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Commercial Content On Cache Pages


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I know the rules, here it is below for everyone else:

 

Geocaching is a quasi-family sport. I've always thought the sports has two main goals when placing a cache. To get the family together and get outdoors having some fun looking for hidden treasure (ok, so no one leaves cool things anymore) and to get you to areas you may never have gone to if it wasn't for a geocache.

 

The problem I have is with this rule below, it seems it needs to be more grey than black & white. I have several caches that are at cool places that list the business or place and have links and tell you about what's there. I don't think I'm promoting the place as much as I'm wanting others to enjoy the location and the cache as much as I do.

 

Recently some caches, not mine, have been archived because of this so-called commercial content. Basically just giving a little info about the business on the property where the caches resides.

 

I guess I feel if you have no ties to the business and you post some info about it to excite other cachers to get them there in the first place what's the big hoopla about? Well all know this sport has become very commercial lately. Others thoughts?

 

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Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

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This is only a suggestion and no flame intended, but you might try getting over it. Since you obviously know the rules (and the rule in question appears to relate to authorized use of this website,) you should either go along with it or list your caches elsewhere. It's not so complicated, really.

Don't be so harsh, here. You didn't quite listen to what the OP said - the caches that were archived were not his. He is just bringing up a point to discuss.

 

 

I agree that we should not have commercial caches, but that if you are not offiliated to the commercial site, and do not make the page commercial, that it should be fine.

 

We have a cache in Wenatchee that could be construed as commercial, I guess. It is in a memorial-type park that is located next to a Soda Fountain. The cache page discusses the fountain, and even suggests you get something refreshing at it. I consider this more historical than commercial, though. The Soda Fountain has been a landmark in Wenatchee for the better part of a century, and fountains are a dying breed.

 

The cache is very poplular with tourists, and they enjoy buying a soda, and the people that work at the fountain love giving out hints to the cachers. I get tickled watching them, and they tell me all their stories of cachers from out of town that they have met.

 

I really think it is just how it is presented, and if it has historical or tourism interest, so it is not a straight commercial cache that would put cachers off from the outset.

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i'm all for caches at commercial locations. i am NOT for caches that exist for the purpose of advertising.

 

sometimes it's hard to categorize these things.

 

i am usually pleased when somebody who knows the territory directs my attention to a good place to eat, or an interesting historical location, or a good local business in which i might be interested.

 

i downright resent it if i find a cache whose main purpose appears to be to get me to notice the advertising.

 

i have seen some caches lately that are placed on the grounds of cross country ski areas. you are not obliged to pay a trail fee to hunt the cache, which is generous of the landowners.

 

since i gladly pay admission at publicly owned parks to hunt caches, i'm not sure why i shouldn't pay admission at privately owned areas either. the way i look at it, private ownership undeveloped land is a thing that should be encouraged. i regularly patronize a ski area that's on land that family has owned for a couple hundred years. it would be much more economical for them to close shop and sell to developers who are VERY interested in putting condos there. a green area is a green area, whether the price of my admission goes to a municipality or to the landowner.

 

if the cache is instead in a commercial establishment AND the purpose of the cache appears to be commercial, i get testy. you can see how it might be difficult to form policy that accomodates this range of acceptability.

 

incidentally, on each occasion where a normally admission charging establishment has hosted an admission-waived cache, i have felt it proper (although not obligatory) to thank them by way of a donation (historical society) or by purchasing lunch (ski area). i WANT private landowners to feel that hosting a cache and waiving admission is a good idea. i want them to welcome us.

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How about a cache that's only open Sundays 10 a.m. to 12 noon, and is located inside the podeum? How about if the canoe livery owner placed a canoe cache just downstream?

The rules are clear. Not for religious purposes. It would be unethical for the livery owner to place the same cache that you could legally place. Duh!

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I think the site has fairly well nailed down what they consider commercial. However spelling that out so that a cache owner is clear on it is another thing. It’s fairly clear that if a fee is charged to get in and that fee goes to a for profit agency it’s commercial (but there are exceptions)

 

There are business locations worthy of a visit for nothing more than their scenic or 'wow' factor. I've heard glowing reports of a virtual cache that takes you to a quickie mart. Commercial? Hard to say, but placed by a geocacher who isn't getting paid.

 

I also think it's possible for a atheist to place a cache inside a building only accessable on Sundays for no more reason than their love of a building that is architecturally significant and because the love and craftsmanship that went into it's construction shows.

 

It’s a lot harder line here. A walmart parking lot light pole is considered non commercial and routinely approved. If that same WalMart was somehow not your cookie cutter store and had something worhty of discussing like going inside to see an oil pumping station in the middle of the store then that might be commercial per what you have said, but is no more commercial than any other walmart micro. The line is fuzzy and Im not sure where it’s at in these types of unique locations.

 

Or maybe I'm clueless about what kind of caches you are talking about.

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...

 

Or maybe I'm clueless about what kind of caches you are talking about.

I think the originator is talking about something like a "Joe's Pizza" cache or one at a army/surplus store like this one .

 

I can see where this game could be easily abused but we aren' yet talking about numbers of people that would make it a popular form of advertising.

 

Personally, I would hate to rush out with my GPSr and swag bag only to find a micro in a "Sidewalk Sale" sign.

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I guess one of the issues here is we have a new approver out our way, and believe me I'm not saying ANYTHING bad about him. But I think he's being a little strict on this commercial content thing. I personally have done lots of caches with commercial content. None of them were about the business itself, that was secondary, but I think it added some great content to the cache page.

 

Now I've seen a local cacher have 3 caches archived because of commercial content. Now I didn't see the original pages, but nothing to me about a gas station, fruit and nut stand that he's not involved with could be that bad. Also he's one of only a couple of cachers who place caches in this one area. So he was told to redo the page. From what I was told it went from a decent page to a one line cache description, so bad I emailed him saying the page was terrible and wouldn't draw anyone too it. That's when I was told about this story.

 

Back to my original post, I just don't think the "guideline" is very clear depending on who's translating it.

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I will of course speak no ill about our local approvers (with whom I've had nothing but the most cordial relations in getting my caches through the pipeline), but there is definitely a fine line and the "commercial" nature of a cache can become highly subjective.

 

Personally, if the cache page says "This cache is near a bar that serves GREAT margaritas" I wouldn't feel compelled to go booze it up after finding the cache. There is a cache at a Bob's Big Boy in Toluca Lake, that is in fact NAMED "Bob's Big Boy Toluca Lake." That could easily be construed as advertising, but again I personally see nothing wrong with it.

 

However, I agree that if there is a cover charge to access the cache it should not be listed under any circumstances.

 

One cache near me is located inside a business, and you have to ask the proprieters to bring you the cache. It's wound up being very highly rated...But then, it's a family restaurant and I know the owners so I would feel much more comfortable than I would if, say, the same cache were inside my local adult gift store. :blink:

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I guess one of the issues here is we have a new approver out our way, and believe me I'm not saying ANYTHING bad about him. But I think he's being a little strict on this commercial content thing.

 

Dave, I think its good that the new approver is being more cautious about these types of caches then more lenient. Its tougher to deal with something after its been approved rather then prior to its release. I'm sure the WestCoastAdmin will get a better feel of the guidelines as time goes on. I understand that some caches still get approved by Hemlock/SoCalAdmin/etc when they fall beyond his expertise.

 

Back to my original post, I just don't think  the "guideline" is very clear depending on who's translating it.

 

I will venture a guess that the guideline has been worded so that is DOES allow for some gray areas. If you lock down all the specifics and eliminate all trace of commercial content, you risk upsetting those listing their caches on GC.com. The same goes for leaving things wide open. There has to be some middle ground, and apparently those that want to push the envelope are usually the ones complaining where their description lies. The "guideline" also states that you can e-mail contact@GC.com if you think a second opinion is in order.

 

From what I was told it went from a decent page to a one line cache description, so bad I emailed him saying the page was terrible and wouldn't draw anyone too it.

 

You and I both know that isn't true. A fancy cache page does add to the hits, but any well placed cache will get its fair share. Plus, I'm sure the page can be spruced up with more then just a one line description...

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A LITTLE OFF TOPIC-

 

My thing is why should I be giving all these hints and tell everything about everything at the location? then why even give cords? why dont you just tell people exactly where its at? This is a "Treasure Hunt" correct? I would just give a Title and cords if I knew people would go to it but everyone wants the discription and to be taken right to the spot. Half the caches I have done I didnt even need cords. Dont mistaken me though you do need them, but if I say" this cache is at 1st street and 2nd st in a tree" whats the point of cords?there is already mapquest on the site do I have to hold your hand too?

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I have been to caches before that were near a local business. They all said something like, "After you find the cache, you might want to stop by Joe's House of Crabs for some good eatin'!" or something like that. I don't find those offensive in any way. They are giving the cache hunter a CHOICE to go to that business or not.

 

I do have a problem with a cache that is hidden in a place that charges admission (except ones in parks, I don't mind coughing up the dough for a park system). But caches that are actually hidden INSIDE a store or are virts inside a museum that charges admission, etc. are not ones I would be interested in...unless the site had a very very very HIGH WOW factor. :blink:

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I have found lots of caches that are hidden in Parking lots of restuarnats and Wally Worlds and so on, I see no problem with these. If the person does not have to pay to look for the cache there should be no problem.

 

It sounds like the caches that were archived had already been approved by another approver, if this is the case, those caches should have not been archived.

 

One thing I have seen happen follows

 

We had a cacher here archive a new cache of his own because it was 90 feet from another cache, the other cache was for members only. He is not a premium member so he did not know it was there, the approver allowed the cache though. Non members do not see these caches when they do searches, maybe this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Edited by JohnnyVegas
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I didn't start this to attack any admin, not by any means. I just wanted to get other cachers input and feelings on this. I have never had any issues with SoCalAdmin, Hemlock or WestCoastAdmin. It seems though now I'm getting chastised on a new cache I just submitted, now be it if it's in humor ok, but if they are making me out to be an a**, then that's not fair for me just having an honest question.. :blink:

 

SoCalAdmin had been swamped with work, so WestCoastAdmin has picked up the slack, caches have been getting approved as quick as ever, any issues are dealt with coordially. We had a real issue with a cache last week and he even called me at home and we worked out the issue, and he was willing to give in to me, but I made the change.

 

I guess I was a little upset about GeoFD's caching getting disapproved, when there are other caches much more blatantly commercial.

 

All's good in love and war! :blink:

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I was just as dissapointed as you were Dave, but I changed them to fit the needs of the approver, I am just going to keep it plain from now on so there is no "fine line" I am walking on. You have made a valid point in your thread and I dont think anyone looks at you as an a@# so dont loose any sleep. If people dont like my cache page or discription or whatever it may be, dont find my caches I dont know whatelse to say. I like to get all caches good or bad, lightpole or a 2 mile hike, I like them all. Oh ya Dave be safe at the BIG 16 HOUSE I know how things are out in that neck of the woods. :blink:

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Oh ya Dave be safe at the BIG 16 HOUSE I know how things are out in that neck of the woods. :blink:

LOL yeah last week we had a classic 16 shift. No sleep til 4:30am the first night, the last night 5 hours sleep in 2 parts. Averaging 8-10 calls a day. 3 vegetation fires, a arson vehicle fire and a train fire. And as we're working the train fire we see another fire in our area, 2 buildings and several vehicles going strong! Then add in the normal medical aids, the 2-12/hr job to remove a 600lb man from his house (required 3 engines and 2 medic untis). Ok I need a drink! LOL :blink:

Edited by Firehouse16
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Oh ya Dave be safe at the BIG 16 HOUSE I know how things are out in that neck of the woods. :blink:

LOL yeah last week we had a classic 16 shift. No sleep til 4:30am the first night, the last night 5 hours sleep in 2 parts. Averaging 8-10 calls a day. 3 vegetation fires, a arson vehicle fire and a train fire. And as we're working the train fire we see another fire in our area, 2 buildings and several vehicles going strong! Then add in the normal medical aids, the 2-12/hr job to remove a 600lb man from his house (required 3 engines and 2 medic untis). Ok I need a drink! LOL :blink:

It's days like those that make me glad I got out of firefighting and into a safe desk job dealing with dead animals all day. :D

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Oh ya Dave be safe at the BIG 16 HOUSE I know how things are out in that neck of the woods. :blink:

LOL yeah last week we had a classic 16 shift. No sleep til 4:30am the first night, the last night 5 hours sleep in 2 parts. Averaging 8-10 calls a day. 3 vegetation fires, a arson vehicle fire and a train fire. And as we're working the train fire we see another fire in our area, 2 buildings and several vehicles going strong! Then add in the normal medical aids, the 2-12/hr job to remove a 600lb man from his house (required 3 engines and 2 medic untis). Ok I need a drink! LOL :blink:

It's days like those that make me glad I got out of firefighting and into a safe desk job dealing with dead animals all day. :D

SOunds like a high school earth science class to me... I am now certifiably insane.

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I just thought I'd post to make GeoFD drool a bit. Yesterday, last day of our shift, 15 runs, 2 working fires including a well involved attic on a 2 story 3000+ sq. ft. house. One auto vs. ped, auto = 1, ped = 0. I haven't slept since yesterday at 5:30am (37hrs ago). This shift rocked compared to last week, which we thought was stellar :anitongue::P

Edited by Firehouse16
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