Yadnft

[+rusty_tlc]

Heres the scene. I tried for two caches today at lunch with out my GPS. I was going by Topo's and description/clues. Just something to fill up an hour and get me out of my cube. I'm pretty sure I was within a few feet of them.

I'll go back later and I'm sure I will find them when I have my GPS in hand.

 

So do I post DNF's for the caches? It's not like I'm letting the owner's know there is a potential problem, so will the DNF serve any purpose?

[+briansnat]

Yes, you went to find the caches and didn't.

[+NightPilot]

I think it's up to you. I don't see the importance one way or the other. Do what your conscience dictates, or at least what will cause your conscience to hurt you less. This isn't a world-shaking issue.

[+El Diablo]

I personally believe that you post a DNF when you have given up on the cache. I don't believe you should post a DNF if your hunt was cut short by time, weather, or lack of equipment...(GPS).

 

A DNF should be used to notify the cache owner that there may be a problem with the cache. Hunting a cache without a GPS and not finding it, isn't a potential problem with the cache.

 

Other opinons may vary. Actually I'm sure they will.

 

El Diablo

[+fly46]

If you're questioning your decision to not post a DNF, then why not post a note? Say "I tried these without my GPSr, no luck. I'll try later when I can plug in the cords"

 

Personally, I wouldn't post a DNF if the problem was something like that, but I would probably post a note... Most people read backlogs just to see what experience other cachers have.

[+Harrald]

Yes, you went to find the caches and didn't.

That about sums it up for me.

[+katguy]

I'd post a DNF with text pretty much the same as your original post. I look on the logs as being really only records for myself. I hope that I'm the only one who really cares what my geocaching history is, and a complete log record helps me remember my experiences. The only other person to care will be the owner and they really just want (and deserve) to know that someone came out to look (aside from needing to know about multiple successive DNFs indicative of a problem - which a DNF of this sort shouldn't trigger as the log would show that it was a try without GPSr)

 

my thoughts....

 

edit: spelling

Edited August 4, 2004 by katguy

[+briansnat]

A DNF should be used to notify the cache owner that there may be a problem with the cache. Hunting a cache without a GPS and not finding it, isn't a potential problem with the cache.

 

Although DNFs can indicate a problem with a cache, they do not necessarily mean there is one. The point of a DNF is to log the result of your search. You went to look for cache and you either found it, or you didn't. The latter gets a DNF. If you want to put the reason for the DNF in the log, then great, but the reason doesn't change the fact that you didn't find the cache.

 

Your DNF log will also let the owner know that someone is interested in his cache and is looking for it, no matter what the result.

[+tirediron]

DNF or note.... just make sure that you make it clear that it's not 'cause you think that there might be a problem with the 'cache.

[n0wae]

I see nothing wrong with posting a note. I do the same if I find muggles camped out near the cache preventing me from doing a *proper search*. Going without a GPS doesn't rate a DNF in my book. (Heck, it's not even Geocaching!) If I have a car wreck half way to the cache do I post a DNF? I don't think so.

[+El Diablo]

A DNF should be used to notify the cache owner that there may be a problem with the cache. Hunting a cache without a GPS and not finding it, isn't a potential problem with the cache.

 

Although DNFs can indicate a problem with a cache, they do not necessarily mean there is one. The point of a DNF is to log the result of your search. You went to look for cache and you either found it, or you didn't. The latter gets a DNF. If you want to put the reason for the DNF in the log, then great, but the reason doesn't change the fact that you didn't find the cache.

 

Your DNF log will also let the owner know that someone is interested in his cache and is looking for it, no matter what the result.

brian, I agree with most of what you are saying, but on the other hand I humbly disagree with some parts.

 

A DNF isn't a badge of shame. It's a tool meant to notify the cache owner of a possible problem. I have my share of DNF posts, and in most instances the cache was later determined missing. I have also posted a DNF on a few that just stumped me.

 

I think if a person goes to find a cache based on hints, without a GPS and dosen't find the cache, there is no reason to notify the community that he didn't find it. What pupose dose it serve? He can post a note letting the everyone know he searched for it without conventional means (GPS), and was unsuccesful.

 

El Diablo

[+Quest Master]

Has anybody noticed that you post a "didn't find it" but the email notice goes out to the cache owner and everybody on the watch list as "couldn't find it".

 

I wonder if this has something to do with this topic coming up again and again.

 

There is a difference in my mind.

 

Sometimes I "didn't find it" because I didn't even make it to the coordinates or I ran out of time, or some other excuse.

 

Sometimes I "couldn't find it".

[+Boo & Kitty]

Personally, I use the post a note option in situations like this. I only DNF when I've flat given up or something seems amiss.

 

What we need is an "I didn't try hard enough" option.

[+Ambrosia]

I agree with diablo with this one.

 

A lot of times I don't have the time to search properly, because of my family and 'sponsibilities.

 

Sometimes I can only go there for a sec just to get the right coords because my husband has a GPS, and not me. And then I can go back later to really look.

 

At one cache, I looked something like 4 times before I found it. The "evil" micro cache was in a playground.

The first time, my GPS was all over the place, and had me right by the playground (probably 80 feet from the actual cache). There was a guy with his little daughter, playing in the playground. I'm a woman, but I still felt wierd wandering around, with the dad looking at me suspiciosly. After lurking for a few minutes, I left.

Second time, I was armed with a better idea of location, but had about two minutes.

Third time, I was with my husband, and had about 2 minutes.

Fourth time, I had at this point figured the whole thing out in my head, and knew right where the cache was. But some nice neighbor was weeding in her garden about two feet from the cache. I almost went home that time, too, but was getting sick of it. So I worked up my courage and looked anyway. She was sweet about it, and I told her what I was doing. That relieved her mind, cause she had seen a lot of people being wierd lately, and so she now knew what they were doing.

 

Needless to say, I didn't feel like DNFing all those times. It seems silly to me. I logged, said it had taken me 3 failed attempts, told the story about the lady, and left it at that.

 

A local cacher was unhappy with me, and made an inference that if people don't log DNFs, it is because of pride. Well, before micro's came to my town, I had only had one dnf ever, and that was at an out of town "evil" micro while still a newbie.

 

If I was at a regular cache, and could not find it, I would DNF to make sure it wasn't actually missing. But when I know it is evil, and I only check it at small intervalls, I don't want to fill my life up with dnfs. It gets redundant and time consuming.

 

I know that "evil" cache owners like to see dnfs cause they can feel good about the evilness of their cache, but I prefer to log once I have found it, and tell how many times it took me to find it. That way they can know.

 

But as it stands, since my local cacher is not happy with my failure to dnf, I don't ever want to mention again how many times it took me to find a cache, which is a shame.

 

We all need to accept that we are different, and cache differently. We need to be having fun!

[+Leapin' Lizards]

We agree with Boo & Kitty. Lizards are lazy, so if we're looking at potential caches and see two frowny faces in a row in recent cache logs, we sometimes dump it and try a different one. On the other hand, we really want to know when people can't find our caches, so we know to go check on them and verify their existence.

 

I believe in logging DNFs, but I like the "can I come back next week and play again?" option as well.

[+Team Perks]

As far as categorically logging DNF's or not, there are too many "what ifs" to set a uniform standard. If I get within 100 feet of the cache but can't look, is it a DNF? 1000 feet? Heck, right now I'm at home, not finding literally tens of thousands of caches as I write.

 

Frankly, either a DNF or a note will advise the owner and other cachers of your attempt. Go with your own judgment and don't worry about what everyone else thinks you should do.

[+geoSquid]

I post a DNF if I believe that I did actually make it to the cache site and could not find the cache, or if I got part way there and some unmentioned terrain beyond the terrain rating blocked passage (i.e. a 5' deep, 15' wide, fast-running stream in the middle of a terrain 3 hunt). If I bomb out because I got a flat tire on the way there or something like that, I won't put a DNF.

 

In the log, I'll list why I think I didn't find it. Often it's something like "looked for a while, didn't find, will try again some other time" and I think those are important for future cachers who will recognize that they may have a harder search on their hands than originally planned for.

 

If I think I was really on the right spot and searched hard, I send an email to the cache owner to verify that I was there and a description of what I found and let the cache owner take it from there.

 

To date, I've only DNF'd one cache that was actually gone. Most of the rest that I've DNF'd once I've found on a second trip, although there's a micro that's eluded me so long I'm thinking of agent-oranging the island it sits on

 

I don't mind being told by a cache owner "you were there and I know the cache is there, just keep looking". I'm not a searching god

 

Usually I watch any cache I DNF to see if more DNFs follow me or if someone finds it.

Edited August 4, 2004 by geoSquid

[+GeoKender]

I'm gonna have to stick with Briansnat on this one. You did have a TOPO! map of immediate area along with a description of the cache's hiding place to help in the find.

Wadr, you accepted to take on a more difficult challenge, attempting a find without a GPSr, but fell short of your achievement. Sorry, but filing a DNF is the honorable way to go.

 

If you succeeded, I bet you would've been doin' "da shimmy".

[+JMBella]

You should proudly post a DNF. The fact that you even tried without a GPS is impressive. Just write that in the log. That will also let the owner know there's no problem with the cache.

[+JMBella]

A DNF isn't a badge of shame. It's a tool meant to notify the cache owner of a possible problem.

 

I have to dissagree with that El D. I don't think the DNF option is there strickly to report a potential problem. Some caches are meant to stump players. In those cases the DNF is there to say, "You got me this time but I'll be back." Or something like that.

[AC Student]

Your GPS-less search will make an interesting addition to the cache history. Either a note or a dnf will accomplish that. Take your pick. I'd sleep fine either way.

[+JohnnyVegas]

Some caches are meant to stump players. In those cases the DNF is there to say, "You got me this time but I'll be back." Or something like that.

I have a few micros like this, they get quite a few DNFs not because there is a problem, they are hard to find. Uless I see quite a few DNFs by more experianced caches I do not check them, when I do, they are still there waiting to be found.

 

Now there are cases in which a DNF can mean there is a problem. This last weekend I was looking for a cache without any luck. When I get home to log myDNF I found out that another cacher (Not the owner) had move the cache to another location and the cache owner had not correct the coordinates. So when I loaded the coordinates into my GPS with Easy GPS they were not correct. As such I did not log a DNF, I posted a note because I was sent to the wrong plac e. The owner will see this note and maybe correct the problem, but i do not consider this a DNF

[+fly46]

What we need is an "I didn't try hard enough" option.

 

 

Hmm... Most people call that a note!

[+SixTen]

I personally believe that you post a DNF when you have given up on the cache. I don't believe you should post a DNF if your hunt was cut short by time, weather, or lack of equipment...(GPS).

 

A DNF should be used to notify the cache owner that there may be a problem with the cache. Hunting a cache without a GPS and not finding it, isn't a potential problem with the cache.

 

Other opinons may vary. Actually I'm sure they will.

 

El Diablo

I'm with you on this one...

[+Sagefox]

If you're questioning your decision to not post a DNF, then why not post a note?  Say "I tried these without my GPSr, no luck.  I'll try later when I can plug in the cords"

I agree. DNF's discourage visiting cachers. We always have to "visit" to find caches and don't have time to spend on caches where the container might be missing. A dnf latest log usually means we'll avoid the cache.

 

The condition you describe here is what I would call a "false" dnf. I post a note when I can't or don't give it an honest effort. This includes giving up because I didn't have the gpsr, raining too heavily, muggle infestation, didn't find the correct way into the park, wrong side of the creek and other misc. give-ups.

 

A full search effort = a dnf. Full search effort might be as little as 10 minutes or as long as 45 minutes but it is an intense search AT the site coordinates and giving up because I believe I've been stumped or that the container might be missing.

 

The choice of dnf v. note is not for my benefit, it is for the cache owner and future finders. I want my logs to help the cache not hurt it.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Team Sagefox

[ju66l3r]

I almost always log a DNF on a cache if I gave it a good effort and didn't find it. If I return again to look another day and find it, I will edit my DNF log into a Find and update the date.

 

I can then use the calendar and things to see a record of my activities.

[+sept1c_tank]

My opinion.

[+JMBella]

If you're questioning your decision to not post a DNF, then why not post a note?  Say "I tried these without my GPSr, no luck.  I'll try later when I can plug in the cords"

I agree. DNF's discourage visiting cachers. We always have to "visit" to find caches and don't have time to spend on caches where the container might be missing. A dnf latest log usually means we'll avoid the cache.

 

The condition you describe here is what I would call a "false" dnf. I post a note when I can't or don't give it an honest effort. This includes giving up because I didn't have the gpsr, raining too heavily, muggle infestation, didn't find the correct way into the park, wrong side of the creek and other misc. give-ups.

 

A full search effort = a dnf. Full search effort might be as little as 10 minutes or as long as 45 minutes but it is an intense search AT the site coordinates and giving up because I believe I've been stumped or that the container might be missing.

 

The choice of dnf v. note is not for my benefit, it is for the cache owner and future finders. I want my logs to help the cache not hurt it.

As I said before, If you post the reason for the DNF, IE: "tried this one without a GPS" then it will not discourage anyone from hunting it next. A single DNF typically does not stop most people from hunting a cache anyway.

 

The description is there to exaplain the situation behind a find or DNF. Other wise there would be just a bunch of purple and yellow faces on the screen.

[+PandyBat]

I hope that I'm the only one who really cares what my geocaching history is, and a complete log record helps me remember my experiences. The only other person to care will be the owner and they really just want (and deserve) to know that someone came out to look (aside from needing to know about multiple successive DNFs indicative of a problem - which a DNF of this sort shouldn't trigger as the log would show that it was a try without GPSr)

Ditto! I don't look for caches in order to report their condition. I log my experiences for myself and for the cache owner. I don't log DNFs or anything else for the people that don't read the logs or that use software programs that don't give them the full story on why a log was posted as it was. No sense in posting several DNFs on a cache for each trip I made to search for it if nobody is going to read WHY I couldn't find it. I log DNFs solely when I've given up on a cache and don't intend to go back.

Most people around here don't even post notes, DNFs or anything about the cache until they've found it, no matter how many times they attempted to search for it. We all do it differently.

 

If you're so worried about getting help on deciding whether you will go after a cache or not based on the little icon before a log, I say, go after it anyway and post your own DNF if you don't find it. You don't need me telling you whether its there or not. That's part of the fun.

The cache owner is the only one that really needs to know whether its there for maintenance purposes. So whether I post a note or a DNF, the cache owner still gets notification of it as well as anyone else with the cache on their watchlist.

 

 

I'm also surprised at the number of people that have posted here that have the same opinions about DNFs as I do. Where were you all when I felt so all alone in previous heated discussions about DNFs? lol

[+rusty_tlc]

I'm not even going to bother with a note since I'll bag both caches by the end of the week. I will mention my first attempt in the note. The end result is the same as if I had posted a note and later edited it to a find. If for some reason I don't get back there this week I'll post a note just to let the owner know I was interested in the cache.

 

Off Topic: I'm having a gas hunting urban micro sans GPS on my lunch hour. In the past I ran right out and found each one as it was approved. Then I'd have to wait a few weeks or months for another one. Making the hunt more difficult helps to make them last.

[+flask]

as a cache owner, every time some bozo writes a DNF for "i looked at the parking area and decided to try on another day", i just roll my eyes.

 

here's one reason not to log anything: if i go to try to FF a cache and i think it should not have been approved and i don't find it, i do not log anything until it has been found. that way it allows me to reserve judgement until the facts are known.

 

if i am worried about this option i DO share my concerns with local cachers, but i still reserve judgement until it's been found. the only one like that currently on my list is a dubious vacation cache. NONE of the local cachers who have hunted it have posted so much as a note.

 

here's my other won't log DNF: if i'm working on the FF of a difficult puzzle multi, i may not log my initial DNF's simply because i do not want the other locals to know how close they are to me on the trail.

 

i will let the owner know as a courtesy.

[+briansnat]

I almost always log a DNF on a cache if I gave it a good effort and didn't find it. If I return again to look another day and find it, I will edit my DNF log into a Find and update the date

 

Why would you do this? You're altering the history of the cache...AND the cache owner does't get notification of your find.

[ju66l3r]

It depends on the time it took between the DNF and the Find. If I just go back out the next day, then there's no reason to keep the DNF around (although I didn't realize edits aren't sent to hiders). The purpose of the DNF placeholder was in case anyone else was searching that same time period, they'd know that their DNF might be due to a bigger problem (cache missing) and not ineptitude. If my DNF was truly inept searching and I do find it a day later, then I don't think leaving the DNF serves much purpose at all.

 

I have a cache or two where I DNF and then a month later I go back and find it or after seeing something change about the cache I go find it and then I leave the first DNF obviously. I play it by ear.