Cache Post/delete

[+Mousetrap]

My daughter placed her first cache. In it she had a deck of cards with a specific back design. She instructed all finders to swap a card from another deck and to describe the back design. The card swapped had to be of the same rank and suit. No duplicates.

A cacher found her cache but did not swap a card. He just recorded the find. Since he did not follow the rules of the cache, she deleted his log. He was not happy about this and let her know same.

I have noticed that the rules on "locationless" caches are very explicit. If they are not followed to the letter, your log find could/will be deleted.

What do you people feel about this situation??

Was my daughters actions justified??

 

Thanks for any replies.

Edited August 3, 2004 by Mellie's Dad

[GrandpaCannon]

In the end it is always up to the cache owner. However, in another cache that I have done that is very similar to this "all hands on deck" the owner allows finds without card swapping so long as you don't take a card unless you leave a card. In my experience most physical caches only require signing the log to log the cache on line.

[+Stunod]

I think it's a silly rule to log the cache, but it is your cache and you make the rules.

[+Mopar]

This isn't a locationless cache though, is it?

 

While it is true that the cache owner can set the rules for logging a physical cache, most people feel that since they did in fact find the cache, they should get the found log. There generally is no rule about trading in a cache, and many cachers (especially those without kids) do not trade. Even at $1 a trade item, do you REALLY want $500-$1000 worth of little trinkets after a few years?

As the cache owner, you do have the write to delete any log you like, but be warned deleting legitimate found logs (they found it, they signed the log) may not make you very popular with your fellow cachers, and may cause all your local cachers to delete yours in retaliation. . Your risk to take.

[+Mopar]

Also want to mention that many cachers don't use the cache description. They just bulk download hundreds of waypoints into the GPS. If they happen to see a cache show up nearby in their travels, they go for it.

Many more (myself included) only look at the description for harder caches, or if I have already searched for the cache and not found it.

[+wimseyguy]

Like the chicken said-your cache, your rules. But LC's rules are usually specific about the picture. Hunters of LC's will always have a camera. Hunters of traditional caches don't usually carry playing cards. I might like to come find your cache, but why should I have to buy a new deck of cards, or trash one I already own?

That's why it's a silly requirement for logging a find IMHO.

[+Team Sand Dollar]

Your rule would exclude a lot of cachers frome finding your cache. How many cacher care a deck of cards for trading.

 

I do not carry trade items with me and generally just leave my signature item. Also I generally do not read all pages before getting near to the cache (I have them on my palm).

 

With this cache, after getting to the general area, I would find myself not allowed to find your cache based on the rules.

 

Team Sand Dollar

[+briansnat]

I thought the point of the sport was to find caches. The signature in a logbook is proof you found it. I know I'd be pretty miffed if I went through the trouble of finding a cache and had my log deleted because of some silly technicality. Yeah, I guess owners can force people go through all kinds of loops to claim a find, but I really don't see the point.

 

And as Mopar mentioned, a lot of people don't even see the cache page. I know I didn't for nearly half my finds. All I have is a waypoint on my GPS, so I'd have no idea whether I needed to swap a card, or do the The Watusi on top of the cache container in order to claim a find.

 

Locationless and virtual caches are different because the rules are there to provide proof you were where you claimed you were. The logbook in a real cache serves that function.

Edited August 3, 2004 by briansnat

[+Mastifflover]

If the finder chooses to play the little card game thing great!! If not he still "found" the cache. She should have let his log stand.

[+Ambrosia]

I have never heard of a themed cache that forced you to trade. Normally you allow anyone who doesn't carry that trade item to simply sign the log. That way everyone can participate in finding the cache, but don't mess up the trades when they don't have the trade item.

 

Obviously, you can request anything you want with your own cache, and enforce the rules that you have.

 

But just to let you know, you are probably going to have to delete a few logs, since probably no one else has seen a trade cache that deletes entries where the finder did not trade the specified item.

 

You will probably end up with a few people that are unhappy with you, and not very many logs for your cache.

 

I know that it is hard when people don't trade in themed caches. I have a theme cache that I think is pretty neat, but very few people trade. Most don't take anything, because they don't have something to trade with. I personally would LIKE them to take some of my items, though, and enjoy them.

[+El Diablo]

Simply put...she was wrong. The whole idea behind caching is to hunt and find the cache. If there is a little something else to do after you have found the cache...great. If the person who found the cache wants to do the side the....great. If that person is just in it for the hunt and nothing else...great.

 

I've found themed caches before, If I can't trade a theme item then I just sign the log book. You can't force people to trade in order to log a cache.

 

El Diablo

[+Team Perks]

I looked up the cache page and it's not very clear that trading a card is an ABSOLUTE requirement to log the find. Had I simply skimmed over the cache page, and didn't already know of this condition for logging the find, I would more than likely have overlooked it. Consequently, I don't blame the other cacher for being ticked off.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I have several caches that require you to do more than just sign the log book to claim the find--this one and this one, for example. But if the cacher can legitimately say it was unclear that he MUST trade a card to log the find, then I think it should the smiley should stand.

[+Mopar]

You can't force people to trade in order to log a cache.

Exactly. Besides, the person DID find the cache, and DID sign the log book. This game doesn't even REQUIRE person to log online, and there are plenty who don't.

Is she going to go out and rip his page out of the logbook too?

 

Also, in looking at the cache description, it really isn't that clear that a trade is required to log a find.

The cache is a small Rubbermaid container. The contents include: Logbook, pen, a geocaching notice, some bookmarks and a single deck of "Marlboro Man" playing cards with the exception of ONE card. We borrowed this idea from a cache we found in Colorado, "52 Card Pick-up" by slingshot. Theme: Trade 1 playing card. You take a Marlboro Man from my deck and replace it with a card from your deck of same suit and value...i.e. trade a 2 of clubs for the 2 of clubs. In Colorado we traded the Marlboro Man Queen of Spades for their Winnie the Pooh Queen of spades. Let's keep the deck complete. To log your find name the card you traded (must be one that hasn't already been swapped) and describe the back of the New Card, should be different than the original Marlboro Man deck. BE DISCREET VERY BUSY PLACE...

 

It does say " To log your find name the card you traded (must be one that hasn't already been swapped) and describe the back of the New Card", but since most people have probably never heard of a cacheowner deleting a find for not trading, I doubt any normal cacher would take that to mean you must trade or you can't log online.

[+El Diablo]

Another thought comes to mind. after 52 people have logged this cache...then what?

 

El Diablo

[+Mousetrap]

Thanks for the replies. I told daughter, after reading the replies, that I guess she should change the rules on her cache and give an option to trade or not.

OR cancel the cache all together and start over.

Then give the man credit for the find.

[+Mopar]

Thanks for the replies. I told daughter, after reading the replies, that I guess she should change the rules on her cache and give an option to trade or not.

OR cancel the cache all together and start over.

Then give the man credit for the find.

GREAT!

Even better, nice to see someone admit they might have made a mistake, all in a calm and reasonable manner, rather then blow up and quit. Good luck with the cache!

Edited August 3, 2004 by Mopar

[+wimseyguy]

<<Snip>>I thought the point of the sport was to find caches. The signature in a logbook is proof you found it.  I know I'd be pretty miffed if I went through the trouble of finding a cache and had my log deleted because of some silly technicality. All I have is a waypoint on my GPS, so I'd have no idea whether I needed to swap a card, or

do the The Watusi on top of the cache container in order to claim a find.

 

Locationless and virtual caches are different because the rules are there to provide proof you were where you claimed you were.  The logbook in a real cache serves that function.<<snip>>

Man if they ever re-open LC's, there's one I will have to submit. I gotta see a picture of this .... or maybe not?

PS will you please do it with a mouthful of squid too?

edited to be even sillier

Edited August 3, 2004 by wimseyguy

[+El Diablo]

Thanks for the replies. I told daughter, after reading the replies, that I guess she should change the rules on her cache and give an option to trade or not.

OR cancel the cache all together and start over.

Then give the man credit for the find.

Change the rules...yes. Cancel it...no. It sounds like a fun cache and she will get plenty of takers.

 

El Diablo

[+Crouching Hiker, Hidden Cache]

Related topic, I have to wonder if this is why "Lucky Lotto" in NJ hasn't logged even an FTF after over 2 weeks in the field. It states to bring two NJ lottery tickets to the cache itself, and take one away. While it doesn't explicitly state its a requirement, I know its personally lessened my motivation to go find it. I rarely bring trade items, and one that requires specific items is, to me, just a hassle and misses the point of caching in my opinion.

[+Mopar]

Related topic, I have to wonder if this is why "Lucky Lotto" in NJ hasn't logged even an FTF after over 2 weeks in the field. It states to bring two NJ lottery tickets to the cache itself, and take one away. While it doesn't explicitly state its a requirement, I know its personally lessened my motivation to go find it. I rarely bring trade items, and one that requires specific items is, to me, just a hassle and misses the point of caching in my opinion.

More specifically, it's a relatively unknown cacher with a 3/3.5 multicache that says

Take one lottery ticket out of cache number three, for you to keep and put two of your lottery tickets in. As the number of tickets increase in the cache I will take them out and hide them in a bonus cache.

The logging requirements would make me a bit uneasy, and the 3/3.5 multicache will limit the number of cachers anyway.

[+Prime Suspect]

Another thought comes to mind. after 52 people have logged this cache...then what?

 

El Diablo

And what's a trader supposed to do with their now-ruined deck of cards?

[+Divine]

Nice to hear that the problem got solved. I go with the consensus and say if you find the cache and sign the log there you have the right to log a find in the web too.

 

Actually, this is a fast growing issue in my neck of woods nowadays. We have couple of those breeder caches around here, which basically means you have to hide your own cache of certain kind according to certain rules given by the breeder hider before you can log your find on the breeder cache.

 

Example 1. A railway station cache: You may log the find only after you've created another cache close to another railway station (not further than 250 m) with the words railway station in the cache name. Example 2. A police station cache: You may log the find only after you've created another cache close to another police station. (Please don't go the terrorism aspect now, it's not an issue here.) Example 3. Historical place. You may log the find only after you've created another cache at some place of historical interest and you have to mention and describe it in the cache page.

 

The problem with examples 1. and 2. is that there are a limited amount of police and railway stations. Especially in those areas where peope frequent. What if we 'run out' of police or railway stations, and there is not a single one withing 300 km? You can't log a find. It's silly if you ask me. I understand that certain objects of some locationless caches can 'run out'; at some point there will be no more known meteor craters to log, but to me LCs are a different game anyway, which I don't play. If I find a hidden container, I think I'm entitled to log a find to it. Of course, it's hider's rules, but I already know some cachers, who won't search those breeder caches, because for one reason or another, they don't want to hide their own caches. And to be honest, not nearly all of those cache larvas are that cool.

 

Now, with the example 3. the problem is not that big, since the definition of 'a historical place' can be quite wide. Still, you have to establish a new cache in order to be allowed to log a find, which is not the essence of geocaching as I see it. (I understand naturally that opinions differ.)

 

The same goes with webcam caches lately. First it was just showing your GPSr at the camera. Nowadays you have to stand in an 'X position', 'do something silly' or make a poster of your nickname to show it in the camera before you may log a 'find'.

 

I'm seriously considering hiding a cache where you must do following things before you're entitled to a find log:

- Sing I am the Walrus by The Beatles when opening the container lid, and send a .wav or .mp3 file of it to me. It must be the logger who sings and I'll delete the log if it's sung out of tune.

- Jump on one foot (left or right, but you can't change the foot on the way, otherwise the log will be deleted) and make a figure of '8' on a nearby field and record the track with your GPSr. Take a photo of the GPSr screen with the figure visible in the track and post it with your log.

- Take a mugshot of yourself with the cache container visible in the picture and Photoshop the picture so that you'll have similar horns as in my avatar.

- Write a three page essay of this experience and email it to me. Only grammatically correct ones give the right to log a find.

 

Hmm... should I add the watusi too?

Edited August 3, 2004 by Divine

[Team Smoke]

This is a bit off topic, but I need some info. How do you delete a posting off of your cache's web page? I have all of the options in the upper right corner of the screen, edit cache, post a note, etc., but there is not an option to delete a post. Do I have to be a premium member to have that option?

Thanks.

Edited August 3, 2004 by Team Smoke

[+Team Perks]

This is a bit off topic, but I need some info. How do you delete a posting off of your cache's web page? I have all of the options in the upper right corner of the screen, edit cache, post a note, etc., but there is not an option to delete a post. Do I have to be a premium member to have that option?

Thanks.

Click on "View this log on a separate page" under the log you wish to delete. Then you have the option to delete or encrypt it.

[Team Smoke]

Team PerkyPerks,

 

Thank you very much for the help. I would have never figured that out!

[+Crouching Hiker, Hidden Cache]

The logging requirements would make me a bit uneasy, and the 3/3.5 multicache will limit the number of cachers anyway.

After looking at the cache again, now I remember the specific source of my apathy, it states:

 

" You will need to bring two NJ scrach-off lottery tickets with you to play, also need a pencil and paper."

 

If he substituted "may like" for "need", I would feel less imposed upon. For me its really just that, the fact that its a beginner's cache with a higher rating wouldn't normally deter me.

[+Gorak]

I have never heard of a themed cache that forced you to trade.  Normally you allow anyone who doesn't carry that trade item to simply sign the log.  That way everyone can participate in finding the cache, but don't mess up the trades when they don't have the trade item.

You mean like these ones?

 

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 40s theme cache

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 50s theme cache

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 60s theme cache

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 70s theme cache

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 80s theme cache

Bring a penny 4 your thoughts 90s theme cache

 

You should have seen the ca-ca fly when someone didn't leave the proper penny!

 

Seriously, though, one should not be required to make a trade in keeping with a particular theme in order to log the cache as a find.