Captain Chaoss Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I finally clued in to something recently when filling out Clayjars "Geocache Rating System". Under trail, the catagory is offered: Trail? What trail? There is no real trail. Wheels are out. May be following a stream bed or be very rocky. Suddenly, childhood memories of walking stream beds to otherwise unreachable spots came, well, "flooding" back. Suddenly, I'm finding all kinds of new places to hide caches. My first "stream cache" Cache-cading Up had its 1st visitor yesterday, and this morning on my way home from work, I definitely found my next one. The exposed bedrock, tumbled boulders, felled trees, all make for a challenging, scenic road to an eventual hiding place for a cache. I'm loving it ! Who else is taking advantage of streams for your hides ? Quote Link to comment
+Milbank Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Does anyone ever own a stream? Can a stream be private property? I'm just wondering if a stream or river runs through private property, but you can enter the stream from a public road or park is it ok to walk down the stream even were it goes through the private property? Sounds like you found a great spot. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I guess a lot of people do it because I've found a number of caches that required you follow a stream bed to the cache, or at least the stream bed was the easiest approach. Quote Link to comment
madratdan Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Does anyone ever own a stream?Can a stream be private property? I'm just wondering if a stream or river runs through private property, but you can enter the stream from a public road or park is it ok to walk down the stream even were it goes through the private property? Sounds like you found a great spot. It depends on what state you are in. Each state seems to look at this situation differently and there is no universal rule. For example, in Colorado, you may own the stream bed, but not the water that flows through it. So as long as you stay in your boat and not hit any rocks, you are not tresspassing. Cache Softly, Dan Quote Link to comment
+Milbank Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 It depends on what state you are in. Each state seems to look at this situation differently and there is no universal rule. How could I find out about the rules for the state of South Dakota? Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I recently discovered that as well and have taken full advantage of it. I haven't gotten quite as many hits but those who do find them really enjoy them. Lotus Lake Mayan Adventure Quote Link to comment
+Gonzo-YT Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 (edited) IMHO, putting a cache in a stream is not a good idea. I don't know about your area, but here in the Yukon a good-sized stream or creek means that you're almost certainly going to have people tramping through areas where fish spawn. Also, what was a small trickle of water in June could be a raging torrent in August, and you might be putting someone in an unsafe situation. Something else that occurred to me -- what do you do when the stream freezes solid in the winter? Chip the cache out? At the very least, the freezing and thawing would almost certainly harm the cache. Regards, Anthony Edited August 3, 2004 by Gonzo-YT Quote Link to comment
+2Est8Attys Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 How could I find out about the rules for the state of South Dakota? Not my area of expertise, but you may try a google search for "riparian rights" and "south dakota". A short summary of the issue (but not an answer to your exact question) is here Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 IMHO, putting a cache in a stream is not a good idea. I don't know about your area, but here in the Yukon a good-sized stream or creek means that you're almost certainly going to have people tramping through areas where fish spawn. Also, what was a small trickle of water in June could be a raging torrent in August, and you might be putting someone in an unsafe situation. Something else that occurred to me -- what do you do when the stream freezes solid in the winter? Chip the cache out? At the very least, the freezing and thawing would almost certainly harm the cache. Regards, Anthony Not sure about other areas but here the current doesn't change all that much in the rivers and streams. Plus, even in area's where it did, you assume all risks associated with geocahing. If you don't know how to negotiate a raging torrent then you shouldn't try for that cache. In regard to the freezing water, the ones I hid you had to access them via river or stream but the caches themselves were on slightly higher ground. Quote Link to comment
+BlackBuck Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 (edited) sewer ratPeople seem to like this one! Edited August 3, 2004 by blackbuck Quote Link to comment
madratdan Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 (edited) After a google search for water right of ways for South Dakota, I found this link. http://www.nationalrivers.org/states/sd-law.htm Hope this helps explain it better. Dan Edit note: I found this artical that shows my statement is not truely correct about river access being different from state to state. Misconception: Public ownership of physically navigable rivers varies from state to state, as do the public's rights to canoe, kayak, raft, walk along, and otherwise visit such rivers. Fact: Public ownership of physically navigable rivers is the same in all states. It's a U.S. Supreme Court standard, and it includes those rivers that are physically navigabale by canoe, kayak, and raft. The public's right to visit additional non-navigable streams (those too small for even canoes, kayaks, and rafts) does vary from state to state, but this variation only applies to those small streams. It is a cut and paste from this link. http://www.nationalrivers.org/us-law-facts.htm Sorry for the misinformation. Dan Edited August 3, 2004 by madratdan Quote Link to comment
+TeamK-9 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 While kayaking on a local small creek, a friend managed to find himself in the middle of an amusement park that the creek went through. Security wasn't happy, but they let him through as long as he agreed to take his kayak out and portage, they even provided him a golfcart and driver to take him to the far boundary of the park.. Anyway, back on topic, I love creekwalking. It's sort of a fun pastime that I like to take part in when I find the perfect creek. The problem however is finding one that works just right. Cause I mean the water can't be so deep that a person could canoe it, but it can't be so shallow that you'd stay dry in tennis shoes. Another problem I'd think you might run into would be getting back to your car afterwards. Unless you planned on just walking back up the creek, you'd need some way to get the person back to there parking place, and if there's a trail they can use, who's to say that they won't just walk the trail in? But all in all, it's an awesome idea and I wish I could use it around here, I just don't know where I could... Quote Link to comment
+gebu Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I have two hides that can be only reached by creekwalking and boulderhopping. Number one is this. I didn't translate the cachepage yet (foreign visitors are very rare in this part of the country). It's just below a very narrow gorge and can be reached from below by a somewhat challenging hike, or from above by canyoning. Number two is easier. Some boulderhopping and a few creekcrossings are everything you need to reach the cache. I might try this one tomorrow - only a 1.5h drive for a FTF Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 IMHO, putting a cache in a stream is not a good idea. I don't know about your area, but here in the Yukon a good-sized stream or creek means that you're almost certainly going to have people tramping through areas where fish spawn. Also, what was a small trickle of water in June could be a raging torrent in August, and you might be putting someone in an unsafe situation. Something else that occurred to me -- what do you do when the stream freezes solid in the winter? Chip the cache out? At the very least, the freezing and thawing would almost certainly harm the cache. Regards, Anthony Guess I should clarify: the cache itself isn't in the stream, subject to freezing. The stream itself is the road through the woods. The cache is hidden away from the water. The streams I'm using are not fishing streams, they are more like natures storm ditches. They are even mostly dry during the dry season ( which we don't seem to have anymore ) Some great scenery with them, and most have a wide berm where they cross the road, so parking is taken care of. And personally, I think if someone isn't smart enough to stay out of a flooded stream, natural selection CAN improve the gene pool. Around here, there are long stretches of the year when many caches are inaccessible to all but the most foolhardy/daring/adventurous searchers. the cache just sits and waits for the thaw, just like the trees and the rest of nature. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 I have two hides that can be only reached by creekwalking and boulderhopping. Number one is this. I didn't translate the cachepage yet (foreign visitors are very rare in this part of the country). It's just below a very narrow gorge and can be reached from below by a somewhat challenging hike, or from above by canyoning. Number two is easier. Some boulderhopping and a few creekcrossings are everything you need to reach the cache. I might try this one tomorrow - only a 1.5h drive for a FTF man, I wanna come to Austria caching ! Those are some awesome caches. But, I have to ask, what the HECK is that thing in your Avatar. I hope thats been photo-shopped ! Quote Link to comment
+Mr. 0 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Does anyone ever own a stream?Can a stream be private property? I'm just wondering if a stream or river runs through private property, but you can enter the stream from a public road or park is it ok to walk down the stream even were it goes through the private property? Sounds like you found a great spot. It depends on what state you are in. Each state seems to look at this situation differently and there is no universal rule. For example, in Colorado, you may own the stream bed, but not the water that flows through it. So as long as you stay in your boat and not hit any rocks, you are not tresspassing. Cache Softly, Dan I just wanted to add my agreeance to this. This is pretty much right, and like was stated applies to every state. The actual water is public property, but the land under the water is most likely private. The Scioto River runs through my backyard. We own 3/4 of the land under the river. The neighbors behind us own the other 1/4 (used to be about 1/2 and 1/2, but the river has shifted over the years). The state "owns" the river. It's created a big problem because we sit right on a bend in the river, and the state's river is eroding our land. They can't do anything about it because our land is private property, and it's illegal for us to do anything to change the course of the water, since we don't own it. I'm only pointing this out to illustrate how strange the ownership rights are concerning a body of water. If the creek falls in a park or something, then there should be no problem, as long as the park allows one to wander off trail. The park would own the land and the state would own the water. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 I recently discovered that as well and have taken full advantage of it. I haven't gotten quite as many hits but those who do find them really enjoy them. Lotus Lake Mayan Adventure i finally looked at those caches, and those are great. Hope you don't mind, I'd like to mimic your idea on the Myan adventure for this area as well. Quote Link to comment
+gebu Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 man, I wanna come to Austria caching ! Those are some awesome caches. But, I have to ask, what the HECK is that thing in your Avatar. I hope thats been photo-shopped ! It's a wet cat. Natures greates comedic creation as some other forum members have found out as well The Kotla Cache has been found and it was a great hike (flights to Austria are only 400-500 Euros right now ) I might borrow your idea with putting parts of the cache coordinates along the creekbed for one of my next caches. I have a place in mind that is way to narrow for getting any satellite reception. Quote Link to comment
+SamLowrey Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Does anyone ever own a stream?Can a stream be private property? I'm just wondering if a stream or river runs through private property, but you can enter the stream from a public road or park is it ok to walk down the stream even were it goes through the private property? Sounds like you found a great spot. Can I pee on your property and call it a "stream." Suddenly the behavior of dogs marking territory seem more like subtle legal maneuvers. This will probably make even less sense when I read it tomorrow after a good night's sleep. Quote Link to comment
+Team Maximus Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 There are several caches around here that use this concept. Two of my favorites are Ka-Ho-Nee Falls and Wahe Ka-Ho-Nee. These aren't for the faint of heart but if your in for a real adventure these are simply awesome. Check out some of the many pics and logs on the cache pages, they are great. Quote Link to comment
+fly46 Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 IMHO, putting a cache in a stream is not a good idea. I don't know about your area, but here in the Yukon a good-sized stream or creek means that you're almost certainly going to have people tramping through areas where fish spawn. Also, what was a small trickle of water in June could be a raging torrent in August, and you might be putting someone in an unsafe situation. Something else that occurred to me -- what do you do when the stream freezes solid in the winter? Chip the cache out? At the very least, the freezing and thawing would almost certainly harm the cache. Regards, Anthony IMHO - a creek isn't some massive body of water large enough for most fish to procreate in. Then again, The Ashtabula "River" often has so little water that I can stand in it and it doesn't come up to my knees. (Ironically Ashtabula means river of many fish, and I've never seen a fish in the Ashtabula river... and isn't the river's name a bit redundant? it's like saying ATM Machine.... ) Quote Link to comment
+Gonzo-YT Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 IMHO - a creek isn't some massive body of water large enough for most fish to procreate in. For sure, it all depends on what you call a "creek." In my area, we basically call them rivers or creeks -- maybe the creeks I'm talking about would be "streams" to others. We have a lot of creeks that are full of fish. In particular, arctic grayling and certain species of salmon spawn in small creeks, many of which are quite small -- you could easily walk through them. Salmon fry will come out of the creeks into the larger drainages and eventually reach the ocean, until they are large enough to come back and spawn. Spawning areas are usually shallow gravel areas with minimal current -- ideal for walking, except you could be stepping on thousands of fish eggs. (Several species of trout are also commonly found in small creeks, although IIRC they breed in the lakes). That said, it sounds like people were talking about things like runoff creeks coming down a mountain. We've got lots of those too, and in the absence of trails they make really good routes for finding your way up a mountain. Depending on the time of year and the rate the snow/ice is melting, these creeks can range from bone-dry to quite full. As long as you're sure you're not putting people into a sensitive area, I agree it would be fun to tromp up a creek looking for a cache. Quote Link to comment
+art begotti Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 my only cache is in a stream.... well, i guess it's bigger than a stream, but still smaller than a creek... who cares. i love walking in water. thats the long and short of it. (condensed version.) Quote Link to comment
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