Vacation Cache

[The Champions]

Do you beleive it should be OK to hide a cache on vacation, knowing you will not return to maintain it for a year or two, or maybe not at all.

 

Niall

[+OzzieSan]

This has been discussed more times than I can remember.

 

Step 5 - Maintain the cache

 

Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair. Once people have visited the cache, inquire about the cache and their opinion of the location. Does the area look disturbed? Are visitors disrupting the landscape in any way? If you have concerns about the location, feel free to move or remove it from the area.

[+Nurse Dave]

Ditto

 

---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

[+Nurse Dave]

Ditto

 

---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

[The Champions]

"This has been discussed more times than I can remember"

I know it has been discussed before and I have read rule No5 but it is a vote not a discussion

 

Niall

[+Nurse Dave]

Is this a vote if you should follow the rule or not?

 

---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

[+OzzieSan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Champions:

"This has been discussed more times than I can remember"

I know it has been discussed before and I have read rule No5 but it is a vote not a discussion

 

Niall

---

 

Actually in here it is both a vote and a discussion. And if you read rule #5 then why put it up for a vote? Ohh nevermind I know why...

[The Champions]

oh I get it, we can't vote on rules now, not much point in discussion either then if we can't implement change

 

Niall

[+Nurse Dave]

I'm confused. There have been discussions. For the most part the person starting the discussion wants to ignore the rule while most the people replying state many reasons to follow the rule. I think that would make the results of a poll pretty clear. You are just wanting approval to ignore the rule just in a different way.

 

If you really think there are good reasons to change this rule then post your forum title that way, state your reasons and ask for a discussion on the merits of changing the rule. But as I said, I think you can already fit the replies to all the other discussions about this rule into that forum as well.

 

---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

[crr003]

I posted this in another thread - no response. These threads follow the same layout - several people quote Rule 5. Some other people question it. The thread gets ugly or goes quiet.

 

I'm not sure why this topic is so emotive.

 

It's good to have a poll. The problem is with proportional representation the result will be skewed. (Unless the result is 'Yes it's totally OK', in which case the system works )

 

"For more on vacation caches search for the thread - "Placing a cache while on vacation". All the same comments were made (before it got ugly), with no solutions for existing vacation caches. If they're such a threat to the existence of Geocaching, why isn't someone doing something about them?

 

In the end Rule 5 will always be quoted (verbatim). Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't."

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[crr003]

I posted this in another thread - no response. These threads follow the same layout - several people quote Rule 5. Some other people question it. The thread gets ugly or goes quiet.

 

I'm not sure why this topic is so emotive.

 

It's good to have a poll. The problem is with proportional representation the result will be skewed. (Unless the result is 'Yes it's totally OK', in which case the system works )

 

"For more on vacation caches search for the thread - "Placing a cache while on vacation". All the same comments were made (before it got ugly), with no solutions for existing vacation caches. If they're such a threat to the existence of Geocaching, why isn't someone doing something about them?

 

In the end Rule 5 will always be quoted (verbatim). Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't."

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[+OzzieSan]

Also says "you can put goodies in the cache. It's recommended, but not necessary!" So what does step 2 have to do with placing a vacation cache that the hider will (probably) not maintain? Step 5 gets quoted because that happens to be the step pertinent to the topic / poll / discussion. I would consider looking after such a cache if one was to be placed in my area if the hider made arrangements with me before hiding the cache. I also think that it should not be assumed that someone will automatically look after the cache if they find it in need of repair. If you’re not going to accept the burden of cache maintenance then you should not hide the cache.

 

“Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't."

 

Step 2 says you can put those items in a cache. If someone chooses not to then that is up to them but it is not stepping out of bounds of the rules. If the speed limit is 70mph and I decide to drive 65mph I would be doing so because I chose to (not because the “rules” said I had to). Step 5 as I am sure you already know specifically addresses cache maintenance. So comparing step 2 to step 5 is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

Just my feelings on the topic.

[crr003]

The point was you either have rules or don't (the last sentence).

 

I'm not comparing rules - just commenting that some are more keenly discussed/held up as absolute than others.

 

Sorry but I still don't see what problem is caused by a micro or 500ml container (for example)out in the middle of nowhere. Surely the cache hider can make a judgement on the impact to the area if the cache "goes bad". I can understand the importance of conforming to local laws, especially in the US, where it sounds like the plug could be pulled at any time on geocaching, but in other parts of the world putting a plastic box under a rock is not a big deal.

 

But if you've read my other comments on this in the vacation threads, you'll know I approve of rules. Say the poll is in favor of no vacation caches - again my question is 'what should be done about the existing ones?' Aren't there possibly hundreds of vacation caches out there waiting to bring the game/sport into disrepute?

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[+Markwell]

My son is not allowed to play in the street. My next door neighbor, who is a police officer, doesn't watch his son to tell him not to play in the street - and he constantly does.

 

The common sense rule is not to do it. Just because I see a whole bunch of other people breaking a rule is NOT justification for breaking it. Try selling that one to the cop that just pulled you over on the highway (“Honest officer, I was just going with the flow of traffic.”).

 

Likewise, just because there are a lot of pre-existing vacation caches doesn't mean you should place them.

 

No one is saying DON'T. We're saying (and this is an option you left off your poll) - go ahead and place, but find a local contact to maintain the cache first.

 

If you can't get back there to maintain it, what happens when it gets lost or plundered? How will you be able to verify its existence? And if it's not gone and you just archive it - it's no longer a cache, it's just litter.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

[+Centaur]

We created a cache while on vacation, it was a Virtual. Knowing that I would more then likely never passing that way again, I would not place a real one. The Virtual filled all the current requirements for one as well.

-Centaur

 

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Markwell:

 

If you can't get back there to maintain it, what happens when it gets lost or plundered? How will you be able to verify its existence? And if it's not gone and you just archive it - it's no longer a cache, it's just litter.

---

 

I've always wondered what happens to the notes people leave behind at those one time, "winner take all" caches. Does the cache owner go back and remove the notes?

 

I've seen many logs where people mentioned they left a note when they claimed such a cache, but never a note from a cache owner stating the notes were retrieved. Hmmm ...

 

Oh, and if you choose to place a vacation cache that you are unable to personally maintain, make sure you arrange for a local to take care of it ... or place only a virtual cache.

[Cape Cod Cacher]

I live in(on) a vacation area. I have nice places that most people can't find otherwise as caches. Don't screw it up with bad caches. I also have one a few miles away, I keep an eye on it, and locals do the same for me. Use your head if all else fails.

[+Alan2]

Geocaching.com is a private organization that decides the rules it wishes to publish. It decides. We don't. I have no moral or legal obligation to follow these "rules". However, I could be prevented for listing my cache if geocache.com decides to do that.

 

My point is this is not a democracy. If you want that then geocachers should set up a separate non-profit organization that could develope it's own rules. Or we can, as we already have, turn the rule making over to someone else who will balance trying to be "fair" against creating rules that may or may not effect their bottom line. (Sorry to bring this point up, but obviously it will have an effect on their decision making). Since non of us are on the board of directors, we can only suggest but cannot compel the rules as we want them.

 

Alan

[crr003]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Champions:

Do you beleive it should be OK to hide a cache on vacation, knowing you will not return to maintain it for a year or two, or maybe not at all.

 

Niall

---

 

80% of the community says NO! (Disappointing 30 votes out of 327 visits though)

 

I guess that's the end of vacation caches.

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

I guess that's the end of vacation caches.

---

 

Nah, people are going to place them, no matter what most of the Geocaching community thinks of the idea.

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

[+Alan2]

I don't understand how you can jump to this conclusion. 25 votes out of a community of 20,000 doesn't sound like 'the people have spoken". Remember that most people aren't involved in these forums like we are. Most people I would assume could care less what we think. And the fact is they may like the idea of vacation caches even though they haven't expressed their opinion. we're more caught up in the "rules" that the management of this web page has established. There's never been a formal vote of all of the membership. Even many of the people who read this thread haven't voted. The results are distorted and meaningless and not of sufficient coverage.

 

Alan

[crr003]

I was being a little sarcastic with my post - I mentioned the 30 NO voters and the 80% of the "geocaching community".......I should have put some emoticons in it.

 

The truth is that people will still put out vacation/non-maintained caches (and in the right place I think it's OK (IMHO)), just as people will put candy/sweets/cookies and all the other "illegal" items in caches (do a google search on geocaches and candy/sweets etc.), either because they don't know the "rules", or because they don't think they're applicable to their situation.

 

In the end, votes don't matter. Now if anyone thought these caches were damaging enough, the approval process could be tightened up, or the cache police could blow the whistle on any exisiting vacation caches out there and get them archived.

 

And we never get to this point, so I guess it's not that important in the overall scheme of things.

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[crr003]

I was being a little sarcastic with my post - I mentioned the 30 NO voters and the 80% of the "geocaching community".......I should have put some emoticons in it.

 

The truth is that people will still put out vacation/non-maintained caches (and in the right place I think it's OK (IMHO)), just as people will put candy/sweets/cookies and all the other "illegal" items in caches (do a google search on geocaches and candy/sweets etc.), either because they don't know the "rules", or because they don't think they're applicable to their situation.

 

In the end, votes don't matter. Now if anyone thought these caches were damaging enough, the approval process could be tightened up, or the cache police could blow the whistle on any exisiting vacation caches out there and get them archived.

 

And we never get to this point, so I guess it's not that important in the overall scheme of things.

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[HJS]

I tried to be first to a cache. Turns out the guy who placed it was a new cacher a couple of thousand miles from home. The decrypted hint was incomplete and misleading and the coordinates were 3 miles off. I found it because one of the clues got me closer than the 3 miles. I was mad and I won't do any more like that including the one named Vacation Cache in Virginia Beach.