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Pc Vs. Dedicated Gps Receiver?

Blue Contrails
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Blue Contrails

Blue Contrails

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Well I've been using the WAAS capable Delorme Earthmate with Street Atlas on a PC and it works well when it comes to position updates on the screen and when it pans across from one grid to another. I don't have a stand alone GPSr like say a Garmin 60 to compare the two setups, but I've read an article a while back that compared PC based GPS systems and standalone receivers; The author concluded that a standalone receiver is noticeably slower when it comes to functions like zoom in, zoom out, pan and toggle between different views. This was one of the cons mentioned apart of course of the smaller screen size and memory. I'm contimplating purchasing a car mount for my laptop, but I wanted to hear what others' experience been like before I do so. Standalone GPSr have lots of pros, but I mentioned some cons to make a point. They're both great devices though.

Edited by Blue Contrails
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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

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Thanks, your question is going to take help from someone who knows more about this than I do. My one and only idea is that a GPS mean to be attached to a PC may update via the cable interface more often than than a handhelf GPS like the Garmin. You would need to look at the update rate in the specs for the GPS units you are comparing. That's just a WAG though.

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Overland1

Overland1

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Both have their purpose and will excel at some things more than the other. The PC laptop will likely do many display things faster, or at least seemingly so, but does not have to pan as often.

 

I use the EarthMate for long trips in the Jeep, and the Vista for short trips as well as on foot, bicycle, and motorcycle (OK, OK, I always bring the Vista along, even when the EarthMate is running :tired: ). The other differences may be swayed by the fact that the newer GPS receivers (60-CS, etc.) are probably faster than my Vista :tired: .

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DBleess

+DBleess

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Also depends on the setup you're comparing.

 

A top end 2-3 ghz laptop running XP, DeLorme TopoUSA 5, a 256 meg video card, a 14"+ screen and 1gb of system memory is going to FAR outperform the display on any recreational handheld GPS. With a serial connection you're going to get probably a 9600 connection which is adequate to feed Delorme products at least a one-per-second position update that the GPS uses in it's display. USB will be faster, but I don't think DeLorme supports USB yet.

 

The data quality of TopoUSA 5, and a good laptop's screen size make it a wonderful setup enhancement for road travel -compared to the 2x3" screen on the GPS and its ratty basemap. For the "endgame" (last half mile) to the cache, you rarely need the data (though some topo is nice from time to time, it can be studied in the car or at home before wallking off into the woods)

 

An old 50 mhz laptop struggling to run win98 and an ancient version of Street atlas, isn't going to be worth the time.

 

http://members.cox.net/dmbleess/geocache/benchmarks.htm

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flir67

flir67

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my friend got the navman gps model for his laptop. he's using ms streets and trips and it updates very fast but he's bound by it in the car and won't take it out on foot. plus it doesn't give all the info that a held hand would display at once.. my magellan sportrack updates slower but it really depends on your situation. I use mine for driving all the time and its perfect for me. I just zoom out to see the streets ahead when I need too.

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bblhed

+bblhed

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Posted

I started out caching using a delorme Earthmate hooked to a palm III and I gota tell you, I love my etrex! I have never looked back. I can hook the etrex to the palm for that old school feel, but there is nothing like a GPSr in the palm of your hand. If I want map detail I can hook the etrex to the palm and it pulls to 3D as soon as the connection is made. The etrex fires up faster, sets waypoints faster, and has a better antent than the earthmate antena. I don't have TOPO for the palm yet, but I am going to order it when Street atlas 2005 comes out. The main reason I am doing that is so that I can look at the trail map and be sure I am going the best way wile out in the woods.

 

IMHO if you want to be an all weather cacher (I cache in the rain) you need a handheld. as long as you study your maps before you get out on the trail and make good notes you don't need to be hauling 8 pounds of laptop cables and battery up a trail with you. That is just space and weight you can fill with water insted.

 

Go online and order a $100 all in one GPSr, get a good set of paper maps, a drawing compas, a map scale ruler, and a magnetic compas. with the room you save you can cary 2 liters of water (4.4 lbs), a good first aid kit, a heavy over shirt, and a few other things that can save your life. You will probably never read a story about someone having their life saved because they had a laptop with them on the trail, but the items I mentioned except the GPSr have been trail staples for longer than any person geocaching has been alive. My oppion, a laptop is useless junk that is better off at home or in the trunk of the car.

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Kfam

+Kfam

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Posted

The laptop will smoke all the others hands down for everything but portability. You have a much bigger screen as well as more processing power and room for many applications. You can hook up most any GPS to it and follow along in real time.

It's nice to have Streets&trips, StreetAtlas, NGTopo!, Topo5, USAPhotomaps, GSAK, PQs, saved web pages...etc, in the car with you.

I've set these up for cache machines and road trips and the map displays and additional information can't be beat.

 

The biggest problem is having to switch protocols between some of the programs.

That and the uneasy feeling about leaving all that in the car while parked at a trailhead. You certainly won't want to carry it on a trail with you.

 

The worst set-up is the real-time maps on a handheld pocketPC. The handheld is great for reading your GPX files using sonar but the maps don't move very well. I also wished I could find a PPC waypoint management tool that will upload to the GPS.

 

The best all-around and portable piece of equipment I've had so far has been the new GPSmap 60CS. It tracks nicely on the screen and holds more than enough waypoints and information. The panning is slower than a laptop and the zoom seems faster. It also recalculates a route faster than the laptop if you take a wrong turn and is more "user friendly".

 

It seems to me that no matter what you use, the GPS signal only fires once per second, and none will refresh any faster than that.

 

These are just my experiences with the things I've tried.

Hope it helps

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DBleess

+DBleess

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Posted (edited)

Delorme's page says 60C USB doesn't work w topo5.

http://forum.delorme.com/viewforum.php?f=3...dde65cac0576905

 

There's no patches or updates here either:

http://www.delorme.com/support/topousa/topo.asp

 

I've got serial up and running so it's no real biggie, but others might disagree.

 

:smile:

 

http://members.cox.net/dmbleess/geocache/benchmarks.htm

Edited by DBleess
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Blue Contrails

Blue Contrails

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I'm going to be as direct and as blunt to get my point across to you because you seem like the kind of person who can't take a hint.

 

Start posting detailed instructions? OK why don't you go boss someone else?

I always assume that I'm dealing with competent adults who know how to look up stuff. You're the one going off topic with YOUR setup and TOPO maps and trying to figure out how to work YOUR Garmin in a thread that asks about comparisons.

I'm trying to be helpful in my own way. If you don't like it you can go and find help somewhere else. But, from the big baby talk I see here I understand why you're getting so frustrated.

 

No where in your OP did you mention that the "top end ........" that's going to "outperform" any GPS receiver......was yours. I find out later when you posted about the problem you're having. All I see is someone bragging about some setup they've got and then complaining when they can't get it to work and then bossing some guy you just met online 2 seconds ago about how to get YOUR GPS to work with YOUR top end computer.

 

I hope all this is sinking in, because buddy, I'm not your girlfriend you got that?

Go whine someplace else.

Edited by Blue Contrails
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DBleess

+DBleess

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Posted (edited)

asbestos anyone?

 

BC posted:

I'm going to be as direct and as blunt

That's one way of putting it.

He would have been more accurate by saying he was "going to be a braying donkey (or mule, or that OTHER one)"

 

;) So, I need to make some clarifications.

 

BC asked about (PC/Delorme/generic GPS) vs 60C, I have run both and plan to eventually run PC/Delorme/60C.

 

http://www.delorme.com/software.htm

http://www.garmin.com/outdoor/compare.jsp

 

My 60C information is meant to help not just him (why bother?) but others who may have questions about that config and its good qualities or problems in relation to the original question. Finding a way to interface the 60C in various ways to Delorme software is relevant to that end for the Garmin owners who come here on a keyword search like I did originally.

 

BC posted:

No where in your OP did you mention that the top end [setup] that's going to "outperform" [display rates on] any GPS receiver......was yours.

The good setup described in my original post ISN'T mine (yet). It is merely one I'd like to do eventually. It is a progression from my last setup:

 

I had my old Garmin 48 serial interfaced to a NEC Versa 50mhz laptop running Windoze 98 and Streetatlas 8. (Figure about 2000-2002 map data) That old laptop booted and loaded software very slowly, but once up and running -about 10 minutes later, it was a VERY responsive moving map setup. Biggest problem was that the SA rev8 map / road data was aging quickly and the wimpy NEC couldn't handle any newer versions of Delorme's PC map products (Street Atlas 2003 and newer, Topo USA 5, etc) like my desktop could.

 

BC posted:

All I see is someone bragging about some setup they've got and then complaining when they can't get it to work and then bossing some guy you just met online 2 seconds ago about how to get YOUR GPS to work with YOUR top end computer.

BC, didn't read the website I attached. I don't own what he ASSUMED I own. The config information is important to the post in that it shows where my experience comes from and where it is leading me to in the future. It also helps support the validity of the recommendations that I made. So, no need for him to act all jealous, after all, he/she/it is NOT my girlfriend. *WHEW*

 

I also haven't "met" BC, and now I'm sure that I really don't want to. It only took 2 seconds for me to know that.

 

As I said in my original post, this type of enhanced top-end setup -receiving gps data from any handheld GPS via serial or a usb/serial converter at typical serial speeds, (much slower than a USB 2.0 data rate) should impress anyone for map display size, clarity, and performance when compared to only using any standalone handheld on the market. This is based on my experience with the fairly primitive older equipment I had been using. You can substitute lesser equipment down to the requirements of the oldest version of the software you are willing to be limited to.

 

As far as interfacing a Delorme Earthmate GPS via usb, that doesn't interest me, any information doing so shouldn't be directed to me. I assumed in one reply that BC was trying to tell me that I was wrong (not unheard of) and the **60C** could be interfaced to Delorme Software via USB. (It can't, I've done the research. -I didn't realize he was talking about the nearly worthless Earthmate)

 

The earthmate is not a standalone handheld gps, it has no display. You need a laptop (automotive navigation) or PDA (handheld navigation) to actually use the data it provides.

 

http://www.delorme.com/earthmate/

 

PDA's are expensive enough without paying for one that is outdoor waterproof / durability rated, and has a large enough battery capacity for constant GPS operations.

 

That meant for me that I would need a true outdoor handheld so I bought the latest descendant of my old GPS 48 - the GPSMAP 60C which is both serial and USB capable. BUT, 60C only comes boxed with the USB cable, which will be a problem for people that want to interface it to Delorme products without one of two things.

 

A serial cable or

A USB/Serial converter of some sort

 

I already owned a serial cable from my days of using the GPS 48 so that wasn't a problem for me. I have no operational use problems with my 60C worth "whining" about, and with a proper laptop, it would blow away the performance of what was already a good former setup of mine. Used as a standalone GPS, 60C has more durability and features than what I had.

 

Now, on to the "whining". I do have one minor convenience issue with the 60C hooked to Delorme software on my desktop PC. Since it would also apply indirectly to using it interfaced with Delorme on a laptop I need to mention it.

 

The 60C can only speak via one data format at a time. You can hook it up via serial or you can hook it up via USB, but not both at once. I'm primarily using two software packages with the GPS interfaced to the PC.

 

1. ExpertGPS waypoint management software (Better than EasyGPS but fundamentally the same)

http://www.easygps.com/

http://www.expertgps.com/

 

2. Delorme's Topo USA 5.0 graphical map and waypoint display software.

 

The current version of Expert / EasyGPS is written to be Garmin USB compatible so that when I transfer waypoint datasets to/from my GPS it exchanges FAST. This is nice since my pocket queries are around 450 waypoints now. It is also backwards compatible to be serial (slower) capable.

 

Delorme is only serial compatible. So when I xfer waypoint data to plot them on the maps there, it is a slower process. It also means I have to swap cables back and forth if I want to use USB for part of the transfer. If I don't want to swap cables, I have to do everything at the slower serial rates.

 

Hooked to a laptop, Delorme can also talk to the GPS and plot continuous location, track data, and satellite information etc. overlaid on the PC map display. Again, this has to currently be done via a serial connection -which is a cable inconvenience issue, but not really a performance problem.

 

For the people who just bought their 60C and want to do the same but don't have a serial cable yet, they find themselves having to buy one of those or a serial-USB converter.

 

Do I think this is worth whining about? No, because I have a serial cable.

 

Would it be more convenient if Delorme added Garmin USB functionality? Heck yeah!

 

Could it be important information to someone who is looking for information to pick a new GPS? Could be. It would be inconsiderate of me to omit outlining what I know.

 

for BC:

Go soak your head flame-boy, you have an attitude problem. I've tried to contribute more useful, helpful and complete information to these forums than you have, run a username / post search if you doubt it:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=Search&f=11

 

:ph34r:

 

BC posted:

I'm trying to be helpful in my own way.

Find a new way. Your "It's possible -go find it yourself" attitude is worthless and unappreciated here. If you have something to contribute, then do it, contribute, don't hint at it. A little clarification on your part would have changed my response to this completely:

 

BC posted:

Mine worked after I downloaded all the updates from Delorme, including receiver and software updates. One of the downloads was a fix, if you will, for the USB connection.

Idiot me was assuming you were trying to respond by helping with my setup since the message was adressing me. How silly of me to assume that. I didn't realize you were talking about the Earthmate GPS and not Street Atlas or Topo USA or a 60C.

 

BC posted:

I hope all this is sinking in

ditto

 

If you want to flame me, take it offline. MY contact information is READILY available. If you can't do it with at least a little style and contribute something in the process, then it doesn't belong here.

 

flame-off

 

:smile:

 

http://members.cox.net/dmbleess/geocache/benchmarks.htm

Edited by DBleess
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Searching_ut

+Searching_ut

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For the PC type functions, panning, route calculation, display size and amount of detail available etc. you can get faster and smoother operation from a PC or PocketPC type unit, depending on processor type, software etc. For the most part, it's also easier to enter data into a computer, thus I generally use my computer to enter waypoint data into, then download to a stand alone unit.

 

I personally use a Pocket PC with a CF Flash GPS unit and mapopolis software for all of my road navigation. You get the voice commands, larger display and all the other advantages of the computer vs the stand alone unit. The second I step out of the vehicle however, I take and use a stand alone unit. They're tougher, weather resistant and generally set up to work better one handed, and for handheld type use like geocaching.

 

Rather than buy a mouse, CF, or bluetooth unit for your laptop/PocketPC, you can also use a stand alone unit to provide the computer position data. One disadvantage to this setup is the additional wiring needed. Most units seem to send out the full NMEA datastream at one second intervals, so you probably won't notice any significant position lags on your computer display vs what you would get with a CF unit. (Unless you use a program like microsoft streets which is slow and appears to have a built in delay) The etrex series evidently only exports the full NMEA sentence at 2 second intervals from my experience however, so you might find the position lag a little to much using it.

 

For more information on this sort of setup, you might want to check out www.gpspassion.com

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