache and since you did actually find the cache I see no problem with you logging it as a find. I had hoped to get out there today to pick up the trash and replace the cache but unfortunately I didn't get out... I only deactivated it last night.. as far as I'm concerned deactivation is more for the sake of future finders to try not to disappoint people when they get there and things are not just right...I didn't archive it.. so don't fear that you are logging an archived cache. But even if it was archived as far as I'm concerned you did find the cache...  Don't worry about mailing me the remains.. sounds like it's pretty much all trash anyways.. the log book would be the only thing I'd really be interested in but it seems that's missing anyways.  It would be interesting to see a pic of the remains though, just for curiosity sake, but if you don't have a digital camera don't worry about it.  I am heading to MA on Monday for a week so I feel much better that the trash has been picked up. Thank you!

[+Imajika]

OK - I understand the bad form of taking the whole cache - but what was he supposed to do - unless he really knows where the cache was supposed to be hidden is he to just leave there in the open and all wet and walk away?

 

Well, if the cache was complete (the actual container was there and not totally destroyed), I would have gathered the items I could find, place them inside the cache container and notified the owner.

 

If the cache container was completely gone or was so severely damaged that it could not have been hidden again, then I would have taken everything I could salvage and then notified the owner.

 

I was under the impression that the cache container was still there. Sorry for the misunderstanding everyone!

[+NightPilot]

If the cache is reduced to trash, I think it's a tossup as to whether to CITO it or not. I've found caches that were trashed, which I fixed up as best I could and rehid as best I could, but I think it's a judgement call, depending on the shape of the container, the logbook, and any trade items. And owners do go MIA. There's a cache in my area that is getting in bad shape, and the owner's last log is over a year ago. I've started maintaining it, just to keep it from melting away from being soaked, and tried to contact the owner with no success. Some people die, move, or just lose interest.

 

Checking the cache before going out is a good idea. I relied on pocket queries, and today went out with the latest queries loaded on my Palm. I couldn't find a cache, but I did find a golf egg, which is often a good indication that the nest is nearby. After I got home, I discovered that the cache had been archived by the local police department a few days ago, and the pocket queries hadn't updated that, for some reason. Someone had seen an ammo can in a park, called the police, and things got silly. The police bomb squad (if they had one) finally opened it and confiscated it. Maybe ammo cans aren't the smartest cache containers these days. People get excited when they see one, and not just geocachers.

Edited August 15, 2004 by NightPilot

[+Perrin]

I have to agree with Brian on this. Just because the cache was archived/disabled or whatever doesn't change the fact that you found it.

 

I had a similar situation happen where the cache had been archived after I printed the cache page. The owner had been to the site and couldn't find the remains of the cache, which led to the archiving.

 

Faile and I went out there, not knowing it was archived, and found the cache (in good condition). The only problem was that we found it over 50 feet from where it was supposed to be. We logged the find when we got home and were surprised to see it was archived. But the fact that we logged it instead of saying "oh well, its archived, I guess we shouldn't bother logging it now", then the cache owner never would have known the cache was still out there!

 

AFter a couple of e-mails back and forth we were able to get across to him where the cache could be found. He was then able to go back to it, retrieve it, and rehide it somewhere else.

 

So knowing all that, how can you say that you shouldn't log a find on something that just happens to be archived or disabled? Now I just wish some one would have been able to find the remains of our cache that went missing a few months ago

 

Final word: Relog it as a find! Especially since the cache owner said you could

[+briansnat]

Plus there's the problem of the cache owner going MIA.

Whoa!! hold the phone! Owner MIA geeze.. I decided to sit in front of the boobtube tonight rather than in front of the computer, I'd only been away from the screen for maybe 3 hours before I got Arkvilles mail and started responding with a long rambling reply that took me awhile to compose. Minus the ramblings here is my (being the cache owner) response.

 

Hey don't worry about it at all. I am grateful that you cito'd out the remains of the cache and since you did actually find the cache I see no problem with you logging it as a find. I had hoped to get out there today to pick up the trash and replace the cache but unfortunately I didn't get out... I only deactivated it last night.. as far as I'm concerned deactivation is more for the sake of future finders to try not to disappoint people when they get there and things are not just right...I didn't archive it.. so don't fear that you are logging an archived cache. But even if it was archived as far as I'm concerned you did find the cache...  Don't worry about mailing me the remains.. sounds like it's pretty much all trash anyways.. the log book would be the only thing I'd really be interested in but it seems that's missing anyways.  It would be interesting to see a pic of the remains though, just for curiosity sake, but if you don't have a digital camera don't worry about it.  I am heading to MA on Monday for a week so I feel much better that the trash has been picked up. Thank you!

How dare you take time from monitoring your caches . Seriously, I didn't realize it was you Ttepee. I would never accuse you of being a lazy cache owner.

Edited August 15, 2004 by briansnat

[+Robespierre]

specious finds

Good word, B!

[+briansnat]

specious finds

Good word, B!

Did I spell it correctly?

[+Nurse Dave]

Since it was archived, you shouldn't have logged it.

Ummm, since when is this a rule? If you can't find the cache then it's not a find. I found a cache totally intact with log book that was archived on the word of other cachers that it was gone but it was never checked on by the cache owner. I signed the log, logged it and emailed the owner. In general archived should mean don't bother looking because it's not there, but if it's there you found it so it counts.

[+welch]

Now, he could have cleaned it up - added a log and pen and put some swag in it and tried to replace it where he thought it should go -- and THEN e-mailed the owner - but he is newer than I am and most likely does not have the goodies to really rehab this cache - have to admit, I couldn't without going home for a new log book. He likely may not even know about rehabbing a cache.

Something like that would have been my suggestion. Fix and put the cache back as much as possiable right then and notify the owner.

Now if the cache had actually been archived (as I understand it, it was not, right?), removing the leftovers would be the better thing to do (CITO!).

[+Team ARK-ville]

I wish to Thank everyone for your help. I have been in contact with the owner Ttepee and everything is straightened out. Permission was granted for the find and relogged.

Rest assured I will not make this mistake again.

Happy cacheing to all. This thread can be closed.